@GISguy I think your ride through Ohio City needs a little detour to Church + State ?

 

...and maybe the Dexter ?

Edited August 14, 20204 yr by infrafreak
why not be greedy and ask for the entire street grid

Quick Pic

 

 

26 minutes ago, infrafreak said:

@GISguy I think your ride through Ohio City needs a little detour to Church + State ?

 

...and maybe the Dexter ?

Took a right at the bridge today but I've been venturing into Hingetown for coffee and Larder lately I'll get ya next time lol

Here’s a rendering for the Longhouse village at Church and State that @KJP and @tykaps reported a couple months ago. 

Longhouse village planned for growing Hingetown neighborhood in Cleveland

https://www.cleveland.com/realestate-news/2020/08/longhouse-village-planned-for-growing-hingetown-neighborhood-in-cleveland.html

 

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio — Cleveland developers behind the construction of one of the largest apartment projects in the Hingetown area of the city’s Ohio City neighborhood wants to place a set of unique buildings on what is now a vacant lot.

Graham Veysey and his wife Marika Shioiri-Clark have plans for what they call the “Longhouses at Hingetown,” seven metal structures for people to rent to live or work. The idea is to create a village with the one-and-two-story buildings which will be built as updated versions of Quonset huts, a type of prefabricated building created during World War II.

Veysey and Shioiri-Clark presented the project to a city commission on Thursday. While members did not vote, some expressed concern about the chosen location.

 

 

Edited August 15, 20204 yr by Boomerang_Brian
Added content

3 minutes ago, Boomerang_Brian said:

Here’s a rendering for the Longhouse village at Church and State that @KJP and @tykaps reported a couple months ago. 

Longhouse village planned for growing Hingetown neighborhood in Cleveland

https://www.cleveland.com/realestate-news/2020/08/longhouse-village-planned-for-growing-hingetown-neighborhood-in-cleveland.html

 

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio — Cleveland developers behind the construction of one of the largest apartment projects in the Hingetown area of the city’s Ohio City neighborhood wants to place a set of unique buildings on what is now a vacant lot.

Graham Veysey and his wife Marika Shioiri-Clark have plans for what they call the “Longhouses at Hingetown,” seven metal structures for people to rent to live or work. The idea is to create a village with the one-and-two-story buildings which will be built as updated versions of Quonset huts, a type of prefabricated building created during World War II.

Veysey and Shioiri-Clark presented the project to a city commission on Thursday. While members did not vote, some expressed concern about the chosen location.

 

 

I agree with some of the members. Great idea wrong location! Would love to have something more substantial go in that spot!

3 hours ago, cle_guy90 said:

I agree with some of the members. Great idea wrong location! Would love to have something more substantial go in that spot!

Is it just a quick and dirty way of increasing cash flow from the property?  I believe this type of improvement would qualify for 15 year depreciation; coupled with a 15 year tax deferment, you wouldn't expect a long life for these buildings.

 

Fearless prediction:  They'll be fully amortized and torn down within ten years.

Just now, Dougal said:

Is it just a quick and dirty way of increasing cash flow from the property?  I believe this type of improvement would qualify for 15 year depreciation; coupled with a 15 year tax deferment, you wouldn't expect a long life for these buildings.

 

Fearless prediction:  They'll be fully amortized and torn down within ten years.

I was just typing something similar when you posted this. I don't get the feeling that these are meant to be permanent. Bring some activity to the property and make some money until they're ready to build something more substantial. Better than an open lot until then.

Not all will leave them at once---so you'd have to evict people when the time comes for that more substantial thing. I'd rather not build metal structures there that don't match the surroundings and build something right the first time.  Inappropriate things or buildings --even if temporary are not necessarily better than an empty space. How far do you take the "better than an open lot argument"? (not necessarily you PoshSteve, but all who support that thinking). Would a strip club be acceptable? A square bldg with no windows that is a warehouse? An outpatient drug-rehab facility or homeless shelter?

4 hours ago, PoshSteve said:

I was just typing something similar when you posted this. I don't get the feeling that these are meant to be permanent. Bring some activity to the property and make some money until they're ready to build something more substantial. Better than an open lot until then.

 

Exactly this. Providing cheaper spaces for the artistic community to do their work right in the heart of a new and growing neighborhood - one I'm sure the likes of which would appreciate having more artists and musicians - is an excellent way to draw more people to an inviting center of gravity. These can always get torn down once property values rise high enough and all the surrounding vacant lots are developed. 

 

Besides, in what part of town would these structures "blend with the surrounding buildings?" The whole point is that they're different. The City is taking zero risk by approving this project. It will get amortized in no time and activate the space until a higher and better use comes along.

