They are also looking to grow their own vegetables on their rooftop, which seems pretty green to me.  I am totally amazed at the amount of flack this restaurant is taking simply because it isn't vegetarian.  Great... it could be MORE green if it was a vegetarean joint, but geez... can we please stop trying to take away from the astounding job this restaurant has done in green practices simply because it ISN'T vegetarean.

 

I know their fries are cooked in duck fat.  I don't care, they are delicious.  I don't think they are trying to decieve anyone... They AREN'T a vegetarean place.

*lifts up dead horse to beat it again*  Fries being cooked in duck fat is from the French. It's a standard, traditional European way of cooking frites.  Many professional chefs train in the classic French techniques (Escoffier). It's not about duplicity.  Everyone is not out to get vegetarians, neither are all restaurateurs inclined to cater to their needs, if that's not their wont.

 

See:

http://www.ochef.com/699.htm

http://www.seriouseats.com/2008/05/where-to-find-duck-fat-fries-across-the-country.html

 

Actually Bar Cento sort of developed a reputation for deceiving people about the fries...., which are the same version...  Ive heard of plenty of vegetarians taking that option (because they were the likely vegetarian option and never realize they are cooked in duck fat (because it isn't mentioned on the menu), and one person that even indicated they were vegetarian, ordered the fries without anybody mentioning anything.  At least at Greenhouse he wised up and put it on the menu (I believe)

edit: it doesn't mention on the menu... (could at least say not vegetarian friendly) well sort of deceiving for french fries..

 

 

Like RockandRoller said, its probably best and easiest when with vegetarians to stay away from Simon/Sawyer influenced places.     

^I love the place- I've said nothing but good things about its food and I appreciate it's green initiatives!!!  I love animal fat-fried things and ordered and loved some oysters (which were most certainly not locally sources)!  I don't really mean any of this a slam on the place- I promise!

 

Just pointing out that anytime anything claims to be "green", it is implicitly saying it is greener than something else.  And if that hypothetical something else is a veg entree at another restaurant- almost any other restaurant- than your locally sourced deliciousness at GHT probably isn't so green by comparison.  I'd guess vegetarians roll their eyes at GHT's "greenness" the same way KJP rolls his eyes at those greenwash BP adds.

Well, we could debate this til the cows come home (HAHAHAHAHAHA) but I think locally raised, pastured meats are VERY "green," equally as green as raising local vegetables.  And veggies often require some sort of pesticide, which isn't very green, so some locally raised meats could be MORE green than veggies.  How much do you know about pastured meats?

^I know very little about anything, especially pastured meats.  I guess I know they eat grass which generally requires no pesticides or fertilizer, so it does indeed sound very green.  I am most certainly not qualified to weigh the greenhouse gas emissions of pastured meats against the resource demands of veggies, so can't say whether they are greener or not...so I concede that in some cases, the meat dish might be as green as the veggie dish.  Now I really just want something fried in duck fat.

 

Most importantly, I'm very proud of myself for moving this discussion to this thread to avoid a bloody axe- those don't look very green at all.

 

 

I'm sure mayday could special order some green axes  :)

Map Boy lives!!!

Formerly MGD is ALIVE!!!

They are also looking to grow their own vegetables on their rooftop, which seems prettygreen to me.  I am totally amazed at the amount of flack this restaurant is taking simply because it isn't vegetarian.  Great... it could be MORE green if it was a vegetarean joint, but geez... can we please stop trying to take away from the astounding job this restaurant has done in green practices simply because it ISN'T vegetarean.

 

I know their fries are cooked in duck fat.  I don't care, they are delicious.  I don't think they are trying to decieve anyone... They AREN'T a vegetarean place.

 

I actually think the restaurant is a turn in the right direction, eventhough I am vegetarian. But I have to ask....Have you ever tried foods that are NOT cooked in animal fat? They're really delicious too.....and much better for you. I can guarantee you that my 'chicken tofu crumbles' will have you asking for seconds and thirds. Too many people are conditioned to think food has to be prepared in grease taste good. They get their taste buds addicted to this acidic, salty, fatty slop.

