May 8, 20187 yr ^in those first two angled shots, you can see the demo work being done behind Weilert's which wrapped up towards the end of last summer. I really hope 3CDC moves ahead with renovating Weilert's as quickly as possible.
May 8, 20187 yr That space is really large, and there is enough room to place a two bay garage the same dimensions as Mercer's Garage and still keep some of the old Weilert's Beer garden space. I would love to see some sort of outdoor beer garden brought back to that location and not a three bay parking garage that fills the whole middle of the block.
May 8, 20187 yr God I hope we get a German themed beer hall in Weilert's. Making that building anything else just wouldn't seem right,
May 8, 20187 yr That space is really large, and there is enough room to place a two bay garage the same dimensions as Mercer's Garage and still keep some of the old Weilert's Beer garden space. I would love to see some sort of outdoor beer garden brought back to that location and not a three bay parking garage that fills the whole middle of the block. It's an unusual block since there is no center alley or narrow street. Perhaps there was an east-west alley that was filled in for the Kroger. They could bisect the block east/west with a new narrow street along the south edge of the current Kroger. That would free up the design to allow windows if not front doors along the new street. It would also break the development up into two halves that could be phased and then sold as different properties in the future.
May 8, 20187 yr ^ It looks like there were never any alleys, which seems to have resulted in the interior of the block never really being utilized for anything spectacular: https://i.imgur.com/H5cbz1Q.png It housed the beer garden, a carousel/swimming pool, circus storage, and a few stables and undertakers (in the same building - google tells me this was common!). By the last edition, the horses had been replaced by cars for the most part - the Kroger lot was a car dealership and the lots on Walnut were already parking: https://i.imgur.com/p0pykuM.png
May 8, 20187 yr That space is really large, and there is enough room to place a two bay garage the same dimensions as Mercer's Garage and still keep some of the old Weilert's Beer garden space. I would love to see some sort of outdoor beer garden brought back to that location and not a three bay parking garage that fills the whole middle of the block. They have lot of options due to how much space they have to work with. In my attached graphic, I cloned One Mercer (yellow rectangle) and the Mercer Garage (red rectangle). As you can see, they have enough room to build that facing Walnut without needing to demolish any buildings. However, I suspect they will want the garage to have entrances/exits off of Vine so will put it somewhere more like the blue rectangle.
May 9, 20187 yr The most significant structure/attraction in this whole area was the old Turners Gym. Turners was the hub of German life when OtR reflected its namesake. When the building was vacated by the Turners in the 50's it became the hub of Appalachian life, right up until it was demolished in 1974. The place was utterly amazing, reeking of history and mystery, it was a fortress of dungeon like basements, mysterious hidden upper levels, and a cavernous gymnasium. In my mind it is one of the most unfortunate demolitions in the history of the neighborhood. If there is not some reference to the part it played in OtR's history, well then, that would just be tragic.
May 9, 20187 yr The most significant structure/attraction in this whole area was the old Turners Gym. Turners was the hub of German life when OtR reflected its namesake. When the building was vacated by the Turners in the 50's it became the hub of Appalachian life, right up until it was demolished in 1974. The place was utterly amazing, reeking of history and mystery, it was a fortress of dungeon like basements, mysterious hidden upper levels, and a cavernous gymnasium. In my mind it is one of the most unfortunate demolitions in the history of the neighborhood. If there is not some reference to the part it played in OtR's history, well then, that would just be tragic. A new fall compliment to Bockfest could be held, Turnfest. Like Turnfest '18. It could be like Number Fest in Athens. http://digital.libraries.uc.edu/exhibits/arb/turnfest/turnfest3.php
May 9, 20187 yr The most significant structure/attraction in this whole area was the old Turners Gym. Turners was the hub of German life when OtR reflected its namesake. When the building was vacated by the Turners in the 50's it became the hub of Appalachian life, right up until it was demolished in 1974. The place was utterly amazing, reeking of history and mystery, it was a fortress of dungeon like basements, mysterious hidden upper levels, and a cavernous gymnasium. In my mind it is one of the most unfortunate demolitions in the history of the neighborhood. If there is not some reference to the part it played in OtR's history, well then, that would just be tragic. A new fall compliment to Bockfest could be held, Turnfest. Like Turnfest '18. It could be like Number Fest in Athens. http://digital.libraries.uc.edu/exhibits/arb/turnfest/turnfest3.php There could be feats of strength. And airings of grievances.
