September 30, 20213 yr 2 hours ago, DEPACincy said: But the new parking garage is going to have many more spots than the lots provided. So it's still a net gain. And to continue to grow and succeed the market needs more people living nearby. Put a bunch of apartments on those lots and all of a sudden you have hundreds of new customers who can keep the merchants busy during the week when people are not driving in from Blue Ash and Montgomery. I agree with you that more people are more important for the long term viability of the neighborhood versus parking spaces. However, in raw numbers it's only about 200 more spaces as the Findlay West lot is going to be senior housing with no new parking. Existing Elder St/Logan West 42 spaces Elder St/Logan East 53 spaces Findlay West Lot 84 spaces TOTAL 179 Proposed County Garage (Elder St/Logan) 472 spaces (could be as low as 343 depending if Logan kept open) Urban Sites Senior Housing (Findlay West Lot) 0 spaces TOTAL 472 +293 spaces (however Model already has rights to ±100 of those, also not including those days when FCC has rights to the deck) If you redeveloped the Findlay North Lot (150 spaces) and Findlay South Lots (62 spaces) you end up with a net of around 0 assuming no parking is included in those developments.
September 30, 20213 yr 47 minutes ago, mcmicken said: If you redeveloped the Findlay North Lot (150 spaces) and Findlay South Lots (62 spaces) you end up with a net of around 0 assuming no parking is included in those developments. Here's the key part. It would be highly unlikely that the developments would include no parking. Besides, parking isn't really an issue at Findlay Market. When I drive there I never park in their lots. There's ample free street parking within a couple blocks in multiple directions.
September 30, 20213 yr 4 hours ago, Dev said: Having most of the attendance for one large event, park their cars immediately next to the venue, is a terrible idea. It places hundreds of cars on the road at the exact same time, which will never go well. It is more efficient to disperse the crowd in different directions by walking, biking or riding the streetcar to other lots and garages so the surge in traffic is easier to manage. This is more poor planning by the City and County. This isn't Europe or one of the few US cities that actually has good public transportation. Pretty much every stadium in the US has lots of parking around it and there are traffic jams before and after events. The streetcar isn't changing that for Cincy. And as already mentioned there is more parking needed north of Liberty if we want that area to actually develop and get more people living there. This isn't poor planning by the city and county. This garage is going to get used a ton.
September 30, 20213 yr I always take the bus to FC Cincinnati games and it works great. Our public transportation system actually works really well at getting people from outlying areas to Downtown/OTR. Plus, the idea that it is parking that spurs development and growth in urban neighborhoods is completely at odds with actual data and evidence. That's a hugely outdated and debunked mindset.
September 30, 20213 yr 1 minute ago, Cincy513 said: This isn't Europe or one of the few US cities that actually has good public transportation. I wasn't even referring to mass transit. Having all the parking next to stadiums is bad, regardless of transit access or the location of the facility. Just because it's normal doesn't mean it's a good system. Diffusing the parking across a large area is a great way to reduce the congestion. This was a great opportunity to do that and they missed. But since you brought up transit...for us to become a city with good mass transit again, we will have to make it less convenient to use a car for every trips, both the rare, special trips and the frequent, common ones. If you build more auto infrastructure, you hurt mass transit. It is a zero sum game. 4 minutes ago, Cincy513 said: And as already mentioned there is more parking needed north of Liberty if we want that area to actually develop and get more people living there. You can't build lots of housing for people if you build lots of storage for vehicles. The more parking you build, the more people who will drive into the neighborhood, pushing it out of reach for the people who actually live there.
