^1132 and the ones I mentioned above are destination problems.  In that I mean that each draws all of the negative elements including public intoxication, drug sales and buys, loitering, and all of the perceptions that goes along with each of those realities into one concentrated place.  If we can close the destinations it doesn't get rid of the people causing the problem, but at least it disperses it.

 

Take each of the problem areas in OTR right now.  Corner of 12 and Race, Corner of E. Clifton and Lang, Corner of 12 and Main, Corner of McMicken and Walnut, and formerly on Vine and I am going to say 15th. First you have 1132 Bar, Chiefs, Jordans, Martin's Bar, Cricket Store (which has now moved to Main and 14th).  There is a direct correlation between the crime and the business that enables the crime by way of providing a destination and safehaven.

 

 

As of August 30, Martins (111 East McMicken) will close permanently. 

 

The owner signed an agreement with the city and CPD today to close permanently, sell or transfer the liquor license, and that the license cannot be used in OTR or the West End.  This is a huge win for that part of the neighborhood, and is another great example of citizens and the city working together.

For anyone is interested, Switch is going in on Vine St.  It remains to be seen what is going in on 12th St next to Mica.  Word on the street is that they just may be finishing it in an attempt to rent it out.  Everybody seems to be pretty tight lipped.

nice!

I assume that they were a source of trouble?

 

Martins.

I assume that they were a source of trouble?

 

Martins.

 

Everything from litter to loud noise to shootings.

 

They are were probably one of the worst bars left in OTR.  There were a number of articles earlier in this thread around the time of the council hearings in April.

It's good to see the city taking a pooper scooper and using it wisely.

What is going in next to the sales office along 12th Street on the south side? There were a lot of people working around it on Saturday, moving things in. Streetview.

Students moving in to Art Academy housing maybe?  They live above the sales center.

The Art Academy moving downtown was such a bold and awesome move.  Kudos.

Yeah it was all of the art academy students.  It's really nice to have some new faces on 12th.  Particularly when they are all hanging out outside.  More eyes on the street and more positive activity in the area.  Love it.

A quick MLS search shows that 6 of 9 units in Trideca are already sold.  That's great!

Yup, and the building isn't even finished yet.  That building is amazing...the floorplans for each unit are unique and offer very cool layouts not seen in most projects.

I was peeking in the windows of the available restaurant space in Duveneck. Man, what a cool spot. I really wish somebody would move in there. It's separated into two sections by a brick wall with an arched doorway. One side could be the bar, the other the dining room. It would be amazing. Throw a plasma up over the bar and I would have a new home.

 

I really hope somebody does something there relatively soon. It's THE coolest space.

Anyone have pics of Trideca? I havent been to OTR in a few weeks. 

I was peeking in the windows of the available restaurant space in Duveneck.  Man, what a cool spot.  I really wish somebody would move in there.  It's separated into two sections by a brick wall with an arched doorway.  One side could be the bar, the other the dining room.  It would be amazing.  Throw a plasma up over the bar and I would have a new home.

 

I really hope somebody does something there relatively soon.  It's THE coolest space.

 

Before the do anything, they need to get the Noise Issue squared away with the residents above.  Currently, there are rumors circulating of a Duveneck Flats rebellion due to poor sound insulation.  Supposedly it is being addressed.

^Yes, from my understanding, that is part of the delay with anything there.  Sound issues and ventilation issues, for a potential restaurant, are being worked out.

That's too bad.

 

I mean with any old building there will be noise issues, but when you are buying an expensive piece of real estate, all measures should be taken to reduce noise not only from your neighbors, but from any retail.

 

Regardless, I hope at some point, we have a new restaurant in the area. 

Inside Harkavy Hall

http://www.building-cincinnati.com/2008/08/inside-harkavy-hall.html

 

Harkavy Hall, a Tender Mercies building at 24 W 12th Street in Over-the-Rhine, is in the midst of a $4 million rehabilitation project that will increase the building's usable space, add all new mechanicals (including air conditioning), and bring the building up to code and ADA compliance by installing two new sets of fireproof stairs and a new elevator.

 

All of these improvements will make life better for residents of the building's 30 single-room occupancy units.

 

The historic façade, which has been covered up for at least 50 years, will be restored, and a new courtyard will be built on the west side of the building.

 

The project is targeted for a May 2009 completion date.

 

On August 8, Tender Mercies CEO Bren Blaine and Roger Robinson of Avila Architects treated me to a tour of the construction site.

 

Demolition is largely completed, with the mechanicals having been stripped, some walls removed, and much of the plaster now gone.

