That's pretty big news. I'm surprised 3CDC was able to find a tenant so quickly.

 

Is this the biggest office tenant in OTR now? 

I'm not surprised. Office demand has been increasing dramatically. And with such a small amount of supply it's not shocking.

 

Hopefully they have equally similar success with 15th and Vine.

It's rather difficult to find a decent amount of office space in a walkable area like OTR, HP Square, Oakley, etc. that's not smack in downtown or some isolated non-walkable part of the neighborhood.  Seems like 3,000 SF is the most that's usually available, and even then it can be pretty chopped up with walls and stairs and such.  It illustrates the value of having some more medium to large size buildings. 

The big concern after this news is about Mt. Adams. I feel like businesses are either closing left and right, or relocating to different neighborhoods. Even the wealthy people who used to live in MT Adams are moving to OTR because of the proximity of the restaurants/bars.

 

That's one thing I don't understand about Cincinnati. I feel like in a healthy city, you would have the success be spread out from neighborhood to neighborhood. But I feel like in Cincinnati's case, the success just sort of shifts from neighborhood to neighborhood like a see-saw. So many businesses of different sorts are opening up shop in OTR, but why isn't happening in The Central Business District, Walnut Hills, Mt Adams, etc? Why is it so isolated to one location, as if an island of sorts.

 

Mt. Adams will always be the nice part of town, if nothing more because of it's outstanding views. But one has to admit that concerns are warranted about the health of the business district there. It's just getting worse and worse.

No, it's been pretty much the same since the 80s.  I lived in a cheap apartment as a young kid in Mt. Adams when it was being gentrified.  There was never a grocery store, neighborhood school, or any of that.  The large office building on St. Gregory was built around 1988.  There isn't really space for another large development without developing part of Eden Park. 

What businesses are closing left and right in Mt. Adams? Bars come and go as they always have and always will. But they're always replaced by something. Are there even any vacant storefronts in Mt. Adams at all?

 

Mt. Adams has been more or less filled to capacity in terms of residential, office, and retail space due to the fact that you have no large swatch to redevelop. You might get someone building a new townhome here or there or the hillside facing Downtown being developed, but the business district is pretty much where it's always going to be. There isn't a good way to add anything more to it without tearing down historic property which is very rarely an option. Mt. Adams isn't suffering because of OTR's success. Some of the individual bars may have to adjust or wind up closing, but something new takes their place that will relate to the current state of Mt. Adams which is becoming a lot more laid back as the rowdy crowd finds its way to OTR. This isn't a bad thing at all and Mt. Adams is adjusting just fine and still doing quite well. Real estate is still expensive there and isn't showing any sign of changing anytime soon because it's still desirable.

^That's actually not really true. The business district in Mt. Adams is definitely hurting, and it has been for a while. Sprout (the only decent restaurant in Mt. Adams imo) closed in December, the Daveeds/Mantra space has been vacant (or at least severely underutilized-- Daveeds was doing pop up dinners there recently) for a while, the corner spot on St Gregory and Hatch has been a rotating door of crappy businesses, the yellow building down from Teak which used to house a salon is vacant, and the small space that most recently was Mt Adams pizzeria has been empty for a long time too.

 

The residential market is still fine, but you're seeing the neighborhood become more dominated by older retirees. Rental housing has been getting either torn down and replaced or modified to become single family housing. The business district used to be a good mix of restaurants, bars, and shops, but now just about he only thing that can hold on are the bars. As OTR has boomed, Mt. Adams has definitely seen decline. The neighborhood has to figure out what it needs to do to gain some sort of competitive advantage again. With development options limited, they either need to push for more development around Mt. Adams (walnut hills, eastern riverfront) or better connections to downtown and OTR- namely in the form of an incline or gondola. Other than that, I see the neighborhood trajectory as being less than rosy for the foreseeable future.