September 30, 20213 yr It's a complicated calculation we need to make. There needs to be some convenient parking nearby or else Findlay Market is going to lose business. Residents are great, but if you build 100 apartments, you have 100 households shopping there. If you remove 100 parking spaces that get heavy usage from people outside of the walkable area around the market, you may be losing 100-200 customers every day. They may opt to go somewhere else closer to home (like a Kroger) if it isn't convenient enough to park. I think Findlay Market needs some parking dedicated to it. Hopefully we can redevelop those parking lots with a combination of new mixed use development and some structured (obviously underground is preferred) parking that can be partially dedicated to Findlay Market. Ideally any new developments in OTR forgo most of the typical dedicated parking and nudge people toward walking and taking public transit. Residents in Downtown/OTR need parking way less than Findlay Market needs it. I do think the new garage will be well utilized and hopefully can help lead toward the eventual removal of that parking lot north of Findlay Market. EDIT: and "convenient enough" parking does not mean that parking should take priority over everything else. Just that there needs to be a reasonable amount close to Findlay Market.
September 30, 20213 yr 56 minutes ago, ryanlammi said: It's a complicated calculation we need to make. There needs to be some convenient parking nearby or else Findlay Market is going to lose business. Residents are great, but if you build 100 apartments, you have 100 households shopping there. If you remove 100 parking spaces that get heavy usage from people outside of the walkable area around the market, you may be losing 100-200 customers every day. They may opt to go somewhere else closer to home (like a Kroger) if it isn't convenient enough to park. There was plenty more parking available nearby 20 years ago when the market was struggling to survive. Now it has 1.2 million visitors per year. The tradeoff also isn't 100 households vs. 100-200 customers daily. The vast majority of the parking spots in those lots sit empty five days per week. I was at Findlay Market yesterday and it was a ghost town. So you're trading parking spots that get utilized a few hours per week for families that will patronize the market potentially multiple times per week. The folks in the burbs who complain about parking aren't going to Findlay Market anyway. They're happy to go to their suburban Kroger. If you're the type to frequent Findlay Market you aren't going to be upset that you have to walk an extra half block on busy Saturdays because there isn't available parking right next to the market.
September 30, 20213 yr I never suggested parking is the only key to Findlay Market's success. The parking availability 20 years ago is not relevant IMO. I never claimed more parking will make Findlay Market more successful. There are plenty of people who go to Findlay regularly who don't live nearby. And there are people who would stop going frequently if parking becomes inconvenient. Again, I'm not saying we need to double the size of the parking lot around Findlay. But for them to get that north lot developed, they likely need to identify a permanent option for customers who drive in from Montgomery, Blue Ash, Covington, Westwood, etc. The new parking garage that's being constructed is going to be completely occupied by FC Cincinnati on most game days, which are often Saturdays, the busiest day for Findlay Market. Some other users might have priority to the spots over Findlay Market vendors and customers, too. I'm just saying that a permanent parking solution needs to be identified before Findlay Market is going to let that lot get developed.
October 1, 20213 yr Commuting by Public Transportation in the United States: 2019 APRIL 01, 2021 REPORT NUMBER ACS-48 MICHAEL BURROWS, CHARLYNN BURD, AND BRIAN MCKENZIE Introduction Download Commuting by Public Transportation in the United States: 2019 [PDF - <1.0 MB] Public transportation commuters constituted about 5 percent of all workers in the United States in 2019. Though public transportation was a relatively uncommon method of traveling to work in the United States as a whole, it played a prominent role in certain places. This report describes the status of public transportation commuting in the United States, beginning with the distribution of public transportation commuters across different transit modes, proceeding to summarize key geographic and demographic patterns, and concluding with a glimpse at historical trends in public transportation. Many families have 3 or 4 wage earners and that usually means 3 or 4 cars. some predict 10 billion people on earth by 2050. me thinks you are stuck with wide streets, traffic jams, lack of bike lanes, parking lots and garages for the foreseeable future.
October 1, 20213 yr 1 hour ago, RJohnson said: Many families have 3 or 4 wage earners and that usually means 3 or 4 cars. some predict 10 billion people on earth by 2050. me thinks you are stuck with wide streets, traffic jams, lack of bike lanes, parking lots and garages for the foreseeable future. Many families have three or four wage earners? What year is this? The average household size in Hamilton County is like 2.1 people and shrinking.
