i thought some of you might be interested (or astounded? astonished? mortified?) in this real estate thingy. i'm numb to it myself. our friends just sold their chelsea apt and bought a raw loft in tribeca for a cool mil. we went to see it with them saturday afternoon. its on desbrosses street just below canal street and by the holland tunnel.

 

 

they said it was a former caviar warehouse. the previous owner was the original tenant and lived there 25yrs. they are going to gut the whole thing and redo it. they only have the two windows but have the top floor with skylights so there is lots of light. there is roof access up a ladder, but we didnt have time to go up.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dosent look like there is much needed to gut. Maybe just gut the 2nd floor move it to the back of the apartment allowing full use of the windows. How many sq/ft was the apartment?

LOL no thanks. I'd rather buy a mansion or large commericial building in Ohio for that price.

$1M !!  ....  fuhgeddaboudit.  Thx for the pix tho MRNYC. That is an amazing market.

Its sweet..but I would take a new loft in the McAlpin or Parker Flats ;)

yes, it never seems to end. Next time how 'bout a photo essay featuring some of those 300 sq.ft. studios in fifth floor walk-ups selling for 400-grand! It's absolutely ridiculous. And now that the real estate developers have pretty much succeeded in destroying the quirkiness and character of every neighborhood in Manhattan (prices even in Harlem are now unaffordable to all except the most well-heeled of yuppies), they've set their sights on once completely marginal, burned-out neighborhoods like Bushwick in Brooklyn, and the South Bronx (the SOUTH BRONX!!--a recent radio call-in show featured legendary queen of NY real estate Barbara Corcoran discussing the investment/development prospects in that one time no-man's-land). I would like to attribute these inflated prices to the demand created by the never-ending stream of over-paid Wall St. yuppies, trustafarians and rich Eurotrash into New York, but it can't be all that simple, or can it?

NYC is a commodity like diamonds. It has that value because we give it that value. I'm sure NYC is great but I don't get how anyone would be willing to spend that kind of money. You make more money on average, in New York but it still seems like a higher percentage of your earnings will go to cost of living.

This is simply:  REDICULOUS!

How are the real estate taxes in NYC?

I'm assuming that other than the kitchen and bathroom, there's not much else to the place?

 

As interesting as that is (I can definitely appreciate the appeal), when you consider that you could have a place like this for less than half of that? It's in walking distance to everything in Ohio City so it's not like we're talking some remote area, either: http://pure.progressiveurban.com/propview.php?view=1155

 

^Jay is a great street.  I would love to have been able to get a home there.

Where's the bathroom and kitchen? In a room off to the right?  I pay 463 a month for a 2 room apt in Clifton (Cincinnati) and it's probably about the same size, just not a loft. Still, with me being single, I'd push an old man down a flight of steps to live in a loft like that in Tribeca.

NYC's housing market is a trip.  My neighbor's brownstone is worth about 1.3 million dollars.  But paid $79k for it. she turned the basement into a rental unit. 

 

Two brownstones around the corner are listed in the 850k-1.2M range. I can't wait for my brownstone to be worth that much!  There are even some condo's (http://lenoxgrand.com/unit.floorplans.htm), which are NOTHING special, no upgrades, nada...zilch and every damn UNIT cost more than my ENTIRE damn brownstone!

:wtf:

 

The market here in DC is crazy too, although not nearly as expensive.  Starter slums go in excess of $300,000 for a 1000 sf rowhouse in a not-so-great location (or you can try to get a studio apartment for that price).  How are people currently in their 20s and 30s ever expected to be able to buy into real estate with those kinds of prices?  And when you consider that property taxes have been increasing at 25% a year, the only people who can afford it are the people already in the game and the trustafarians.

 

I've developed a theory that really, the high prices all come down to one thing:  greed on the part of the baby boomers. 

How are the real estate taxes in NYC?

I'm not a homeowner but I think they're actually pretty low- a concession to keep the outer-borough middle class from leaving the city.  For instance, according to the listing, this million dollar plus townhouse (http://www.corcoran.com/property/listing.aspx?Region=NYC&ListingID=820895) has taxes of only $3,162 per year.

i'll try to answer a few questions.

 

i dk the sq ft yet, i'll find out. the bathroom/shower, laundry/hot water heater and kitchen are directly behind that. there is another smaller loft area opposite or right behind that one as well, over the kitchen, etc -- which is where i took the shots from. the whole thing is getting gutted, but yes there is not much to gut. still, just redoing it will cost'em another half mil before its all done. for one thing they are going to build a stairwell to the roof inside the apt --- even tho there is a ladder up there out in their hallway (its all their rooftop).

 

hmm, what else? a cool thing is that you press buttons and the skylights open up -- which is left over from when this place was a warehouse. another cool thing is the freight elevator goes up to individual floor apts only via a key. i'll be back again soon and try to take some better pics next time, this time we were in a rush. i want to see the roof views too!

 

as far as nyc property tax here is a quick reference:

 

http://www.henrygeorgeschool.org/taxquestions.htm

 

ps hey mts -- fyi they bought a 1bdrm apt in chelsea for $500k-ish like two years ago and just sold it for $7-800k to get this one.

 

hyper active real estate? it's all crazyness.

 

 

The market here in DC is crazy too, although not nearly as expensive.  Starter slums go in excess of $300,000 for a 1000 sf rowhouse in a not-so-great location (or you can try to get a studio apartment for that price).  How are people currently in their 20s and 30s ever expected to be able to buy into real estate with those kinds of prices?  And when you consider that property taxes have been increasing at 25% a year, the only people who can afford it are the people already in the game and the trustafarians.

 

I've developed a theory that really, the high prices all come down to one thing:  greed on the part of the baby boomers. 

What does being a baby boomer have to do with it? 

 

ps hey mts -- fyi they bought a 1bdrm apt in chelsea for $500k-ish like two years ago and just sold it for $7-800k to get this one.

 

hyper active real estate? it's all crazyness.

 

I'd like to "sit" on this property a lil longer.  I look at the value of condos/brownstones in the area and I'm pretty sure I can get a good price for it, but why would I sell?!  LOL  I put a lot into restoring it, but updating and modernizing my crib.  I'm thinking of turning the basement into an apartment since I'm not here all the time, this way I can justify buying an apartment in downtown cleveland.  Also, the batchelor pad on SS is paid off and is worth about 9 times more than what I paid for it!

 

^there you go! what the hey you're not going anywhere, you're bi-coastal...east coast and north coast - heh!

^there you go! what the hey you're not going anywhere, you're bi-coastal...east coast and north coast - heh!

 

Actually, after this week, I feel like im bi-polar!

 

I've developed a theory that really, the high prices all come down to one thing:  greed on the part of the baby boomers. 

 

History is not going treat the baby boomers well, They are going to look like bastard when people see what a mess they left their children and gradchildren.

Can someone explain the whole babyboomer thing to me?  :wtf:

I'll have to find the link to an article i read about it.

but basically its the debt, they are leaving, and as they age their political leanings are going to shift more and more towards the extream right wing,(due to their impending death??) they will pass laws for higher taxes in order to pay for their retirement and or the national debts that they helped create. Its very big picture and you have to step back from it to kindoff see what might or might not happen, but basically the 2 generations behind the baby boomers are getting a big SH!t stick and It will be the 3rd generation people born after 82? that will start to fix some of the issues that their parents helped created.

 

I know i tend to write in run on sentences

but basically the 2 generations behind the baby boomers are getting a big SH!t stick and It will be the 3rd generation people born after 82? that will start to fix some of the issues that their parents helped created.

 

Who knows? Maybe that Sh!t stick will someday tapered off into a doody twig...er, fiscially speaking. :-)

I'm only 19 and I've noticed a lot of people I know that are undergrad and grad students are already over 100,000 dollars in debt. Since I go to school, I can only work part time so I work at Old Navy and most of the students I work with drive new cars WHILE they are over 100k dollars in debt. Some of it is student loans, and some of it is credit card debt, and some is from buying BRAND NEW cars and other luxuries that they must have NOW. They complain about not getting enough hours certain weeks but then I look at their whole lifestyle. My generation doesn't like being told "no" for anything. The Xavier students are the worst. They're used to being spoiled by their parents and they need to have everything that their peers have, and more or else they feel inferior and fall into depression. It's ridiculous.  You don't need a new car when you live near campus and only drive to work.  These kids have never taken a bus or other form of public transportation in their life.  I don't think it's just the babyboomer generation that's going to hurt our economy. My generation seems to be living a very inefficient lifestyle.  They don't mind being so far in debt in college because they assume they will be making over 100 grand a year with a masters degree and most likely that isn't true. There's this girl I work with (Old Navy pays new employees 7.50 an hour by the way) and she works at Old Navy part time, and and is a hair stylist. She bought a small 3bdroom house in Hyde Park for 390k because she thought she'd make a lot of money as a hairstylist and would be able to pay for it. She quit her job, I guess because she didn't like it or some other stupid reason and now she just works at old navy. She was complaining to me about how she can't afford to live there. I said "Why don't you rent out a few bedrooms?" shes like "I don't want strangers living in my house"... I didn't ask, but my guess is that her parents financed the house for her or something like that. She doesn't have a boyfriend living there to help pay for it either. I live in a 2 room apt and pay 430 a month and I'm perfectly happy.

^ That's part of what's likely driving the real estate boom in places like New York. It's a status thing, and no one has found the price ceiling yet, not as long as debt ceiling hasn't been reached yet either. The lines of credit continue to flow.