May 9, 20187 yr So whatever happened to that development on 14th and Republic, that small warehouse building? I thought it was supposed to be a bar and a rooftop bar. Whatever happened with that?
May 9, 20187 yr I believe the rooftop bar portion did not get approved and was what the developer was wanting to do So they did not move forward with the project. I would like to see that building get developed whether it be a bar or a restaurant.
May 9, 20187 yr I don't know what should be done, I just don't want the history of this location to be forgotten, it has to be highlighted somehow. The old Turner's Gym building was simply massive. I sat on the rooftop of the garage portion of that building behind Wielert's (I don't recall what it was) and watched the demolition. Even as a 10 year old punk kid I realized the important piece of history being lost.
May 9, 20187 yr 3CDC has moved the King's Court barber shop from Court to the 1400 block of Race: Incidentally, not "The King" (the Elvis impersonator) barber, but his old partner (whose name I can't remember) used to cut hair at the shop in the lobby of the Metropole. The guy drove a gigantic green Cadillac that was usually parked where the 21C Valet is now. The shop was the only store in the lobby...there was a security guard to get upstairs. The shop itself was noteworthy for having shelves stocked with years' worth of Playboy magazines. This is also back when the Phoenix Cafe was cranking at full power and teamed with the Metropole in its drug and prostitution business. So you'd be there getting your hair cut watching the guys in line look at Playboys with a never-ending cascade of sleazy characters traveling through the Metropole lobby.
May 9, 20187 yr Grandin Properties has sold 1621 Logan, which looks to be the (former?) boys and girls club building along Central to FG OTR...which I believe is the Fortus Group. They are doing the mixed use project on the former Anthem site in East Walnut Hills.
May 9, 20187 yr Hopefully this non-historic building with bad urban form (it's almost completely windowless!) can be demolished and replaced with a new large residential development!
May 9, 20187 yr Hopefully this non-historic building with bad urban form (it's almost completely windowless!) can be demolished and replaced with a new large residential development! If the Boys and Girls Club site can be redeveloped along with the Elm/Liberty project that would be a great anchor to north of Liberty and start to connect with Findlay...a few hundred residential units with new commercial space.
May 9, 20187 yr It's funny how the Elm & Liberty project was almost dead with Source 3, but as soon as the FG joined they are now beginning construction this summer, and also seem to be continuing there Elm and Liberty expansion phase with 1621 Logan. It's a huge ugly building to. This is great for NoL.
May 10, 20187 yr Work is beginning today on the Woodward Theater marquee project. The front of the theater is being powerwashed and prep work is beginning, and the marquee itself should be installed by this fall.
May 10, 20187 yr Developer buys former Boys & Girls Club in Over-the-Rhine The developer that recently joined the team working on the $25 million Freeport Row project has purchased the former Boys & Girls Club building in Over-the-Rhine. More below: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/05/10/exclusive-developer-buys-former-boys-girls-club-in.html "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
May 11, 20187 yr More new businesses opening near the northernmost streetcar stop: Axe-throwing venue coming to OTR An indoor axe-throwing company is opening its doors in Over-the-Rhine. Urban Axes will open a 6,000-square-foot facility at 2010 Elm St. that will house 3.5 arenas with 14 targets that can host up to 100 axe throwers at a time. The venue will also feature a bar serving beer and wine. The space is currently being built out and the Philadelphia-based company expects it will open in the fall. Founded in 2016, Urban Axes has locations in Philadelphia and Austin, Texas along with locations in the works in Baltimore, Boston and Durham, N.C. It expects to add locations in four to five new cities in 2018.
