I've been hearing from people who work in various restaurants on Vine that a steakhouse is what's coming to the lagering tunnel for awhile. Sounds like maybe it's getting closer to being official/ready for announcement.

 

That would be a great space to dine in. Too bad I'm not a steak guy and fancy steakhouses are places I avoid at all costs. Nothing fun about them and the price is far from worth it.

 

I've taken my girlfriend on a number of fancy dinner dates over the years. I have to say - the best steaks I've had in Cincinnati weren't at any steakhouses. Jeff Ruby's and Precinct were okay. Best steak I ever had though was at the Palace. Second best was Metropole.

I think that's why I don't like steakhouses. They just aren't worth the price bump in comparison to places that honestly serve steaks that are just as good or better. I'm also just not a huge fan of big slabs of red meat but still.

 

That being said, I would make that "sacrifice" to eat in this space. It's going to be extremely cool whatever it ends up being.

Some photos from the newly expanded Grant Park and the reconfigured intersection at Walnut/McMicken, including the new ArtWorks mural on Moerlein:

 

 

 

 

Donate to the campaign!!! Keep Cincinnati Beautiful is raising a few thousand dollars to plant trees and landscape the new portion of the park. 

 

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/help-kcb-green-grant-park#/story

It's expected to be a steakhouse from the Kaze/Embers/Mercer crew.  3CDC has found a successful model in having single owners put multiple stores in the same area.  They get consistency of quality, the restaurants benefit from shared deliveries, etc.  Dan Wright, Kaze group, and Thunderdome would each have 3 restaurants on Vine St.  There are certainly pro's and con's from an urban planning perspective, but it seems to be working very well for now.  The biggest downside is if one of them goes under 5 years from now for personal financial reasons, you could lose three restaurants instead of just 1.

 

I don't know anything about the sub basement places, other than one will have an entrance off of Republic St, which is great.

 

Interesting that 3CDC has been opposed to chains coming into OTR yet has promoted several local restauranteurs to start chains.

 

Dan Wright, Kaze group, and Thunderdome would each have 3 restaurants on Vine St.

 

Not to mention A Tavola which has another location and will soon have another sister restaurant; Quan Hapa which is owned by the same people as Pho Lang Thang; and 1215 which is owned by Tazza Mia.

 

I would love it if the Thunderdome people would put a Currito somewhere in OTR. I find myself going Uptown for lunch way too often, either to grab Currito or Panera or something along those lines.

 

Does anyone know what happened to the Indian restaurant proposed for OTR? I think it was from the owner and/or chef of the former Cumin in Hyde Park.

 

I haven't heard anything about Hen of the Woods in over a year.

Interesting that 3CDC has been opposed to chains coming into OTR yet has promoted several local restauranteurs to start chains.

 

Dan Wright, Kaze group, and Thunderdome would each have 3 restaurants on Vine St.

 

Not to mention A Tavola which has another location and will soon have another sister restaurant; Quan Hapa which is owned by the same people as Pho Lang Thang; and 1215 which is owned by Tazza Mia.

 

I would love it if the Thunderdome people would put a Currito somewhere in OTR. I find myself going Uptown for lunch way too often, either to grab Currito or Panera or something along those lines.

 

Does anyone know what happened to the Indian restaurant proposed for OTR? I think it was from the owner and/or chef of the former Cumin in Hyde Park.

 

I haven't heard anything about Hen of the Woods in over a year.

 

Hen of the Woods had a article written about them last month in the Business Courier. They still plan to open, "soon", take that however you like.

 

From what I understand, the owners are getting the final funding in place, and are currently promoting there in house products that they will be selling in the grocery store portion of Hen of the Woods around local Cincinnati shops and markets. You can find them on Facebook, they do a lot of promoting on there.

 

I was curious about the Indian Restaurant as well. My guess is that it's probably dead. That said, an Indian eatery would fit right in with OTR blend of current restaurants, so hopefully somethings in the cards from someone.

 

OTR definitely needs more cheaper casual lunch cafe type of sit down places, ala Panera Bread.

 

 

I've also realized I'm okay with some chains entering OTR. I used to be opposed to it, but I also realize that people need there Starbucks, and there H & M's. Especially if OTR is ever to become a major travel destination, tourists like what they are familiar with, and currently almost everything in OTR is local.