October 1, 20213 yr 12 hours ago, RJohnson said: some predict 10 billion people on earth by 2050. me thinks you are stuck with wide streets, traffic jams, lack of bike lanes, parking lots and garages for the foreseeable future. Honestly not sure if you are saying we should be happy with widen streets. Or if you're bemoaning the sad state of our politics, that you don't expect we'll be able to build a better future. Or if you're just being deliberately confusing to stir up a debate.
October 1, 20213 yr I disagree that the new garage will have parking spot shortages between FC Cincinnati fans and Findlay Market patrons. FC Cincinnati games are almost always in the evening, usually starting at 7:30pm. Findlay Market's prime business hours are in the late morning/early afternoon and it closes by 6pm. I'd be willing to bet that the average FCC fan doesn't arrive more than 2 hours before a game. There isn't going to be a large amount of competition for spots between these two uses of the garage. Edited October 1, 20213 yr by OliverHazardPerry
October 2, 20213 yr how about a ziggurat parking garage covered with solar panels. a creative architect could make this an icon. Edited October 2, 20213 yr by RJohnson left out word
October 4, 20213 yr Madtree Alcove has repainted Weilerts which looks great: Liberty and Elm has begun demolishing the old Boys and Girls club and site leveling has gotten more intense:
October 4, 20213 yr 1 hour ago, ucgrady said: Love the brickwork on Wilkommen so far: NIce to see some masonry skills like that!
October 6, 20213 yr And to reiterate, this $85m+ project proposes to be North of Liberty's largest mixed use development ever. Its economic development potential for Findlay Market vendors, local area spinoff business, blight removal, historic preservation, jobs and housing is transformational. Despite the project's successful completion of due diligence, a neighborhood development opponent has personally sued to delay construction.
October 6, 20213 yr That's a complete joke. I'm so sick of developments in this city getting help up by bogus red tape like this.
October 6, 20213 yr 1 hour ago, lumpy said: And to reiterate, this $85m+ project proposes to be North of Liberty's largest mixed use development ever. Its economic development potential for Findlay Market vendors, local area spinoff business, blight removal, historic preservation, jobs and housing is transformational. Despite the project's successful completion of due diligence, a neighborhood development opponent has personally sued to delay construction. Do you know what their reasoning for suing is? Can people grow up and realize they can’t always get what they want and suing someone just to delay it is idiotic and a waste of time for them and the developer.
October 7, 20213 yr On 10/6/2021 at 8:32 AM, Ucgrad2015 said: Do you know what their reasoning for suing is? Can people grow up and realize they can’t always get what they want and suing someone just to delay it is idiotic and a waste of time for them and the developer. Who sued and on what grounds? Is it an individual or an entity? Why hasn’t the media covered this?
October 8, 20213 yr The "personal" lawsuit is not really personal. Its OTR Adopt that spit in the punch bowl. The suit is A 2102984 and it is a zoning appeal. If anyone wants a copy of the complaint, I'll send it.
October 8, 20213 yr 3 hours ago, 1400 Sycamore said: The "personal" lawsuit is not really personal. Its OTR Adopt that spit in the punch bowl. The suit is A 2102984 and it is a zoning appeal. If anyone wants a copy of the complaint, I'll send it. how long will it take for it be dismissed by a judge lol
October 8, 20213 yr 4 hours ago, Troeros2 said: how long will it take for it be dismissed by a judge lol Uh, let's see . . . the defendnat filed its motion to dismiss on 9/27, and the plaintiffs have 20 days to respond, but everyone else gets 20 days, and the case is before legal scholar J. Heekin, . . . About a year.
October 8, 20213 yr (Pardon my lack of legal understanding...) but does this stop anything from happening on the site while this makes its way through courts and appeals? That could take months and months.
October 8, 20213 yr They are proceeding with demo already, so hopefully the are able to start on a separate foundation permit after that while awaiting the legal issues to be sorted out.