May 11, 20187 yr You can't make this stuff up^^^^ I can just imagine that there are gonna be 100 people who want to throw axes up at 2010 Elm St./not
May 11, 20187 yr ^I think it'll be pretty popular. It's popular in other cities that have them. My brother said he went to one in Pittsburgh and it was surprisingly fun. By the fall there will be a new brewery behind the pool on McMicken (another one in the old Moerlein Ice House, I believe), there will be this axe throwing place, a distillery/event center, and a pizza place with rooftop bar. All within walking distance of Rhinegeist, Skeleton Root, and Dunlap Cafe. This corner of the neighborhood will soon feel very active.
May 11, 20187 yr ^I think it'll be pretty popular. It's popular in other cities that have them. My brother said he went to one in Pittsburgh and it was surprisingly fun. By the fall there will be a new brewery behind the pool on McMicken (another one in the old Moerlein Ice House, I believe), there will be this axe throwing place, a distillery/event center, and a pizza place with rooftop bar. All within walking distance of Rhinegeist, Skeleton Root, and Dunlap Cafe. This corner of the neighborhood will soon feel very active. Rooftop bar on the pizza place got nixed... because of HCB/zoning/NIMBY concerns about too much outdoor space and not enough parking: https://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/buildings/historic-conservation/historic-conservation-board/march-12-2018-staff-report-and-attachments/ UPDATE: The applicants have made the following changes to their proposal - The applicants have removed the roof deck from the proposal and are only utilizing the rear patio as an outdoor space. This space is less than 50% of the interior space and therefore does not need a Conditional Use. - The applicants have removed the request for Outdoor Entertainment, including the use of audio/visual equipment of amplified sound. - The reduced patio makes the total occupied area for the restaurant 6816 sf, which generates a reduced parking demand of 45 parking spaces plus 2 spaces for the office. The applicants have secured 36 parking spaces through two potential leases and are requesting a variance for 11 spots.
May 11, 20187 yr Axe throwing places are all the rage right now. They've popped up everywhere and are very popular. I'm sure this place will do just fine while the trend lasts.
May 11, 20187 yr So this is great and all, but I still hope that OTR will create entertainment options that are not simply breweries/bars/restaurants, etc. I still think the next major step would be to include a, "downtown" mall of sorts. I've always envisioned this for the Pendelton lots. A movie theater, enclosed with various high retail stores like h and m, rolex, Coach, Nike stores, North Face, Micheal Kors, etc. If you go to any major city in America or in Europe, they have a downtown urban shopping center. NYC has Times Square, Chicago has the Magnificent Mile, and Toronto has Dundas Square. I know this may be an unpopular opinion, and maybe an improbable one for Cincinnati at this stage of the game...That said, if you have a family visiting OTR, sure you can check our some kick ass restaurants, and maybe stop by Graters for ice cream, and stroll Washington park...but aside from that, you don't really have a life hub. Creating an OTR shopping center/downtown mall, would create more reasons for a family to visit and actually stay in OTR longer. Otherwise, most families will park there car, eat at the restaurant, cross the street for graters and go home. We need to be creating more unique entertainment options. So far, it's been a constant cycle of bar > restaurant > bar > brewery > restaurant. We need more entertainment options and variety...especially for families with young kids and teenagers. Hell, if you were a UC student and are under 21, aside from eating a restaurant you would have very little reason to go to OTR aside from some miscellaneous festivals at Washington Park .
May 12, 20187 yr What could go wrong? Alcohol, axe throwing? Sorry, its just really stupid. I'm sure a new bar can make money for 6 months doing anything, but this axe throwing is neither a sport or any fun.
May 12, 20187 yr It would be nice to see more upscale retail. IMO it would be cool to have an Apple store downtown and I think it would do well.