 

 

Wow that park needs a face lift so badly.  Let's hope 3CDC can push their renovations up that way to help out the surrounding buildings.  That poor park has fallen victim to ghettofication for years.

Now there's a word I would be happy with a moderator banning.

Seriously cringe-worthy. A more appropriate and accurate thing to say is that it has fallen victim to neglect, disrepair, and disinvestment for years. If by ghettofication, you meant the the park was becoming "a part of a city, especially a slum area, occupied by a minority group or groups," I would say that while you are using the word correctly, you are quite wrong in that OTR and that area has been diversifying and becoming less occupied solely by minorities in recent years, especially following the addition of the community garden in that park and the small improvements done be active community members cleaning up the park. But if you were using it as code for 'becoming black and rundown,' I, and I'm sure others on here, find that ridiculously offensive

The park actually looks pretty nice now. That area covered in straw is brand new. It used to be a street. All of the playground equipment was replaced with brand new, engaging features. And a mural was put in. I think it's overall a nice park. It needs a little more lighting at night.

The new street configuration is good, but they need to do something about the stoplight configuration. Probably best to just remove the stoplight and put stop signs up for Lang and Moore streets at Walnut.

 

I also have been wondering why there's a stoplight at McMicken & Elm.  Seems like a waste to me.  The only reason I can imagine is that traffic from Elm might not have the best visibility due to the sharp angle of the intersection.  But it seems like a 3-way stop would be more efficient there.

My former house up the hill on Flora was still home to my best friend until a month or so ago so I'd take Elm to McMicken to Ravine all the time. I always wondered that as well until I drove my friend's car which has a much longer hood than my Fiat does at night when it changes to a flashing red light. Seeing what's coming from the east can be difficult when stopped at that light without creeping into the intersection. Normally not an issue but I can definitely see how something could happen because of a lack of visibility. But it could be a shorter light to not matter as much.

 

Speaking of lights that need to be shorter. The light at Findlay and Race is exceptionally long, especially when it's 2 in the morning and you're waiting for green lights that are for nobody.

 

And don't even get me started on how short the light at Vine,McMicken, and Findlay is.

The next big OTR development isn't condos and isn't a 3CDC project

Mar 2, 2015, 4:58pm EST Updated: Mar 2, 2015, 5:37pm EST

Chris Wetterich Staff reporter and columnist- Cincinnati Business Courier

 

 

The founders of Funky's Catering and branding and marketing firm AGAR are teaming up to bring a large events center called The Transept focused on weddings, corporate retreats and galas to a former Over-the-Rhine church.

 

 

Josh Heuser of AGAR and Michael Forgus of Funky's Catering hope the $4.7 million renovation of the 13,170 square foot former Bethlehem Temple Apostolic Church at 1205 Elm St. will be complete by Labor Day. The church is across the street from Washington Park and sits along the streetcar line. Forgus and Heuser are bankrolling the project through $1.2 million in historic tax credits, along with financing from Bank of America Merrill Lynch. The Hamilton County Development Company's business lending section put in $1.6 million. Twenty-six jobs are expected to be developed.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2015/03/02/exclusive-the-next-big-otr-development-isnt.html

 

This photo is already outdated as they have now taken down the scaffolding:

 

 

Looks really nice with that fresh red paint.

Excitement is building!

 

Central Parkway YMCA by Travis Estell, on Flickr

Makes me curious how they were about to set a deadline and achieve within there time frame (restoring a whole historic church is no easy, nor quick task), yet there are much smaller rehabilitation projects in OTR that take sooooo much more time. Is it just that this firm working on the Transept is more motivated to get things done in a timely fashion?

There's housing units going in the upper levels right?

Wow that's red.

15th and Plesant:

 

 

Makes me curious how they were about to set a deadline and achieve within there time frame (restoring a whole historic church is no easy, nor quick task), yet there are much smaller rehabilitation projects in OTR that take sooooo much more time. Is it just that this firm working on the Transept is more motivated to get things done in a timely fashion?

 

The answer is money. And size is not necessarily directly proportional to the complexity of a project.

