Construction kicks off for Taft's Ale House in OTR

 

Over-the-Rhine's rich brewing history marks another milestone Friday as construction begins on Taft's Ale House – transforming an abandoned, historic church building and recalling a famous family's past.

 

The new three-level brewpub will be housed in the old St. Paul's German Evangelical Protestant Church at 1429 Race St. and include a brewery, three bars and full-service restaurant seating 300.

 

An official groundbreaking is at 11 a.m. today. It's expected to open this fall.

 

Cont

I can't begin to understand how they're going to open a 3 story restaurant in 6-8 months considering the building currently doesn't have windows, insulation, or even a ceiling...

Yeah haha the more you read about their plans in that article, the more pie-in-the-sky the whole thing sounds. 3 bars, a restaurant, a brewery, a national beer brand, building out a 3 story church in 6 months...

 

I'm glad people are dreaming big though!

I can't begin to understand how they're going to open a 3 story restaurant in 6-8 months considering the building currently doesn't have windows, insulation, or even a ceiling...

 

Retail and restaurants can go up very, very quick. Didn't 3CDC stabilize and replace the roof of that building already? With the amount of money being thrown at this place, 6-8 months should be attainable. It will be a bustling site, though.

Yeah the building was already fully stabilized, it has a new roof, the upper level was rebuilt (if memory serves correctly) and it's basically already fully gutted and ready for outfitting. Very little if any hard construction is necessary. 6-8 months seems doable with an aggressive work schedule.

^ But only if they have the plans AND permits ready to go.  Those can take 6-8 months by themselves if you get a stick-in-the-mud plan reviewer or inspector. 

I can't begin to understand how they're going to open a 3 story restaurant in 6-8 months considering the building currently doesn't have windows, insulation, or even a ceiling...

 

Retail and restaurants can go up very, very quick. Didn't 3CDC stabilize and replace the roof of that building already? With the amount of money being thrown at this place, 6-8 months should be attainable. It will be a bustling site, though.

 

They put a new roof on, but it's just shingles.  There's no insulation or vapor barriers or anything in the building yet.  I just went to the groundbreaking and asked the HGC Construction guys if it's even possible to be open by fall and one of the buys balked and said "Yeah...we don't even have a permit yet."  Then another guy said, "Well, we're just plastering the walls, but we've got a lot of tuck pointing to do and the roof needs insulation.  I guess we'll find out how long that takes." 

 

I'm SO excited for this project and it seems like they've got everything lined up for a quick construction schedule but I have a feeling they're either going to have a few month long soft opening after they start brewing beer and before they open the restaurant, or we're not going to see an opening until late winter.

I was wondering when they'd finally get rid of that :)

I'm a co-op with HGC, although I'm in classes on campus this semester.  But I worked with the PM on this project, Todd Christman, almost every day last semester. He's a great guy and I'm really excited for him to see this get started.  The plans have been finalized since at least November. I'm not exactly sure where they are on the permitting process, but I would be shocked if they had held the groundbreaking yesterday without being ready to get started right away.

 

I'm really looking forward to following this project next semester.

Went through that place on a 'Christmas Tour' the winter before last. They had a bit of a mess then.

^ But only if they have the plans AND permits ready to go.  Those can take 6-8 months by themselves if you get a stick-in-the-mud plan reviewer or inspector. 

 

sounds like it's good to have that all figured out up front...  ;)

Toured the Westfallen Lofts today on Race.  Unfortunately what was to be seen was quite disappointing.  The units were small AND awkward AND many had very noticeable craftsmanship issues.  The main craft I issue I kept seeing was creaky and/or uneven floors.  Second were drywall issues including what appeared to me to be some water leakage in one ceiling. 

 

That said...most of the units in that complex are priced under $200,000 and some around $110,000.  They really would have needed to turn many of them into 2-floor units in order to make them more livable.  Right now I don't see living with a girlfriend/wife/pet even possible without driving one another completely nuts. 

I uploaded some photos.

 

Here is an example of the shoddy work in Westfallen:

 

You can't make this stuff up:

 

 

2-car garage under construction on Republic St.:

 

 

Compare what you saw above to this independent work on Elm St. across from Findlay Market:

 

 

 

 

 

Off-centered doors, misplaced fans and what appears to be a soft ceiling. That's not good. I thought they could have handled the storage unit a bit better too. I would say you get what you pay for, but this is downright bad.

Who is the developer/builder on Westfallen?  Most reputable builders wouldn't offer tours with a product like that, first impression and all.

Wow, that's awful. They must think people are really desperate to move to OTR. I wouldn't doubt these get turned into rentals.

