Drove down Vine recently and saw a large 3CDC sign on this building https://goo.gl/maps/Fy6YBbTFq462 i believe it said coming soon Office Space and referenced '####' amount of square feet. Not sure how long the sign has been there but I do not recall seeing it a few weeks ago. I am kind of surprised this building would be renovated into office space as the floor plates are relatively small...I wonder if there has been strong interest at the 15/Vine office building and they are trying to meet that demand.

 

I think that has kind of been in the works for awhile to have office space there.  I'm guessing smaller tech firms, etc. would find it useful.  I think eventually when they re-do the Kroger after the new one is built they will have a big redevelopment there behind the Kroger as well with another large parking ramp to spur development on 15th over to Walnut.  Kind of seems doubtful anything will happen around the old Grammar's site with Rookwood now as that was a long time ago.  I thought I saw somewhere that 3CDC picked those buildings up but maybe I am wrong.

Thanks Jake.  Not living down there anymore I don't get down there enough, is that building at the SE Corner of 15th and Republic being rehabbed as well?

Yes, it's part of the 15th and Vine project.

 

Thank you, I didn't realize that the 15th and Vine project included that building.

Does anyone know the plans for the below building.  Looks like 1512 Moore Street.  Maybe just stabilization?  Seems to be owned by 3CDC

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1127511,-84.5152244,3a,30y,126.04h,99.64t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s4NdNS_4anckQ-Nl6C-RT5g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

 

http://wedge1.hcauditor.org/search_results

^ A site plan for that group of buildings on Moore, and the ones behind them on Walnut, was posted on this website (somewhere) awhile back - maybe a couple years now? It may have been in an HCB packet. They had proposed a small parking lot between the buildings, accessed from the end of Moore, with apartments in all of the buildings surrounding it. A few of those buildings on Moore and Walnut right there are already apartments (I lived in one years ago). It's possible that's finally moving forward.

Drove down Vine recently and saw a large 3CDC sign on this building https://goo.gl/maps/Fy6YBbTFq462 i believe it said coming soon Office Space and referenced '####' amount of square feet. Not sure how long the sign has been there but I do not recall seeing it a few weeks ago. I am kind of surprised this building would be renovated into office space as the floor plates are relatively small...I wonder if there has been strong interest at the 15/Vine office building and they are trying to meet that demand.

 

^ FYI, this is the Meiners Flats building. I had speculated that 3CDC would renovate this as part of the Kroger block redevelopment, but I guess they are going to go ahead and get a head start on this one.

Jake or anyone else: What would you estimate the level of development is currently compared to say 2-3 years ago?  It seems more is going on to me, but wanted to get your opinion or anyone else's.

Dollar figures versus number of buildings/units?  I don't know either.  Looks can be deceiving, either way.  Anecdotally, 3CDC seems like it's doing about the same amount (roughly 3 projects at once) but Model is doing much more than it was previously.  OTR Adopt is a small player but it looks like they're just about out of properties in the neighborhood so if they continue it will be elsewhere. 

 

I think the big problem now is that everything has to be hi-end in order to make a project profitable for the insane prices people are trying to get for their lots and derelict buildings.  Things would be proceeding more quickly if this city had more wealthy buyers. 

 

 

Jake or anyone else: What would you estimate the level of development is currently compared to say 2-3 years ago?  It seems more is going on to me, but wanted to get your opinion or anyone else's.

Three years ago, certainly 4, I was usually keeping track of projects on one hand. When a new one started it was news, and everybody knew. Now, I've long ago given that up. I have no idea what projects are starting or ending, and assume I don't. It's too busy.

I think the big problem now is that everything has to be hi-end in order to make a project profitable for the insane prices people are trying to get for their lots and derelict buildings.  Things would be proceeding more quickly if this city had more wealthy buyers.

 

Another issue is that what's high-end in Cincinnati apparently isn't high-end enough to warrant quality building & materials, in most cases. I don't know if that's because the developers legitimately can't make the numbers work or if there's another reason.

I think the big problem now is that everything has to be hi-end in order to make a project profitable for the insane prices people are trying to get for their lots and derelict buildings.  Things would be proceeding more quickly if this city had more wealthy buyers.

