Posted October 6, 200420 yr i started talking about this in a photo thread, and thought to make it one of it's own. i've noticed a city can be grouped into 3 catagories: a square, a main street, or an intersection as the center of the town. (except toledo) the square surrounds either the courthouse or a park. an intersection is almost like a tiny square, and sometimes has a monument in the middle can anyone think of more to add or changes to put on here? is some of this wrong? am i crazy for even doing this? :lol: Square: chardon newark mansfield (a square with a street going through the middle) medina elyria columbus cleveland(like 5 squares) kenton troy warren mt vernon sidney Main Street: youngstown cambridge conneaut delaware findlay hamilton lebanon marion marysville millersburg wapokeneta lancaster circleville ashland akron london tiffin ravenna port clinton fremont lorain bowling green bellefontaine coshocton batavia wooster Intersection: upper sandusky dayton norwalk hillsboro mt gilead xenia washington c.h. new philadelphia jefferson bucyrus ?: zanesville painesville toledo sandusky springfield canton lima cincinnati
October 6, 200420 yr Hmm, for Cincinnati you might say "square" but Fountain Square really developed as an afterthought. I'd say the city really developed initially off of the Public Landing, if you want to call that the square--though that area no longer exists as such.
October 6, 200420 yr Good topic. I would distinguish whether or not you are talking about the whole town, the business center, or the area around the courthouse. I would also point out that many Ohio towns were laid out in a rectangular grid pattern, and many courthouses are centered in their own block. Sometimes this is called a Square, or Courthouse Square, but it is not really a square in the European sense. Sometimes a whole block is dedicated as a park. The Wayne County Courthouse does not follow this pattern it does not have its own block, and it is right on the street. Maybe a more telling classification is the pattern that most of the storefronts are distributed. Using Summit's labels, I am going to try to pin down the definitions, with respect to Ohio rather than European geography. In a Main Street town, the storefronts are on both sides of a single street, often for several blocks in length. This is a very common pattern. Often the street is wider than other streets. Sometimes the main street is called "The Main Drag." In a Square town, the storefronts are on the far side of the four streets facing a courthouse or park block. Rather than just a statue, the entire courthouse might function as the monument in the middle of the square. The Square town is not limited to county seats, but is probably most associated with them. In an Intersection town, the storefronts are on both sides of two crossing streets, often two main roads. The center of the intersection is the "Center" of town, and the corner stores are likely to be the most valuable property. A large city, of course, has many storefronts and repeats these patterns many times. A side street in a city might be bigger than a main street in a small town. The most important area seems to define a city. I would say that Cleveland is a Square city, with the square subdivided into several blocks of parks. Columbus is a Square city, built around the statehouse. Cincinnati used to be an Intersection city, with the center at Fifth and Walnut. Fifth Street was wider than other streets for one block on either side of Walnut, with the west part known as Fountain Square and the east part known as Government Square. When the DuBois Tower (Fifth Third Center) was built along with Fountain Square Plaza, the central place was split into two spaces, so Cincinnati is less of an Intersection city than it used to be. Here's a postcard of Cincinnati's Fountain Square from the 1950's. http//www.geocities.com/caseywalter/fountain.htm Casey
October 6, 200420 yr I'd say Celina, Sandusky, Lima, Springfield, Cincinnati and Canton are all squares (though some are more rectangles really). I say Eaton is an intersection (Barron & Main). I'd classify Greenville as an intersection too (Main & Broadway).
October 6, 200420 yr I think sometimes the distinction between "main street" and "intersection" can be blurred a bit. I would agree that Delaware, for instance, probably does belong in the "main street" catergory, but there definitely is a central intersection where property values are highest. Interestingly, this is not the intersection of the north-south main street with either of the two east-west through roads (even though one is called Central Ave), but rather the intersection with the street between these two. Also noteworthy is that the county courthouse is not at the central intersection but instead a block away. A professor said that is common (after all, let something that pays property taxes occupy the high-value property); Summit Street or someone else who's been to all these towns can either verify or dispute that. Sorry if I start going on about Delaware too much, but the city is largely the laboratory for a class this semester, so I'm learning too much about it.