 

Several back windows have been removed to allow for doorways to be cut for a new staircase, and several more have recently been sealed.

 

Some of the floors are unfinished due to warped joists.

 

The tour starts on the first floor and moves up to the third floor, then to an attic that is currently being used as a construction office.

 

The tour concludes with some shots of the basement, dirt floors and all. (No, those are not graves.)

 

***Slideshow can be viewed through article link above***

I'm sort of torn on this whole issue.  While I'm not against the mission or purpose of Tender Mercies, I am somewhat concerned with some of the people who "hang out" around their buildings.  I understand the people that live there have every right to enjoy their outdoor space and are generally harmless, but I have seen more than a few altercations between them and fools wandering down from the park. 

 

I'm not sure what exactly the solution is, whether it be more staffing or better policing and control of Washington Park (more likely the better of the two options).  I guess I hope that bringing 30 more people into the half block that they dominate won't increase the number of emergency services calls (if thats even possible) or lead to more loitering and outbursts on 12th street.

 

 

I think the problematic things you mentioned are more than likely caused by the Drop In Center across the street...not really the Tender Mercies people.

Well the Drop in center isn't exactly across the street, but yes, most of the altercations probably involve people who stay in the park or at the drop in.  However, also include people who stay at Tender Mercies.

 

I'm just thinking that with 30 more people right in the same area (many of whom will be loitering outside half the time), there are bound to be more problems with the drop-in/washington park passers by.

 

On another note, I wish that someone with the city would figure out how much money it costs to continuously send EMT/Fire to Washinngton park every day, and instead use that money to enforce laws and codes in and around the park. 

One thing about Harkavy Hall is that it's a SRO, so people aren't turned out into the streets on a daily basis.  The building will also contain common areas and an outdoor courtyard for people to hang out.

 

Most of these folks are mentally ill and not particularly dangerous.

 

Tender Mercies' main problem is in the alleyway directly across the street.  They're trying to get it closed because of all of the drug sales and use, prostitution, and defecation back behind the dumpster there.

 

Tender Mercies' main problem is in the alleyway directly across the street.  They're trying to get it closed because of all of the drug sales and use, prostitution, and defecation back behind the dumpster there.

  Yea lets close all the alleys in OTR and public stairways up our hillsides because only bad people use these "avenues of crime"  :-P better yet lets make all of OTR a giant fenced in area with a gate and an access code.

We need William Banks:)

Yeah, I don't know how hard it would be to hire somebody to keep folks out of there.  That certainly seems better than closing off access for everyone.

It's not like they're simply blocking off the alleys for all people like they are the stairways.  The alleys are just being made private for those who actually need to use them for a functional purpose.  I don't see the harm in that.

I still think people need to get creative with alleyways.  We see it a lot when an abandoned lot is turned into a garden or playground.  Obviously there's not much room in an alley.  But wouldn't it be cool to see murals or something depicting cool scenes on the walls of an alley?  There's so damn many in OTR that I think we could have a one of a kind place for that.

better yet lets make all of OTR a giant fenced in area with a gate and an access code.

 

The alleys are just being made private for those who actually need to use them for a functional purpose.  What's wrong with using them for the purpose of transportation???  I walk them and ride my scooter on them daily.

 

Nothing irks me more about OTR then when some douche blocks an alley with his car or is blocked off by a fence/wall/dumpster etc.  Keep the alleys clear. 

I drove down Jail Alley, between Main and Sycamore. Is it open for vehicles? Because as I drove west, there was no curb cut at Main and no signal, so I just had to jump the curb and drive off. The looks from drivers was amazing.

Nothing irks me more about OTR then when some douche blocks an alley with his car or is blocked off by a fence/wall/dumpster etc.  Keep the alleys clear.

 

Care to explain why this irks you so much.  Alleys serve a purpose, and that purpose is to serve those buildings that have rear access to the alley.  If that purpose is preserved, then what is the harm.  Alleys are dark, hidden places that have long been spots of trouble for law enforcement and crime.  I just tend to think that it is a really good idea for the city to allow these sorts of things to happen...unless of course I am missing something.  Please explain...I am legitimately interested in your position.

The width mixed with the heights of the buildings is critical.  Comer and Baldwin Alleys are only 10' wide measured from building to building, and the curbs are only 8' apart.  That may be ok when there are 1-2 story buildings facing them, but when they only have exhaust and garbage outlets on 4-5 storie buildings, they get pretty miserable.  I have seen creative uses of alleys in other cities, basically making them pedestrian thouroghfares, and that is great, but the crap that went on behind my house in the alley was a real crime problem. 