 

Some smaller projects have much smaller crews in relation to how much work is needed so they take longer. If you throw enough money and labor at something it can always happen faster but that's not always advantageous.

 

The red looks fantastic in person. It's a stunning color and really adds some visual excitement to that block which is already one of my favorites in OTR.

Yeah, that red looks great.

Does anyone here with any expertise have an opinion regarding the painting of these brick buildings?  A lot of people who post on other forums from the east coast are adamantly opposed to the painting of brick row houses because they're historically inaccurate and because the painting is often done with types of paint that slowly harm the brick and mortar.  Personally I love that people can and do paint their buildings any color they want in Cincinnati. 

The National Park Service has a pretty simple opinion - the following are both not recommended:

 

"Applying paint or other coatings such as stucco to masonry that has been historically unpainted or uncoated to create a new appearance.

 

Removing paint from historically painted masonry."

 

Sometimes its hard to tell, except maybe to an expert, but a lot of OTR buildings were painted originally. But some were not. For example I'm guessing that the YMCA building above (undergoing restoration) has never been painted, and from the uniformity and detail of the brick, it should never be. But it's quite possible that both of those buildings at 15th and Pleasant were painted originally.

Not sure if it's historically accurate, but it's sexy and gives OTR a unique image, that's similar to spain.

The YMCA building is crazy inside. I got to tour it while under construction a week ago and while it is only 9 "stories" tall it has 23 different floor levels inside from years of additions and refurbs. It's a really complicated project that will have a really nice workout space when done. And yes all the upper floors over the 3rd story brick band are senior housing being done by Model, the YMCA portion is by 3CDC.

Re: pic of 15th and Pleasant building above: are they going to extend the cornice of the corner building down the Pleasant Street side? I think it looks kind of awkward as is. It rounds the corner then stops and then starts again at the next building.

Here's what the historic guidelines say about painting buildings in OTR:

 

"Painting: Repaint buildings that were historically painted. Most buildings built before 1890

in Over-the-Rhine were originally painted. Paint is part of the aesthetic design of these

buildings and should be maintained. Paint also protects porous nineteenth century masonry

and masks alterations and inappropriate repairs. Masonry that has not been painted in the past

should not be painted. Because color can have a significant impact on the neighborhood, use

paint colors that are appropriate to your building's age and style. Historically, most paint

schemes were relatively simple. The Historic Conservation Office can provide owners with

color combinations that are appropriate for a building’s age and style. Varying the choice of

color between neighboring buildings is preferred."

Re: pic of 15th and Pleasant building above: are they going to extend the cornice of the corner building down the Pleasant Street side? I think it looks kind of awkward as is. It rounds the corner then stops and then starts again at the next building.

 

I am guessing that is how it was originally.  Very rare to have a continuous cornice that would go down the side of the building.  Most of that decoration was limited to the front of it. 

I may have uttered this next sentence in another thread somewhere, but... It's incredible that nearly every large building on the west side of Elm between Central Parkway & 14th (3 blocks) is being renovated now or will soon be renovated. YMCA, future Cincinnati Shakespeare Company at former Drop Inn Center, the Transept, Memorial Hall, and Music Hall.

^not sure. But one problem is that the new cornice is just bad, in my opinion. Note they added the return between the time they first installed it, to now, possibly in response to HCB comments (I do not know that, however). If they had installed some brackets along the front and the return portion, it would look better.

 

But, I think that roof has a hip rafter and slopes toward the front and the east (the side in the picture). I think they installed a seamless gutter all along the east roofline to catch that rainwater. That would have had to be a box gutter in the original configuration, which would have meant a cornice of some kind was there. It certainly could have been, and probably was, simpler than the front cornice.

 

This is the auditors photo of that building circa 2000. Seems to show a more significant front cornice and possibly a continuous east cornice as well. Too bad this was lost sometime in the intervening years.

Yeah they did an awful job with the new cornice. The lack of brackets is terrible and honestly confusing. How much could that have possibly added to the cost of this renovation? Divided between the 11 units and nobody would even notice. It's a shame someone approved that.

What is the status of that large warehouse/factory that is directly west of the drop inn center on 12th?

 

 

Just came across this photo of Central Parkway which was apparently from circa 1938:

 

 

Let's bring back that island in the middle of the intersection of Central Parkway and Ezzard Charles. Force cars to slow down when going through there!