October 6, 200420 yr f y'all are familiar with cultural geography, there has been an actual typology established for town layouts based on the ntature of the town square. Youngstown actually has a square..apparently some of the Western Reserve towns where layed out with a square, really more of a villiage green, in the middle. I think Canfield is supposed to be a good example of this. Lebanon is a good example of a Main Street town. So was Dayton at one time, tho it orginally had a square. There are different types of squares. There is the "Urbana" form, with the square at an interesection, chopped out of the surrounding four blocks. (you see this in Kentucky, too, alot...Elizabethtown and Bardstown are good examples, except the Courthouse is in the square, not a monument, like in Urbana)...this form is also in Pennyslvania, where Lancaster is a good example of it...or even the center square in Philadelphia, where city hall is. Then there is the "Eaton" or "Xenia" form, where the square is the center block in town (where the courthouse is). When you get out of Ohio, into Wisconsin, you will find true "Main Street" towns...the courthouse isn't even on the Main Street. New London and Rhinlander are examples. I
October 7, 200420 yr f y'all are familiar with cultural geography' date=' there has been an actual typology established for town layouts based on the ntature of the town square. Youngstown actually has a square..apparently some of the Western Reserve towns where layed out with a square, really more of a villiage green, in the middle. I think Canfield is supposed to be a good example of this. Lebanon is a good example of a Main Street town. So was Dayton at one time, tho it orginally had a square. There are different types of squares. There is the "Urbana" form, with the square at an interesection, chopped out of the surrounding four blocks. (you see this in Kentucky, too, alot...Elizabethtown and Bardstown are good examples, except the Courthouse is in the square, not a monument, like in Urbana)...this form is also in Pennyslvania, where Lancaster is a good example of it...or even the center square in Philadelphia, where city hall is. Then there is the "Eaton" or "Xenia" form, where the square is the center block in town (where the courthouse is). When you get out of Ohio, into Wisconsin, you will find true "Main Street" towns...the courthouse isn't even on the Main Street. New London and Rhinlander are examples. I[/quote'] Agree with you Jeff. This would make for a good thesis or dissertation project (if it hasn't been covered 1,000 different ways already.)
October 7, 200420 yr I think sometimes the distinction between "main street" and "intersection" can be blurred a bit. I would agree that Delaware' date=' for instance, probably does belong in the "main street" catergory, but there definitely is a central intersection where property values are highest. Interestingly, this is not the intersection of the north-south main street with either of the two east-west through roads (even though one is called Central Ave), but rather the intersection with the street between these two. Also noteworthy is that the county courthouse is not at the central intersection but instead a block away. A professor said that is common (after all, let something that pays property taxes occupy the high-value property); Summit Street or someone else who's been to all these towns can either verify or dispute that. Sorry if I start going on about Delaware too much, but the city is largely the laboratory for a class this semester, so I'm learning too much about it.[/quote'] Downtown Delaware is "technically" the intersection of Sandusky and William Sts (that is where City hall is and the point for all house numbering in Delaware County pivots from) Though I agree with you concerning Winter and Sandusky St being sort of the nexus of the Delaware Business District. Sandor (former Metro Delaware, Oh. resident)
October 7, 200420 yr I've always thought of Hamilton more as a Courthouse Square although High Street/Main Street is the major thoroughfare. There is and always has been a central square with a courthouse on it, surrounded by a parklike setting.
October 7, 200420 yr I don't know if suburbs are counted, but Lakewood could be considered a Main Street town with storefronts and buildings spanning all of Detroit Avenue border to border. It could also be considered an intersection town as well, with the ever busy Detroit and Warren being the "main" roads.
October 7, 200420 yr I would have thought Hamilton was a square too. I guess Middletown would be an intersection (Main & Central).
October 7, 200420 yr hamilton is one of those in between the two category cities. it has it's main street with a square right on that street. delaware i had thought of as a main street, with any intersections popping up as an addition, but the one street (sandusky st.?) is where the action is. dayton i'm baffled as to how to categorize it now, and i don't know enough about it's origins to put anything for it(i said intersection above, now disagree with myself)...it's probably too big for these options anyway...same thing with youngstown, cincinnati and toledo. i haven't been to eaton, so i can't comment on it, but xenia i thought of as an intersection with one corner a courthouse square...but not a square city, just a city also with a square (bellefontaine would also match the not a square city, but there is a courthouse square) for the true 'main street' towns, i'll say that marysville would qualify. nearly everything is on one street, and the courthouse is a few blocks off of it. sandusky's square is kind of offset by the lake being so close that they built between the courthouse and the lake all that stuff eighth and state said sounds good i think the best way to show an intersection example is mt. gilead, the square would be sidney, and marysville a main street now if only circleville would have kept it's original design :lol: a lot of these are too hard to classify... :( thanks for all the input.
October 7, 200420 yr Just two quick observations from today: Westerville- main street Worthington- square by intent, but in reality more main street Correct me if I'm wrong; I really have no familiarity with either place other than passing through briefly. Also... not from today, and really of no consequence, but the village of Sunbury in Delaware County is a square town.