October 8, 20213 yr I do not understand why people would spend time, energy and money to try and keep this an empty lot (as opposed to housing, retail and jobs) when they have no standing.
October 8, 20213 yr 23 minutes ago, 1400 Sycamore said: I am puzzled by the whole OTR A.D.O.P.T. business model. Where does otr adopt even get the funding for the legal fees associated with these kind of lawsuits? In total this could end up costing tens of thousands of dollars…pretty crazy for a lawsuit you know you won’t even win regardless.
October 8, 20213 yr 8 hours ago, Troeros2 said: Where does otr adopt even get the funding for the legal fees associated with these kind of lawsuits? In total this could end up costing tens of thousands of dollars…pretty crazy for a lawsuit you know you won’t even win regardless. You are missing a decimal place. At KMK they have $500/hr people working on this usually a couple at a time. No idea what OTR Adopt is paying. Also, I want to add, that OTR Adopt will lose when the motion is converted to a summary judgment motion from a 12(b)(6) only because they failed to appeal the zoning decision in time. Not what one wants to go to the Court of Appeals on, in my opinion. If OTR would win that super narrow issue in the Court of Appeals it will end up being 2 years. And, the trouble is the financing, not the demolition. The lender won't close until the litigation if done. Again, IMO. Finally, OTR Adopt is pissing away donor money on this, not their own. Edited October 8, 20213 yr by 1400 Sycamore
October 11, 20213 yr On 10/8/2021 at 10:03 AM, 1400 Sycamore said: I am puzzled by the whole OTR A.D.O.P.T. business model. It’s basically a property flipper. For example, OTR ADOPT bought 1007 Dayton Street in 2017 for $26,000 and recently had it listed for $250,000. Not a bad business model. Edited October 11, 20213 yr by Miami-Erie OTR ADOPT owns the building, not Danny Klingler
October 12, 20213 yr Surprised no one has discussed the latest hcb packet…usually that gets brought up more but seems like y’all have been slacking lately lol. A few new otr infill projects in the latest packet including other projects…that said, the Jose Garcia east Liberty project is a doozy.
October 12, 20213 yr I personally like the Jose Garcia design. I think it's fun and very interesting and would dramatically change the feel of that corner (for the better). On the other hand the project (Item 7) on Race just north of Liberty has been downgraded from previous plans, and in a negative way IMO. I think the storefront treatment on the existing building is much worse than before, the new front door treatment on the new structure is weird, as is the brick treatment on the upper floor windows, and I'm disappointed that an entire floor was lopped off the original design of the new structure.
October 12, 20213 yr To anyone who doesn't want to scroll through 300+ pages here is the Jose Garcia designed Fotofocus building: I'm sure many will hate it, I personally really like the corbelled brick and marble 'viewfinder' on the corner but window design could use a little refinement. Some of the photos comparing it to the historic buildings/guidelines are kind of hilarious: Edited October 12, 20213 yr by ucgrady
October 12, 20213 yr 37 minutes ago, ucgrady said: To anyone who doesn't want to scroll through 300+ pages here is the Jose Garcia designed Fotofocus building: I'm sure many will hate it, I personally really like the corbelled brick and marble 'viewfinder' on the corner but window design could use a little refinement. Some of the photos comparing it to the historic buildings/guidelines are kind of hilarious: I’m all for it and think it’s looks great (much better than an ugly vacant lot) We need more modern design buildings throughout OTR.
October 12, 20213 yr I'm all for that corner. The majority of the facade is a solid brick wall, though. Maybe it won't be too bad, but I hate seeing all of that dead space. Especially going up Sycamore
October 12, 20213 yr Still not sure how it fits in the historic context of the neighborhood… people love to give fcc slack on their stadium looking out of place compared to its surroundings but I’m not sure why this alternatively gets so much praise. They both look equally look like alien spaceships compared to their historic surroundings.
October 12, 20213 yr 27 minutes ago, Troeros2 said: Still not sure how it fits in the historic context of the neighborhood… people love to give fcc slack on their stadium looking out of place compared to its surroundings but I’m not sure why this alternatively gets so much praise. They both look equally look like alien spaceships compared to their historic surroundings. I personally like them both.
October 12, 20213 yr 52 minutes ago, Troeros2 said: Still not sure how it fits in the historic context of the neighborhood… people love to give fcc slack on their stadium looking out of place compared to its surroundings but I’m not sure why this alternatively gets so much praise. They both look equally look like alien spaceships compared to their historic surroundings. Its a cool design but dont you worry Margy and her crazy crew will kill this project
October 12, 20213 yr 1 hour ago, Troeros2 said: Still not sure how it fits in the historic context of the neighborhood… people love to give fcc slack on their stadium looking out of place compared to its surroundings but I’m not sure why this alternatively gets so much praise. They both look equally look like alien spaceships compared to their historic surroundings. Personally I think on Liberty (and on Central in FCC's case) the notion of "fitting into the historic context" is kind of moot since the streets have seen so much change anyway. If this same building was proposed on Vine or Main I would be more critical of it, but on Liberty this kind of is the context if you look at buildings like the Franciscan Media building, Crossroads Health, Comey Shepard, Uptown Arts and especially the mid-century addition on United Church of Christ directly across the street from Fotofocus.
October 12, 20213 yr It is truly hideous. But, then, the Short Market it may replace was the Shell Station without the gas pumps. And, spending most of my awake hours about 200 feet from the location I can appreciate the difference. From a quality of life standpoint, it couldn't be a better neighbor.
October 13, 20213 yr 22 hours ago, Troeros2 said: Still not sure how it fits in the historic context of the neighborhood… people love to give fcc slack on their stadium looking out of place compared to its surroundings but I’m not sure why this alternatively gets so much praise. They both look equally look like alien spaceships compared to their historic surroundings. With the stadium and this building, the issue is likely one of scale...but also design. The buildings are different. Let's not equate them simply because they don't curtsy in the direction of the 19th century.
October 15, 20213 yr 1 hour ago, ucgrady said: They are putting down a strange 70s-ish pattern on the 14th street streetery. I like it! Better than asphalt!
October 15, 20213 yr 1 hour ago, ucgrady said: They are putting down a strange 70s-ish pattern on the 14th street streetery. beautiful! Reminds me of the Jamaican bobsled movie from the 90s! I hope they add more!
October 19, 20213 yr https://www.wcpo.com/news/transportation-development/move-up-cincinnati/residents-business-owners-set-out-to-transform-central-parkway?fbclid=IwAR0iaVnZQ7rdv4LtQO98xCXPOa9kZyhnescCj-UnnrftwN8mEe5u-3y_JZc European fountains and open plazas heading to central parkway.
October 19, 20213 yr 13 hours ago, Troeros2 said: https://www.wcpo.com/news/transportation-development/move-up-cincinnati/residents-business-owners-set-out-to-transform-central-parkway?fbclid=IwAR0iaVnZQ7rdv4LtQO98xCXPOa9kZyhnescCj-UnnrftwN8mEe5u-3y_JZc European fountains and open plazas heading to central parkway. $20 million dollars? Are they planning on airlifting marble fountains from Italy or something? Unless there's traffic calming included in that, I don't think any plaza or fountain on central parkway would be a tourist destination outside of sharing images of it. Any gathering area near a road eventually becomes a hotspot for attention seeking loud vehicles and reckless drivers sadly.
October 19, 20213 yr 3 minutes ago, RealAdamP said: Unless there's traffic calming included in that They are looking at completely rebuilding that stretch of Central Parkway, either maximizing the width of the sidewalks (my preference) or creating a large median.
October 19, 20213 yr What are European fountains? I'd settle for Kansas City fountains. I'm with above on the wider sidewalks on the edges of the parkway. There could and should be a green median, but it doesn't need to accommodate people. Give the space to buildings, not cars.
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