Mt. Adams has always had a very, very small population.  Barely over 1,000, if that, with maybe 300 people who work there during the day.  That would include the Art Museum, Playhouse, Towne Properties, the office building on St. Gregory, and then whatever contractors are doing work on homes.  Moving the Art Academy out of the neighborhood no doubt hurt daytime customers at those shops and the rental market.  But realistically, the Art Academy was a bad place for students since the rent was already very high for the region.  But then by moving to OTR, it moved into what soon after became a high rent zone.  The fact is the Art Academy could probably sell its building in OTR and whatever rights it has to apartments (I remember art academy students living above Taste of Belgium before the restaurant moved in) and build a palace in another neighborhood. 

I guess you have to ask if Mt. Adams has the critical mass within itself to support the businesses.  Because of its size and relative isolation it's probably natural for them to be faltering somewhat.  The neighborhood is no longer a novelty in its intact urban form, so it can't draw as much in the way of "local tourists."  Conversion of apartments into single-family certainly won't help nearby businesses so the question is where does it go?  If some more citywide or regional draw locates there (possible but unlikely) then that can spin off to other businesses.  As demand goes down rents will need to follow and maybe that can allow some more startup type businesses or small offices to go there.  Because of its isolation I don't see it going all-out boutique like O'Bryonville or Hyde Park Square.  It could also mean some building go (back?) to residential, as long as the remodeling of the storefront is done well, or preferably live/work. 

Urban Motorcycle Shop, "Piston Society" will have a retail store front that focuses on Motorist gear, will also be first Cincinnati shop to bring Scooter and Motorcycle hourly rentals to cruise around OTR/Downtown.

 

1428 Race Street=http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2016/03/17/urban-motorcycle-shop-opening-in-otr.html

Retail is picking up on Clay Street.

 

"Gia and the Blooms" floral shop is opening on 13th and Clay in May.

 

 

Along with the floral shop, Chef Santos restaurant, "Please" will be opening up in August at 14th and Clay. 

In addition to the Piston Society on Race, a new motorcycle store is about to open on Main St called the Camino Supply Co. They intend to open by the first week of May: https://www.instagram.com/p/BBiWEQGp_ES/

 

 

Does anyone know what's the details about this motorcycle culture that's developing in Cincinnati? There's a huge congregation of them that hang around downtown.

 

I've noticed alot of "bikers" in OTR as well, they cruise there bikes and walk around OTR quite frequently. Now, there opening up shops in OTR now.

 

I'm just curious where this biker culture came from? It just sort of appeared out of the blue.

This is the new OTR Chamber map. Does anyone know what Mecca is? I know it's a restaurant, but who is opening it? What kind of food? Etc.

 

UPDATE: Nevermind! Found this from the Enquirer:

 

From Joe Creighton, who owns The Rookwood Restaurant in Mount Adams and Cheapside Cafe Downtown, Mecca will be a neighborhood bar on Walnut Street, a little bit out of the main action on Vine and Main Streets. It’s being constructed in a building that was built in the 1960’s. Whatever we do, it’s going to be funky,” said Creighton.

 

Rom Wells, who now spends most of his time at Cheapside, will be putting the drinks program together. Jon Mouch will create a menu, though Creighton said the food will be a bonus, not the main feature.

 

1429 Walnut St.

brian korte[/member] - your map didn't come through on the post. Did you mean to attach an image or include a link?

 

edit: now it works!

No Che?

Off topic, I know, but Che is probably one of the most overpriced resturaunts in all of OTR.

 

The food is good, but the size of the empanadas are ridicously small..and charging 12 dollars for a small salad is ridiculous.

This is the new OTR Chamber map. Does anyone know what Mecca is? I know it's a restaurant, but who is opening it? What kind of food? Etc.

 

UPDATE: Nevermind! Found this from the Enquirer:

 

From Joe Creighton, who owns The Rookwood Restaurant in Mount Adams and Cheapside Cafe Downtown, Mecca will be a neighborhood bar on Walnut Street, a little bit out of the main action on Vine and Main Streets. It’s being constructed in a building that was built in the 1960’s. Whatever we do, it’s going to be funky,” said Creighton.