October 8, 200420 yr Actually, the center of Bucyrus is a Square ("Washington Square," in fact) -- its just that so many buildings have been torn down that it appears to be an intersection. And, to add to your list of squares, let me add one the quirkiest -- Galion. Galion's Public Square was a "no man's land," devoid of any traffic devices, between 1831 and 1995 -- at which time four islands were created to assist in traffic flow. The question persists, however, as to whether or not it is permissible to turn right on red through the Square, as to do so, you must first advance into the "no man's land."
October 8, 200420 yr You're right SummitStreet, both Eaton and Xenia are intersections. The courthouses sit on intersections rather than squares. Eaton's has streets on two sides, but only narrow alleys on the other two sides. It takes up 1/4 of a block.
October 8, 200420 yr I checked out the link from presOhio and the Ohio Preservation Alliance resource page lists UrbanOhio as a "Featured Preservation Link". The 10 Most Endangered Sites in Ohio is an interesting read. The resource page is as follows: http://www.ohiopreservationalliance.homestead.com/OPAlinks.html
October 8, 200420 yr ^ Yes, the Executive Director of the OPA is a member here (username="presOhio").
October 9, 200420 yr I would have thought Hamilton was a square too. I guess Middletown would be an intersection (Main & Central). Middletown is an interesting city because of the way it is laid out and the fact that it went through major urban redevelopment in the 1970s, which included clearance and new roads. While it does have a "Main Street" the main street in downtown Middletown is really Central Avenue, but this road is very narrow. I, too, would consider it mostly a intersection city. The corner of Main and Central was certainly the center of the financial district with First National Bank, Barntiz Bank (Bank One now) and Middletown Federal Savings Bank (5/3 now) and the Merchants National Bank wich merged wtih First National. Today, this corner is home to four of the larger commerical buildings downtown, but only financial institution to remain at this corner is 5/3. You have the former classic Bank One Building. The towering Art Deco 5/3 Building. The modern Cingergy Building and the MidCommons Building. However, there is really nothing (other than the river) west of Main Street. The city grew east of Main. Another key intersection in Middletown was Central and Broad(way). This was just east of the Central and Main intersection and was the key commercial area for the city. Most would agree the city's district pretty much grew around these two streets. Because Middletown is not the county seat of Butler County, there is no courthouse located in the city and thus, no town square developed around it. However, in the 1970s a new city building and public plaza were built. Along the plaza, you find the Middletown Senior's, Middletown Fine Arts Center, Middletown Women's Center, the Post Office, United Way and the Manchester Inn and Conferenec Center. But of course, since this complex was completed in the 1970s, the town hardly grew around it. Another interesting aspect about Middletown's downtown is that up until the 1930's, the Miami Erie Canal ran right through the center of downtown until it was covered to become modern-day Verity Parkway. Port Middletown was located where the canal intersected Central Ave (then Third Street). This public landing was of course a major social center during the canal heydays. A new park/public square called Port Middletown Park was dedicated this summer.
October 10, 200420 yr Worthington- square by intent' date=' but in reality more main street [/quote'] yeah, the original layout was a square (rectangle) park, but rt. 161 and rt. 23 kinda overruled that. the main business district is just south of it "He platted a New England type village of 164 lots around a central public square" http://www.worthingtonmemory.org/TextFiles/cow0001_001.txt
December 14, 200420 yr okay, i have now decided that i believe troy is not a square. it is an intersection with the corners squared off.
February 15, 200520 yr willoughby has a main street and at the south end a triangle. chagrin falls has a triangle. bedford has a five-points intersection. independence has a square. westlake has crocker park.
February 16, 200520 yr Independence square is at Chesnut rd and Brecksville rd. There are actually some really nice century homes around it.
February 16, 200520 yr ^the independence public square is actually 2 blocks south of the intersection of chestnut and brecksville (just a minor nitpick). here's a mapquest image to view:
February 17, 200520 yr There is a water tower ther that says "Independence, heart of Cuyahoga county"
February 18, 200520 yr There is a water tower ther that says "Independence, heart of Cuyahoga county" i love suburban hubris. that's also what the 'welcome to independence' signs say.