Edited August 15, 20204 yr by ASP1984

Update on Church + State progress! The alleyway / public space now is somewhat open to pedestrians despite being unfinished, but you can get a great look of the space. I’m so excited for it to be completed.

 

Between the storefronts, residents, teeter totter, giant parking garage murals, splash pad and elevated turf seating ledges, this is going to be quite an active and inviting space. I love everything about this whole development - kudos to everyone who made it happen!!

Quite a few design gimmicks in this LDA designed project. Liking the density though. Hopefully this development team’s next project at Detroit and W25th has a more refined result.

12 hours ago, w28th said:

Quite a few design gimmicks in this LDA designed project. Liking the density though. Hopefully this development team’s next project at Detroit and W25th has a more refined result.

 

I expect Bridgeworks will be similar since it's the same developers-architect team.

I don't see gimmicks. I see modern, progressive architecture. Love the odd blocky look and I appreciate the public space between the buildings. 

 

The intersection of Detroit and 25th demands an iconic building but I'll settle for a smaller scale structure as long as it's visually compelling like Church and State. If KJP is right expect to see something striking there. 

Different design architect for W25th and Detroit thankfully.

On 8/15/2020 at 9:28 PM, w28th said:

Quite a few design gimmicks in this LDA designed project. Liking the density though. Hopefully this development team’s next project at Detroit and W25th has a more refined result.

What do you see as “gimmicky”? 

I understand that this is possibly nip picking for a project with nice density and good street presence, I’m just saying:

 

*The scattered, random box aesthetic has had its day.

*The form and scale are dynamic and interesting enough without the self indulgent facade treatment and clunky material transitions that often define multi-family apartment buildings and mixed use projects today.

 

 

21 hours ago, w28th said:

I understand that this is possibly nip picking for a project with nice density and good street presence, I’m just saying:

 

 

I don't think that's nit-picky.  I think those are good observations that I would agree with in a lot of other projects.  For some reason, it doesn't bother me with this project--perhaps because, as you mention, the density and street presence are so good.

OCP website that is a contractor for this project who, among other things, is installing the facade:

 

"OCP provided extreme attention to detail in order to overcome the obstacles of the most complex exterior the team had encountered. The team successfully tied in the Cupa Slate and Atas Metal panels together from multiple depths. In total, 23,000 pieces of slate were installed requiring 46,000 screws alone."

 

There is also a photo gallery:

In town for the weekend - checking out the scene in Ohio City - Wow!!- there’s so much cool stuff happening down there !!!   Making  my contribution, in the style of @urbanetics_and @ASPhotomanamong other UO notables.....

Views from the Shoreway (was not driving) (Sat. 9-5-20)

 

 

Church+State, The Dexter, The Quarter Phase I and II

 

From Wendy park

 

From Transformer Station 

Gorgeous! 

 

Not to be a downer - but I don't like the fact that they have a banner hanging down the side re: leasing. Shouldn't a project like this be selling itself? Or am I being an idiot? 

5 hours ago, YABO713 said:

Not to be a downer - but I don't like the fact that they have a banner hanging down the side re: leasing. Shouldn't a project like this be selling itself? Or am I being an idiot? 

 

?

16 hours ago, YABO713 said:

Not to be a downer - but I don't like the fact that they have a banner hanging down the side re: leasing. Shouldn't a project like this be selling itself? Or am I being an idiot? 

There are towers in NYC that have 20 story banners on them for years announcing leasing. People need direction even if the product is great.

17 hours ago, YABO713 said:

Not to be a downer - but I don't like the fact that they have a banner hanging down the side re: leasing. Shouldn't a project like this be selling itself? Or am I being an idiot? 

I reject the general proposition that advertising is worrying.

 

But on another level, isn’t hanging a big banner on the building basically...the building “selling itself?” ?

I am not super interested in the back and forth regarding design elements up-thread. But if one compares the fake shipping container motif used here (the white part of the facade) against the Link59 building in midtown (the orange part of the facade that features fake hardware), this is a clear winner. 

22 hours ago, math said:

I am not super interested in the back and forth regarding design elements up-thread. But if one compares the fake shipping container motif used here (the white part of the facade) against the Link59 building in midtown (the orange part of the facade that features fake hardware), this is a clear winner. 

 

Facades come and go. The variation in urban form is what makes me so excited about this project. On that basis alone I'd consider it to be a smashing success, even though I'm personally a fan of the facade. I also appreciate how the photos above show 4-5 different types of facades within the same frame. The variation is great.

took my jog in and around the alleyway yesterday. SO. FREAKING. COOL. 

In really enjoying the playfulness of this project with its slide and seesaw. And I can't wait to see the alley between the buildings leased out with retail/restaurants!