Wow, that's awful. They must think people are really desperate to move to OTR. I wouldn't doubt these get turned into rentals.

 

That's the whole reason I was looking.  I had the idea that buying one of the $105K units and renting it immediately and perpetually *might* be a sound investment, but it can't be, at least not in this building.  The reason I was interested was because these units, presumably, are ready to go with all new features, meaning ongoing maintenance would be minimal for at least 15 years (unlike a similarly priced student rental in CUF, for example).  You'd have to rent one of these for about $900 to comfortably beat the mortgage payment and maintain a maintenance/missed payment fund, but I'm not sure you can get that for these.  You'd really want to be getting $1100/mo and you're definitely not going to get that. 

 

Oh, and there's the pesky little matter of max 25% renters in the HOA, meaning if you live here and work out of town for a year, there's no guarantee that you can rent your unit during your absence.  That's a HUGE financial hit.  Great illustration of why there are so many problems with buying condos. 

 

My advice to people looking is to buy a single-family home on the hillsides right now, not one of these condos, especially one in a building with the low-priced condos like Westfallen where the value of your $200K unit risks being undermined by the shuffling around in the $100K units.

 

I bought a 1400 sq foot 2-bedroom house on Klotter last year for $100K.  There's a similar one for sale across the street from me right now for $90K.  This is a WAY better buy than the similarly priced Westfallen condos. 

 

 

 

 

 

^ Except for the fact that it's on Klotter Street ;) 

As requested (and needed).

 

Oh, the challenges we face when we choose to live in an urban area.

 

On the one hand, you have suburban relatives saying you're stupid for wanting to live downtown, and that it's too dangerous.

 

On the other hand, you have "anti-gentrification activists" accusing you of "displacing" existing residents:

 

 

I just want to live somewhere that has a great sense of community and great walkability. Everybody leave me alone.

Over the Rhine already has a great sense of community and walk-ability that will only get stronger as time progresses. Its great to see it first hand. 

 

Side note: i am the only one in my family that lives downtown and, as you sort of referenced referenced, at family functions or holidays everyone asks like "ohhhh how is downtown" like its some alien planet.  Granted, all my relatives live in mason.

Do you think people are really moving en mass?

 

I live down in OTR and for the most part a huge part of the neighborhood is like a ghost town, lots of boarded up buildings and this is just south of Liberty.

 

Did anyone catch Cranley on the news when they were talking about how Hamilton county gained a small percentage of population, the story was about people moving back to the Urban Core.  Cranley, and I don't know if it was at this time, said something a long the lines that now that it has happened in the core, it will happen in Avondale, Price Hill, Northside, etc.

 

Basically, it seemed like he thought they did enough work already in the core and need to move elsewhere.  Honestly, that isn't really how city economics works.  They need to take full adventage of the core and make it self sustaining.  Especially when you look at OTR, so much more to go there in redevelopment.  I mean, I would figure that there needs to be what they have done so far, and double or triple that before it is self sustaining.

 

What is everyone's thoughts on the core being self sustaining, i.e. the demand is so high that private development can occur with no city help?

I would hope that it is heading in that direction, but going from early 2000's to self sustaining urban core definitely will take time.  Huge strides have been made, but the work is far from done.  Which is exciting to see it in person happening and allows me to appreciate it.  But also frustrating to see assets sit underused.

 

And that would be very Cranley of him to say "oh downtown and otr are done needing development", and you can already see it with him unnecessarily slamming the breaks on 4th and race. 

 

Its a process, but a process more than worthwhile.

Yes I agree, very worthwhile process. 

 

I was wondering about the 4th and Race too, has anyone heard anything new on this?  I am hoping they will get going on it and figure out a deal?  I know wrong topic

Do you think people are really moving en mass?

 

I live down in OTR and for the most part a huge part of the neighborhood is like a ghost town, lots of boarded up buildings and this is just south of Liberty.

 

Did anyone catch Cranley on the news when they were talking about how Hamilton county gained a small percentage of population, the story was about people moving back to the Urban Core.  Cranley, and I don't know if it was at this time, said something a long the lines that now that it has happened in the core, it will happen in Avondale, Price Hill, Northside, etc.

 

Basically, it seemed like he thought they did enough work already in the core and need to move elsewhere.  Honestly, that isn't really how city economics works.  They need to take full adventage of the core and make it self sustaining.  Especially when you look at OTR, so much more to go there in redevelopment.  I mean, I would figure that there needs to be what they have done so far, and double or triple that before it is self sustaining.

 

What is everyone's thoughts on the core being self sustaining, i.e. the demand is so high that private development can occur with no city help?