June 5, 200520 yr Okay, as of today the official list i have compiled is this: if anybody can find a place for the unknowns or can find a mistake i've made please let me know. also, if i left anything out. (some of the unknowns are just names i pulled off a population list, so they might have one, or they might all be culdesac lands without a center point) akron - main street alliance-main street ashtabula-main street aurora - intersection amherst - five points intersection ashland - main street avon - main street avon on the lake - intersection baltimore - intersection barnesville - main street batavia - main street bay village - intersection beavercreek - as long as kettering can be called an intersection city, beavercreek can be too bedford - intersection bellefontaine - main street bexley - main street bowling green - main street brunswick - intersection bryan - square bucyrus - square cadiz-intersection caldwell - square cambridge - main street celina - square centerville-intersection chardon - square chagrin falls has a triangle cheviot - main street cincinnati - intersection? circleville - main street cleveland - square columbus - square conneaut - main street coshocton - main street dayton - intersection defiance - main street delaware - main street dublin - main street eaton - intersection elyria - square euclid - main street fairborn - main street fairview park - main street findlay - main street fremont - main street galion - square gallipolis - french square grandview heights - main street greenville - intersection hamilton - main street with a square hilliard - main street hillsboro - intersection huron - port off lake independence - square jackson - intersection jefferson - intersection kenton - square kettering - either intersection or nothing lakewood - main street lancaster - main street lebanon - main street lima - square logan - main street london - main street lorain - main street mansfield - square mariemont-6 way intersection... marion - main street marysville - main street mcconnellsville - intersection medina - square mentor - between a main st. and intersection miamisburg - matin st middletown - main st? millersburg - main street mt gilead - intersection mt vernon - square napoleon - intersection newark - square new lexington - intersection new philadelphia - intersection north olmstead - main street north ridgeville - main street north royalton - main street norwalk - intersection oakwood - main street ottawa - main street painesville - misc. (all 3?) paulding - square port clinton - main street prospect - fried bologna sandwiches ravenna - main street richwood - main street rocky river - main street sharon center - (under review) sidney - square st clairsville - main street st mary's - main street tiffin - main street troy - intersection upper sandusky - intersection urbana - intersection van wert - main street wapokeneta - main street warren - square washington c.h. - intersection wauseon - main street waverly - ouch west carrolton - main street westlake - mainstreet/iintersection combo westerville - main street willoughby - main st and triangle? wilmington - interseciont woodsfield - intersection worthington - square xenia - intersection yellow springs - main street youngstown - main street zanesville - need help with this one canal winchester canton carrollton chilicothe cleveland heights cuyahoga falls dover e cleveland e liverpool e palestine fairfield gahanna gambier garfield heights granville huber heights ironton johnstown kent lisbon marietta mason massilion middlesburg heights montgomery nelsonville new concord norwood orrville parma perrysburg pickerington portsmouth reynoldsburg riverside salem sandusky shaker heights solon springfield steubenville strongsville tipp city toledo university heights upper arlington vandalia west union wooster
June 5, 200520 yr Mentor is somewhere between an inersection and main street. It started off as the intersection of mentor ave (rt 20) and center street (rt 615). Historicaly its the area with the oldest buildings and oldest roads, and there is some traces of old mentor in that area still. Now its just all of mentor ave extending from wiloughby and painsville especially concentrated around great lakes mall
June 6, 200520 yr Ahem. DAYTON has a square ;). Toledo is probably a main street. Cincinnati is just "blocks" "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
June 6, 200520 yr I wouldn't put Dayton in the square category. While it has a square, the square itself does not define anything; rather, I'd say the intersection it's at (3rd and Main) is more important. Although these days Dayton seems more and more like a main street kind of place. A few of your "unknowns": Beavercreek (my home)- Almost entirely a creation of suburbia; the several tiny rural villages that once existed within this area have little or no relation to the present city. Might as well cross it off from the list. Fairborn- Main street, I guess Kettering- Tempting to say "nothing," but you could make the case for intersection. Oakwood- Main street Urbana- Intersection (though practically it's more like a main street town) Sad to say, I am actually not familiar enough with the several other Dayton suburbs listed to make a judgment.
June 6, 200520 yr I'd put the center of Brunswick at 42 and 303 (and thus an intersection), not at the 71 exit ramp - but I guess this thread, "Brunstucky gets a downtown", would argue against me. And for Euclid, I'd suggest just a main street - E 222nd, which has the whole municipal complex on along the east side of the street. I'm not sure if villages qualify for the list, but Sharon Center has a beautiful town square, which is actually a traffic circle. Same thing in Litchfield.