 

 

Edited January 3, 20214 yr by tykaps
Pics deleted because I'm out of storage

10 hours ago, tykaps said:

In really enjoying the playfulness of this project with its slide and seesaw. And I can't wait to see the alley between the buildings leased out with retail/restaurants!

 

FROM THE PARKING GARAGE. Lol. Brilliant. 

 

Edited September 30, 20204 yr by ASP1984

4 minutes ago, ASP1984 said:

 

FROM THE PARKING GARAGE. Lol. Brilliant. 

 

 

Yeah yeah, I had that last February! ? 

 

The atrium, where interaction is encouraged by design, has lots of interactive features sought by young people. It has everything from a 10-spout water park/fountain, sitting steps for performers, a 17-foot red corkscrew spiral slide and a six-story-tall rock climbing wall on Church to be managed on weekends and holidays by Cleveland Rocks that's redeveloping the old Masonic Hall nearby on Franklin Boulevard.

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2020/02/ohio-citys-churchstate-rising-to-be.html

Edited September 30, 20204 yr by KJP

1 hour ago, KJP said:

 

Yeah yeah, I had that last February! ? 

 

The atrium, where interaction is encouraged by design, has lots of interactive features sought by young people. It has everything from a 10-spout water park/fountain, sitting steps for performers, a 17-foot red corkscrew spiral slide and a six-story-tall rock climbing wall on Church to be managed on weekends and holidays by Cleveland Rocks that's redeveloping the old Masonic Hall nearby on Franklin Boulevard.

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2020/02/ohio-citys-churchstate-rising-to-be.html

Any insight into potential tenants yet? I know you’ve been getting radio silence upon inquiries. I’m wondering if maybe some of these will remain vacant until there’s a light at the end of the Covid tunnel?

50 minutes ago, BJBaes said:

Any insight into potential tenants yet? I know you’ve been getting radio silence upon inquiries. I’m wondering if maybe some of these will remain vacant until there’s a light at the end of the Covid tunnel?

 

No. I won't be able to get anything directly from Veysey et al regarding potential tenants.

8 hours ago, KJP said:

 

No. I won't be able to get anything directly from Veysey et al regarding potential tenants.

 

Why not?  Did you tick them off with an earlier article that spilled beans they weren't ready to spill? Lol.

57 minutes ago, jeremyck01 said:

 

Why not?  Did you tick them off with an earlier article that spilled beans they weren't ready to spill? Lol.

 

Nah. I've found that developers who are willing to speak about sensitive things like properties they're interested in, possible development partnerships, and sources of financing will never open up about the tenant mix they're pursuing. 

Litt's review of Church and State is VERY positive.  Unfortunately they paywalled it:

 

Church and State project sets higher standard for architecture of new apartment buildings in Cleveland

 

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2020/10/church-and-state-project-sets-higher-standard-for-architecture-of-new-apartment-buildings-in-cleveland.html

 

Summary (paraphrase with some quotes):

It's great that many people are moving back to city neighborhoods.  Unfortunately most of the new architecture sucks and looks cheap.

"But there’s a strong new exception to the dull vernacular in Cleveland: Church and State, the 158-unit apartment complex completed recently between Detroit and Church avenues in the block between West 28th and West 29th Street, which used to be called State Street."

"...[this] project provides a jolt of fresh thinking about what an apartment building in Cleveland could be."

"While some new apartment buildings in Cleveland have thin, cardboardy facades that appear inches thick, the surfaces of Church and State push forward and back as much as five to seven feet, said Dominick Durante, Jr., founder and president of LDA."

Adds comments that Panzica estimates the design added 5% to the cost, but they believe that the superior design will drive lower vacancy rates and therefore pay for itself.

 

"The white and gray blocks could have been arranged like a checkerboard, but that would have been heavy-handed and boring. Instead, the different blocks have an asymmetrical arrangement that gives the buildings dynamism and movement."

 

Really there were lots of positive comments here - I'm just trying not to run afoul of the three-paragraph copyright rule.  (Note that if you use a PC, you can view one (+?) paywalled articles per month.)

 

Litt also comments that the extra width of Detroit between 28th and 29th for the old streetcar trench makes the height work better.  There are also some forward looking comments on Bridgeworks (northeast corner of Detroit and 25th) - basically that this development team set the bar high and he is looking forward to what they propose there.

 

Also, if you want a good laugh, check out the reaction on the Facebook "Cleveland - Our Architectural Legacy" group to this article.  Yikes.  (That said, that group is a great join for wonderful Cleveland pictures.)

 

Article includes a couple pictures, here's one from an angle I hadn't seen before:

 

 

Could someone explain what is going on with the pool? That is the first time I’ve seen a pic of it and it’s not what I expected.

46 minutes ago, cle_guy90 said:

Could someone explain what is going on with the pool? That is the first time I’ve seen a pic of it and it’s not what I expected.