 

Another issue is that what's high-end in Cincinnati apparently isn't high-end enough to warrant quality building & materials, in most cases. I don't know if that's because the developers legitimately can't make the numbers work or if there's another reason.

 

Cost of construction is slightly above national average in Cincinnati. This means Cincy market rents do not cover the cost of unit construction unless it's at luxury levels. Unless there is some sort of gap financing to cover lower rent price points.

Cost of construction is slightly above national average in Cincinnati. This means Cincy market rents do not cover the cost of unit construction unless it's at luxury levels. Unless there is some sort of gap financing to cover lower rent price points.

 

 

Meanwhile, owners of existing multifamilies are selling for very high prices.  You are going to get negative returns on most east side multi-families purchased in 2018 and the west side isn't much better. 

 

Someone is trying to get ridiculous money for a 3-unit building on Hammer St. right now, like a 5% return at very best on a $380k property. 

They are starting to put the final material on the facade of the 15th & Vine office building, and I gotta say, I think it looks pretty good. I was skeptical during construction due to the staggered windows but I think the final product is going to look pretty nice.

 

Also I can confirm that there is a sign reading "14,000 SF office space coming soon" on the Meiners Flats building, and "10,000 SF office space coming soon" on the Rosco building (SE corner of 15th & Vine). These are the 2 buildings in question:

 

Apartments, including some corporate housing, coming to OTR

 

 

Three buildings in Over-the-Rhine are now under renovation as the developer looks to add apartment units to the historic neighborhood north of the Central Business District.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/02/12/exclusive-apartments-including-some-corporate.html

three buildings being turned into 25 apartments is great! And starting at $910/month for a one bedroom isn't outrageous.

Empower Media Marketing filled their top floor with 50 new branding / package design jobs with average salary of $70k.  This is great, IMO and exactly what OTR needs and maybe even can double or triple the # of office users in this small area with 15th and Vine projects (including the office projects Travis highlighted above).  I was just down in the area yesterday for some business and it seemed like overnight the lunch crowd was much better than 3 months back, most likely due a lot to Empower's new HQ.

 

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/02/20/over-the-rhine-office-building-adds-top-floor.html

I was just down in the area yesterday for some business and it seemed like overnight the lunch crowd was much better than 3 months back, most likely due a lot to Empower's new HQ.

 

Most likely due to it being the nicest day of the year so far, and 3 months ago being the dead of winter.

The Freeport Row properties at Elm and Liberty were recorded as sold today to FG OTR I LLC, though the company doesn't appear to be registered on the Ohio Secretary of State website. Not sure if that means the project is moving forward in some other capacity or completely dead, but thought it might be worth sharing.

The Freeport Row properties at Elm and Liberty were recorded as sold today to FG OTR I LLC, though the company doesn't appear to be registered on the Ohio Secretary of State website. Not sure if that means the project is moving forward in some other capacity or completely dead, but thought it might be worth sharing.

 

I saw that as well and could not find anything on FG OTR I. They sold for $1.75MM which seems like a lot of money for mostly vacant land.

^ I would bet that Source3 sold not only the land, but also the fully approved project, to a new developer. Seems like a good sign that it will actually get built.

^ and 3CDC did pay $1.5MM for the smaller parcel of essentially vacant land on the opposite corner. Not saying it's "worth it" but, in an economic sense, you can only gauge that by sales. So, I guess it is.

Monday's meeting of the OTR Community Council is the one you have to renew your membership at for 2018 or else your voting privileges lapse.  That means if you show up to join/renew at some other meeting this year, you will have to wait one month until the meeting after that to be able to vote.  If you are an OTR resident, it's a good time to consider joining if you want to be able to vote on any specific issues that may come up this year. Monday's meeting will also be at Memorial Hall due to work being done at the Rec Center.

Just getting around to posting some photos I took a few months ago... this is the Market Square Phase Two project on Elm Street on 9/21/2017:

 

 

 

Also, there has been a large number of utility trucks on Elm Street from Liberty to McMicken for the past few weeks. Does anybody know what's up with that?

Info about the sale of the Freeport Row properties: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/03/02/exclusive-new-developer-joins-25-million-otr-mixed.html

 

Summary: Fortus Group (http://thefortusgroup.com/service/market-rate-housing/) bought into the development, and they plan to bring it forward starting this summer with minimal changes anticipated.

