Cygnus posted that yesterday, but that's fine. It cost taken over by the Main vs. Vine discussion at the Kroger discussion

Re: OTR Stillhouse, looks awesome all around!  We love Pet Wants and I wish them success in this new business venture.  Great compliment to Rhinegeist in that part of the neighborhood.  Good positive mention of the streetcar and Central Parkway bike lanes being good for business in an Enquirer article. I'll keep them in mind as a possible wedding reception venue if they are open as planned next year.

Cygnus posted that yesterday, but that's fine. It cost taken over by the Main vs. Vine discussion at the Kroger discussion

 

My bad. I blame the faulty UO search tool. Nothing popped up. ;-) Feel free to delete.

There is also a distillery planned for the Moerlein Ice House (now known as the Apex Building when it turned into a furniture manufacturer). It will be called Stadt (which means City in German). Scheduled to open this year. Originally I think they were shooting for 2016, but permitting didn't take nearly as long as they thought it would.

 

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Their logo shows buildings that look like the Apex Building and wheat if you turn it upside down.

Interesting to see how OTR North is developing without the help of big developers like 3CDC.

 

Kind of makes me think that buildout in OTR will happen in  15-20 years rather than my original 30+ years

15 years seems pretty accurate if things keep up the way they are. Things have really accelerated for smaller individual buildings lately and there area a lot more players in the game than there once was. Urban Sites, Model Group, Northpointe, Towne Properties, etc. plus a ton of small time people like Bair Properties (I like their work a lot) are doing work without 3CDC which is dramatically increasing the rate at which streets are being redeveloped. The price points OTR can sustain these days makes many buildings financially plausible that weren't a handful of years ago. Which is a huge deal for accelerating the saving of every historic building we have left.

I think a lot of times American cities try to overlay a suburban lifestyle on an urban neighborhood. We do this because the vast majority of this country lives a suburban lifestyle. Part of the charm and integrity of Over-the-Rhine is that it's one of the few truly urban areas in the country. "Urban" has many connotations, so let me explain my definition.

 

This isn't a distinction between white or black, poor or rich, young or old... It's a distinction between living socially in the streets versus living independently in our homes.  You don't barbecue in your backyard and invite over specific people, you barbecue on the sidewalk and invite over anyone who walks by. You don't go to the grocery store once per week and stockpile food in your car, you go to the grocery store every day and buy only what you need.  Most of our grandparents lived urban lifestyles until there was a sea change in public opinion driven by many issues in urban America. Over-the-Rhine held onto its urban culture through massive demographic shifts. Today we're experiencing another shift, but it's still the same old urban neighborhood it's always been. In urban areas you're almost always guaranteed to run into people you don't understand at all. It's a fact of life that people who live in urban areas deal with every day.

 

Yeah, that's honestly what I understand excites me about OTR honestly.

 

Don't get me wrong OTR has some really nice architecture, but many of the buildings you find in OTR are buildings you can generally find anywhere in America (especially the midwest). The collection of buildings is impressive though, even though a good chunk of OTR has been demolished, the sheer square miles of OTR is just so large, that the collection is still just so huge. And for the most every street has at least some type of historic fabric.

 

That said, the architecture is cool I guess. But it doesn't really excite you or take your breath away like say  the architecture of Victorian London, or Prague. At least not for me.

 

What really excites me about OTR is the street layout. How everything is so well connected, and how if I was a resident, I could get my groceries, do clothes shopping, and have dinner without ever having to use a car. That's what I love about OTR so much, it's as if you took a slice of a big urban city like Brooklyn and transplanted in Cincinnati.

 

 

People here for some reason seem to have an aversion to comparisons to other cities but it really is very similarly architecturally (without going into the regional nuances of the vernacular) and functionally to some of the older neighborhoods in Pittsburgh and St. Louis. It also shares a scale (building wise, not land area wise) and many qualitative aspects to the parts of Brooklyn that aren't dominated by row buildings. And that's a good thing. Those areas of Brooklyn are insanely livable (minus the whole "arm and a leg" rents issue) and comfortable at a pedestrian scale. And it's because they all developed in a similar time period when American urban life was more similar city to city than it is today due to decades of varying levels of urban decline across the US followed by very different periods of prosperity in recent years.