Tactfully expressed! 

1 hour ago, cle_guy90 said:

Could someone explain what is going on with the pool? That is the first time I’ve seen a pic of it and it’s not what I expected.

 

The article describes it as a "dipping pool".

1 hour ago, cle_guy90 said:

Could someone explain what is going on with the pool? That is the first time I’ve seen a pic of it and it’s not what I expected.

 

Could be a hot tub or something

12 hours ago, Boomerang_Brian said:

Litt's review of Church and State is VERY positive.  Unfortunately they paywalled it:

 

Church and State project sets higher standard for architecture of new apartment buildings in Cleveland

 

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2020/10/church-and-state-project-sets-higher-standard-for-architecture-of-new-apartment-buildings-in-cleveland.html

 

Summary (paraphrase with some quotes):

It's great that many people are moving back to city neighborhoods.  Unfortunately most of the new architecture sucks and looks cheap.

"But there’s a strong new exception to the dull vernacular in Cleveland: Church and State, the 158-unit apartment complex completed recently between Detroit and Church avenues in the block between West 28th and West 29th Street, which used to be called State Street."

"...[this] project provides a jolt of fresh thinking about what an apartment building in Cleveland could be."

"While some new apartment buildings in Cleveland have thin, cardboardy facades that appear inches thick, the surfaces of Church and State push forward and back as much as five to seven feet, said Dominick Durante, Jr., founder and president of LDA."

Adds comments that Panzica estimates the design added 5% to the cost, but they believe that the superior design will drive lower vacancy rates and therefore pay for itself.

 

"The white and gray blocks could have been arranged like a checkerboard, but that would have been heavy-handed and boring. Instead, the different blocks have an asymmetrical arrangement that gives the buildings dynamism and movement."

 

Really there were lots of positive comments here - I'm just trying not to run afoul of the three-paragraph copyright rule.  (Note that if you use a PC, you can view one (+?) paywalled articles per month.)

 

Litt also comments that the extra width of Detroit between 28th and 29th for the old streetcar trench makes the height work better.  There are also some forward looking comments on Bridgeworks (northeast corner of Detroit and 25th) - basically that this development team set the bar high and he is looking forward to what they propose there.

 

Also, if you want a good laugh, check out the reaction on the Facebook "Cleveland - Our Architectural Legacy" group to this article.  Yikes.  (That said, that group is a great join for wonderful Cleveland pictures.)

 

Article includes a couple pictures, here's one from an angle I hadn't seen before:

 

 

“Also, if you want a good laugh, check out the reaction on the Facebook "Cleveland - Our Architectural Legacy" group to this article.  Yikes.  (That said, that group is a great join for wonderful Cleveland pictures.)”

 

This. Just had the pleasure of stumbling upon that group’s comment thread. I’ve noticed a pattern of overwhelmingly  negative reactions to just about all new construction on their page, but this one is viscerally beyond the pale. I take that as a sign that the designers got it right!  ?

 

2 hours ago, KJP said:

 

Beautiful. I just knew they weren't going to leave it as bare concrete! 

We need about two dozen new buildings similar to this one. So very eclectic!!

16 hours ago, KJP said:

 

Love to see artwork infused in a creative way  - this example  is striking. Strangely, it seems to underscore the gray and white two-tone palette of Church & State.  it makes me wish there had been a little something of a coordinated color infused into the building itself - maybe some of that sky blue - but, of course, that’s a very subjective thought. I can tell you first hand from a recent visit to the site that Church and State looks simultaneously  commanding and playful  in person. 
I’d definitely sign on for a few more of similar design. 

Isn't it a bit early to put this in the completed section?  I was under the impression that people have not moved in yet and that there is still work to do.

Looks cool at night too ?

13 hours ago, jeremyck01 said:

Isn't it a bit early to put this in the completed section?  I was under the impression that people have not moved in yet and that there is still work to do.

 

There are a lot of projects that are structurally complete that people haven't moved in yet in this section.  Cincinnati's The Blonde, for example.  The "complete" is the actual structure, not the move-in time.

On 10/14/2020 at 8:31 AM, ColDayMan said:

 

There are a lot of projects that are structurally complete that people haven't moved in yet in this section.  Cincinnati's The Blonde, for example.  The "complete" is the actual structure, not the move-in time.

 

I understand, however I thought there was also construction work to still be done.  Perhaps it's just the build out of the bottom commercial spaces that remains.  

On 10/16/2020 at 1:09 AM, jeremyck01 said:

 

I understand, however I thought there was also construction work to still be done.  Perhaps it's just the build out of the bottom commercial spaces that remains.  

 

That and some of the interactive stuff that's going in the public area between the two buildings.