What a great image. I live on Race between 14th and 15th and I've always wondered what the building that once occupied the one gap on the east side of that block looked like. It's always interesting to me to see old images of buildings I live in. I wish there was an easy way to know who occupied the space I own in the past and what their lives were like.

You can look up birth and death certificates from 1865-1912 here. It doesn't tell you everyone who lived there, but it's everyone who died and was born there. Keep in mind that street numbers/names changed over time. The search works pretty well, but there are always issues with difficult handwriting and stuff.

http://virtuallibrary.cincinnatilibrary.org/virtuallibrary/vl_citydir.aspx

 

The city directories are another good choice - they list names and occupations. Unfortunately, they are only sorted by last name like a phone book, so you usually have to run a text search for the street name and then look through addresses (the way the OCR text recognition works makes it tough to search for "123 Elm" as the spaces usually don't transcribe correctly). It can take awhile but I did it for my house and found out it was originally occupied by a husband and wife tailor/seamstress team. The three daughters eventually became seamstresses as well.

It's like a blessing and a curse.

 

On one hand, if Cincinnati became the current day Chicago, and became the main central train hub, and experienced that population growth and boom than I doubt much of Over the Rhine would still be there. I truly think almost all of it would be have been demolished by now for the way of skyscrapers, and other uses.

 

The preservation that's still there, is just a testament for how much lack of growth Cincinnati has experienced over the decades, because you'd be hard pressed to find any historic district in America the size and density of OTR in other major metropolises around America. Chicago, NYC, San Francisco, Boston, Philly, they are all such historic cities, that were founded way earlier than Cincinnati (in most cases), yet there historic districts are so much smaller, and only surround a few blocks.

 

 

So it's a blessing and a curse. You achieve something unique in OTR. But at the same time, you can't help but think that the progressive fore fathers that help build Over the Rhine would be rolling in there grave right now. I don't think any of them meant for Over the Rhine to be some Venice, or Rome, that we tend to treat it's Architecture on urban ohio forum, and would have probably preferred seeing 50 story skyscrapers and such and much more development, than a livable museum that it is today.

 

But at the same time, you can't help but think that the progressive fore fathers that help build Over the Rhine would be rolling in there grave right now. I don't think any of them meant for Over the Rhine to be some Venice, or Rome, that we tend to treat it's Architecture on urban ohio forum, and would have probably preferred seeing 50 story skyscrapers and such and much more development, than a livable museum that it is today.

 

"I just built a really solid building that COULD stand for hundreds of years, but I hope someone knocks it down in a few decades to build something else." - No one ever

But at the same time, you can't help but think that the progressive fore fathers that help build Over the Rhine would be rolling in there grave right now. I don't think any of them meant for Over the Rhine to be some Venice, or Rome, that we tend to treat it's Architecture on urban ohio forum, and would have probably preferred seeing 50 story skyscrapers and such and much more development, than a livable museum that it is today.

 

"I just built a really solid building that COULD stand for hundreds of years, but I hope someone knocks it down in a few decades to build something else." - No one ever

 

We tend to give to much credit with the buildings in Over the Rhine. There are some damn fine buildings in OTR, that you can clearly see the love and passion in the architects head (especially those on Vine).

 

My favorite building on Walnut;

 

 

But the rest? The stock houses? Yeah, they were sturdy buildings, but it was nothing more than a reflection of the economical times. Those materials that allowed these buildings to last as long as they do were cheap to build.

 

Again I love OTR as much as the next guy but sometimes this board has a circle jerk when it comes to every building in OTR.

 

I feel we have to remind ourselves we are not dealing with grandiose  European architecture like this:

 

 

We are mostly dealing with generic Italianate stock houses that you can find practically anywhere in America/Canada/Europe, and that were built with cheap labor materials

 

 

 

Again not trying to devalue the neighborhood as a whole. I appreciate every building as a whole, but I sometimes feel that "history" has blindsided us more than anything when it comes to OTR (lets not forget there are trees that are hundreds of years older than buildings in OTR, but we don't place the same value on those trees do we?). Yes the buildings are sturdy. Yes, in some cases as seen above, are beautiful gorgeous buildings that were designed with passion and love.

 

But the rest? They were simply a home. They same way how my house in Montgomery is just a home. Yes, the times are different. Yes, it'll probably be blown away to bits in a tornado, yes my neighbors house looks almost purely identical. But at the end of the day, that's what it is. A home, that houses people. It's not the Sagrada Familia. But that's my point, the stock houses that housed families in OTR were never meant to be architectural wonders. And I highly doubt the original builders intended these buildings to last 200 years in the future.

 

But that's just my thoughts.

Just came across this photo of Central Parkway which was apparently from circa 1938:

 

 

Let's bring back that island in the middle of the intersection of Central Parkway and Ezzard Charles. Force cars to slow down when going through there!

 

What is in the <a href="http://www.spmhcincinnati.org/Music-Hall-Today/Three-Buildings-in-One.php">"north exposition building"</a> of Music Hall today? I know the South Exhibition Building is used as the ballroom today. And I've heard that in the past, there was space for basketball and boxing. But I've never - to my knowledge - seen pictures of the inside of the North building. In the renovation plans, is there any intention of making that North building space usable to the public?

We are mostly dealing with generic Italianate stock houses that you can find practically anywhere in America/Canada/Europe

 

This statement is overly broad. Yes, there are many older communities that contain Italianate buildings. Of course, there are plenty that do not.

 

However, what is unique about Over-the-Rhine is the density and concentration of these Italianate buildings that make it an incredible landmark on the same level of the palace you posted above.

 

We care about the individual buildings in Over-the-Rhine for the same reason you might care about every flying buttress of Notre Dame. Each piece is important. Everything does not have to be a Music Hall or Germania Building to be significant.

 

We are mostly dealing with generic Italianate stock houses that you can find practically anywhere in America/Canada/Europe

 

This statement is overly broad. Yes, there are many older communities that contain Italianate buildings. Of course, there are plenty that do not.

 

However, what is unique about Over-the-Rhine is the density and concentration of these Italianate buildings that make it an incredible landmark on the same level of the palace you posted above.

 

We care about the individual buildings in Over-the-Rhine for the same reason you might care about every flying buttress of Notre Dame. Each piece is important. Everything does not have to be a Music Hall or Germania Building to be significant.

 

 

This is EXACTLY why some of us cringe when yet another old building comes down.  Context.  Its all about the feeling of these buildings collectively.  When old buildings get isolated, they become even more likely targets for demolition.

What a yummy pic.  Nice find.  What I notice:

 

1. Obviously the density of OTR.

2. Northern 1/5 of WashPa with buildings!

 

 

^^^Or, to the point, imagine Paris knocking down half of its buildings. 

 

It magically becomes Cologne.  Not Paris.

There were three possible locations for a union station -- the riverfront (where FWW is now), Central Parkway (underground), or where it ended up being built.  If the Central Parkway location had happened, the city's "downtown" would have jumped north several blocks and would today still be centered around Central Parkway.  This means that Fountain Square and everything south would have tended to remain in a better state of preservation.  Much of what was replaced by skyscrapers would still be there. 

Chicago, NYC, San Francisco, Boston, Philly, they are all such historic cities, that were founded way earlier than Cincinnati (in most cases), yet there historic districts are so much smaller, and only surround a few blocks.

 

Chicago and San Fran are both newer than Cincinnati - both of which were incorporated around 1840 (Cincinnati was 1788).  San Fran became an incredible boom-town around 1850 (the gold rush) and Chicago really didn't kick into high gear until the mid 1870s after loosing 2/3rds of its original building stock.  Most of what's left in Chicago is 1880s-1910 that looks and feels similar to Cincinnati.  Chicago's victorian neighborhoods are huge, but the quality of the housing stock isn't generally as good as what's in Cincy. (A few areas in the gold coast and Lincoln Park are impressive but much of its working class areas that were equivalent to OTR don't compare - Chicago's [not the loop which is where all the innovation really happened] real peak IMO is early 20th century with craftsman houses greystone 2/3/4 flats and courtyard apartments - its some of the best I've seen of that style neighborhood).

 

San Fran is higher quality than what's in Cincy, incredibly ornate sequoia wood victorians with the occaisional brick corner building here and there.  Though at the same time 1/3rd of all victorian era architecture was lost due to the 1906 earthquake.  On the flip side the timing of that earthquake was such that it left some really impressive Edwardian and Art Noveau architecture in its place - the tendernob (or lower nob hill) is one of my favorite urban neighborhoods in the whole country it feels like a pastel harlem, or an old photo of downtown Cincinnati come to life minus the Italianate.

 

 

OTR is extremely special, there is next to nothing like it in the US.  Yes it was a common architecture of the mid-late 1800s but little of its level of quality remains - it seems that post 1870 that style of architecture became more simplified and less ornate unless it was a place like San Francisco.  Most neighborhoods like this were wiped off the map between 1930-1970 and even then few were as dense or ornate as Cincinnati's.

Cincinnati was incorporated in 1802 as a village and 1819 as a city. Settled in 1788.

I was wondering about that date when I posted it, thanks.

 

Still 1802 is extremely early for a non east coast American city.

Chicago, NYC, San Francisco, Boston, Philly, they are all such historic cities, that were founded way earlier than Cincinnati (in most cases), yet there historic districts are so much smaller, and only surround a few blocks.

 

Chicago and San Fran are both newer than Cincinnati - both of which were incorporated around 1840 (Cincinnati was 1788).  San Fran became an incredible boom-town around 1850 (the gold rush) and Chicago really didn't kick into high gear until the mid 1870s after loosing 2/3rds of its original building stock.  Most of what's left in Chicago is 1880s-1910 that looks and feels similar to Cincinnati.  Chicago's victorian neighborhoods are huge, but the quality of the housing stock isn't generally as good as what's in Cincy. (A few areas in the gold coast and Lincoln Park are impressive but much of its working class areas that were equivalent to OTR don't compare - Chicago's [not the loop which is where all the innovation really happened] real peak IMO is early 20th century with craftsman houses greystone 2/3/4 flats and courtyard apartments - its some of the best I've seen of that style neighborhood).

 

San Fran is higher quality than what's in Cincy, incredibly ornate sequoia wood victorians with the occaisional brick corner building here and there.  Though at the same time 1/3rd of all victorian era architecture was lost due to the 1906 earthquake.  On the flip side the timing of that earthquake was such that it left some really impressive Edwardian and Art Noveau architecture in its place - the tendernob (or lower nob hill) is one of my favorite urban neighborhoods in the whole country it feels like a pastel harlem, or an old photo of downtown Cincinnati come to life minus the Italianate.

 

 

OTR is extremely special, there is next to nothing like it in the US.  Yes it was a common architecture of the mid-late 1800s but little of its level of quality remains - it seems that post 1870 that style of architecture became more simplified and less ornate unless it was a place like San Francisco.  Most neighborhoods like this were wiped off the map between 1930-1970 and even then few were as dense or ornate as Cincinnati's.

 

 

Well that puts it better in perspective.

 

Thanks :)

 

I still believe the success of OTR will ride and die on whether it becomes a tourist destination from all around the country.

 

Here's why. I truly think that families locate in neighborhoods based on 3 factors:

 

1. Quality/Safety of neighborhood

2. Proximity to Job

3. Schooling for Kids

 

I fee like the safety of OTR will continue to go up. And I think more jobs will continue to locate downtown as Cincinnati begins to boom again.

 

That said, school wise, there's not alot of options for families. Yes, there's SPA, but the surrounding schools are less desirable to say the least.

 

That's why I have this gut feeling that when these young yuppie couples, have kids and schooling becomes an issue, many of them will leave OTR to the suburbs for the more desirable schools/private schools.

 

If you make OTR a year round tourist destination though you will have security in that you have that constant flow of visitors spreading out the wealth among the small businesses. Otherwise, I'm afraid that we might end up where we began 15-20 years down the line.

 

I was wondering about that date when I posted it, thanks.

 

Still 1802 is extremely early for a non east coast American city.

 

I believe I read it was the first non east coast american city to be settled.

 

It still pisses me off that history happened the way it did.

 

Cincinnati and Chicago are so interchangeable. Cincinnati could have easily become Chicago today if it wasn't for a few setbacks in history, with a million plus population, and hundreds of skyscrapers, while Chicago could have easily become Cincinnati today.