 

There is plenty of room for new residents in OTR. To claim poor people are being "displaced" is outrageous. When I bought my condo, it was vacant (the previous owner moved out of the city over a year prior to selling it). Most of the 3CDC, Urban Sites, and similar developments are turning vacant buildings into new apartments and condos.

 

You can certainly argue that rents have risen over time, but someone needs to explain to me why rising property values are considered good in suburban areas but bad in cities. Another big reason OTR rents are rising is because there is high demand but low availability. We absolutely need more new development to keep housing costs in check.

Walk or bike around the area north of Liberty St. at night.  You hardly see any lights on in any of the buildings.  They're mostly vacant and unrentable. 

To address IAGuy39's other point, I think your assessment of Cranley is spot on. He seems to be one of these people who think that urban living is a fad, or that it's only for recent college grads who will eventually "grow up" and buy a house in a real neighborhood. He doesn't understand that this is a major cultural shift and that OTR and downtown are going to continue to grow until there's nothing left to be developed.

Not sure what it will take to make sustainable, but I'm very happy that we're on our way.  The momentum already going, paired with the streetcar and reduction/elimination of parking minimums are all coming together nicely to help.

It seems to me that there are a lot of parallels between the anti-gentrification sentiments of today and the anti-integration arguments of the 1950's and 60's.  Neighborhoods are not static- they change countless times over the years, and that is perfectly acceptable.  It's laughable to me to hear gentrification arguments in Cincinnati.  This city is flush with cheap housing, and OTR itself has a ton of affordable housing, much of which is guaranteed (by HUD) to be in the neighborhood for decades to come.  There are still little bodegas and cheap dining options, there are still tons of social service agencies, shelters, and halfway houses.  What we are finally seeing in OTR is an economically mixed neighborhood.  People react harshly to this because Cincinnati (like many cities) does not have many areas that are truly economically diverse.  Is the trend moving towards more upscale? Absolutely.  Is the trend on much of the West Side moving to more lower class? Probably yes. 

 

Were black people doing a horrendous thing by moving into predominantly Jewish Avondale and Roselawn? Should the Guatemalans who live in Lower Price Hill be scolded for taking the place of the historically Appalachian community that lived there? Of course not.  Neighborhoods evolve, and as long as there are still options for the poor in the city (there are PLENTY), then please miss me with this gentrification nonsense.  Buying a house or leasing an apartment does not come with a promise that the neighborhood will exist in its current form for all eternity.

 

I'd like to pack up a group of these anti-gentrifiers and take them to San Francisco where it is extremely hard for even a solidly middle class individual to find housing anywhere in the city.  OTR was a neighborhood of less than 7,000 residents when 3CDC began its redevelopment efforts.  There are still plenty of poor people there, and they assuredly benefit from the lower crime, the redeveloped and cleaned up Washington Park, the better grocery options at the OTR Kroger, and many of the other benefits that come with a revitalized neighborhood.  Sure they might not be able to eat at the Senate every night, but you know what? Neither can I. Most people can't. Deal with it.

It seems to me that there are a lot of parallels between the anti-gentrification sentiments of today and the anti-integration arguments of the 1950's and 60's.  Neighborhoods are not static- they change countless times over the years, and that is perfectly acceptable.  It's laughable to me to hear gentrification arguments in Cincinnati.  This city is flush with cheap housing, and OTR itself has a ton of affordable housing, much of witch is guaranteed (by HUD) to be in the neighborhood for decades to come.  There are still little bodegas and cheap dining options, there are still tons of social service agencies, shelters, and halfway houses.  What we are finally seeing in OTR is an economically mixed neighborhood.  People react harshly to this because Cincinnati (like many cities) does not have many areas that are truly economically diverse.  Is the trend moving towards more upscale? Absolutely.  Is the trend on much of the West Side moving to more lower class? Probably yes. 

 

Were black people doing a horrendous thing by moving into predominantly Jewish Avondale and Roselawn? Should the Guatemalans who live in Lower Price Hill be scolded for taking the place of the historically Appalachian community that lived there? Of course not.  Neighborhoods evolve, and as long as there are still options for the poor in the city (there are PLENTY), then please miss me with this gentrification nonsense.  Buying a house or leasing an apartment does not come with a promise that the neighborhood will exist in its current form for all eternity.

 

I'd like to pack up a group of these anti-gentrifiers and take them to San Francisco where it is extremely hard for even a solidly middle class individual to find housing anywhere in the city.  OTR was a neighborhood of less than 7,000 residents when 3CDC began its redevelopment efforts.  There are still plenty of poor people there, and they assuredly benefit from the lower crime, the redeveloped and cleaned up Washington Park, the better grocery options at the OTR Kroger, and many of the other benefits that come with a revitalized neighborhood.  Sure they might not be able to eat at the Senate every night, but you know what? Neither can I. Most people can't. Deal with it.

