Menu is online: www.albatrosbrasserie.com

My "testiness" was because I see someone breaking some new ground here, and many people (mapboy was just the latest to make this exact same statement) are complaining because he didn't take it all the way in the direction that they would have liked to have seen.  I certainly think there's room for people to criticize, but why target someone who is making important strides when so many others have done nothing to advance the art?  It's like slapping the top student in the class because he didn't get all the answers right.  And the critics haven't even taken that test themselves!

 

Why pick on this place?  Because unlike other restaurants, it conspicuously shouts about its "greenness." Its greenness is part of what it's selling.  And in this era of greenwashing, commercial messages of greenness are most definitely fair game, IMHO, whether they come from BP, Poland Spring or the Greenhouse Tavern. 

 

I've eaten at the place, I like the place and I'll continue eating there because I think the food is great and I get warm and fuzzies knowing that I'm supporting local producers of high quality food.  Or non-local producers in the case of all the seafood.  I'm on board- it's a great meat serving restaurant first and foremost, and within that category, it's definitely very green.  This has been a good discussion.

 

I guess I'm just fascinated by the parallels between environmental vegetarianism and other environmentally friendly behavior that we often discuss here, particularly transportation related.  Every time I hear someone say "I like meat, I'm not going to give it up and I don't care that some restaurants don't do much for vegetarians"- including me much of the time- I can't help wondering how different this is from "I like my single occupancy vehicle commute and suburban house- and I really don't care if I ever step foot in the city again or if this or that new development has transit access."  Discuss.

being green does not implicity imply being "vegetarian".  Why do so many people have to drag it down because of that/  They are a model of "green" they just happen to not be a vegetarian place.  I mean their toilets are solar powered for goodness sake.  :)

She also does motivational speaking, training, etc. I'm pretty sure she doesn't wear the Gladiator costume for that though :lol:

being green does not implicity imply being "vegetarian". Why do so many people have to drag it down because of that/ They are a model of "green" they just happen to not be a vegetarian place. I mean their toilets are solar powered for goodness sake. :)

 

The problem with the sustainability movement is that you can never do enough, you can never satisfy everyone, much like anything in society today, someone will always find the negative.

^Ugh, a bit of a straw man...  I'm not looking to be satisfied- I actually don't care if people eat meat any more than I care about them throwing away recyclables or commuting 50 miles every morning in a Humvee.  Unless their throwing their recyclables from their Humvee onto my front door.

 

McC- I'm really not trying to dump on Greenhouse Tavern.  I really do like the place and do applaud there efforts.  But the connection between meat eating and "greenness" is every bit as tight as automobile driving and "greenness", with the likely exception of the relatively tiny boutique pasture raised meat industry that R&Roller points out- and GHT is great about offering those things.

 

while it's not the majority, there is a lot more pastured meat out there than you think. That's the bulk of what's sold at our local farmers markets, I believe.  Most of the amish do pastured farming, for example.

Do you know how much petroleum it takes to grow vegetables? 

Maybe Greenhouse's intent is to be the most efficient and environmentally conscious restaurant it can be.  That's really all this garbage about being "green" is about:  being efficient, taking what you need, and using what you take.  Anything more than this is just masturbation.

If you really want to be "green" and "sustainable," the best thing one can do is jump off a cliff.  Nothing more inefficient than a living human being.

Do you know how much petroleum it takes to grow vegetables? 

Maybe Greenhouse's intent is to be the most efficient and environmentally conscious restaurant it can be.  That's really all this garbage about being "green" is about:  being efficient, taking what you need, and using what you take.  Anything more than this is just masturbation.

If you really want to be "green" and "sustainable," the best thing one can do is jump off a cliff.  Nothing more inefficient than a living human being.

 

lol...be sure to check the organ donor box on your way down...

 

 

Do you know how much petroleum it takes to grow vegetables?

 

Yup, and a big chunk (most?) of those vegetables go right into feed lots to feed cows and pigs to make meat.

 

I don't know what "taking what you need" means- I'm sure that's what most people think they're doing when they buy gas or an SUV.  Anyway, this is spinning out of control.  This is an issue I don't even care so much about.

 

Rock&Roller, I buy grass-fed meet myself at my local market.  Yes it's a growing market, but it still constitutes a minute portion of meat production and I doubt it could ever be scaled up enough to meet current total meat demand.

Rock&Roller, I buy grass-fed meet myself at my local market. Yes it's a growing market, but it still constitutes a minute portion of meat production and I doubt it could ever be scaled up enough to meet current total meat demand.

 

What do you think people did for meat before there were factory farms? 

Rock&Roller, I buy grass-fed meet myself at my local market. Yes it's a growing market, but it still constitutes a minute portion of meat production and I doubt it could ever be scaled up enough to meet current total meat demand.

 

What do you think people did for meat before there were factory farms?

 

People ate less meat before there were factory farms to make it relatively cheap and abundant.  If we were to move away from meat factories, we would almost certainly have to reduce per-capita consumption.

Do you know how much petroleum it takes to grow vegetables?

Maybe Greenhouse's intent is to be the most efficient and environmentally conscious restaurant it can be. That's really all this garbage about being "green" is about: being efficient, taking what you need, and using what you take. Anything more than this is just masturbation.

If you really want to be "green" and "sustainable," the best thing one can do is jump off a cliff. Nothing more inefficient than a living human being.

.

 

Don't hold back now, how do you really feel?

... I doubt it could ever be scaled up enough to meet current total meat demand.

 

there is no doubt, if cattle were raised only on pasture, there would be far far less meat available.  this would likely be a very very good thing for all Americans, it terms of health & wellness.  in the 70's it took 7 years to raise a calf to slaughter weight (100 lbs to 1200+ lbs); it now takes 14 months.  that is largely due to industrial containment and 'force' feeding; profit focused [capitalism] solutions to a biological constraint.

 

Steak anyone?  ;)

Looks like the name of the new restaurant going into the former Waterhouse spot (/former phil the fire spot / former diamondback brewery spot) is R.J. Boland's.  The sign in the window lists the website http://www.rjbolands.com  but it doesn't appear to be up and running yet.

Looks like the name of the new restaurant going into the former Waterhouse spot (/former phil the fire spot / former diamondback brewery spot) is R.J. Boland's. The sign in the window lists the website http://www.rjbolands.com but it doesn't appear to be up and running yet.

 

I noticed the same thing walking by today. There were 2 guys sitting at a table looking over drawings as well.

the ohio city burrito is not yet open...just rode my bike up there an anticipation of getting one! oh well. here are a few pics of the space.

 

I wanted to say La Boca in Detroit Shoreway is terrific. Everything we had was great, and our party agreed everything (eggplant app, meat/cheese plate,tapenades,  lamb, salmon, pork, rice pudding) was very tasty. Ok our wine was not the best. The wine list was kind of narrow and not to my taste, but they are changing it.

Going back again this weekend even which is rare, b/c I like to try different places.

 

Also the smoked meats on the Garage Bar patio are quite good. Not sure how far into fall they servie that menu though.

 

I agree, La Boca is fantastic!

Haven't tried La Boca yet, but all I'm hearing is good reviews lately, so I'm ready to go!  I like the look of the burrito spot on W. 25th.  I'll have to hit that up when it opens too!  Any word on an opening date?

spoke with the owner last week and he said that he hoped to be open in two weeks but he was waiting on some permits.

I don't have a source or link for info but I've heard a rumor that a Bar Symon may be opening up at the Q. Has anyone heard of anything about this?

 

p.s. Also heard they want to try and open by the beginning of the season.  :?

I vote for a Vegiterranean in Cleveland Heights.

I vote for a Vegiterranean in Cleveland Heights Downtown.

 

Fixed  :wink:

Maybe he wants that to be his regional chain restaurant, an upscale Winking Lizard. 

So I was just in a meeting with the new ownership group of the soon to be R.J. Boland's.  I have to say I was EXTREMELY impressed with what they have in mind.  These are REALLY sharp guys.  And I think this has potentially to be a great addition to the gateway neighborhood.  They are working on some really cool colaborative stuff with the Radison as well...

Good to hear Mayor!  We're very lucky to have you here.  Do disrespect to the countless others who are involved in the community!

Here is an article from Cleveland Scene that talks about a restaurant going in the old diner on Lee Road, and another one at 668 Euclid!

 

http://www.clevescene.com/cleveland/legends-of-the-fall/Content?oid=1638387

Maria's - an Italian restaurant - on Detroit in Lakewood appears to be closed.

Here is an article from Cleveland Scene that talks about a restaurant going in the old diner on Lee Road, and another one at 668 Euclid!

 

http://www.clevescene.com/cleveland/legends-of-the-fall/Content?oid=1638387

 

I love Balthazar, this is great news!

I have heard a rumor about Bar Symon opening at the Q.  Hopefully it becomes reality.

Will the 668 restaurant be packed with models just like Balthazar? :wink:

I have heard a rumor about Bar Symon opening at the Q. Hopefully it becomes reality.

 

just went to bar symon yesterday for dinner. needless to say i won't be back. it's not (in my opinion) a destination restaurant. if you want michael symon food, go to lola or lolita (the latter for better prices). Then take a cab to buckeye beer engine to lakewood for a better beer selection at MUCH better prices.

^why would it be needless for you to say you won't be back?

I don't think the goal of Bar Symon is to be a destination fine dining establishment, but more of a concept for an upscale neighborhood tavern with unique bar food.

^why would it be needless for you to say you won't be back?

 

i live in ohio city, it's a 35 min drive there.

Here is an article from Cleveland Scene that talks about a restaurant going in the old diner on Lee Road, and another one at 668 Euclid!

 

http://www.clevescene.com/cleveland/legends-of-the-fall/Content?oid=1638387

 

Is this on the Euclid or Prospect side?  What about the cafe?

^why would it be needless for you to say you won't be back?

 

i live in ohio city, it's a 35 min drive there.

 

my point was that usually one would say "needless to say I won't be back" after giving a negative review.  In your case, you just said "I went to Bar Symon".  So it would be needful for you to say that you won't be back, because we wouldn't assume that.

^why would it be needless for you to say you won't be back?

 

i live in ohio city, it's a 35 min drive there.

 

my point was that usually one would say "needless to say I won't be back" after giving a negative review. In your case, you just said "I went to Bar Symon". So it would be needful for you to say that you won't be back, because we wouldn't assume that.

 

i'm sorry that the sentence structure impeded your ability to comprehend my statement. next time i'll be sure to run it by my in house editor before i string a set of sentences off cuff right when i get home from work.

 

on another note: i went to ohio city burrito yesterday and it was wonderful. the burrito's are $6.15 for chicken, barbacoa or carnitas (no steak available). they've only been open since this past monday so they are a bit slow on the service as they are still training new employees, but i suspect this will be a great addition to the neighborhood. i'll be going there instead of driving down to steel yard anytime i need gourmet mexican fast food fix. 

^why would it be needless for you to say you won't be back?

 

i live in ohio city, it's a 35 min drive there.

 

my point was that usually one would say "needless to say I won't be back" after giving a negative review.  In your case, you just said "I went to Bar Symon".  So it would be needful for you to say that you won't be back, because we wouldn't assume that.

 

i'm sorry that the sentence structure impeded your ability to comprehend my statement. next time i'll be sure to run it by my in house editor before i string a set of sentences off cuff right when i get home from work.

 

on another note: i went to ohio city burrito yesterday and it was wonderful. the burrito's are $6.15 for chicken, barbacoa or carnitas (no steak available). they've only been open since this past monday so they are a bit slow on the service as they are still training new employees, but i suspect this will be a great addition to the neighborhood. i'll be going there instead of driving down to steel yard anytime i need gourmet mexican fast food fix. 

 

Gourmet Mexican fast food?  Is there such a beast??

So I was just in a meeting with the new ownership group of the soon to be R.J. Boland's.  I have to say I was EXTREMELY impressed with what they have in mind.  These are REALLY sharp guys.  And I think this has potentially to be a great addition to the gateway neighborhood.  They are working on some really cool colaborative stuff with the Radison as well...

 

Ill trust McCleveland about this one and it will be nice to have something in that space again....  I have to say I cringed a little bit when I saw again "sports bar..." I guess if thats what will work there (and why wouldnt it being so close to Gateway)

 

From this weeks Scene:

 

Bites: R.J. Boland's Opening And more local food news

by Douglas Trattner

 

...."If all goes as planned, the new tenant will be up and running by late October. Described by its owner as a high-energy American saloon, R.J. Boland's will combine a sports-bar design with upscale pub grub. Partner and executive chef Doug Fulton, opening chef of McCormick & Schmick's, says guests can expect familiar but high-quality food dished up in a casual environment. Minor cosmetic changes will be made to the space, including dark-wood accents and the addition of numerous flat-screen TVs.

 

http://www.clevescene.com/cleveland/bites-rj-bolands-opening/Content?oid=1632718

 

It also references BlackFin, which they still say is (still) destined for Cleveland...

 

 

I like the spaces filled too... But how many times will something be a tweaked version of something else we already have so much of....

 

If these are supposed to be 'upscale' places, it would be nice if people dressed more appropriately when going out to dine... Enough of the sneakers, flip flops, inappropriate shirts on guys with extra large guts, 80's pleated dockers that taper at the ankles...and knee length shorts already. Maybe a good place would be a place to give people some subtle dress tips.

 

My point is...will this be another evolution into just another bar disguised as fine dining?

the phoenix coffee in lakewood (the only phoenix not owned by phoenix) is transitioning to a larger space, next door i believe, and a different sort of coffee shop that is more of a cafe.......a cafe that only serves vegan & vegetarian  fare.

^ ALL RIGHT!!!!      :clap:

^^They've been transitioning for quite a while.  From what I can tell not much has changed at the new space in 6 mos or so.  I'm assuming the financial crisis might have slowed them down. 

Gourmet Mexican fast food? Is there such a beast??

 

I have had gourmet Mexican food.  I have never had gourmet fast food, Mexican or otherwise.  I don't think there is such a thing.

The Indian restaurant next to the Euclid Tavern opened over the weekend.  Not sure of the name...

Is Euclid Tavern the one next to Mi Pueblo on Euclid Av? If  so I bet an Indian place could do well given all the international students. Let us know if you catch the name or get any info.

The snobs are out on the food board!  Depending on how literally you mean "fast" and "gourmet" you could certainly have them simultaneously.