 

Keep in mind that if gates are installed, the city usually still owns the ROW and they can revoke the gate permit at anytime.  Also, if the fire department needs to get there, and doesn't have a key, they will smash them.

I don't want to get off topic here but since the Alleys and lots in and around the Gateway quarter are being turned into a West Chester like Gated community this is relevant.

Care to explain why this irks you so much.  Alleys serve a purpose, and that purpose is to serve those buildings that have rear access to the alley

I currently own 2 properties with an alley behind them.  Sometimes people block  me in when I am about to leave for work. Kinda sucks when you can't get out.

Care to explain why this irks you so much.  Alleys serve a purpose, and that purpose is to serve those buildings that have rear access to the alley

I currently own 2 properties with an alley behind them.  Sometimes people block  me in when I am about to leave for work. Kinda sucks when you can't get out.

 

Yes, but if your alleys were closed off and only those who have property access to it were able to utilize them then what would be the harm?  The only purpose I see for alleys besides their functional purpose(s) is for a cut-through (pedestrians/bicyclists) and for those who are looking to do things out of plain sight.  Cincinnati's alleys are not set up like Philly's where you can have functional uses there...ours are there for trash, service, and access for property owners along the alley.

Alleys and lots in and around the Gateway quarter are being turned into a West Chester like Gated community

Consider this, Centenial Row on Race.  Great condos but everytime someone is taken to the back deck that overlooks the alley behind it that runs perpendicular to 12th, a drug deal is occuring, someone is relieving themeselves, or getting the daily nooner right there in the alley.  Centenial is sitting there empty for just this reason so what should 3CDC do?  Leave the alley open and just let Centenial go vacant?  Give up on Centenial entirely?  Or close the alley and allow these buildings a chance to be sold and to further the redevelopment around Washington Park?  I say the latter. Do you disagree?

Consider this, Centenial Row on Race.  Great condos but everytime someone is taken to the back deck that overlooks the alley behind it that runs perpendicular to 12th, a drug deal is occuring, someone is relieving themeselves, or getting the daily nooner right there in the alley

765-1212

 

I will post some pics later of a few "private Alleys" AKA (the WC gated communties) and what happens to the surrounding properties that turn into the dead zones.

Short of posting a 24 hour officer there, I don't think that will help.  I too can post some pics and some stats to what happens to not just alleys, but entire neighborhoods when no action is taken to curb a problem like we have in some alleys.  Be upset with the people who abuse the alleyways and stairways, be upset with rampant crime and vagrancy that occurs there, be upset with the real reason that actions like closing an alleyway is occuring, and not with those who are simply trying to help solve the problem.

 

"private Alleys" AKA (the WC gated communties) and what happens to the surrounding properties that turn into the dead zones.

Are you suggesting that West Chester gated communities have anything in common with alleyways in OTR?

I will post some pics later of a few "private Alleys" AKA (the WC gated communities) and what happens to the surrounding properties that turn into the dead zones.

 

The surrounding properties vary greatly for each particular case, but overall I think that it makes the area look more attractive and gives off a greater perception of safety in the area.  If the alleys were blocked off with chainlink fencing and barbed wire then it would be bad, but these have been tastefully done and add value to the area if you ask me.

 

I'm still curious as to what your opposition to them is?  Is it what they represent, the blockage of a pedestrian/bicyclist cut-through, what?  I just don't see how the negatives outweigh the positives in this scenario, but I will gladly stand corrected if you convince me otherwise.

Alleys are some of the best ways to get around a neighborhood.  People are too damn lazy to walk around the block.  People just need to suck it up and quit being such a whino and walk through them.  The more people walking through the less crime etc.  No different then having more pedestrians on a crime ridden street.  All you need is strong lighting and people.

That is an extremely unhelpful comment Hemroid. I have little desire to walk through alleys in my neighborhood where drug deals go down, where the homeless are relieving themselves. Purposely gating little-used alleys for the residents -- using decorative wrought iron fencing, for example -- would be a decorative touch and would allow the alleys to be regained by the residents, not drug dealers or the homeless.

People just need to suck it up and quit being such a whino and walk through them.  The more people walking through the less crime etc.  No different then having more pedestrians on a crime ridden street.  All you need is strong lighting and people.

I am going to go out a limb here and agree with you.  But first things first...people.  We have to get people in the area first and then we can reopen everything.  As it stands now, a lot of what goes on in the alleys are deal killers and the people you are talking about never materialize in our neighborhood.  Eyes in the windows and feet on the street is however in the long run what eliminates these problems but lets do what it takes in the short run to get them there.