 

I just don't like being called a "wealthy white gentrifier" like I was on Twitter today by this anti-gentrification guy. First of all, it's making an assumption about my income level. Secondly, it's saying that my goal in moving to OTR was to gentrify the neighborhood, eradicate diversity, and turn the entire neighborhood into a playground for other "wealthy white" people, which is the opposite of the reason that I actually live there.

It seems to me that there are a lot of parallels between the anti-gentrification sentiments of today and the anti-integration arguments of the 1950's and 60's.  Neighborhoods are not static- they change countless times over the years, and that is perfectly acceptable.  It's laughable to me to hear gentrification arguments in Cincinnati.  This city is flush with cheap housing, and OTR itself has a ton of affordable housing, much of witch is guaranteed (by HUD) to be in the neighborhood for decades to come.  There are still little bodegas and cheap dining options, there are still tons of social service agencies, shelters, and halfway houses.  What we are finally seeing in OTR is an economically mixed neighborhood.  People react harshly to this because Cincinnati (like many cities) does not have many areas that are truly economically diverse.  Is the trend moving towards more upscale? Absolutely.  Is the trend on much of the West Side moving to more lower class? Probably yes. 

 

Were black people doing a horrendous thing by moving into predominantly Jewish Avondale and Roselawn? Should the Guatemalans who live in Lower Price Hill be scolded for taking the place of the historically Appalachian community that lived there? Of course not.  Neighborhoods evolve, and as long as there are still options for the poor in the city (there are PLENTY), then please miss me with this gentrification nonsense.  Buying a house or leasing an apartment does not come with a promise that the neighborhood will exist in its current form for all eternity.

 

I'd like to pack up a group of these anti-gentrifiers and take them to San Francisco where it is extremely hard for even a solidly middle class individual to find housing anywhere in the city.  OTR was a neighborhood of less than 7,000 residents when 3CDC began its redevelopment efforts.  There are still plenty of poor people there, and they assuredly benefit from the lower crime, the redeveloped and cleaned up Washington Park, the better grocery options at the OTR Kroger, and many of the other benefits that come with a revitalized neighborhood.  Sure they might not be able to eat at the Senate every night, but you know what? Neither can I. Most people can't. Deal with it.

 

I just don't like being called a "wealthy white gentrifier" like I was on Twitter today by this anti-gentrification guy. First of all, it's making an assumption about my income level. Secondly, it's saying that my goal in moving to OTR was to gentrify the neighborhood, eradicate diversity, and turn the entire neighborhood into a playground for other "wealthy white" people, which is the opposite of the reason that I actually live there.

Cincinnati is so harsh to change even a lot of progressives can't accept it. My argument to them is that Cincy isn't San Francisco - it will die if it doesn't change which is worse for everyone. I wish urbanism was more accepted there, seeing it change over the last few years is why I follow news down there

One thing that gets me, at least on Twitter, is the number of gentrification critics who live nowhere near the urban core.  It's easy to call someone a gentrifier and lament alleged displacement when you are sitting in a house on the 275 loop. 

One thing that gets me, at least on Twitter, is the number of gentrification critics who live nowhere near the urban core.  It's easy to call someone a gentrifier and lament alleged displacement when you are sitting in a house on the 275 loop. 

 

These are the people I understand the most.  They moved way out there to escape the problems of the city.  Any improvements in the city, in their minds, means a displacement of the problems out toward them.  It's such a small equation for them.  They completely fail to recognize so many variables.

If the city improves, then they are "wrong" about saying how it sucks.  Everybody likes to think that they're decision on where to buy a house was the wisest one.  You will know what I'm talking about as soon as you start looking for a house -- all the sudden everyone wants you to buy a house or condo in their neighborhood. 

 

The problem is that a long-term investment in a house is like sitting on a stock for 30 years.  The world changes in 30 years and there are very few neighborhoods in the United States that are like sitting on shares P&G or GE that whole time. 

What I have found, and some might not agree, is that residents living in or close to the urban core care about the entire region as a whole.  The people who live 15+ miles out only care about what's happening out there.  Its a cluster of close-mindedness.  OTR is going through a renaissance and the sad truth is we have people in the suburbs who haven't been downtown in years.

To be fair, I find myself caring more about what happens in the core than I do I'm the burbs.

 

I think the big difference is that I'm apathetic to what happens out there while people from the burbs have very loud opinions about what happens in the city.