 

If the hope was to end up with a somewhat higher quality development through interaction with Source3 -- not sure that there is much hope of that with the addition of Fortus. But bottom line is that the additional people in 110 apartments will be quite a change for this corner.

Maybe just me but I feel like main st in otr has a different vibe, especially with the movement of the homeless shelter that used to be there. Definitely feels a little less rough and gritty.

Take a look at the latest apartments near Findlay Market

 

 

A large mixed-use project near Over-the-Rhine’s Findlay Market is nearing the home stretch.

 

The Film Center, a nearly $11 million redevelopment of a former Warner Brothers warehouse across the street from the Samuel Adams Brewery, is expected to have its first residents move in April 1. Urban Sites redeveloped the more than 40,000-square-foot building into 44 luxury apartments and about 10,000 square feet of first-floor commercial space.

 

Danny Lipson, chief development officer for Urban Sites, said the apartments in Film Center [/member] Findlay Market will be unique in the region.

 

“These will be the first true urban lofts in Cincinnati,” Lipson told me.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/03/09/take-a-look-at-the-latest-apartments-near-findlay.html

OTR's office space boom is built to last

 

3CDC also is looking to get started on its next office project, the Meiners and Rosco buildings on Vine Street. The roughly $7 million project will convert the buildings at 1500-02 Vine St. and 1434 Vine St. into 26,000 square feet of office space with 6,000 square feet of first-floor commercial space.

 

Something that could change with Meiners and Rosco would be breaking the buildings up into commercial condos. That way, 3CDC could control what it considers the vital first-floor space but give companies the ability to have an equity stake in the neighborhood. He said there is no need for 3CDC to control the upper-level office spaces long term.

So I heard a rumor about the shell on liberty st. I was told that udf was looking to buy that shell and redevelop the property. I’m guessing this is partially fueled by the potential of fcc moving to the west end, and linders involvement.

So I heard a rumor about the shell on liberty st. I was told that udf was looking to buy that shell and redevelop the property.

 

I know of a guy that’s going to be ecstatic....

So I heard a rumor about the shell on liberty st. I was told that udf was looking to buy that shell and redevelop the property. I’m guessing this is partially fueled by the potential of fcc moving to the west end, and linders involvement.

 

It would have to be a pretty great offer, as the only gas station in the CBD, OTR, and Pendleton it has a ton of traffic and is grandfathered in. The recent site security improvements by the owner seem to indicate they are not going anywhere. The owner had plans years ago to redevelop the site with a corner convenience store/Subway and expand the pumps, but it never came to fruition.

 

As someone who literally lives and works a half a block away, I would be happy with improvements in the site, but until other neighborhood safety improvements are made any 24 hour gas station will have its problems.

As someone who literally lives and works a half a block away, I would be happy with improvements in the site, but until other neighborhood safety improvements are made any 24 hour gas station will have its problems.

 

I talked to a guy who used to work security at the Greyhound Station...he said he used to send passengers up there on layovers if they absolutely insisted on going somewhere to buy cigarettes, etc.  He said one time a passenger was robbed so totally and completely that he came back to the station wearing only a piece of carpet he found in the trash somewhere. 

Liberty Shell is a menace. Easily the most dangerous place in OTR. Every desperado knows one thing for sure: every visitor there has a credit card and a car. Two things you can be jacked for. Our neighborhood operations officers just hang out around the corner to arrest the perps. I can't imagine how many service calls the CPD has had there. If anything it has increased with the disappearance of other bodegas. A couple of years ago, it was reported that the police had 2000 calls to the Shell in a 24 month period. That's about 3 a day.

 

I'd push my car to Newport instead of pulling in there.

^I doubt much would change on the Liberty Shell property until the areas around it get a bit better, more people living in the housing around it.  Kind of a chicken and egg thing there really, but unless you redevelop the Shell to something other than a 24 hour gas station or gas station in general, I don't think much would change until people take the chance to redevelop the properties immediatly around it which are vacant currently, than that woudl probably help, but who would want to live there exactly?  You'd be afraid to venture too far after dark.  I've had a couple experiences there day and night which weren't the best, though I wasn't mugged, the one time I decided (I'm just going to walk over there to grab a drink), I had 3 people run up to me from around the corners of the building at 7 pm at night, it was unnerving to say the least and I didn't do it again.