May 12, 20187 yr Hmmm. Golf . . . Axe throwing. Golf? Axe throwing? Hmmm. I guess you have a point there. /s
May 12, 20187 yr Hmmm. Golf . . . Axe throwing. Golf? Axe throwing? Hmmm. I guess you have a point there. /s Okay, you don't like it. Don't go. Good for you. Others DO enjoy it, hence the popularity of these places in other cities.
May 12, 20187 yr I always wonder: who supports these really, really stupid business plans. Friends and family, colleagues, advisors?It seems like someone with some common sense would say "Hey, wait a minute. That's a fad for places that already have two bars with rodeo mechanical horses and three with bowling machines and 2 with basketball hoops and others with bar Olympics, and trivia night and dart tournaments." Now I know. I think they need investors.
May 12, 20187 yr So this is great and all, but I still hope that OTR will create entertainment options that are not simply breweries/bars/restaurants, etc. I still think the next major step would be to include a, "downtown" mall of sorts. I've always envisioned this for the Pendelton lots. A movie theater, enclosed with various high retail stores like h and m, rolex, Coach, Nike stores, North Face, Micheal Kors, etc. If you go to any major city in America or in Europe, they have a downtown urban shopping center. NYC has Times Square, Chicago has the Magnificent Mile, and Toronto has Dundas Square. I know this may be an unpopular opinion, and maybe an improbable one for Cincinnati at this stage of the game...That said, if you have a family visiting OTR, sure you can check our some kick ass restaurants, and maybe stop by Graters for ice cream, and stroll Washington park...but aside from that, you don't really have a life hub. Creating an OTR shopping center/downtown mall, would create more reasons for a family to visit and actually stay in OTR longer. Otherwise, most families will park there car, eat at the restaurant, cross the street for graters and go home. We need to be creating more unique entertainment options. So far, it's been a constant cycle of bar > restaurant > bar > brewery > restaurant. We need more entertainment options and variety...especially for families with young kids and teenagers. Hell, if you were a UC student and are under 21, aside from eating a restaurant you would have very little reason to go to OTR aside from some miscellaneous festivals at Washington Park . I understand why people want to have things like malls and movie theaters downtown, but IMO, those things will not be successful in Downtown Cincinnati. (At least not at this point in time.) Suburbanites in Cincinnati will not pay to park downtown to go to a mall or movie theater downtown when they can do those activities in the suburbs and get free parking. Let's keep downtown focused on unique things that you can't also get in the suburbs.
May 12, 20187 yr So this is great and all, but I still hope that OTR will create entertainment options that are not simply breweries/bars/restaurants, etc. I still think the next major step would be to include a, "downtown" mall of sorts. I've always envisioned this for the Pendelton lots. A movie theater, enclosed with various high retail stores like h and m, rolex, Coach, Nike stores, North Face, Micheal Kors, etc. If you go to any major city in America or in Europe, they have a downtown urban shopping center. NYC has Times Square, Chicago has the Magnificent Mile, and Toronto has Dundas Square. I know this may be an unpopular opinion, and maybe an improbable one for Cincinnati at this stage of the game...That said, if you have a family visiting OTR, sure you can check our some kick ass restaurants, and maybe stop by Graters for ice cream, and stroll Washington park...but aside from that, you don't really have a life hub. Creating an OTR shopping center/downtown mall, would create more reasons for a family to visit and actually stay in OTR longer. Otherwise, most families will park there car, eat at the restaurant, cross the street for graters and go home. We need to be creating more unique entertainment options. So far, it's been a constant cycle of bar > restaurant > bar > brewery > restaurant. We need more entertainment options and variety...especially for families with young kids and teenagers. Hell, if you were a UC student and are under 21, aside from eating a restaurant you would have very little reason to go to OTR aside from some miscellaneous festivals at Washington Park . I understand why people want to have things like malls and movie theaters downtown, but IMO, those things will not be successful in Downtown Cincinnati. (At least not at this point in time.) Suburbanites in Cincinnati will not pay to park downtown to go to a mall or movie theater downtown when they can do those activities in the suburbs and get free parking. Let's keep downtown focused on unique things that you can't also get in the suburbs. I get that...I’m just basing this off how packed resturaunts are during the weekend and now more so in the days...I just think that we can have these families do more than visit the resturaunt and leave. Give them a reason to maybe eat at the Eagle, get some ice cream at greaters and head over to a mall type concept to shop. I feel like it would fit naturally.