 

Rom Wells, who now spends most of his time at Cheapside, will be putting the drinks program together. Jon Mouch will create a menu, though Creighton said the food will be a bonus, not the main feature.

 

1429 Walnut St.

 

FYI, this is going in the old Urban Sites office. This will be a welcome addition as there's nothing else going on in that block of Walnut.

Off topic, I know, but Che is probably one of the most overpriced resturaunts in all of OTR.

 

The food is good, but the size of the empanadas are ridicously small..and charging 12 dollars for a small salad is ridiculous.

 

Their empanadas are priced similarly to Bakersfield tacos.

My biggest problem with Che is that their empanadas were not distinct enough. I tried about 4 or 5 different empanadas on my first night there and they all tasted about the same.

Who knew the path to riches was replicating indoor recess?

 

With alcohol of course :)

 

Does that also explain the rise of tater tots?

I think tater tots are cheaper to buy or at least prep than are french fries.  I remember my place had a fry slicing thing that looked kind of like a vertical tomato witch that took up some space and slowed down the cooks.  It was also a pain to clean in part because it was made out of some different kind of metal that retained heat for a ridiculous period of time.  You put the thing through the dishwasher and you couldn't touch it for like 20 minutes.  I think they switched over to tater tots because they can be portioned in baggies ahead of time, kept in a cooler, and then just thrown in the fryer as needed. 

The southwest corner of the building at 1233 Walnut collapsed this morning. I didn't grab a picture but all the local TV news channels were there filming.

It's on WLWT

 

http://www.wlwt.com/news/chunk-of-building-collapses-in-overtherhine/38606538

 

It seems to be a partial collapse. It looks to be salvageable?

Doesn't seem as bad as the building in the West End that the car (truck?) crashed into a year or so ago, and they did an excellent job repairing it.  This building doesn't look to be in bad shape overall, same with the apartment in Clifton whose balcony collapsed last week.  I have to wonder what's triggering these problems when there aren't obviously leaking gutters or other visible long-term damage. 

Forgive me if this was known already, but was I the only one who wasn't aware how extensive the Oratory Project is going to be?

 

Apparently all the historic housing stock before Old Saint Mary on Clay Street, will be part of the project, which includes...

 

The Apostolic Center ( This center will provide offices, classrooms, a large library), Pious House, A community Chapel.

 

http://www.spncincinnati.com/support-us/our-projects/

 

 

I honestly thought it was going to be a single building, with some preists. But it's a pretty extensive project. Again, that whole block will be dedicated to the church.

According to buildingcincy twitter account, City Council passed a resolution supporting Messuraca Properties, LLC to receive Ohio Tax Credits for the rehab of 2010, 2012, 2014, 2016, 2022 and 2035 Vine Street

 

 

It could be 34 residential units in total and a minimum of one commercial space per building.

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1185791,-84.5173297,3a,75y,42.58h,98.14t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sBJH3hoookrJM2rX6mm72Jg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1196595,-84.5174426,3a,60y,298.05h,96.51t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1srPDi7UQcrhGhAkt4h7TRyw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

Wow.. we might need a "Vine Street Hill" thread before too long :)

Nice! Jimmy and Ryan are good people and have done good work in their other properties. It would be great to have an infusion of residents in that part of Vine Street.

 

Edit: I'm going to get nitpicky here, but this also isn't really the right thread for this. None of these properties are in OTR. I think we have a Mt. Auburn thread...maybe?

Why aren't we able to have this section of the map added to the OTR historic boundries the same way we recently added the Mohawk district to the OTR historic boundries?

 

I feel with CIncinnati, if it's not in a designated historic district is has an exponentially higher chance of being demolished later down the road. Plus it's basically footsteps away from OTR already.

 

Why can't we simply expand the historic boundaries till it hits Clifton?

I think you mean Clifton Heights. There's no way the OTR Historic District should be extended up to Ludlow.

 

And historic district boundaries can be expanded. The OTR Historic District was about half the size when it was first created IIRC.

