IIRC, Joseph Williams had a small sign on the corner. It should have a larger, more proper sign that is not only visible to pedestrians, but to the cars that pass by that intersection. This might be a separate issue, but I have a fondness of the larger, more visible signs of the past - even if some of them were tacky. There should be standards and guidelines, but not restrictions that stifle visibility.

 

For what its worth, it's one of the reasons that Subway located in the parking garage. It's not a high traffic location, but the leases there were far, far lower than anywhere else on Main or Vine streets that were controlled by 3CDC. You might have more traffic on those two streets, but not enough to make up for the low profit margins that a Subway franchise already has.

I could be wrong, but the way I saw the story is that it really sucks for Joseph Williams, because it is a cool store, and it sucks to be priced out of your place.  But at the same time, could it mean that the demand is increasing enough that 3CDC is raising the rent to reflect that?  If so, that is a good thing, because it shows the demand for space is increasing in OTR.  What needs to happen is for more private developers to come in and start developing more so that the supply of useable space increases, which would level everything out.  I really wonder if it could be that simple, 3CDC can only move so fast in terms of redeveloping, and this limits the supply.  You can't really fault them too much though for wanting more money, because this in turn helps them with developing more properties.  It's not like they are just a straight up landlord jacking up the prices for sheer profit.

As a tour guide in Over-the-Rhine, I've seen the number of out of town tourists soar in the past year.  I was giving a tour about 4 weeks ago and a family of 9 was visiting from Perth, Australia.  They said they came to Cincinnati to see Over-the-Rhine.  I was blown away.

 

The point of my post is to say that there are very large forces working to make sure that Over-the-Rhine becomes a tourist destination.  Think of the French Quarter with a German twist.  3CDC stopped supporting places like Joseph Williams because those places catered to the Urban Pioneers that bought the first round of condos.  Now they're working to populate the neighborhood with entertainment destinations for tourists and the former Mt Adams bar crowd.  I think it's actually a pretty solid plan.  Heritage tourism is a big-money global industry and we're poised to be THE historic destination in the Midwest.  No other city has a collection of buildings like ours. 

 

I feel bad that Joseph Williams won't be able to stay in their location, but it seems like they'll do well in Oakley.  I'm looking forward to seeing more growth in OTR as rehabs push North of Liberty.

That's interesting you say that because I've always noticed that connection between us and new Orleans. They have the Mississippi, we have the Ohio. They have the French quarte we have over the Rhine. They have mardi gras we have Oktoberfest. They have a streetcar we have.... We're working on that last part.

That's a really good point about the plan to become a huge tourist destination.  I hadn't thought about that, but it seems to make a lot of sense.  Which is a tourist more likely to go to, a restaurant or a furniture store?  Definitely the restaurant.

Cincinnati has an extra hurdle to overcome compared to those other cities though.  Unlike Charleston, Savannah, or New Orleans, Cincinnati doesn't have the warm winters, nearby beaches, famous golf courses, party/music atmosphere, or unique culinary experiences (sorry but Skyline won't cut it) that they do.  There needs to be something else to fall back on to make the trip worthwhile to people who have spouses or kids that aren't interested enough in the architecture to make a whole trip out of it.  The other architectural tourist destinations that don't have those things make up for it by being very large cities with the kinds of destinations (museums, shopping, historical sites of national interest, etc.) that draw lots of tourists on their own, like Philadelphia, Boston, Chicago, and San Francisco. 

Cincinnati has an extra hurdle to overcome compared to those other cities though.  Unlike Charleston, Savannah, or New Orleans, Cincinnati doesn't have the warm winters, nearby beaches, famous golf courses, party/music atmosphere, or unique culinary experiences (sorry but Skyline won't cut it) that they do.  There needs to be something else to fall back on to make the trip worthwhile to people who have spouses or kids that aren't interested enough in the architecture to make a whole trip out of it.  The other architectural tourist destinations that don't have those things make up for it by being very large cities with the kinds of destinations (museums, shopping, historical sites of national interest, etc.) that draw lots of tourists on their own, like Philadelphia, Boston, Chicago, and San Francisco. 

 

However unlike Charleston, Savannah or New Orleans we have metros of (roughly) 1 million an hour north 2 million 90 minutes northeast, 1 million an hour south 2 million 90 minutes southwest and 2 million 90 minutes northwest.