May 12, 20187 yr Troy I don't think it's out of the question at all, I think it may be in a different form than a traditional mall, and I actually think it will probably work best in downtown proper like Race Street. Maybe that's pushing it and maybe it needs to happen in OTR, but like you say it seems like it would need to be in a bigger mixed use structure to bring the Apple Store downtown among others that you see at the Magnificant Mile. I also think we probably need to add about 5,000 more market rate apartments/condos downtown before it is viable for Apple. But maybe Apple can come out with a smaller format store at some point too.
May 12, 20187 yr I'm not sure I get all the poo-poo'ing of these crazy, fun ideas people have for places in OTR. I'm sure very few will be around for very long, but they're fun. If a building is getting fixed up it could be re-used with a different concept later. Why all the hate? "Someone is sitting in the shade today because someone planted a tree a long time ago." - Warren Buffett
May 12, 20187 yr True. I think it would do well if it was the anchor store of whatever will happen at the old Macy’s on fountain square. Would be awesome to have an all glass store with 20-25 floors of residential above . I think it would also get a lot of foot traffic from ppl who are visiting.
May 13, 20187 yr Axe throwing seems, on the surface, a lot more dangerous yet less entertaining than a shooting range. Maybe OTR could use one of those - it could even be in a brewery tunnel, perhaps prohibition themed.
May 18, 20187 yr So I noticed the green building on vine next to Kroger has a new sign with a bright red banner saying, “Coming Soon, 4K square feet space.” By 3cdc. I thought this rehab project wouldn’t be happening so soon by 3cdc, but I’m glad if it does!
May 18, 20187 yr A 3cdc puff piece: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/05/18/3cdc-shifting-its-mission-in-downtown-cincinnati.html
May 19, 20187 yr I made some diagrams for the OTR Kroger Block featuring a new east-west cross street and an underground garage. The block is quite large for OTR, 400' east-west and 350' north-south, so bisecting it with a cross street as jmecklenborg[/member] suggested would work rather well. A 40' wide street (enough for a two way with parking on one side and 6' sidewalks) could be added yielding a 150'x 400' block and a 160'x 400' block (for comparison the block of 14th, 15th, Republic and Vine is about 175' x 380', oriented in the other direction.) The new street could be named Turner Street in a nod to Turner Hall which used to stand on this block as cincity[/member] stated above. (14.5 Street could be an alternate name if you wanted to make it sound "high-tech" for start-ups.) A three bay, 180'x200' underground garage could fit in the middle of the block under the new street and two new office buildings. I estimate a this could fit about a hundred cars per level, so a three level garage would yield about 300 spaces. A new alley to 15th street could provide access from the garage to the new 3CDC office development on the corner and future development on 15th and Moore streets. There would be space along Walnut as well as on 15th for residential infill. Finally, there would also be space for a beer garden in back of Wielert's in a nod to the impact that establishment had on our city's history. (In my plan, I did not make it a huge space like it was historically, I think it would be rather risky to do that and compete against other establishments that are already providing outdoor beergarden-like space.) Thanks taestell[/member] for letting me use his pictures as a basis for these diagrams. Underground garage outline: Potential Infill: [/url] www.cincinnatiideas.com
May 19, 20187 yr ^That'd be awesome. Probably very expensive, and considering how hard it is to finance *above* ground parking garages, I'm not confident 3CDC (or anybody) would be able to convince a bank to finance the costs of an underground garage. So the City would have to find a way to foot the bill for the street and garage.