 

When they wean away from it and actually eat better foods....and then, for tests sake.... if suddenly went back to eating the former... Usually is the case one would think.. "How could I have ever eaten this stuff?"... Coats the mouth with a grease like film...takes more energy to digest fatty foods like this which could mean we actually eating  more due to the lack of fiber or real nutrition content in greasy foods...which in turn, more energy consumed.

 

One thing many of us fail to realize about the meat production---even if it is 'green'... While such can produce a better product which lacks the added chemicals and is 'kinder' (tongue in cheek) in terms of the slaughtering of the animals..... It still presents the problem of actually being unkind for the land itself.

 

Monitoring streams for a long time...one gets a first hands look at what such production contributes to rivers. Industrialization of foods, even if produced 'green' is not without harm.  Do like Michael Pollack wrote in "IN DEFENSE OF FOOD"

 

At the end of the day, and I know we cannot account for all the variables......the best thing we can do to go green is try to develop a sustainable and healthy veg diet...Or limit your meat intake to it being a small side dish once or twice a week...and not a big main dish where this huge hunk of muscle flesh is in the center of the plate. Thomas Jefferson suggested consuming meat as more of a 'condiment'

 

Oh, Don't worry anyone....I won't 'slaughter the sacred cow' and suggest not to have kids and instead do like the Australian Aborigines with their voluntary extinction philosophy.

 

Although not perfect...I do think Green House is a move in the right direction.

 

Last food for thought...think of the energy consumption that would be needed to keep alive a sickly society. Does anyone really begin to put that into dollars and sense and energy used?

I have tried all types of food, and enjoy several vegetarian options.  But... I'm a carnivore.  I really, really, really like meat. Substantially more than non meat foods. Sorry, simply my perogative.

It's Michael Pollan, and he does not suggest one should to eat a strictly vegetarian diet. 

 

"Have you ever tried foods that are NOT cooked in animal fat?"

I assume this is facetious, unless you think I have never had french fries anywhere else than GHT or Bar Cento.  There are PLENTY of places that don't fry anything in animal fat, what a silly statement.

 

I don't care to like your tofu crumbles. I'm glad you think they're good, I'll be over here eating pork belly and foie on toast points.  Everything in moderation is the key to my dietary life, and that means EVERYTHING, not exclusively meat nor exclusively vegetarian.  You assume that everyone who eats meat eats it at every meal, and always has "greasy" or "fried" something.  This is the kind of attitude that drives non-vegetarians BATTY and does nothing to further your cause. 

Well, we could debate this til the cows come home (HAHAHAHAHAHA) but I think locally raised, pastured meats are VERY "green," equally as green as raising local vegetables. And veggies often require some sort of pesticide, which isn't very green, so some locally raised meats could be MORE green than veggies. How much do you know about pastured meats?

 

The problem that I have with the vegetable vs. animal debate is how far do you go?  I want to eat meat b/c I enjoy it.  Just b/c one person doesn't think it's "green" in their eyes, doesn't mean that I have to change my way of life.

 

What did I do "green" today?

I chose to live in a sustainable environment in which I can walk to the grocery store, entertainment and restaurants.  That adds up to more that most will ever do.

They are also looking to grow their own vegetables on their rooftop, which seems prettygreen to me. I am totally amazed at the amount of flack this restaurant is taking simply because it isn't vegetarian. Great... it could be MORE green if it was a vegetarian joint, but geez... can we please stop trying to take away from the astounding job this restaurant has done in green practices simply because it ISN'T vegetarean.

 

I know their fries are cooked in duck fat. I don't care, they are delicious. I don't think they are trying to decieve anyone... They AREN'T a vegetarean place.

 

I actually think the restaurant is a turn in the right direction, eventhough I am vegetarian. But I have to ask....Have you ever tried foods that are NOT cooked in animal fat? They're really delicious too.....and much better for you. I can guarantee you that my 'chicken tofu crumbles' will have you asking for seconds and thirds. ...

 

Isn't this an oxymoron?

I'm sure it's "chik'n" like some sort of fake substitute meat product.  If I were a vegetarian, I'd eat vegetables, fruits, grains and beans.  eating "meat-like" things as a vegetarian to me is about as logical as all the "no sugar" bakery and sweets that diabetics eat.  You're not really changing your eating habits if you're just trying to find a substitute for what you really want, are you.

I'm sure it's "chik'n" like some sort of fake substitute meat product.  If I were a vegetarian, I'd eat vegetables, fruits, grains and beans.  eating "meat-like" things as a vegetarian to me is about as logical as all the "no sugar" bakery and sweets that diabetics eat.  You're not really changing your eating habits if you're just trying to find a substitute for what you really want, are you.

http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:86agyMtJ0xoJ:seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2008611979_obama10.html

 

Michelle Obama’s mother:

 

As for the organic foods the Obamas favor? "That's not my thing," said Robinson, who enjoys salty fried foods and dismissed efforts to make such dishes more healthful. "If you're going to have fried chicken," she said, "have fried chicken."

The problem that I have with the vegetable vs. animal debate is how far do you go?  I want to eat meat b/c I enjoy it.  Just b/c one person doesn't think it's "green" in their eyes, doesn't mean that I have to change my way of life.

 

What did I do "green" today?

I chose to live in a sustainable environment in which I can walk to the grocery store, entertainment and restaurants.  That adds up to more that most will ever do.

 

 

Don't worry, no one here is trying to take away anyone's meat.  And thankfully, only one person is trying to push their chicken tofu crumbles...

 

But I do concede to our vegetarian friends that their food choices are generally much less resource intensive.  Which means not eating meat counts just as much as taking the rapid or walking or biking to work when it comes to a "sustainable" life style.  Which is really confusing...am I allowed to resent a vegetarian driving a hum-vee?

 

not resouce-intensive if you eat pastured meats.  Here's an overview:

 

http://www.sustainabletable.org/issues/pasture/

I'm sure it's "chik'n" like some sort of fake substitute meat product. If I were a vegetarian, I'd eat vegetables, fruits, grains and beans. eating "meat-like" things as a vegetarian to me is about as logical as all the "no sugar" bakery and sweets that diabetics eat. You're not really changing your eating habits if you're just trying to find a substitute for what you really want, are you.

http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:86agyMtJ0xoJ:seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2008611979_obama10.html

 

Michelle Obama’s mother:

 

As for the organic foods the Obamas favor? "That's not my thing," said Robinson, who enjoys salty fried foods and dismissed efforts to make such dishes more healthful. "If you're going to have fried chicken," she said, "have fried chicken."

 

I have to agree with that, although there is nothing that says organic=low fat/sodium.  If I raise my own pig and cow without any chemicals and then milk the cow and slaughter them both to make a bacon cheeseburger, I've got an organic meal.

^A delicious one.  Particulary if topped with your home-picked cukes.

 

^^Sure, pastured animals are the hybrid SUV's of meat.  Wow, could I torture that analogy any more?

not resouce-intensive if you eat pastured meats. Here's an overview:

 

http://www.sustainabletable.org/issues/pasture/

 

I have no problem with that, but some have argued that the land the animals are grazing on would be better served as land for growing crops.

not resouce-intensive if you eat pastured meats.  Here's an overview:

 

http://www.sustainabletable.org/issues/pasture/

 

I have no problem with that, but some have argued that the land the animals are grazing on would be better served as land for growing crops.

 

If we don't eat the animals, they will have no natural predators and over-run our civilization, much like the deer in my neighborhood, and eat all those crops. And don't get me started with the methane they'll produce which will destroy our ozone layer (what's left of it).

 

If you don't let them eat the crops, then you're resigning them to a slow and painful death by starvation, and ultimately extinction. PETA won't be happy. Nope, from my standpoint, eating them is a win win.

 

XUMelanie and I are doing the easiest and most rewarding thing to go green - we live urban.  We average less than $170/month on gas, water and electric combined (even less this summer with the nice weather) which seems to be a lot less resource usage than our suburban friends/family.  We also walk to work which reduces our CO₂ emissions (and gasoline bills).  While it wasn't our main reason moving downtown it sure is a nice bonus.

It uses all local ingredients, meaning it reaps what the land and growers sow.  How is that not green?

 

lets open the flood gates on 'green'

how about a 'green' hamburger?  what the *^$ does that look like in terms of farm to table?  for one, the cow wouldn't be fed corn meal for 90% of its life - it's simply unsustainable.....!  chef sawyer is aware of the issue and is experimenting with solutions.  this is only the tip of the iceberg.

 

although i'm no veg,  i strongly agree with MapBoy's assertion that a Green restaurant should provide low-impact veg options on the menu.

 

not sure why X got so testy......

It uses all local ingredients, meaning it reaps what the land and growers sow.  How is that not green?

 

lets open the flood gates on 'green'

how about a 'green' hamburger?  what the *^$ does that look like in terms of farm to table?  for one, the cow wouldn't be fed corn meal for 90% of its life - it's simply unsustainable.....!  chef sawyer is aware of the issue and is experimenting with solutions.  this is only the tip of the iceberg.

 

although i'm no veg,  i strongly agree with MapBoy's assertion that a Green restaurant should provide low-impact veg options on the menu.

 

not sure why X got so testy......

 

I think he's running low on pimp juice.  But I'm not one to gossip.

And don't get me started with the methane they'll produce which will destroy our ozone layer (what's left of it).

 

 

The methane is tied directly to over production, yes PRODUCTION of meat as well as what the cows are eating, largely corn; a food not meant to be eaten by ruminant (multiple stomachs to break down cellulose, ala goats, sheep, cows, alpaca, etc) animals and therefore a cause for excess gas.

not resouce-intensive if you eat pastured meats.  Here's an overview:

 

http://www.sustainabletable.org/issues/pasture/

 

I have no problem with that, but some have argued that the land the animals are grazing on would be better served as land for growing crops.

 

If we don't eat the animals, they will have no natural predators and over-run our civilization, much like the deer in my neighborhood, and eat all those crops. And don't get me started with the methane they'll produce which will destroy our ozone layer (what's left of it).

 

If you don't let them eat the crops, then you're resigning them to a slow and painful death by starvation, and ultimately extinction. PETA won't be happy. Nope, from my standpoint, eating them is a win win.

 

 

Just looking at this quickly..and forgive me if I misinterpret..But this logic is silly to say the least. Livestock is man made..  would not be here if not bred. There is nothing 'natural' about the industrialization of commercial meat production. This mass production is an 'artificial eco-system' that does real nature no benefit..and the fact they're raised to be subjected to such cruelty, in the name of profit and 'taste' makes me question the evolution stage of humans. If we didn't 'eat them' and just quit breeding them....they would not be. The rest could go retire in petting zoos.

It's Michael Pollan, and he does not suggest one should to eat a strictly vegetarian diet. 

 

"Have you ever tried foods that are NOT cooked in animal fat?"

I assume this is facetious, unless you think I have never had french fries anywhere else than GHT or Bar Cento.  There are PLENTY of places that don't fry anything in animal fat, what a silly statement.

 

I don't care to like your tofu crumbles. I'm glad you think they're good, I'll be over here eating pork belly and foie on toast points.  Everything in moderation is the key to my dietary life, and that means EVERYTHING, not exclusively meat nor exclusively vegetarian.  You assume that everyone who eats meat eats it at every meal, and always has "greasy" or "fried" something.  This is the kind of attitude that drives non-vegetarians BATTY and does nothing to further your cause. 

 

Thanks for the name correction, although irreverent to the point I was making. I also did not suggest that he suggested eating nothing but veg..But he DOES suggest eating mostly plants...AND...not eating meat as main courses...which was my point.

I have tried all types of food, and enjoy several vegetarian options.  But... I'm a carnivore.  I really, really, really like meat. Substantially more than non meat foods. Sorry, simply my perogative.

 

Self proclaimed, maybe.....but by nature we are not a true carnivore. People started eating meat because of climate changes, food shortage, and maybe even laziness.... but it was not their main diet. So what?... cavemen ate meat. I heard that a million times. Are we still cavemen? Or have we evolved? ....Do we have incisors that are designed to tear meat off bones...Or a longer snout that can reach up inside carcases and go after the intestines, liver, heart, lungs, etc.... Do we have ravishing claws and a big jaw to bring down your prey, or the speed to do so? Is our intestine short like a carnivore..or long like an herbivore..... Is out saliva acidic like carnivores, or more alkaline like an herbivore?... All physiology points into the direction that we are mostly if not all herbivore..... the only thing we have that makes us a great carnivore is a a brain...a gun and a slaughterhouse. People eat meat because they can....Not because they have too, or need to. Remember... I ate at all the beefy places too... Then something happened. I started thinking things over. If we're true carnivores, lets see how the fight goes between man without a gun, and wildebeest...just two bare brute animals battling it out. It always makes it easier to remove ourselves from such a process.

 

But hey... I am not stopping anyone.....knock yourselves out...Just be good to your heart.

^why is it I never ever bring this stuff up to my vegetarean friends... but yet somehow I always get lectured about my PERSONAL PREFERENCE.  I like meat.  I eat meat.  Therefore i am a carnivore.

XUMelanie and I are doing the easiest and most rewarding thing to go green - we live urban. We average less than $170/month on gas, water and electric combined (even less this summer with the nice weather) which seems to be a lot less resource usage than our suburban friends/family. We also walk to work which reduces our CO₂ emissions (and gasoline bills). While it wasn't our main reason moving downtown it sure is a nice bonus.

 

This.

 

I drive a 4-cylinder car and will be walking to work when I've completed my move to Akron.  I'll have a modest downtown apartment in a large building (so many shared walls to trap heat and cold) and be living with a roommate (so the same amount of electricity is heating & cooling two people instead of one).

 

Set against that, other things, like using CF bulbs or recycling (both of which I do when I can) are basically rounding errors.

 

There's another thing that I wish I could do to go green, but it's not my decision: I wish more business trips could be supplanted by videoconferencing.  As I said, not my decision--company says I go, I go.

^But seriously, you really need to try the chicken tofu crumble.

 

Not to put words in their mouths, but I suppose environmentally motivated vegetarians just want equal time as the pro-mass transit crowd when it comes to proselytizing.  If you find their appeals annoying and unpersuasive, it's a pretty good window into how suburban drivers of gas guzzlers probably feel about case many folks here make for urban living.

"just two bare brute animals battling it out."

 

Oh pish-posh, I could totally take out a veal calf with one well-placed kick. :lol: (I'm completely joking of course).

 

I don't disregard the health benefits of a more vegetarian diet, and I certainly support a more localized and organic food supply, and when meat is involved - that as little cruelty as possible is inflicted. Still, I'm going to enjoy the occasional burger or steak.

 

As far as making sure every molecule of food entering my body is beneficial for my health... the way I see it, whether it's old age, a runaway bus, cancer, an aneurysm in my case - likely while pruning an off-topic thread on this forum, *something* will eventually end your life and we're all going to eventually drop dead. Sure, I could avoid the sun at all costs and slather on 30SPF sunscreen every 5 seconds - so I can be 90 years old and pasty? Sure, I could eat a purely vegan diet - but I'd never know the joy that is haloumi (or Danish blue, or Pecorino Romano) cheese. I do plenty to minimize my carbon footprint (car-free for five years, car-lite for four years, recycling just about everything recyclable, CFLs, buy locally when possible, etc.), but I enjoy living and a big part of that is all the glorious foods I enjoy (vegetarian or otherwise).

 

But (and since it may not be obvious - I'm simply relaying some less than pleasant experiences I've had with vegans/vegetarians) don't try and foist off "Tofu-rkey" as tasty as a well basted/brined turkey at Thanksgiving (directed at the hippie knuckleheads who tried to convince me otherwise back at Kent State). I've had some great tofu dishes - one that comes to mind is the tofu appetizer at Pad Thai (Hudson/Fairlawn) with spicy peanut sauce. But tofur-crap is vile, flat out vile.

 

And if you're a pasty gay vegan at the designated "single people table" at a lesbian wedding reception in the mid-90s in Akron who decides that vegetarian lasagna just isn't "pure" enough for you, and you've asked the servers at a rinkydink event center if you could see the industrial sized container of pancake mix (since that's all they could offer you) just so you can scan the ingredients and scoff sanctimoniously because even THAT's not good enough - do you think it's a great idea to 1. get preachy about the evils of meat and 2. subsequently hit on - the guy enjoying his steak (aka ME)?!? I mean, what the hell was he thinking? Dinner dates?!?!?

It uses all local ingredients, meaning it reaps what the land and growers sow.  How is that not green?

 

lets open the flood gates on 'green'

how about a 'green' hamburger?  what the *&#^$ does that look like in terms of farm to table?  for one, the cow wouldn't be fed corn meal for 90% of its life - it's simply unsustainable.....!  chef sawyer is aware of the issue and is experimenting with solutions.  this is only the tip of the iceberg.

 

although i'm no veg,  i strongly agree with MapBoy's assertion that a Green restaurant should provide low-impact veg options on the menu.

 

not sure why X got so testy......

 

I think he's running low on pimp juice.  But I'm not one to gossip.

 

I'll never run out of pimp juice! 

 

My "testiness" was because I see someone breaking some new ground here, and many people (mapboy was just the latest to make this exact same statement) are complaining because he didn't take it all the way in the direction that they would have liked to have seen.  I certainly think there's room for people to criticize, but why target someone who is making important strides when so many others have done nothing to advance the art?  It's like slapping the top student in the class because he didn't get all the answers right.  And the critics haven't even taken that test themselves!

 

 

"It's like slapping the top student in the class because he didn't get all the answers right.  And the critics haven't even taken that test themselves!"

 

So, so, so wonderfully put.

I've tried to split off the Greenhouse Tavern/vegetarianism discussion onto a new thread, as I think it warrants it.  Please continue any discussion of it there.  Hopefully everything is still clear on both thread.

OK, I've split discussion on this topic off from two other boards and combined it here into it's own thread, because it was getting somewhat off topic, but is a good discussion.  Continue!

With all the talk of lack of vegetarian options, I thought this was interesting, from restaurant row. 

From an interview with Chrissie Hynde regarding her veggy restaurant in Akron "VegiTerranean". 

"... My only interest in it is the cow protection and also to bring life back into the downtown," Hynde told writer Jon Bream. He adds that she wants to open restaurants in other cities with depressed downtowns and no vegetarian eateries.

 

Now wouldn't Cleveland be an obvious choice for her?  Common Marons.. corner spot.. 

 

:

I think that'd be great.  She already has a brand established here in NEO.  We should write her.

^Agreed, especially if they find a space that offers something comparable to the Akron's outdoor terraces.

And don't get me started with the methane they'll produce which will destroy our ozone layer (what's left of it).

 

 

 

 

The methane is tied directly to over production, yes PRODUCTION of meat as well as what the cows are eating, largely corn; a food not meant to be eaten by ruminant (multiple stomachs to break down cellulose, ala goats, sheep, cows, alpaca, etc) animals and therefore a cause for excess gas.

not resouce-intensive if you eat pastured meats.  Here's an overview:

 

http://www.sustainabletable.org/issues/pasture/

 

I have no problem with that, but some have argued that the land the animals are grazing on would be better served as land for growing crops.

 

If we don't eat the animals, they will have no natural predators and over-run our civilization, much like the deer in my neighborhood, and eat all those crops. And don't get me started with the methane they'll produce which will destroy our ozone layer (what's left of it).

 

If you don't let them eat the crops, then you're resigning them to a slow and painful death by starvation, and ultimately extinction. PETA won't be happy. Nope, from my standpoint, eating them is a win win.