The owner had plans years ago to redevelop the site with a corner convenience store/Subway and expand the pumps, but it never came to fruition.

 

That's what should ultimately happen to that site (assuming that it's going to stay a gas station). Kroger-owned Turkey Hill has a gas station in Columbus with a convenience store fronting the street and the pumps hidden behind. Actually, now that Kroger is building a grocery store downtown, maybe they should acquire the Shell and turn it into a Kroger Fuel Center with that sort of design.

The owner had plans years ago to redevelop the site with a corner convenience store/Subway and expand the pumps, but it never came to fruition.

 

That's what should ultimately happen to that site (assuming that it's going to stay a gas station). Kroger-owned Turkey Hill has a gas station in Columbus with a convenience store fronting the street and the pumps hidden behind. Actually, now that Kroger is building a grocery store downtown, maybe they should acquire the Shell and turn it into a Kroger Fuel Center with that sort of design.

 

If Kroger didn't sell off its convenience store brands last month, they would be a great for this, but I doubt they want to mess with a non-compete on the buy out contract with the new owners...

The auditor's appraised value for the Liberty Shell property (0.6 acres) is only $178k. I'd be curious how profitable they are. With no direct competition in downtown/OTR, they should be raking it in.

gas stations don't make a lot of money on the actual gas iirc. They do have competition for convenience stores, and many of those are better because you can actually go inside and pick things out (H + A, New York Dry Cleaners, Tina's, UR Mart, and the few convenience stores on Vine.

gas stations don't make a lot of money on the actual gas iirc. They do have competition for convenience stores, and many of those are better because you can actually go inside and pick things out (H + A, New York Dry Cleaners, Tina's, UR Mart, and the few convenience stores on Vine.

Good point. I think you're right that the gas itself tends to be fairly low margin. That property has so much empty space (especially when you consider the defunct carwash)... which is what makes it feel like such a wasted opportunity.

Not to get too far off topic here, but this discussion makes me think of the possibilities once electric cars start making up a significant percentage of vehicles on the road. I think a lot of cities (probably more progressives ones at first, then it'll become mainstream) will start banning gas stations from dense urban areas. Since electric cars take more time to charge, it makes sense to incorporate charging locations into parking garages and I can't imaging there being many standalone charging station in dense, urban neighborhoods.

gas stations don't make a lot of money on the actual gas iirc. They do have competition for convenience stores, and many of those are better because you can actually go inside and pick things out (H + A, New York Dry Cleaners, Tina's, UR Mart, and the few convenience stores on Vine.

 

True, but they have a liquor license and are open 24 hours a day which does help them out. Plus their shrinkage is probably nothing due to the fact that people can't come into the store!

The owner had plans years ago to redevelop the site with a corner convenience store/Subway and expand the pumps, but it never came to fruition.

 

That's what should ultimately happen to that site (assuming that it's going to stay a gas station). Kroger-owned Turkey Hill has a gas station in Columbus with a convenience store fronting the street and the pumps hidden behind. Actually, now that Kroger is building a grocery store downtown, maybe they should acquire the Shell and turn it into a Kroger Fuel Center with that sort of design.

 

UDF!!!!!

I doubt you will see UDF there. A successful retailer at Liberty and Walnut will be charging 1.5 times normal for everything (which UDF will not do for PR reasons), will have an armed security guard on hand (which UDF will not do for liability reasons), will prosecute shoplifters  (which would be a full time job there), and will carry what the people want (diluted vodka, rolling papers and Swisher Sweets (which UDF might do).

3CDC is rehabbing 30-38 and 44-56 E. Court Street with Commercial white box on ground floor and residential apartments above with rooftop decks.  They don't require parking per zoning code so this will be cool to see how these do.  Not certain if this was mentioned before:

 

https://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/buildings/historic-conservation/historic-conservation-board/march-12-2018-staff-report-and-attachments/

 

Starting around page 190 or somewhere around there.