May 19, 20187 yr Bill, I love this idea, and actually love the 14.5 street name for the tech scene! Would be great for them to build this as you designed due to the sheer amount of extra office space it could add and would be perfect for tech / branding offices. That said like what jwulsin mentioned, probably guessing it would be too expensive but you never know if a rising company wants to build a mini-campus in the heart of the neighborhood this could be an option, especially if they got a tech company to move from San Fran or something, the cost would be tiny compared to what they pay already.
May 19, 20187 yr ^Bill, that's pretty much what I had in mind. I like the street name, too. Underground garages are more expensive than elevated ones, but 3CDC has already built two of them - one beneath Washington Park and the other at Ziegler.
May 19, 20187 yr The garage is on the smallish side so the construction cost per space would probably be high. If you flipped it 90 degrees, it’s longer so you may be able to fit more spaces, but then the entrances would get complicated as well as possibly having more complications supporting the buildings above (that’s my guess at least, I’m not that kind of engineer, but as pictured the garage columns would line up with the walls of the buildings for the most part.) They only have one shot at this block for the next 50-100 years, so might as well spend the money on an option that builds on the neighborhood’s natural scale and walkability by opening up the interior of the block. EDIT: another thing I like about it is there could be 4 other stand alone infill structures on the block that aren’t tied to the fate of the parking garage. That’s good for granularity. (As opposed to all the new buildings serving as parking garage wrap) www.cincinnatiideas.com
May 30, 20187 yr Piston Society is moving to 214 E Liberty (they are currently on Race St across from Taft's). Anything that activates a boarded up storefront (especially on Liberty) is a good thing. http://pistonsociety.com/we-are-moving/ I really hope somebody renovates the Teez Cafe building which is just two buildings away from where Piston Society is opening up. Would make for a cool bar/cafe.
May 30, 20187 yr Piston Society is moving to 214 E Liberty (they are currently on Race St across from Taft's). Anything that activates a boarded up storefront (especially on Liberty) is a good thing. http://pistonsociety.com/we-are-moving/ I really hope somebody renovates the Teez Cafe building which is just two buildings away from where Piston Society is opening up. Would make for a cool bar/cafe. Is that really a better location? I feel like most people who go to OTR are wary of crossing the Liberty Street border, that divides North Liberty and the gentrified portion of OTR. Crossing Liberty St, especially close to the shell at night, is one of the sketchiest places to be in all of Cincy IMO.
May 30, 20187 yr ^ I think that's outdated. Rhinegeist is filled constantly and the increasing number of restaurants around Findlay seem to be doing fine. And within a year there will be a lot of new development online. I mean, pleasant street alone is nearly complete from Liberty to Findlay, if you count the places currently under construction.
May 31, 20187 yr Piston Society is moving to 214 E Liberty (they are currently on Race St across from Taft's). Anything that activates a boarded up storefront (especially on Liberty) is a good thing. http://pistonsociety.com/we-are-moving/ I really hope somebody renovates the Teez Cafe building which is just two buildings away from where Piston Society is opening up. Would make for a cool bar/cafe. Is that really a better location? I feel like most people who go to OTR are wary of crossing the Liberty Street border, that divides North Liberty and the gentrified portion of OTR. Crossing Liberty St, especially close to the shell at night, is one of the sketchiest places to be in all of Cincy IMO. That is what people said about 12th and Vine as well back when Senate was getting started. This is how development in OTR goes. Since you frequently talk about wanting to get more retail in OTR, you should be happy when boarded up storefronts get renovated.
May 31, 20187 yr People seem to be more brazen these days in their willingness to walk around an unknown area. I think a lot of people are navigating to new restaurants and bars with their phones, both while driving and then while on foot, and they feel a sense of security from a phone's directions.
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