 

 

Just looking at this quickly..and forgive me if I misinterpret..But this logic is silly to say the least. Livestock is man made..  would not be here if not bred. There is nothing 'natural' about the industrialization of commercial meat production. This mass production is an 'artificial eco-system' that does real nature no benefit..and the fact they're raised to be subjected to such cruelty, in the name of profit and 'taste' makes me question the evolution stage of humans. If we didn't 'eat them' and just quit breeding them....they would not be. The rest could go retire in petting zoos.

 

Oy vey. Yes, I subscribe to the theory that if we don't eat the cows, some day we will be ruled by them. And I, for one, welcome our new bovine overlords  :roll:

 

 

 

(I was being a smart-@ss for a quick chuckle, guys. Apparently I failed)

"I think they went downhill once the focus of the restaurant started to be Val's career and not fresh, healthy food."

 

I'm inclined to agree - while it's unfortunate, I certainly can't and don't begrudge them for that, given how far Val has gone in her career. I was a regular there for quite some time and like you said, some of the tweaks you mentioned had a detrimental effect on the product and/or service. I think with the momentum of East 4th, 668 Euclid, etc. the space won't stay empty for long.

 

Without divulging too much, Octane was in trouble from the moment it opened. I give the owner credit for making a go of it as long as he did. They never got the level of business they projected, and the expected benefit of franchising never really materialized. Val's career actually was one of the things that kept the store in business (she would use some of her winnings to subsidize the place).

 

Sorry to hear it's not around anymore.

AJ93, youve motivated me to buy a new pair of shoes.  :wink:

Oy vey. Yes, I subscribe to the theory that if we don't eat the cows, some day we will be ruled by them. And I, for one, welcome our new bovine overlords :roll:

 

I bet the cows could figure out how to deliver on universal health care.

What's this career, now?

Val: http://www.tvguide.com/tvshows/american-gladiators/photos/199734/95

Ahhh, thanks.  That's frightening, yet strangely intriguing.

I have tried all types of food, and enjoy several vegetarian options.  But... I'm a carnivore.  I really, really, really like meat. Substantially more than non meat foods. Sorry, simply my perogative.

 

Self proclaimed, maybe.....but by nature we are not a true carnivore. People started eating meat because of climate changes, food shortage, and maybe even laziness.... but it was not their main diet. So what?... cavemen ate meat. I heard that a million times. Are we still cavemen? Or have we evolved? ....Do we have incisors that are designed to tear meat off bones...Or a longer snout that can reach up inside carcases and go after the intestines, liver, heart, lungs, etc.... Do we have ravishing claws and a big jaw to bring down your prey, or the speed to do so? Is our intestine short like a carnivore..or long like an herbivore..... Is out saliva acidic like carnivores, or more alkaline like an herbivore?... All physiology points into the direction that we are mostly if not all herbivore..... the only thing we have that makes us a great carnivore is a a brain...a gun and a slaughterhouse. People eat meat because they can....Not because they have too, or need to. Remember... I ate at all the beefy places too... Then something happened. I started thinking things over. If we're true carnivores, lets see how the fight goes between man without a gun, and wildebeest...just two bare brute animals battling it out. It always makes it easier to remove ourselves from such a process.

 

But hey... I am not stopping anyone.....knock yourselves out...Just be good to your heart.

 

Current Physiology dictates this yes, but we have evolved thanks to that grey muscle between the ears to make tools and use them.  The opposable thumb allows a human to reach and grab to pull things to their mouth as opposed to a wolf that will need to use their mouth to make the same eating motion.  While I would agree that there may be an overconsumption of meat in our modern world, it is foolish to say that we are by nature vegetarians.

 

For a more in-depth read (and I should note that I only skimmed this as I don't think work would like me spending the entire day read this) http://www.beyondveg.com/billings-t/comp-anat/comp-anat-1a.shtml

 

Imagine, a pro-vegetarian website providing a proof that we are not vegetarians by nature.

I'm in the mood for a steak.  Anyone?

I had an amazing steak at L'Albatross.  Oh man, I'm hungry.

I had an amazing steak at L'Albatross.  Oh man, I'm hungry.

 

Just curious, were there any/many veggy options there?  I have it on my list for the next visit, but I will likely have my vegetarian friend with me.