June 6, 200520 yr I simply put Dayton - Square due to it being at the intersection of 3rd and Main. "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
June 6, 200520 yr I'd put the center of Brunswick at 42 and 303 (and thus an intersection), to an intersection it goes! And for Euclid, I'd suggest just a main street done I'm not sure if villages qualify for the list, but Sharon Center has a beautiful town square, which is actually a traffic circle. looking at the map, i'd say it looks more like an intersection than a square. similiar to troy's situation. for now i'll leave it without a listing but unless you really can bring up a case for square, it'll be intersection Same thing in Litchfield. well, the Litchfield link just sent me to sharon center again, and i've never heard of the place. so it stays unknown ______ Beavercreek (my home)- Almost entirely a creation of suburbia; the several tiny rural villages that once existed within this area have little or no relation to the present city. Might as well cross it off from the list. erased! Fairborn- Main street, I guess Kettering- Tempting to say "nothing," but you could make the case for intersection. done Oakwood- Main street ah, yes... doh! Urbana- Intersection (though practically it's more like a main street town) urbana's intersection is rather strange Sad to say, I am actually not familiar enough with the several other Dayton suburbs listed to make a judgment. well then get busy! j/k oh and for now i'll leave dayton a square, but probably change it another dozen times in the future
June 6, 200520 yr My home town of Aurora is an intersection, but an intersection of Aurora Rd, Chillicothe Rd. and Pioneer Trl. The town also kinda centers around E. Garfield Rd (82) where it crosses over the Chagrin River (Aurora Branch). One might also make the argument that it's a triangle with intersections at it's points where state routes 43, 82, and 306 all intersect. But let's keep things simple and call it an intersection.
June 6, 200520 yr I'm not sure if villages qualify for the list, but Sharon Center has a beautiful town square, which is actually a traffic circle. looking at the map, i'd say it looks more like an intersection than a square. similiar to troy's situation. for now i'll leave it without a listing but unless you really can bring up a case for square, it'll be intersection I don't have any pictures, and can't find any online in a decent little google-fest, but the area inside the traffic circle is fairly large, with a beautiful gazebo. Every Memorial Day the band marches up a big-ass hill to the square, where someone reads the Gettysburg address - the band, the crowd and the dignitaries all fit in the circle. The Sharon Center Public Square Historic District is 60 acres, comprising the square, six buildings and one structure (the gazebo, I assume). It's definitely the heart of the town, with administration buildings around the outside of the square (I think there's a fire department and the admin building around it, along with a church or two, a furniture store, and I'm not sure what else). I'll see if I can scare up some pictures somewhere, but it's definitely much more than just an intersection... Not sure what happened with the Litchfield link (works for me) - it's west of Medina, right at 18 and 83 - but that is probably more of an intersection - I think the circle's pretty tight, and just has a big memorial in the center of it, if memory serves...
June 7, 200520 yr North Ridgeville has a main street. Avon has a main street. Avon -on the- Lake has an intersection. Lakewood has a main street. North Royalton has a main street. Rocky River has a main stree. Bay Village has an intersection. North Olmstead has a main street. Westlake has main street/ intersection combo. Fairview Park has a main street.
June 12, 200520 yr Hey Summit, You forgot: Claridon, East Claridon, Stantontown, Fargo, and Kilbourne. :wink: :-P
June 12, 200520 yr ok, some changes: this week dayton will be an intersection aurora was added North Ridgeville has a main street. Avon has a main street. Avon -on the- Lake has an intersection. Lakewood has a main street. North Royalton has a main street. Rocky River has a main stree. Bay Village has an intersection. North Olmstead has a main street. Westlake has main street/ intersection combo. Fairview Park has a main street. all added and more unknowns were added. magyar, where do those places fit?
June 13, 200520 yr magyar, where do those places fit? They don't. While they actually exist, they combine for a population of 500. I just wanted to pull your chain. :-)
July 1, 200519 yr ok, i have recently looked into some things, and it seems wooster might actually be a square... also, i think sandusky should not be a square, because the courthouse address is 323 something. that really sounds like it is not the center of a town. i'll leave it unknown for now though. also, is mariemont an intersection? it looks like one, but i've never seen it to be sure...
July 2, 200519 yr ^ The "center" of Mariemont is a six-way intersection, but most of the village doesn't bear any relation to it.
July 2, 200519 yr A few more in the Dayton area... Bellbrook has a "center" that is an intersection, though it's almost totally separated from the modern city (the above post about Mariemont reminded me) The following are largely guesses based on aerial photos: Miamisburg- main street West Carrollton- main street(?) Centerville- intersection Riverside- not much, but probably intersection Englewood- intersection (MAYBE... I'm fairly uncertain about this one) Huber Heights- I'm thinkin' "nothing" Vandalia- I am undecided at the moment, but it's under consideration :-) I got to thinking about Kettering and Beavercreek as I described them previously, and based on some logic which I won't detail here, I decided that maybe as long as Kettering can be called an intersection city, Beavercreek can be too. So if it matters, maybe Beavercreek=intersection. The places that elude classification, like Cincinnati, should just be called "main squintersection".
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