OTR is the new clifton, lets make half of Cincy OTR ;)

What part of the city is that officially though?

 

Again, I don't necessarily care if it's part of OTR, its just a shame to see these historic buildings so vulnerable to demolition if not put in a designated histroic zone. It just made sense to expand it to OTR since it's so nearby.

Every property with an even number is in Mt. Auburn and the one with the odd number is in CUF technically. But most just consider the entire Vine Street hill Mt. Auburn since it has no street connections to the rest of CUF until you get up to West Hollister.

What part of the city is that officially though?

 

Again, I don't necessarily care if it's part of OTR, its just a shame to see these historic buildings so vulnerable to demolition if not put in a designated histroic zone. It just made sense to expand it to OTR since it's so nearby.

 

What jmicha said. CUF stands for Clifton Heights, University Heights, & Fairview. The west side of Vine Street going up the hill is in CUF, and, more particularly, the subneighborhood of Clifton Heights.

 

The properties specifically mentioned above are in the OTR Historic District. The ones past the Charlie's 3/4 House (past the steps that lead up to the segment of Ohio Avenue) are not in the OTR Historic District.

I know people say the development potential isn't as great with Phase 1b of the streetcar going up the hill, if it were to go on the Vine Street route.  But I could see it really activating a large area from the Vine Street, McMicken and Findlay Corner, then going up the hill, activating the hill side steps and potential for new build on Mulberry Street, etc. and the surrounding area.

Here's the map of the OTR Historic District, and the properties that Jimmy & Ryan are planning to renovate definitely fall in this district.

http://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/buildings/historic-conservation/local-conservation-guidelines/over-the-rhine-historic-district/

Exactly why I don't like the concept of the john schneider tunnel.

 

It might not be as much development, but at least you will see SOMETHING in terms of new retail/condo's along the street car routes. I can't say the same for a tunnel that will be isolated.

Is that Taft elementary school still actively being used or did they consolidate to the Mt. Auburn building? It is a huge property that is relatively flat and could fit a ton of units for redevelopment if large buildings were placed there. Whether the streetcar goes up the hill here or somewhere else I think that the Vine street curve has potential to be a very cool and very unique feeling area.

Honestly though, a tunnel opens up other opportunities for large scale development by UC and the medical campus that would then only be a couple stops from OTR which makes living/playing/working between the two much more integrated. Which is, if I am correct, the entire purpose of the tunnel idea.

 

The Vine Street route has no stops between the bottom and top of the hill. Seeing the train going by would be nice, yes, but if the stops are what spur development the most then the Vine Street route might not make that much sense. Especially since the stop at the top of the hill will be next to land that is currently being developed as the most suburban style "plaza" in the area.

Is that Taft elementary school still actively being used or did they consolidate to the Mt. Auburn building? It is a huge property that is relatively flat and could fit a ton of units for redevelopment if large buildings were placed there. Whether the streetcar goes up the hill here or somewhere else I think that the Vine street curve has potential to be a very cool and very unique feeling area.

 

CPS is renovating that school: http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/education/2015/10/12/vine-street-school-get-makeover/73816014/

 

Cincinnati Public Schools wants to renovate its old Vine Street School – upping the district’s capacity for preschool, and snatching away the now-vacant building from any hopeful charter schools.

 

The building at Vine and Mulberry streets has been empty since August 2014, when it was last used as swing space for Rothenberg and Taft elementary schools while their buildings were redone. According to Ohio law, if a public school building is unused for more than two years, districts are required to offer it for sale to charter schools.

 

So, it’s either use it or put it on the market, said CPS board of education member Eve Bolton.

 

The board voted unanimously Monday night in favor of the renovations. The proposal calls for work to proceed “as funds become available,” but the projected total cost is about $7 or $8 million, Bolton said. Ideally, the building will open next fall, she said, likely with preschool and maybe some early primary grade classrooms.

Why aren't we able to have this section of the map added to the OTR historic boundries the same way we recently added the Mohawk district to the OTR historic boundries?