You won't believe this but I just saw a bum taking a leak on the outside of  private residence barricade AKA (WC gated community) in Pendleton.  Good for him!  I hate those things too. I normally call the cops but I didn't in protest of the closed alley.  :wink:

 

I have little desire to walk through alleys in my neighborhood where drug deals go down, where the homeless are relieving themselves

.

This happens on Main st all the time ,right in front or in the vicinity of the circle K market. should we close main st?

I take Goetz Alley behind Main all the time so I don't have to deal with the dealers and loiterers  in the Main st entertainment district.

 

 

^Are you ever going to answer my question?

I'm still curious as to what your opposition to them is?  Is it what they represent, the blockage of a pedestrian/bicyclist cut-through, what?

 

Sorry but I love OTR, I love it's long history, it's people , it's streets, stairways and  alleys.  I don't like the fact that some noob's with $$ in their eyes are coming in and changing what was made right the first time. OTR is one of the most walkable neighborhoods in our great city for a reason.

The n00bs have done more with OTR than any other developer in the past in terms of actually adding critical mass, population and vibrance -- and decreasing crime in the process. I don't see drug dealers and homeless people in alleys and street corners adding to that, do you?

I'm still curious as to what your opposition to them is?  Is it what they represent, the blockage of a pedestrian/bicyclist cut-through, what?

 

Sorry but I love OTR, I love it's long history, it's people , it's streets, stairways and  alleys.  I don't like the fact that some noob's with $$ in their eyes are coming in and changing what was made right the first time. OTR is one of the most walkable neighborhoods in our great city for a reason.

 

But alleys are meant to serve those properties that have access to them.  This could be for trash collection, service access, or vehicular access.  Those purposes aren't being limited by doing this.  It's a different ballgame from the stairways, because those are being closed off to all use, and eliminating their functional purpose...this is not the case with these alleys.

 

OTR is so walkable because of its small block sizes, human scale, mixed-use functionality, and overall minimal danger posed by vehicles.  I don't see a strong connection between alleys being open as cut-throughs as making OTR more or less walkable.

Posted by: UncleRando

OTR is so walkable because of its small block sizes, human scale, mixed-use functionality, and overall minimal danger posed by vehicles.  I don't see a strong connection between alleys being open as cut-throughs as making OTR more or less walkable

 

You may have never seen this?

 

The 2002 OTR Plan recommended preservation of alleys as an important part of the pedestrian network. 3CDC should work to include community stakeholders and OTR council in discussions of this implementation plan.

 

Go to page 4 under Pedestrian circulation

http://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/cdap/downloads/cdap_pdf3648.pdf

 

 

 

 

UncleRando != 3CDC. While 3CDC recommended that, it doesn't have to be engraved into stone for an eternity.

UncleRando != 3CDC

  :-o  Hopefully he doesn't run off and become the new CEO of Citylink.

 

For you Sub-urbanists,  this is a good read.

 

Urban Fear: Building the Fortress City

Setha M. Low

City University of New York.

 

Currently one third of all new homes built in the United States are in gated residential developments, and eight million people already live in such communities. Secured neighborhoods are a logical extension of social and political processes producing the built environment of the late-capitalist city. Although walled and fortified communities are not new, these recent developments are private rather than public, and are exclusively residential. Fortress–like, that is, walled, gated and guarded communities encode fear—materially, not just metaphorically—producing a literal landscape of fear. The study is based upon interviews with residents from gated developments in Los Angeles, New York and San Antonio.

 

 

 

Some how there has to be a middle ground here. I understand that the alleys are an integral part of OTR and that eliminating them would change the neighborhood for the worse, however when you are trying to take back a neighborhood sometimes you have to change the environment for a time. If OTR was full and those alleys were regularly in use by many local residents then I'd say you are on firm ground, but as it is a couple of unfortunate rapes in one of those alleys and it will go bust again. There is absolutely nothing inevitable about its recovery - see the early 80s and again the early 00s. If closing a couple alley ways for a time will allow for development to move forward, then I'm for it. I don't want to see the city lose the ROW because the could be very valuable in days to come.

Well, I'm not for sure you can equate gated communities and walled fortresses to a gated alley. What if other alternatives are proposed? Increased lighting would be a great start, along with keeping the alleys tidy for starters.

 

I walk by Clay daily, and although it's not alley, it damn well represents one. Garbage from the dumpster next to my apartment building is constantly in the street. I had no idea how it got out until I passed by three homeless people digging through and literally throwing items out onto the street for no reason.

 

I've seen two drug deals go down at Clay and 12th (and reported both). It's in a fairly unlit area -- making it more visible would be a great start.