 

 

^ So you're saying we could position ourselves more as a regional destination, rather than a national one? That sounds more likely, in my opinion for the very reasons that jjakucyk laid out.  Other than some hardcore architecture fanatics, do we really think that people will book trips to Cincinnati just to see one, relatively small neighborhood? I don't think people do that for even the larger tourist destinations like Charleston, New Orleans, or Savannah.  The architecture is part of what creates the charm and the lasting impression on people, but each of those cities have other features that serve as primary draws.  Weather, beaches, distinct local cultures, food, and history primarily form the foundation for tourism in these cities.

 

What I think Cincinnati could be on the brink of, is creating a little mini San Francisco in the basin and core urban neighborhoods.  The SF peninsula is only something like 50 square miles, and of that, maybe a third is what non-locals typically think of when they picture San Francisco.  The super dense, amenity rich, picturesque neighborhoods that form the heart of 'The City" as it's referred to in the Bay Area form the image of SF, and paint a picture of a complete and very livable city, that is appealing for visitors.  We could do the same with Downtown, OTR, Covington, Mt. Adams, Walnut Hills, Mt. Auburn, and the Uptown area. Create an area that is well served by transit, is built up to its full potential, and is super active for most hours of the day, and at the very least, we will have created a firm urban foundation for the region to brag about.  Even if it just results in regional differentiation, our central location allows Cincinnati to gain exposure to a lot of people who are largely are unfamiliar with dynamic urban environments. 

The only issue I have with the San Francisco example is that it's not an affordable city. Because of its super reclusive development patterns, it can hardly match the number of units needed now or in the future with what is in the pipeline because of an over restrictive government. It's a city gone horribly wrong in some respects. Via The Atlantic Cities

Cincinnati has an extra hurdle to overcome compared to those other cities though.  Unlike Charleston, Savannah, or New Orleans, Cincinnati doesn't have the warm winters, nearby beaches, famous golf courses, party/music atmosphere, or unique culinary experiences (sorry but Skyline won't cut it) that they do.  There needs to be something else to fall back on to make the trip worthwhile to people who have spouses or kids that aren't interested enough in the architecture to make a whole trip out of it.  The other architectural tourist destinations that don't have those things make up for it by being very large cities with the kinds of destinations (museums, shopping, historical sites of national interest, etc.) that draw lots of tourists on their own, like Philadelphia, Boston, Chicago, and San Francisco. 

 

I believed this as well until I went to Edinburgh, UK this past summer. Scotland weather is quite disgusting, but this city has leveraged its intact historic urban fabric (no WWII bombing) and cultural heritage to be one of the most beautiful urban destinations I've ever been to. Londoners can get cheap flights to Spain to go to the beach, but they still go to Edinburgh for its cultural assets. Of course your assertions are true, Cincinnati is at a disadvantage, but it also has many advantages. Edinburgh just reinforced the importance of OTR to Cincinnati's value.

I could be wrong, but the way I saw the story is that it really sucks for Joseph Williams, because it is a cool store, and it sucks to be priced out of your place.  But at the same time, could it mean that the demand is increasing enough that 3CDC is raising the rent to reflect that? 

If so, that is a good thing, because it shows the demand for space is increasing in OTR.  What needs to happen is for more private developers to come in and start developing more so that the supply of useable space increases, which would level everything out.  I really wonder if it could be that simple, 3CDC can only move so fast in terms of redeveloping, and this limits the supply.  You can't really fault them too much though for wanting more money, because this in turn helps them with developing more properties.  It's not like they are just a straight up landlord jacking up the prices for sheer profit.

 

This kind of begs the question then, when are smallish national retailers going to invade OTR/Downtown on a bigger scale.  I mean its inevitable and I've wondered when its going to start taking hold...

 

I believed this as well until I went to Edinburgh, UK this past summer. Scotland weather is quite disgusting, but this city has leveraged its intact historic urban fabric (no WWII bombing) and cultural heritage to be one of the most beautiful urban destinations I've ever been to. Londoners can get cheap flights to Spain to go to the beach, but they still go to Edinburgh for its cultural assets. Of course your assertions are true, Cincinnati is at a disadvantage, but it also has many advantages. Edinburgh just reinforced the importance of OTR to Cincinnati's value.

 

This.  Completely this.  Cincinnati has way too many cool hidden assets (not only is there OTR itself, but the beer tunnels underneath, a growing scene of breweries clustered together in the brewery district - for instance rhiengeist doesn't sell special beer particularly for those who've traveled to the west coast, but I'd be hard pressed to find a cooler space for a brewery anywhere ;) ).  Open up the damn subway to more than just a yearly trip and continue offering tours of the old beer tunnels.  These are assets Cincinnatians should be bragging about and its criminal that until recently they were just lying fallow.

 

The zoo (a really good one for a city Cincy's size) and Kings Island (which attracts people from all over the country btw - I know people in Chicago who went there) as well as the Aquarium in Newport (one of the best I've been to and I've been to a lot of different places) are plenty of other options for people who aren't enamored of the architectural heritage.  Cincinnati should stop being sheepish and really get aggressive about promoting its assets.

 

What I think Cincinnati could be on the brink of, is creating a little mini San Francisco in the basin and core urban neighborhoods.  The SF peninsula is only something like 50 square miles, and of that, maybe a third is what non-locals typically think of when they picture San Francisco.  The super dense, amenity rich, picturesque neighborhoods that form the heart of 'The City" as it's referred to in the Bay Area form the image of SF, and paint a picture of a complete and very livable city, that is appealing for visitors.  We could do the same with Downtown, OTR, Covington, Mt. Adams, Walnut Hills, Mt. Auburn, and the Uptown area. Create an area that is well served by transit, is built up to its full potential, and is super active for most hours of the day, and at the very least, we will have created a firm urban foundation for the region to brag about.  Even if it just results in regional differentiation, our central location allows Cincinnati to gain exposure to a lot of people who are largely are unfamiliar with dynamic urban environments.

 

When ever I'm in San Fran I can't help but think of this idea for Cincinnati.

Exhibit B:

 

Want to drink in the street? You may soon be able to

Bill taps open-container law as way to get development brewing

 

“Over-the-Rhine is vibrant, but it’s not as crowded as it once was,” he said, as an example. “Just think how the nightlife would feed into the residential areas, which would feed into the retail areas, which would cause the whole area to experience more success.”

 

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20131025/BIZ01/310250049/Want-drink-street-You-may-soon-able-to

 

 

OTR has all the potential in the world to be a great tourist destination.  For those complaining about nice beaches (which NOLA certainly does not have) I have to point out that we would be appealing to the German culture loving tourists who aren't looking for beaches.  Germany doesn't exactly have the best weather either.  Our weather actually reflects Germany's quite well.  Plus our weather is PERFECT in December for Christkindlemarkts, Laternenachts, Downtown Dazzle, ice skating and hot chocolate.  Christmas in this city is FAR more charming than in other places.  Really the only bad month we have in Cincinnati is August. 

As for food...Cincinnati chili is not popular, but it's certainly unique and addictive.  We also have another culinary delight called goetta.  I've sold everyone I know on goetta.  That stuff is delicious.  We also have a fun, unique tradition called Bockfest which can easily be leveraged as our springtime raucous OTR drinking party. 

 

There's a lot of potential here and I think the people in charge at 3CDC are starting to see that value. 

The rumors are true -- Graeter's is opening in OTR, across the street from Holtman's Donuts.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/blog/2013/10/graeters-coming-to-over-the-rhine.html?ana=twt

There goes my diet.  Again.

I'm presuming they'll be keeping the downtown location...

I can't imagine them closing the one on Fountain Square. That one serves a completely different demographic and probably makes a killing.

I'm presuming they'll be keeping the downtown location...

 

That's two Graeter's along the streetcar route.

*DING DING!*

Buddy LaRosa brings dream boxing center to Cincinnati

New 60,000 square-foot gym for amateurs and the occasional pro

Nov. 1, 2013

Written by John Erardi

 

 

Buddy LaRosa has finally achieved his dream:

 

Three rings.

 

Not as in circus, but as in a new boxing center in Over-the-Rhine.

 

The middle ring is majestic, the same one at center stage for the Cincinnati Gardens’ opening in 1949 when the great heavyweight Ezzard ‘‘The Cincinnati Cobra’’ Charles won a 15-round decision over Joey Maxim to become the No. 1 contender for Joe Louis’ title.

 

Among those in the house that night? Young Buddy LaRosa, before he went off and joined the Navy.

 

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20131101/COL19/311010138/Buddy-LaRosa-brings-dream-boxing-center-Cincinnati?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|FRONTPAGE|p&nclick_check=1

Speaking of the Graeter's OTR store... they said that it will only be an ice cream shop, and will not have bakery items, because it is such a small storefront. One of the things that has made the Gateway Quarter so successful is that the storefront are relatively small, and the businesses there have to focus on fewer products and do them well. For Graeter's, this is a new concept... or rather, a concept that they have to re-learn, since their stores have been getting larger and larger over the years. The same is true for Kroger... they keep growing and growing, and they have forgotten how to do anything but giant Marketplace stores well. It will be a challenge for chains to learn how to be successful in small spaces again.

I love their new branding and styling direction, too.

A group has applied for funding to upgrade the light fixtures along Main Street to a style more similar to what's being used on Vine Street. It should increase the amount of light on Main Street quite a bit. I would love to see Main Street's sidewalks redone to match Vine Street in the next few years.

 

 

http://choosecincy.com/services/Neighborhood_Business_District_Improvement_Program

I agree with everything in the bid package except the conversion of the gravel lot at Walnut, Moore, and Back Sts into public right of way.  That corner has great potential to build high-end property on some day.

I agree with everything in the bid package except the conversion of the gravel lot at Walnut, Moore, and Back Sts into public right of way.  That corner has great potential to build high-end property on some day.

 

Maybe there could be a land swap. Turn the corner of Moore & Walnut into public ROW, but develop the corner of Walnut & McMicken with a nice flat-iron building some day.

3CDC has unveiled a plan to move the Drop Inn Center homeless shelter from Over-the-Rhine to Queensgate: http://tinyurl.com/n6ddchg

3CDC, Drop Inn Center reach deal to move homeless shelter out of Over-the-Rhine

 

http://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/3cdc-drop-inn-center-reach-deal-to-move-homeless-shelter-out-of-over-the-rhine

 

---

 

It's going on the site of the old Butternut Bread factory adjacent the abandoned Hudepohl brewery.

Moving the Drop Inn Center is going to really change things, I think. 

Once-condemned OTR church will become three-level brewpub: EXCLUSIVE

Chris Wetterich - Staff reporter - Cincinnati Business Courier

 

A church in Over-the-Rhine that was once slated for demolition by the city will instead become a three-floor brewpub named after one of Cincinnati’s most famous native sons.

 

Three investors, including a New York restaurateur and the brewer at Listermann Brewing Co., plan to turn the former St. Paul’s Church at 1429 Race St. into Taft’s Ale House, named after President William Howard Taft.

 

The $7 million to $8 million brewpub will feature original beers crafted by Kevin Moreland, who started the Triple Digit brand at Listermann. It will be co-owned by Moreland, investor David Williams and David Kassling, the proprietor of Tri Tip Grill, which has two locations in New York City.

 

Cont

Earning a return on an $8 million restaurant investment within 10 years?  Good luck with that, there are a lot easier ways to make money.   

This one sounds awesome!  I've been wondering what will happen with that church for awhile.  Excited about it, and love the idea for branding.

Crews are burying the utilities on 12th Street, between Main and Pendleton. This is the same stretch of 12th Street that got new streetscapes as part of the casino work. It looks really nice.

Also, I'm starting to wonder what's happening to the original "Gateway Quarter" stretch of Vine Street. Not only is Joseph Williams Home (13th & Vine) closing, but American Legacy Tours is moving from their current location to a space next to Holtman's. I wonder if they have some specific new tenants in mind for Vine from 12th-13th.

Here’s the next big 3CDC project in Over-the-Rhine

The 15th and Race project will be similar to 3CDC's Mercer Commons project, which is adding new structures along Vine and 14th streets.

Tom Demeropolis Reporter- Cincinnati Business Courier

 

 

Cincinnati Center City Development Corp. was awarded more than $3 million in Ohio Historic Preservation Tax Credits for a large development in Over-the-Rhine, currently known as 15th and Race.

 

The nearly $39 million project encompasses almost a full block on the northwest corner of 15th and Race streets. The mixed-use development will include the restoration of eight historic buildings, a new four-story mixed-use structure and a 330-space parking garage. The entire development will add significant commercial space and 57 residential units. Construction could begin as early as this summer.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2013/12/20/heres-the-next-big-3cdc-project-in.html

^ Another parking garage just one block from Washington Park?  The streetcar can't get done soon enough! 

...and since council shut Cranberry up about the streetcar cancellation, maybe that will just add to the development.  All good news.

 

New craft beer concept coming to OTR

Andy Brownfield Reporter- Cincinnati Business Courier

 

 

I love craft beer. And like many who do, but haven’t immersed themselves in the complexities of different types of malts and hops and the combinations thereof, I have a very scientific method for choosing what beer to have at a bar: First I choose the style of beer I want. Then I choose whatever tap handle looks the coolest.

 

Two Cincinnati entrepreneurs – the guys behind the Pedal Wagon that you occasionally see ferrying revelers between bars in Over-the-Rhine – want to help Cincinnatians choose beers that they will truly enjoy most without having to rely on which breweries they are most familiar with or which tap handles look the most interesting.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/blog/2013/12/new-craft-beer-concept-coming-to-otr.html

Also, I'm starting to wonder what's happening to the original "Gateway Quarter" stretch of Vine Street. Not only is Joseph Williams Home (13th & Vine) closing, but American Legacy Tours is moving from their current location to a space next to Holtman's. I wonder if they have some specific new tenants in mind for Vine from 12th-13th.

 

A Tavola is expanding into the American Legacy space.

^Not surprising. They're always busy and have a wait. Good to see the storefront isn't going to sit empty.

Can you confirm that?  I actually work for American Legacy and even I'm still treating that as a rumor. I hope they do. 

I wasn't told by a developer or anything like that, but by someone close to it that seemed quite certain.  But if you work there and don't know it for certain, then perhaps it is just a rumor.  We'll see.  But we can all agree they need the extra space.

True story. I hope it happens. All I know is that were supposed to be moving up the street by the end of the month.

You guys are taking the old dry cleaner space, right?  I miss that dry cleaner.  They were doing well but apparently had a job transfer in the family that forced the sudden closure. 

You guys are taking the old dry cleaner space, right?  I miss that dry cleaner.  They were doing well but apparently had a job transfer in the family that forced the sudden closure.

 

you'd think that another dry cleaner would open up somewhere in OTR, it seems like a no-brainer.

You guys are taking the old dry cleaner space, right?  I miss that dry cleaner.  They were doing well but apparently had a job transfer in the family that forced the sudden closure. 

 

Yup. That's where we're going. I wish there was a dry cleaner in the neighborhood too.

New 3CDC headquarters.

 

http://www.urbancincy.com/2014/01/7-8m-renovation-of-pabst-bedding-warehouse-building-to-start-this-march/

3CDC's website now has the 15th and Race and 15th and Vine projects posted under current projects.  Not a lot of information as far as the budget or timeline is posted, but just thought I would share.

 

I wonder if these two will be their next Mercer Commons type big projects, and if 3CDC will continue to work on smaller apartment and condo projects in the meantime?

 

 

-LD

The Race and Liberty project is a large project, not as sure about the Vine and Liberty, but the space there seems pretty substantial.  And they recently received some tax credits for some smaller projects on 13th between vine and race, so i would think they would continue that as well.  Important to not only do large projects but to not let the singular houses be forgotten. 

 

Also the Park Haus project does a decent job of lining up single family homes with interested buyers to restore. 

The 15th and Vine project is a similar scope to the Trinity Flats project. The 15th and Race is similar in scope to Mercer Commons (according to 3CDC's announcement). That project is going to be incredibly transformative to that side of OTR. in addition to all of the other projects happening on Race that side of town seems to be changing the quickest these days.

^^ It should also be noted that the 15th and Vine project (per 3CDC's website) is all office space with ground floor retail. 

 

also, the block directly north of Washington Park on Race is shaping up to be a great corridor. Once Cintrifuse and Mercer Commons is complete Vine will have a different feel as well.  I am excited to see the progress.

For easy reference, here are the two projects just announced and the buildings/land they'll encompass.

 

 

I had heard from someone who had some info about the 15th and Race project that it would go all the way to Liberty but it appears that isn't happening. I'd imagine that the long building that spans from Race to Elm, which won't be included in this project from what I've hear, will be incorporated into a new building which will be built at a later date which will go all the way to Liberty Street.