 

Point of clarification, the Mohawk Place District is a new National Historic District. The local district is in the works, but will be a stand alone district, not an expansion of the OTR or Bellevue districts. Stay tuned for some updates on this.

So, random question. We have talked a lot about utility burial and how it positively affects the look and feel of the neighborhood. The other day I was thinking, in OTR, there are currently two large, ugly cell phone towers. In the CBD, where there are taller buildings, it's easy to simply mount the equipment on the top of buildings. But how do we eliminate these towers from OTR? Are there existing building that are tall enough to mount this equipment on? How do other historic districts deal with cell phone towers?

So, random question. We have talked a lot about utility burial and how it positively affects the look and feel of the neighborhood. The other day I was thinking, in OTR, there are currently two large, ugly cell phone towers. In the CBD, where there are taller buildings, it's easy to simply mount the equipment on the top of buildings. But how do we eliminate these towers from OTR? Are there existing building that are tall enough to mount this equipment on? How do other historic districts deal with cell phone towers?

 

I know that in some parts areas, the Historic Review groups and other Plan Review groups have very specific specs for cell towers that DON'T look like cell towers. Think flag poles, fake trees, in church steeples, or other elements that are otherwise non-intrusive. In OTR, the only buildings I can think of that's tall enough would be the American building, Music Hall (maybe), and some church steeples.

The fake tree ones are awful.  In Chicagoland they put the cell receivers on all sorts of building chimneys and smoke stacks, even ones that aren't really all that tall.  https://goo.gl/maps/UE2jAcBTKjR2  I suspect that here they want to get them higher than might otherwise be necessary in order for the signals to better jump over hills and penetrate down into valleys.  Plus maybe there's more barriers to standalone tower construction in the Chicago area that makes leasing space from building owners more palatable even though I'm sure the phone companies don't like it because access is more difficult and they have to make do with the height and alignment that's available.  Still, even where we do have some taller smokestacks (Don Pablo's, US Playing Card Company, Worthmore Chili, Christ Hospital, UC Hospital, etc.) I don't see cell receivers.  Maybe the roofs of these buildings are high enough, or they just lease space from the existing radio towers?  It's a good question.  The tower at Main and McMicken is awful, especially because all the equipment is out in the open.  Even if they can't or don't want to build an actual building, they could at least build some walls rather than a fence around it. https://goo.gl/maps/UJtAUwbzAd42

That tower at Main & McMicken went up in 1998.  I have some video footage somewhere I made of the area right when that got installed. 

I was just randomly perusing the Historic Conservation Board most recent materials for April and saw something that really fascinates me. There's a 10,935 sqaure foot building on clay street that's being converted into a massive single family home with guest apartment. That is truely impressive. I guess some areas of OTR just aren't going to get any sort of density. :-P

I was just randomly perusing the Historic Conservation Board most recent materials for April and saw something that really fascinates me. There's a 10,935 sqaure foot building on clay street that's being converted into a massive single family home with guest apartment. That is truely impressive. I guess some areas of OTR just aren't going to get any sort of density. :-P

 

The problem is we need to stop seeing OTR as The Lower East Side, but rather as The Greenwich village.

 

It will never return to it's original density because OTR is less about cramming the abundance of people and german immigrants that have just moved to Cincinnati into tight living quarters, and more about rich people who can afford the life of luxury.

That tower at Main & McMicken went up in 1998.  I have some video footage somewhere I made of the area right when that got installed. 

 

 

Also, just tonight I re-noticed that the Alms Hotel in Walnut Hills has a cell phone tower on it. 

I was just randomly perusing the Historic Conservation Board most recent materials for April and saw something that really fascinates me. There's a 10,935 sqaure foot building on clay street that's being converted into a massive single family home with guest apartment. That is truely impressive. I guess some areas of OTR just aren't going to get any sort of density. :-P

 

The plan has these openings for an interior courtyard cut out on what was pretty much the blank wall on the south side of the building, it's a neat idea, but my concern would be if that means the parking lot to the south will forever be a parking lot and never see infill development because of that.