 

Using other similar neighborhoods as an example of what does and does not work will be an intelligent method moving forward even though so many people seem to have a problem with those comparisons.

I was excited to see that the owner of the 1132 [crack] Bar at 1132 Race has received a fine of $750 for not maintaining his adjacent property 1130 Race.  I'm hoping that he'll come to the realization that he cannot repair the decades of neglect of his properties on his own and sells out to someone who actually gives a damn about the community.

There are very few cases where I want existing businesses and building owners to leave OTR, but this is an exception. That bar was a problem (is it officially closed?) and that building is in a terrible state and is a huge building that could be super beneficial to that corner. But instead it's falling apart and the owner gets further and further away from being able to do something about it.

Huh. You would think 3CDC would be drooling to acquire this property. Right by the street car line, and if you redevelop that entire building that's easily 1,000,000 dollar condos 5 years from now.

 

Surprised someone hasn't written a blank check to the owner for whatever amount and just buy the property off the guy

The 1132 [crack] Bar is at least temporarily closed, but the owner's son may be in the works to reopen it (maybe as something else?).  I just don't believe the corner of 12th and Race will ever fully recover from the decades of crime that's plagued it until this irresponsible owner sells out.

I wonder if Cincy PD would object to their liquor license because of all the issues.

That bar was such a problematic spot.

 

Hell, I don't know why the owner doesn't partner with a developer. That building could easily house 6 large condos in it. 6 two bedroom condos could easily sell for a combined 2-2.5 million dollars. The owner could retain ownership of his storefronts and the rest of the building could be fixed up so it's actually legally occupiable. Both parties could make money and the area would be better for it.

They closed the bar after there were seven or so undercover drug buys in the span of like 5 days. The owner's son is a doctor and supposedly has interest in fixing the property. The floor plate is very narrow as far as the upstairs units are concerned.

1) I think the owner has a pretty negative perception of 3CDC so working on a development to make expensive apartments/condos seems against his wishes.

 

2) The police have an annual party at 1132. It is owned by a former cop. Paid archive article here (you can see a few pictures and a couple paragraphs).

The building is essentially the same size and proportions as the buildings on the northwest and southwest corners of 12th and Vine and The Lackman. Shouldn't be an issue for space planning.

The owner of the 1132 [crack] Bar is not a former police officer.  The FOP event that occurs at that bar is actually something that most officers (especially the higher up ones) are actually quite embarrassed about.

^They seemed to be having a pretty good time in the photos.

Feel free to talk with the police officers around the community what they think of the 1132 [crack] Bar.  Better yet, mention to them that the police must support the bar due to the annual event that is being held there.  You'll get some very frustrated and sometimes even angry responses.  Trust me, myself and others brought up this event with the police quite a lot.  The police (minus a small group) are not happy at all with that bar.

Well he's probably making a lot more money selling drugs than he could by selling the place.  And he's able to do the dealing since the police protect it since they're probably getting a cut of the action.  That's how much of Over-the-Rhine was before the 2006 Sheriff's Patrols, as well as the notorious Phoenix Café across from the Aronoff Center. 

Is anyone else hoping that the delay on the 15th and race is due to a potential redesign of phase 1? Originally phase 1 buildings were supposed to he 4 stories but rumor has it they were scaled down to not being rewarded the tax credit..... But since the past month 3cdc won tax credit funding could there be a potential redesign. At least I would hope so. 3 stories just doesn't cut it, especially when the buildings to the right tower over these proposed buildings

The buildings were scaled down because of community input. The idea of another parking garage was met with criticism and as such they misunderstood WHY input was negative and instead removed the garage and along with it a log of the density of units. That's when they came up with the three story proposal for phase 1 which is definitely moving forward. It has gone through the historic board reviews and the plan is for construction to begin at the end of summer/early fall.

 

 

Does anyone know if any of the big player developers own the lot where the Cricket Wireless store (on elm)?

 

From what I understand that store has closed down, and I imagine since it's on the street car line that it would be highly valuable land in the near future.

At the moment he's charging for monthly parking in the parking lot. From what I've heard from people who have talked to him he's holding out until the streetcar is open to sell off the land. That's a pretty massive site and will definitely be worth quite a bit once the streetcar is running.

Hopefully someone will propose a large apartment or condo complex for that site, not 8 townhomes...

That site could easily house a 5 story building with dozens of apartments. Hopefully that's what we end up getting.

Question..if say 10 years down the line 3cdc sees there still is more demand for otr living but not enough units, could they theoretically build more stories on existing structures like say the 15th and race structure?

Not without incredibly invasive construction. What would actually happen over time is demand for units and a lack of space to put them will result in development spreading out. The West End, the hillsides north of OTR, etc. have tons of additional room and by expanding into those the built fabric of the basin will stitch together over time.

Someday if OTR is fully built out, we could just add a streetcar spur out to the West End and it would make that neighborhood a very attractive place to live. We have no shortage of developable land in the basin area. With that being said, hopefully we add as much density as possible within the CBD and OTR, and add the townhomes in places like the West End, Corryville, and Northside. Redeveloping vacant blocks of OTR into a few single-family townhomes is a waste of space in the urban core.

Why are the towne homes being built in such low quantities. Why is there fear of adding extremem amount of density? Is there just fear that the growth of otr is nothing but a short term thing? Or is 3cdc sort of on a shoe string budget

None of those are the reason. 3CDC isn't the one building the townhomes, it's other developers like Hueber Homes, Towne Properties, etc. No fear of density, only business decisions. It's quicker, cheaper, and easier to build townhomes and still net a hefty profit. These are still businesses and they're going to make decisions about what to build that positively affects their business.

Which can potentially screw these developers later on if they're is still high demand for people to live in otr but not enough units

Random thoughts, but I looked on Google Maps through all of the streets of OTR (was bored I guess).

 

Got to say Main, Republic, and Vine are by far the best preserved streets in terms of historic stock. In all actuality each street has pretty good amount of stock left, except for Pleasant street. That street was just destroyed, I'd say there's no more than 30% of it's original stock.

 

But overall I'd say each street (aside from pleasant) has good stretches of fabrics. Of course almost each street has empty lots, but for the most part it really varies. Some have more, some have less, but for the most part we haven't gotten to a point where you "forget" where you are. There's still a good amount of meat on each street so to speak to get a sense of how OTR was like in the early 1900's.

 

Which is good. Fingers crossed no more demolitions will take place, and the new construction that's occurring can nicely blend and complement existing structures that remain.

 

Also got to say, I love that OTR doesn't have all of it's buildings....don't get me wrong, I wish I could see how it was in all of it's glory. But I can't. But having these new architecture that looks extremely 21'st century like the Mercer buildings on vine, and have on the opposite side these old historic structures makes you feel like you've entered this weird time drift. Where the past meets the future. I don't know, to me it's really cool to see that vertical slice of what life and architecture was like on one side of the street, and on the other show how we have progressed in the 100+ years or so. Just really cool IMO. 

 

That's why I prefer for all the new architecture to embrace modernism and look 21st century. Because sometimes I get really confused in OTR as to what building is historic, and which is faux historic. Having 2 distinct types of architecture, being a blend of historic and modernism will only add to the fabric of OTR rather than detract from it IMO.

Just saw this through OTR matters:

 

http://otrmatters.com/pendleton-street-townhomes/

 

Looks like there is going to be some new construction along with a renovation of an old townhome.  I know some architects will probably disagree with me, but this is way above average infill for the area, and they look pretty nice, keeping in mind that the first photo is of the backs which don't look as nice.

 

From the end of June:

 

 

Should be a very nice view:

 

 

More infill in Prospect Hill:

 

I'm quite fond of those two new buildings in Prospect Hill. Each is a two-unit building and will be rentals. Michael Mcinturf is designing and does good work. They have a similar scale and massing to their neighbors but the dark grey brick and the detailing are far more modern. Something we should strive for in infill. Respectful, but not mimicking. They're cool buildings. The slight angle of parts of the footprint add interest and those roof decks are going to have amazing views of the city. I'm curious how the insides will be finished.