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1065651,-84.5126928,3a,75y,293.79h,98.93t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s03I_QupBTOiMn2ROHDOo2A!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo1.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3D03I_QupBTOiMn2ROHDOo2A%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D101.932556%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656

 

&

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1063661,-84.5131673,3a,37.5y,327.64h,95.97t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1slJtSSJYIVQ8q6WxPvLSHZA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

3CDC is rehabbing 30-38 and 44-56 E. Court Street with Commercial white box on ground floor and residential apartments above with rooftop decks.  They don't require parking per zoning code so this will be cool to see how these do.  Not certain if this was mentioned before:

 

https://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/buildings/historic-conservation/historic-conservation-board/march-12-2018-staff-report-and-attachments/

 

Starting around page 190 or somewhere around there.

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1065651,-84.5126928,3a,75y,293.79h,98.93t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s03I_QupBTOiMn2ROHDOo2A!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo1.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3D03I_QupBTOiMn2ROHDOo2A%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D101.932556%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656

 

&

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1063661,-84.5131673,3a,37.5y,327.64h,95.97t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1slJtSSJYIVQ8q6WxPvLSHZA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

Great to see they are investing around the Central/Walnut development. Court Street has the potential to be a really cool area once the gaps are filled in.

The latest HCB packet shows that the Mikey's/Oddfellows proposal for 2014 Elm St has been modified to reduce the size of the patio and remove the rooftop deck. Really, really annoying that our zoning code is forcing buildings to scale back to less dense, less vibrant uses. The parking requirements are ridiculous are ridiculous. We need a comprehensive review of parking policies to address residential and commercial needs.

 

The rooftop on this 1-story building would not have had incredible views, so I don't see it as a huge deal-breaker... but I still find it extremely annoying that the HCB is forcing them to downscale their project.

 

March 12 packet (page 11 shows revised patio with no rooftop deck): https://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/buildings/historic-conservation/historic-conservation-board/march-12-2018-staff-report-and-attachments/

January 8 packet (page 186 shows original rooftop plan): https://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/buildings/historic-conservation/historic-conservation-board/january-8-2018-staff-report-and-attachments/

The parking requirements are ridiculous are ridiculous.

 

Incidentally, this vacant lot on Dunlap was recently turned into a pay parking lot with about 25-30 spots:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/2014+Elm+St,+Cincinnati,+OH+45202/@39.1175404,-84.5213916,113m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x8841b3f83808f3e5:0x2a247a558c46721a!8m2!3d39.1180468!4d-84.5204603

Yeah, none of the zoning is changing with the current administration, too scary

The latest HCB packet shows that the Mikey's/Oddfellows proposal for 2014 Elm St has been modified to reduce the size of the patio and remove the rooftop deck. Really, really annoying that our zoning code is forcing buildings to scale back to less dense, less vibrant uses. The parking requirements are ridiculous are ridiculous. We need a comprehensive review of parking policies to address residential and commercial needs.

 

The rooftop on this 1-story building would not have had incredible views, so I don't see it as a huge deal-breaker... but I still find it extremely annoying that the HCB is forcing them to downscale their project.

 

March 12 packet (page 11 shows revised patio with no rooftop deck): https://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/buildings/historic-conservation/historic-conservation-board/march-12-2018-staff-report-and-attachments/

January 8 packet (page 186 shows original rooftop plan): https://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/buildings/historic-conservation/historic-conservation-board/january-8-2018-staff-report-and-attachments/

 

Agreed. HCB should not be forcing people to scale down and materially alter their business plan or not open at all because they do not have dedicated parking spots. Requiring dedicated spots is not a reasonable (or sustainable) approach. It is not like every restaurant downtown has a parking lot in the back. People figure it out and understand how it works.

The only parking garage I've ever seen full in OTR is the Washington Park garage; and it's only a block from the WCET garage, two from Gateway and Mercer garages. Never had a problem parking on the street within a couple blocks of a non-Findlay Market destination north of Liberty (the market has its own parking lots). If anything, there is already more parking than necessary in OTR.

 

On top of that, it's extremely hard to see what parking requirements have to do with Historic Conservation. Parking infrastructure tends to detract from a historic vibe, to say the least.

3CDC gradually moving city properties north of Liberty

 

After nearly four years, the Cincinnati Center City Development Corp. has unloaded nearly two-thirds of the city-owned properties it was charged with redeveloping north of Liberty Street, mostly near the Findlay Market area.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/03/16/3cdc-gradually-moving-city-properties-north-of.html

15th & Vine project today: