April 16, 200817 yr That would be a very very cool place to house lofts. Or maybe construct a similar or exact building right next door in that open lot.
April 16, 200817 yr Again, the problem has not been solved, gentrification will simply cause the drug sales/prostitution/burglary/robbery/theft and violence to become somebody else's problem. What is one neighborhoods gain is another's loss. It is the responsibility of each person, each street, each neighborhood to make that place the best that it can be. OTR is not in the business of dealing with the rehabilitation of people or to solve all of societies ills (although you would think it was with 108 social services in 110 blocks). It is to provide a safe and clean environment to its residents to live, work and play. I hear this all the time that just by moving them you aren't fixing the problem...since when did someones inablility to find a job or unwillingness to break a heroin addiction fall solely on the shoulders of OTR? The rest of the city has pushed these people into a community of containment, so we are now simply releasing them from that defacto prison that has been built for them over the past 40 years and we will do so unapologetically. To all of the neighborhoods who are "loosing" because of our efforts to clean our community, I say STEP UP! We are and why should we be faulted for the hard work and dedication of people who feel that one of the places that exist on the 10 most endangered historical places deserves better. We will do more, push harder, gain more ground day after day, year after year until OTR is THEE place that people want to live, not forced to live. Hi Michael, I agree with what you have to say. However your (and my) desire to keep the neighborhoods we live in safe, clean, etc. does not solve the problem. With the level of development that is occurring in OTR at the moment I expect that many of the homeless and the people selling drugs will move on. Stepping up will not solve these problems. Homeless individuals must have someplace where they can take shelter and receive other basic services. Somewhere along the way there have to be locations where these people settle down. A number of posts on this site take shots at people for having a NIMBY attitude. I have no problem with being a NIMBY. I do not want drug addicts and homeless people wandering the streets of my city (I also do not want a jail, sewage treatment plant, etc. nearby). I don't know anyone who does. My thought would be that many people who are homeless are able but cannot find a job and that most drug addicts would be quite willing to break their habit if the assistance was there that would allow them to do so. Also, since the major funding cuts in the Reagan era many mental health facilities were closed and the people that were in those facilities now live on the street. These people will not be finding jobs under pretty much any circumstance. The rest of our society does need to take care of those people. Until the basic issues of drug and alcohol abuse have been dealt with this problem cannot go away. Also, I believe part of the answer to these problems is to locate counseling and treatment centers along with homeless shelters in the vicinity of existing hospitals (that includes the suburban hospitals). This would allow the care of those addicted to be centered where medical treatment and counseling providers are nearby. I have no illusion about drug use outside of the urban core. It is rampant and something needs to be done. AA meetings are not all held in one neighborhood. They are in locations throughout the area. Something similar needs to be done for basic treatment - spread it around. Is part of the problem with 108 social service agencies in the area the financial means to relocate? With the smaller population I would think that the clientele of these agencies have to be coming from other parts of the city to receive services. It would seem to everyones benefit that these agencies do the same thing that many of their clients have done, move. Maybe they just don't have the money to do so? Just in case anyone wonders I am thrilled at the current transformation in Over-The-Rhine. I can remember the neighborhood when it was quite unsafe (but I still thought it was a neat place - if only I had taken photos back in the 70's!). I would like to live there however unlikely that is to actually occur. Hopefully the development will continue and be successful. Although more people are moving into the neighborhood I still wonder if there are enough folks out and about on the sidewalks that will allow the existing and proposed retail space to prosper. I think that most of us have been spoiled by the automobile and are a society of parking-lot loving people. Sincerely, Steve
April 17, 200817 yr oakie and hemroid, in case you haven't seen the pledge sites here they are: www.pledgebank.com/Over-the-Rhine www.pledgebank.com/1500Vine
April 17, 200817 yr You can view Channel 9's news story here: http://www.wcpo.com/mediacenter/[email protected]&navCatId=23 Hopefully it generates some interest.
April 17, 200817 yr Channel 9 did a piece on the endangered Meiners Building (1500 Vine) this evening. You can view their story here: http://www.wcpo.com/mediacenter/[email protected]&navCatId=23
April 17, 200817 yr keep the neighborhoods we live in safe, clean, etc. does not solve the problem. Here is where your idea of the problem diverges from mine. See, I believe that the safety and cleanliness is the problem. When I moved to OTR I never set out to cure all of the problems of everyone whether they need a job or trying to kick a drug problem. I wanted to first and foremost have a safe and clean neighborhood that I was proud to say I was a part of. That being the goal, it is easy to see the steps that are necessary to achieve it and those steps are well documented in this and other threads and hopefully evident through my actions and the actions of others. Do we need to revamp the mental health in this country, sure. But the fight to see OTR as an attraction that will draw people of all walks of life and create a feeling of safety, security and cleanliness to bring them back is a much more attainable, near term goal that I am fighting for. We get too caught up in the macro and say that until we completely change the United States policy on narcotics or mental health or homelessness and poverty that our efforts here in OTR are for not. Fight for those changes on a national level, but I will fight for the changes like making sure that our neighborhood is simply a neighborhood that we can all be proud of. There will still be poverty in the world, there will still be people who are mentally instable, there will still be alchoholics, drug abusers, child molesters, murderers, rapist, and every other ill you can possibly imagine, they just will not be here in OTR and that my friend is a start.
April 17, 200817 yr However your (and my) desire to keep the neighborhoods we live in safe, clean, etc. does not solve the problem. With the level of development that is occurring in OTR at the moment I expect that many of the homeless and the people selling drugs will move on. Stepping up will not solve these problems. Homeless individuals must have someplace where they can take shelter and receive other basic services. Somewhere along the way there have to be locations where these people settle down. Let me ask you this. You mentioned Price Hill and some other communities on the West Side of town being impacted by the development here in OTR by way of increased crime etc. Why are they going to these specific places? Why not some others? Not everyone is seeing a spike in crime or homeless people sleeping in the parks. Now why did places like OTR, the West End that were once thriving communities become the haven for poverty and crime beginning 40 plus years ago? Answer those two questions and I believe that you will hopefully come up with two very different answers. Much of the problems of crime, poverty, and the establishment of the regional capital for social services can be placed at the feet of government social policy that has since changed. These problems were forced on inner cities nation wide by an attempt to corral and contain social problems and then began the rise of the suburb. The issues today with the movement of some of the plight that you stated to specific communities is not because it is being forced there, but there is a vacuum for some reason. It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure out that there are a host of reasons that people are not just able, but choose to move to specific areas and feel a level of impunity when engaging in the same behavior that has historically been accepted to a degree in OTR. OTR has stepped up and said that we will no longer accept drug dealers on every corner. We have a citizenry that will no longer tolerate prostitution outside their front door. We have a group of people who simply say we will take a chance and invest in OTR and will rehab homes, volunteer time, donate money, and go way beyond what the average resident of any other of Cincinnati's 52 communities and say we live, eat and breath OTR. We are willing to give this type of commitment to our neighborhood and because of this a drug dealer or a prostitute no longer feels they can operate down here without being arrested in 5 minutes then where do they choose to go, and why? Someplace they feel safe. Someplace they feel they are not going to be confronted by an active and engaged group of people who drew the line in the sand and said no more. So once again, to all of the places who are "loosing" I say STEP UP! We did.
April 17, 200817 yr Cincinnati City Council Targets Liquor Permits Reported by: Jay Warren Photographed by: Jeremy Glover, Eric Clajus Web produced by: Neil Relyea The Cincinnati city council has brought the hammer down on eight bars and businesses in the city. Don's Corner Pub in Price Hill, First Note Cafe in Walnut Hills and N-and-M Mini Mart downtown are three business whose liquor permits were not renewed. "I want them to realize that a liquor license is a privilege," said council member Laketa Cole. Here is a link to where Martins is located in OTR. http://maps.google.com/maps?f=l&hl=en&q=martins+bar&jsv=107&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=49.490703,92.8125&ie=UTF8&cd=1&near=W+Mcmicken+Ave,+Cincinnati,+Hamilton,+Ohio+45202,+United+States&geocode=0,39.118330,-84.518950&ll=39.113596,-84.513423&spn=0.011937,0.022659&z=16&iwloc=A
April 17, 200817 yr 1132, Jordans (now at Circle A) and Chiefs are all in our sights now. One thing that I would like to do and this is something that Chris Zimmerman and I worked out for the Shell station is an agreement not to carry certain items otherwise the community would actively challenge their liquor lic.
April 18, 200817 yr 1132, Jordans (now at Circle A) and Chiefs are all in our sights now. One thing that I would like to do and this is something that Chris Zimmerman and I worked out for the Shell station is an agreement not to carry certain items otherwise the community would actively challenge their liquor lic. Like berry-flavored blunt wraps??? lol!
April 18, 200817 yr 1132, Jordans (now at Circle A) and Chiefs are all in our sights now. One thing that I would like to do and this is something that Chris Zimmerman and I worked out for the Shell station is an agreement not to carry certain items otherwise the community would actively challenge their liquor lic. Like berry-flavored blunt wraps??? lol! grape is my favorite! gotta stock up for this weekend! woot!
April 18, 200817 yr I play dirty. If I really wanted to see change I'd find out what liquor stores sell cigs and beer to underage. Teenagers learn quickly through their network of friends the places where they can get away with that. I would be finding that out. I'm not sure if that warrants them getting shut down but sanctions alone hurt the pocket book.
April 18, 200817 yr Is anyone else feeling these aftershocks? I'm freaking out. I'm up in Milwaukee, and the epicenter is Evansvill, IN. So I'm assuming that Cincy is feeling them too. Sorry, wrong thread. But I just needed to get say something.
April 18, 200817 yr I play dirty. If I really wanted to see change I'd find out what liquor stores sell cigs and beer to underage. Teenagers learn quickly through their network of friends the places where they can get away with that. I would be finding that out. I'm not sure if that warrants them getting shut down but sanctions alone hurt the pocket book. I think this is a step or two down the road. First, I would like to see the community engage these locations and try and work something out but if that doesn't work then I say no hold barred. At the same time we could install a camera like we did last year pointing at the entrance of Chiefs. Turn on the speakers on Ball Furniture South piping out some Opera over top Jordans, getting ambassadors on the ground and residents calling and complaining if they see anything even remotely suspicious.
April 18, 200817 yr Opera music WORKS! The DT library comes to mind.. The Larosas in College Hill blasts Frank Sinatra outside! (or they did).
April 20, 200817 yr That came out of a recomendation of the Mulberry/McMicken/Main Safety Sector after seeing its effectiveness at the Library.
May 2, 200817 yr I was at the corner of 12th and Vine yesterday when some woman started screaming about her car getting stolen. Meanwhile, the Q salespeople were trying to show some units to prospective buyers. It was like the show was put on for them. Come to find out the woman is from somewhere outside the city, down here with her husband....hmmm....wonder what they were doing....something shady that led to an unauthorized use of their car. Someone I was standing with yesterday said it the best, "well, we should go to her neighborhood and start screaming for the police in the middle of the street!" It's just a shame...
May 2, 200817 yr Cincinnati Restaurant investor gobbles up another Over-the-Rhine property BY LISA BIANK FASIG | CINCINNATI BUSINESS COURIER May 2, 2008 OVER-THE-RHINE - Restaurant investor Martin Wade has purchased another building on Walnut Street in Over-the-Rhine, further piecing together a block of properties that some say he will convert into a mixed-use district. Wade, who has invested north of $1.6 million in that block since September, purchased the two-story building and adjoining lot, at 1411 and 1415 Walnut St., in early April for $460,000. The seller is listed as the Urban Appalachian Council, according to records filed with Hamilton County Auditor Dusty Rhodes' office.
May 2, 200817 yr Hmm...The Urban Appilachian building is across Walnut street from his other purchases, and includes a large vacant lot, which backs up to Krogers and the Weilerts beer garden (1408-10 Vine) building which 3CDC recently purchased. The Urban Appilachian Council has an interesting history in OTR, and I think they still exist in Lower Price Hill.
May 2, 200817 yr That's great. Ya know, I think the absolute coolest building in ALL of downtown is that Schwart's place wayyyy up on the corner of Liberty and Vine. I think that's the intersection. You can see it when you come down the hill from Mad Frogs. It's a corner made place with cobblestone walls. It's friggin' rad looking. They need to do something with that place.
May 2, 200817 yr That is Ed Moss' place, though he is shut down temporarily while he tries to get a liquor permit: http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,8441.0.html
May 2, 200817 yr I just heard that Smitty's is consolidating down to one store front on Vine. There was more than one Smitty's? I'm only familiar with that Vine Street location.
May 2, 200817 yr ^ Ah. One storefront down from multiple storefronts, not locations. That makes sense then. Thanks.
May 2, 200817 yr Am I seeing things or are they building an elevator on the back of the new Duveneck Lofts?
May 3, 200817 yr Author If anyone wants to see my hope, dream and belief for what OTR can be in the near future, check out this SSP thread showing the transformation of Harlem over the last twenty years. It is an amazing change and has come from much further back than OTR needs to! http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=149448
May 3, 200817 yr ^So it's a little like the Washington Memorial I suppose, given the elevators inside? Just needs a menacing red light on top and some post cards for sale at the bottom. Oh, and a really long line.
May 3, 200817 yr Am I seeing things or are they building an elevator on the back of the new Duveneck Lofts? yes and it also anchors porches
May 5, 200817 yr ^That's a pretty amazing difference. Most of the pictures show very positive positive changes. There are a few examples of what not to do, though. For example, the pictures of the run down but gorgeous old apartment building that became the glass and aluminum Levitz Furniture store. Yuck. Overall though, a massive amount of change for the better. Thanks for posting that!
May 7, 200817 yr At the end of Vine right at Liberty, the ground is being cleared...what are they building there? its in between two buildings.
May 8, 200817 yr That was where the Empire Theater collapsed. It looks like they are putting in a parking lot.
May 9, 200817 yr Speaking of Vine and Liberty... There are new updates in the effort to save 1500 Vine (Meiner Flats building) Checkout www.meinerflats.blogspot.com for the latest. This is now the official website for the 1500 Vine preservation effort. We are currently attempting to collect pledges from those who made them. This is a very critical time for the building. Your support and any other interest you can generate is much appreciated.
May 9, 200817 yr Demolition gets Cincinnati Freestore closer to its new space BY JON NEWBERRY | CINCINNATI BUSINESS COURIER May 9, 2008 OVER-THE-RHINE - FreestoreFoodbank has torn down a vacant office building at 12th and Central Parkway to make way for a new facility to house its administrative offices and give its Cincinnati Cooks! culinary training program and catering service a permanent home in which to grow. The Cincinnati-based nonprofit has raised a little more than $11 million of a targeted $14.5 million capital campaign launched early last year. That includes $2 million in pledges from members of its board of trustees, said CEO John Young. The site was donated by Jeff and Darlene Anderson of Jeffrey R. Anderson Real Estate Inc.
May 9, 200817 yr It wasn't a great building. And it is in the West End. I hope this keeps the Free Store from tearing down the buildings near their HQ.
May 9, 200817 yr It wasn't a great building. And it is in the West End. I hope this keeps the Free Store from tearing down the buildings near their HQ. That is somewhat reassuring.
May 9, 200817 yr This expansion of there chef training program is totally unrelated to the proposed teardown on Walnut Street which is to facilitate semi-trailers loading of food.
May 9, 200817 yr I don't know if this got posted before, but the only building Freestore is tearing down near the Liberty St location is 104 Corwine. The huge groundswell of community opposition at the HCB was influential in saving three historic buildings from becoming parking lots. It still sucks that we're losing the Corwine building though, as it will destroy the interior of a unique city block.
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