I'm not sure we're accounting for the amount of dinner business that is permanently chased away by refusing to open for lunch.  Think about the impressions being created, as illustrated above.  Businesses run unprofitable product lines and services all the time... it's often the only way to maintain customers for their profit-centers.  Small cars are one major example. 

 

Therefore, if you can't afford to stay open during hours from which you don't directly profit, then you went into business with insufficient capital reserves.  Your lack of capital reserves changes nothing about clear and obvious expectancies in the market... like being open during normal hours, regardless of whether each hour is individually profitable.

^ I agree with you on HOB.  That is just a terrible decision that likely results in them losing customers for dinner as well.  It really is a travesty if a place cannot even open for their posted hours!

I agree a place MUST stay open during posted hours.  Having said that, I worked at the indian restaurant that used to be in the Residence Inn.  If the temperature dipped below forty degrees, we simply didn't get the volume to justify remaining open.  You can say that marginal costs of remaining open are low; but even if waiters and kitchen staff are paid modestly, there are chefs and managers who are paid considerably more.  Not to mention the fact that lunch prices are generally about 60% of dinner prices (AND people aren't boozing.)  I've never worked at a restaurant where the owner or manager wasn't constantly stressed about income and expenditures.  I also think there just might be restaurants in other cities that aren't open for lunch.

I also think there just might be restaurants in other cities that aren't open for lunch.

 

Nobody said different, but I've lived in other cities and the number of rarely-open restaurants here is on the high side.  When it happens en masse like this, and people have inexplicable experiences, they might sour on the idea of eating downtown period.  Besides, forget lunch... I haven't even mentioned all the places that are closed for dinner, which is a bigger problem development-wise and makes even less sense.

 

Come on down!  :wave:  But only at a certain time!  :wave:

 

:| they say 

^ Nothing drives customers away quicker than inconsistent hours. How many times have I been downtown on prime times...event times and have witnessed so many places closed. These places OTHER than WD and E.4th...as there IS a rest of downtown outside these districts!

Are you sure there is other parts of downtown outside of those districts ;)

 

anyway, this morning Chocolate Bar was installing a backlit sign.  Basically looks like their martini glass logo, just above their entrance facing Euclid.  Don't have a camera so no pics but if someone would be kind enough to snap one I;m sure it would be useful.

Despite the number of strides Cleveland (downtown specifically) has made over the past 5-15 years, maybe this is a reality check that we still have a long way to go in terms of critical mass, blah blah blah.  Honestly, we've seen a huge influx of dining options downtown in the past 5 years--probably more than waranted???  I'm not trying to be negative, just posing a question. 

 

If the vast majority of the daytime population is either working in the service industry or a "desk" job, sitting down for a formal lunch isn't always conducive to a productive day.  Heck, a yogurt makes me sleepy sometimes!  There have also been a 4-5 great coffee shops to open too which are more ideal for normal lunch hours-or 1/2 hours. 

 

Regardless of whether or not the owners have the capital or whatever to remain open for lunch, how can you possibly retain servers or other tipped staff to work for $15 when they can be doing something else and actually earning money?

 

I'm sure things will be better in a few months too!

^I think that's probably right.  The volume of Cleveland's downtown dining venues is probably driven by suburban dinner visitors, which means you're going to have a lot of places closed for lunch.  I don't know if there's any way around that unless the downtown worker population grows a lot or stops being afraid of the cold.

Maybe we wouldn't be so afraid to go out in the cold if we didn't think we were rolling the dice that the place we want to go will actually be open.

chicken, meet egg.

Can't get chicken or eggs.  It's noon!

 

Business doesn't work like that at all.  Markets don't just come running to you when it's most convenient on your end.  You have to be there for them, at the time of their choosing, not yours.  You do what you need to do to get the job done.  This is why we fail.  We choose not to get the job done, then we blame the market.

 

In other cities, and at other restaurants where I've worked, the slow shifts are rotated so that nobody gets stuck making zero tips.  BUT YOU DO NOT CLOSE.  You serve meals when meals are served.  You get the job done.  Once a customer is alienated they are probably gone forever.  If you don't wanna help them when they need it-- and you're the one asking for their repeat patronage-- why should they come back and wait an hour for dinner, at a time when everything favors you?  Long term survival is more important than immediate gain.  Long term survival in business is only possible by cultivating trust and reliance in your customer base.

I don't disagree with you... but it's not our business hemoraging money.  Every place I know of always opens up saying "we're going to be the place that's open all the time", and after getting their financial rear end handed to them for a prolonged period of time, they change course.  It stinks.  My biggest gripe is actually when places don't do enough to make people aware of things like "winter hours".  It's amazingly frustrating to show up to place to then find out it isn't open.

Folks, we've had enough discussion about the ins and outs of the restaurant/hospitality business and economic theories of this or that.

To get back on topic, I'm taking a party of 7 tomorrow to Chinato for my birthday lunch. I'll let you know how it goes.  The reservation process was less than smooth, but I'm optimistic anyway.

I would be interested to see if this going on in other cities right now. I don't remember this being a problem when I worked downtown 5 years ago.

 

But to RNR's original HOB complaint, that is BS. As long as you post your modified hours that is fine.

Did I accidentally log onto to Cleveland.com?  What the hell is going on around here?

 

In line with that tune though, I do have a complaint about L'albotros (sp?).  I had some folks in from out of town.  I called to make reservations for 8 on a Saturday and told them that we had a toddler in the crowd and asked if that would be OK.  I haven't dined there since it changed ownership/name and I wasn't sure.  They said it was fine and we made the reservation.

 

A couple hours later, I got a call saying they were cancelling the reservation.  About an hour after that, I got ANOTHER call to confirm that we were not going to show up.  Now, I don't know the reason (whether it was the kid or if they simply overbooked), but that was very bad business IMO.  Especiallly the "it's not just no... it's a HELL no" second call.  Kind of insulting, especially since (and I realize these are different owners) we had a party of 50 there a few years back for a rehearsal dinner.

Despite the number of strides Cleveland (downtown specifically) has made over the past 5-15 years, maybe this is a reality check that we still have a long way to go in terms of critical mass, blah blah blah. Honestly, we've seen a huge influx of dining options downtown in the past 5 years--probably more than waranted??? I'm not trying to be negative, just posing a question.

 

 

The addition of a downtown convention center will be a major boost to local restaurants, mostly downtown.

I also think the market is growing locally.  People hear that we actually have a restaurant scene, so newbies may want to try them all out.

 

Either way, worrying about having too many good places is a good problem to have.  My personal opinion is that we are not saturated yet.

To get back on topic, I'm taking a party of 7 tomorrow to Chinato for my birthday lunch. I'll let you know how it goes. The reservation process was less than smooth, but I'm optimistic anyway.

 

Please give a full report!  I think I'm more excited about this place than I've been for any opening in a while.

 

Any more reports from folks checking out Dante?

Did I accidentally log onto to Cleveland.com? What the hell is going on around here?

 

Yea really, R&R had another bad experience at a restaurant.....lets move on.

Did I accidentally log onto to Cleveland.com?  What the hell is going on around here?

 

Yea really, R&R had another bad experience at a restaurant.....lets move on.

 

I'll help.

Just heard from Steve Lorenz from Kamm's Corners the family that owns El Jalapeño on West 117th Street is opening Si Señor in Kamm's in March.

^Are these the same people who just opened Si Senor in the old Pizza Hut in Westlake on Detroit?  If so, the food is pretty good.

do not know

Chinato was AWESOME.

 

Very beatiful interior, server was very good/attentive (could have been slightly more speedy since it was a weekday lunch (hour and a half total), but service is always a little slower at a sit-down place so no big deal. But seriously, the server refilled drinks like dozens of times and even brought my one guest butter - instead of olive oil for the bread- without even a smidge of disdain, which isn't always the case).

 

I would say the theme of the food is "clean and simple" while being very flavorful and true to original style preparations.

 

I got the shaved mushroom salad for a starter; I for some reason thought it would be a variety of mushrooms, and that they would be cooked, but it literally was just your regular white button mushrooms, shaved, tossed with a little shaved parm and some fresh parsley with just a dash of lemon.  Several others got a salad starter with arugula, pumpkin seeds, I think little bits of turnip and goat cheese in balsamic and said it was good.  Bread was crusty and fresh. 

 

My boss got into a discussion with the server about their carbonara.  He wanted some kind of "cream sauce" pasta with peas (not sure who does carbonara this way) and was disappointed that they had neither peas nor cream in their prep so he didn't order it (traditionally, it does NOT have cream).  I almost tried it, but I fear nothing can compare with the carbonara I had at a Mario Batali place a couple of years ago so I chose the col buca pasta with pork sholder and tomatoes.  It also had fresh basil and cracked pepper and was served with a little shaved parm and a small scoop of fresh ricotta (boy was it worth breaking my no-dairy diet for this; I just hope little RNR doesn't get too sick from my one cheat meal).  It was FANTASTIC, I could have eaten 3x what was served and it was a generous portion.  I almost got the porchetta, which sounded like a pork lovers dream - described as flattened pork belly topped with confit pork and rolled up, served on a bed of black kale.  Maybe another time. Three others at my table got the papardelle pasta with creamed cauliflower (roasted first), pecorino cheese and pepperoncini and all said it was really good.  One person got the calves' liver, which is served with figs, and he said it was very good, and one other person got the brick flattened chicken breast w/panzenella salad and preserved lemon.  Nobody had any food left on their plate and everyone said how good their entrees were.  The table split a tiramisu and hazelnut-chocolate mousse cake for dessert and both were very good.

 

This is a keeper!

Wow, high praise!  I can't wait to check this place out.  Sound like your boss might be more comfortable at an Olive Garden- I swear every dish they show on their TV commercial is swimming in cream or cheese sauce.  Everything.  Always make me queasy when those adds come on.    Bring on the Chinato!

I've seen carbonara done that way, as an alfredo variant, and I'm glad Chinato doesn't do that.

^The pasta carbonara I am familar with is in a cream sauce with peas.  The usual difference is some places use egg and others do not.  I googled the recipe and most had cream.

Real, traditional Italian carbonara does not have cream.  Just because it's often prepared that way here (and in people's home recipes) doesn't mean it's a traditional Italian dish.  There are whole threads devoted to this debate on other food boards, but most people agree that it doesn't belong in the actual dish if prepared traditionally.

 

Not that wikipedia is a great source, but here's an overview:

Pasta alla carbonara (usually spaghetti, but also fettuccine, rigatoni or bucatini) is an Italian pasta dish based on eggs, pecorino romano, guanciale, and black pepper. The dish was created in the middle of the 20th century.[1]

 

The recipes vary, though all agree that cheese (Parmesan, pecorino, or a combination), egg yolks (or whole eggs), cured fatty pork, and black pepper are basic. The pork is fried in fat (olive oil or lard); a mixture of eggs, cheese, and butter or olive oil is combined with the hot pasta, cooking the eggs; the pork is then added to the pasta.[1][2][3] Guanciale is the most traditional meat, but pancetta is also used.[4][5] In the US, it is often made with American bacon[citation needed].

 

Cream is not common in Italian recipes, but is used in the United States[6][7], France, Spain, the United Kingdom[8], Australia[9] and Russia (especially in Moscow)[citation needed]. Other Anglo/Franco variations on carbonara may include peas, broccoli or other vegetables added for colour.[7] Yet another American version includes mushrooms. Many of these preparations have more sauce than the Italian versions.[10]

 

In all versions of the recipe, the eggs are added to the sauce raw, and cook (coagulate) with the heat of the pasta itself.

 

 

Like I said, the carbonara I am familar with has cream, but the Italian version cited above sounds much more delicious.

Also remember Bruell has never really cooked Italian, so everything is based on a trip to Italy that he took for menu ideas, so supposedely everything is how you would find it there.  Which is apparently much lighter and simpler than many of us may be used to.  I dont remember the region he traveled to though.   

Attention Man vs Food fans!  The show will be at Steve's Gyros at the West Side Market on February 24th (or so I was told by the lady behind the counter).

And I believe Melt is on DD&D tonight.

And I believe Melt is on DD&D tonight.

 

Thats right: Tonight at 10 p.m. Food Network star Guy Fieri's "Diners, Drive-Ins and Dives" debuts a segment on Melt Bar and Grilled in Lakewood.

Attention Man vs Food fans!  The show will be at Steve's Gyros at the West Side Market on February 24th (or so I was told by the lady behind the counter).

 

Is there some sort of food challenge Steve's?

Come to think of it. is there anything like that anywhere in NEO?

PD just did an expose, outside of Quaker steak I never heard of any of these challenges before this article

http://www.cleveland.com/pdq/index.ssf/2010/01/gluttony_pays_off_thanks_to.html

 

 

^ask and you shall receive - thanks!

Attention Man vs Food fans!  The show will be at Steve's Gyros at the West Side Market on February 24th (or so I was told by the lady behind the counter).

 

 

Is there some sort of food challenge Steve's?

Come to think of it. is there anything like that anywhere in NEO?

eating that gyro would be a challenge. It is huge. I have a  really big appetite, and when I worked across the street I would get one of things and it would last me for 1-3 days. It is kind of sad since I am eating cleaner now, I probably could not face one of those again.

 

 

And I believe Melt is on DD&D tonight.

 

Thats right: Tonight at 10 p.m. Food Network star Guy Fieri's "Diners, Drive-Ins and Dives" debuts a segment on Melt Bar and Grilled in Lakewood.

 

Is this online anywhere?

And I believe Melt is on DD&D tonight.

 

Thats right: Tonight at 10 p.m. Food Network star Guy Fieri's "Diners, Drive-Ins and Dives" debuts a segment on Melt Bar and Grilled in Lakewood.

 

Is this online anywhere?

 

I havent found it.  It was a great episode, and made Cleveland seem very funky, cool with Matt Fish at Melt who came across as a psycho master at what he does.  Guy was like "you people from Cleveland are crazy nuts" (something like that (not his exact words)), but certainly impressed by our creative talent.     

^It was cool that Guy even repeated the names of the chefs from previous places he's visited in Cleveland (Eric at Momocho, Heather at Lucky's, etc).  Thats not something I've ever seen him do before.  It really drove home the point that Cleveland has a strong food scene.  Hopefully that resonated with lots of viewers.

Ate on Chinato Sat., loved the food (especially the beef tongue app) but waited an hour and a half to sit down.  8:30 reservation and sat down just passed 10... and I still find myself telling people they have to try it

I think I love chinato's menu more than any in Cleveland right now. Once things simmer down, I hope to try it.

Real, traditional Italian carbonara does not have cream.  Just because it's often prepared that way here (and in people's home recipes) doesn't mean it's a traditional Italian dish.  There are whole threads devoted to this debate on other food boards, but most people agree that it doesn't belong in the actual dish if prepared traditionally.

 

 

sure real, traditional italian does not have cream in that dish, but real, traditional italian-american often does!

 

so its valid...unless you dont like meatballs served on top of spaghetti - ha!

 

 

Finally! ...

 

Bites: Bac Asian American Bistro Opening

And more local food news

by Douglas Trattner

 

"The last time we checked in with Bac Nguyen was late July. He was shooting for an October opening of Bac Asian American Bistro..."

 

read more at: http://www.clevescene.com/cleveland/bites/Content?category=1520384

 

 

And I believe Melt is on DD&D tonight.

 

Thats right: Tonight at 10 p.m. Food Network star Guy Fieri's "Diners, Drive-Ins and Dives" debuts a segment on Melt Bar and Grilled in Lakewood.

 

Is this online anywhere?

 

I havent found it. It was a great episode, and made Cleveland seem very funky, cool with Matt Fish at Melt who came across as a psycho master at what he does. Guy was like "you people from Cleveland are crazy nuts" (something like that (not his exact words)), but certainly impressed by our creative talent.

 

My girlfriend said that she heard that Matt Fish of Melt was getting all kinds of calls about opening Melt franchises throughout the country after the episode aired.  Wow!

I hope if they open more locations they do so with a bigger kitchen capable of handling crowds.

^ Speaking of which, why is taking so long to open the Cleveland Heights location?  Every time i drive by taylor and ceder it doesnt seem like much progress is taking place.

It's hard to open a restaurant, there are lots of little setbacks that can put you behind schedule; delivery of things, stuff being promised to be finished inside that's not finished, getting the liquor license, finding, hiring and training of staff, all kinds of stuff.  That being said, I'm starting to think I'll probably never set foot in Melt again as it's just too busy for my taste.  I will not wait 2 hours to eat anywhere in Cleveland.

It's hard to open a restaurant, there are lots of little setbacks that can put you behind schedule; delivery of things, stuff being promised to be finished inside that's not finished, getting the liquor license, finding, hiring and training of staff, all kinds of stuff. That being said, I'm starting to think I'll probably never set foot in Melt again as it's just too busy for my taste. I will not wait 2 hours to eat anywhere in Cleveland.

 

I've been there twice and both times I've gotten the food to go.

I lived right by Melt and could never get in.  Almost forgot it was there.  I keep thinking they'll suffer for being so backed up all the time, but I keep being wrong about that.  Their legend only grows.  I can understand their wanting to expand slowly, to prevent their brand from being diluted by poor approximations.  That brand is red hot right now.

I know that CH was seeking to declare the old establishment where Melt is a public nuisance.  Not sure how that played out and whether there are any issues with that litigation that might be holding the project up.