On a different topic, who here feels that even 25 mph is a bit fast in OTR?  I always drive close to 15-20 mph and feel like 25 mph is going super fast especially on Vine Street, but mostly all north-south streets between Sycamore and Elm.  If you are going on an East-West street south of Liberty, 25 mph is definitely too fast.

 

Should they change the speed limit through the area?

I'd agree with that assessment. Thankfully much of the time there is too much activity happening to actually achieve those speeds, but 15-20 seems way more appropriate for the size of the streets, pedestrian levels, people parking, people crossing, etc. Whenever I get south of Liberty on Vine when coming from Clifton my speed drops from around 30 to about 15. It is a much more comfortable speed for that area and makes significantly more sense. If you try to go 25 you're just constantly accelerating then braking because there's always something going on in front of you. If you choose a slower cruising speed it's more likely the flow will better match.

Yeah, I agree that 25 is too fast, but nobody ever goes that fast anyway.  I'd fully support a change in the speed limit, but I'm not about to champion a change.  There are just bigger fish to fry, in my opinion.

Did anyone read the Free Print Edition Article in the Business Courier a few weeks back?  Sorry no link, but believe it was called somewhere a long the lines of "Handling Development in OTR".

 

Anyways, it was an interesting article talking about 3CDC and other developers and what they are doing.  In the article, they mention that now they are exploring the idea of selling some of the properties they own to other developers.

 

I thought about this and didn't think much news but then thought, this could most definitely speed up development.  That way, developers could buy these properties and start rehabbing immediately or shortly.

 

Do you all believe development would speed up in OTR if 3CDC sold some of it's properties?  Thoughts?

Someone told me that 3CDC is offering vacant buildings for sale to developers for $75/SF.  Is that true?  sounds extremely high.  Maybe they misheard and it is $25/SF.  I mean some of these buildings are really rough.

I doubt banks would lend to redevelop many of the properties that are in atrocious condition.  You need cash and/or investors.  The streetcar and strong sales of 3CDC condos is making the previously preposterous notion of getting people to invest $10+ million in OTR more likely. 

 

 

Seeds of development sprouting north of Liberty

Bowdeya Tweh, [email protected] 8:07 a.m. EDT May 7, 2014

 

 

Two new businesses will open in the next few months at Findlay Market and the developments may reflect more than cravings for barbecued ribs and homemade chocolates.

 

It's also the latest sign that redevelopment may be coming to the next key spot in Over-the-Rhine – the blocks north of Liberty Street that so far have largely missed the neighborhood's housing and retail revival.

 

 

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/money/2014/05/06/north-liberty-development/8791783/

Senior housing comes to OTR

Staff Cincinnati Business Courier

 

Apartments designed exclusively for senior citizens will be opening in Over-the-Rhine soon, the Enquirer reports.

 

Elm Street Senior housing includes 15 new apartments in a 150-year-old building. Over-the-Rhine Community Housing led the $4 million redevelopment, which will hold a ribbon cutting ceremony on May 20.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/morning_call/2014/05/senior-housing-comes-to-otr.html

The latest redevelopment project in OTR opens today (photos)

Chris Wetterich Staff reporter- Cincinnati Business Courier

 

 

For decades, Roger Auer, the board chair of Over-the-Rhine Community Housing, has taken Elder High School students into the neighborhood to work on community service projects.

 

About 20 years ago, he took his students into a building at 1500 Elm St. They were in the basement jacking up some floor joists that had broken.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/05/20/the-latest-redevelopment-project-in-otr-opens.html

New clothing retailer coming to Over-the-Rhine

Tom Demeropolis Reporter- Cincinnati Business Courier

 

 

Homage, a Columbus-based apparel company, will open a new store this fall in Over-the-Rhine.

 

The retailer is moving into a 1,200-square-foot space located at 1232 Vine St., in a portion of the old Joseph Williams Home space. This is the third location for Homage and the first outside of Columbus. Homage signed a five-year lease for the space.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/05/20/new-clothing-retailer-coming-to-over-the-rhine.html

^ Nice to see something other than a restaurant or bar opening.

Saw something on Facebook about plans to tear down the old Davis Furniture building on Main.  Anyone know anything about that? 

I don't know the exact details, but there are people/entities who are interested in purchasing the building and renovating. For some reason Stough Group (current owner) is making excuses about why they won't sell to those prospective buyers.

 

No final decisions have been made.

The davis furniture building was recently boarded up "properly" -- as in to meet VBML standards. That would argue against it being torn down, or at least that it isn't the interest of the owners to have that happen.