I agree. Fantastic infill. Massing is the most important component to infill IMO. The detailing on infill should always be as contemporary as possible. These two buildings are a huge success. (I personally would have varied the brick color between the two, but I'm not complaining.)

I would have personally made one a really light grey (almost white) but as it stands I really like the brick they chose.

 

The decks that are being built in the rear are going to be amazing spaces. The site plan makes use of the hillside nicely and creates great public spaces and great secluded, private spaces for residents. Really well thought out infill.

 

Then you get to OTR and you have the things Towne Properties proposed for that prime site on Elm Street...

Overall I like the infill.

 

I don't like that they are angled differently from the rest of the buildings.

 

I also don't like that triangular patch of brick in the front above the top floor. It looks like someone who is balding and showing a lot of forehead, but uses a comb-over in an attempt to hide it.

They aren't actually angled differently than the neighboring buildings, the floor plates are 5 sided. If you took a rectangle that was aligned with the street grid then split one side and had it bulge slightly that's how they're shaped.

 

http://www.mcinturf.info/#/prspctgrn/

 

You can see it there more easily than in the photo.

 

I have no problems with that angled roof in the front. When you look at Prospect Hill from Liberty you get all types of rooflines, triangles being super common. The neighboring building actually has a similar massing when it comes to the street facing roof line. I think it works well with the fabric of the hill.

I'm quite fond of those two new buildings in Prospect Hill. Each is a two-unit building and will be rentals. Michael Mcinturf is designing and does good work. They have a similar scale and massing to their neighbors but the dark grey brick and the detailing are far more modern. Something we should strive for in infill. Respectful, but not mimicking. They're cool buildings. The slight angle of parts of the footprint add interest and those roof decks are going to have amazing views of the city. I'm curious how the insides will be finished.

 

These buildings are much more like the Infill I see in Chicago on a regular basis.  I think given the constraints we are given in modern architecture this is pretty much the best its going to get - it compliments the old without being the same as the old :)

This firm can just go ahead and do the rest of OTR as far as I'm concerned.

We have a ton of talent in this city architecturally but the problem is much of it is found in small firms that can't take on a ton of projects or large projects so they are awarded to laughably bad firms like CR and then you wind up with The Banks, U Square, etc.

 

Or 3CDC has to outsource to another city and hires someone like City Architecture in Cleveland who also do pretty mediocre work but at least better than CR.

 

Thankfully it seems like the type of people who hire architects for their projects opposed to developers/builders are starting to make their way to OTR and surrounding areas and are not willing to settle on something like a Hueber Homes property. Not that they're necessarily bad, just boring and lacking interest.

http://www.foldformdesign.com/boal-street/

 

This firm is doing a handful of rehabs on Mulberry that are across the street from one another. They were in either the most recent or two months ago historic board hearing. Each is getting a modern addition off the side/rear while keeping the historic streetfront and most of the existing structure intact. They do great work including this unbuilt townhome on Boal. Based on their plans for the Mulberry Street rehabs I'd love to see more of their work in OTR as well.

 

One thing I've noticed in recent months while reviewing the HCB packets is a significant increase in single lot new construction. Holes in the urban fabric that are just one lot that in the past were just used as remnant space are getting filled by new construction stitching areas back together. That's a very important aspect to the long-term success of OTR and exciting to see.

Looking forward to whatever happens with this:

 

 

Reminds me of this cafe I visited in Nashville:

 

I have mixed feelings about that spot. On one hand I want something large on that site that fills out to the curb but on the other I think a space with a great outdoor area where the parking lot is now could be really fun.

 

Hopefully that's the plan for the outdoor area and not on site parking.

^ correct, the plan is to make almost all of that area a giant patio.

That will be cool. That plus Greiwe (I think it was him) redoing the huge building across 12th from this and the Transept will bring a lot of life to a pretty dead block.

Grandin is doing the property across the street into offices. The Ophthalmic Hospital was going for tax credits for a boutique hotel but they didn't get any. But yes, this block is poised for action.

 

Hopefully the former Queen City Radio site will be able to obtain a parking variance from the city so they can use much of the outdoor space for a biergarten.