 

Someday, when the shit hits the fan, there are going to be so many bankrupt people it's ridiculous. No wonder the government tightened the bankruptcy laws as of Jan. 1 -- likely at the behest of banks who continue to float lines of credit but shudder with nervousness at the balooning debt. I can only imagine what some real estate markets are going to look like when TSHTF -- both financially and physically. I would imagine that cities which "enjoyed" less of this housing bubble (including the Big 3 in Ohio) are going to look pretty appealing when that bubble bursts.

 

And it will burst, sooner or later. Nothing that skyrockets stays up forever. And when it falls, it will take many down with it.

^  I wholeheartedly agree with KJP and David.  I know no less than three people, all around 25 years old, who bought condos in DC within the past 4 months.  Mind you, studios here start at $200,000.  Never mind a 1 BR. 

 

It reeks badly of the stock bubble.  Most people believed there was no way the bottom could fall out, and they ended up losing their ass by buying on the high end and having nowhere to go but down.

I understand that buying a condo is better than renting because you'll get your money back but I don't understand why people look at buying a house as an "investment". You may sell your house at a higher price when you move but what about inflation? What about all that interest you paid? What about all of the updates you made to the house while living there?

Can someone explain the whole babyboomer thing to me?  :wtf:

people had lots of sex after WW2

^LMAO!

 

Here is what wiki has to say, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-WW2_baby_boom

 

Its the reason so many nursing homes and senior "landominiums" are being cracked up everywhere, I don't know what is going to happen to all that when they all die in 30 years.

 

Can someone explain the whole babyboomer thing to me?  :wtf:

people had lots of sex after WW2

Well you can't get any more blunt than that.

 

I don't see why people need a war to have a lot of sex.

well its not that they needed a war to have lots of sex, its that during the war people were depressed so they had less sex, (no one wants to have children if they are going to die in war) then when the war is over and all the young men come home, well you get the picture. hence the Baby boom.

we went back to this loft apt last night for the house warming party. its not renovated, but they are all moved in. sorry its so dark --- i did not want to use the flash.

 

 

 

the front loft, kitchen below, bathroom/laundry is behind it all

 

 

 

blurry looking down from the front bedroom loft, but so you can see the bathroom/laundry door

 

up to the roof

 

looking west down the street at jersey

 

looking east

 

straight down below

 

*** i'll have to go back w/ the camera in the daytime  ***

Interesting thread. I have also seen housing in New York first hand, and I was appalled at the cost of living there too. It was last year I went to NYC with several of my friends. We stayed with one of my friend's sister and her boyfriend in Hoboken. Both of the living spaces were so tiny and had no upgrades. I'm not sure what those living spaces cost, but probably way overpriced- and thats just Jersey. Both of them were from the midwest and talked about how wonderful life was in NYC and how they wouldn't think of moving back to Ohio. My friends also agreed and oooo and aww'd over all of these overpriced living spaces, neighborhoods, and overpriced restaurants that frankly exist in Cleveland (albeit on a smaller scale, but just as good quality as NYC and half the cost). We went to a party at an apartment in a building at the intersection of Walstreet and Broadway. It was a tiny four bedroom apartment with absolutely no upgrades, and the living space consisted of a tiny kitchen area and a tiny space for a sofa and television. The rent was $4,500 a month, and my friends told me this was an unbelievable deal in NYC. 

 

Here is what For Sale housing at $1 million gets you in downtown Cleveland:

Plus, their tax-abated for the first 15 years of occupancy.

 

Anyway, thats not even showing the entire space, and the Pinnacle Building includes a swimming pool, fitness ceter, concierege, and parking. It is around the corner from Constantino's and many fine restaurants. It is within walking distance to offices, sports venues, etc.

 

I have another interesting experience worth sharing on this thread. I am aquainted with a New Yorker who recently choose to retire in Cleveland. The only connection he had with Cleveland was through business trips when he was working. I believe he was attracted to Cleveland because of the cost of living, the orchestra, the museums, and the Cleveland Clinic. He bought a beautiful condo with lakefront views in Bratenahl and belongs to the Shoreby Club. When his New York friends come and visit him in beautiful Bratenahl they think his condo must have cost millions, and they are shocked and thoroughly impressed when he tells them it only cost $400,000. At least some New Yorkers are getting the message what a wonderful place Cleveland is. 

Vulpster that loft in downtown Cleveland is AMAAAZZZIIIINNGGG. When I'm rich I'm buying that.

vulpster i was hoping someone would make a post like that on this thread, that was spot on.

Thanks mrnyc. I believe New York is a great city, and a truly unique city based on the sheer scale and some of the historical-economic-cultural aspects of it of course. However after several visits to NYC, and especially the last one, I couldn't help but feel it is so overrated. The cost of things there are just ridiculous. I don't believe that the inflated incomes necessarily makes up for the inflated costs there. The big draw is status and quality of urban life. Well status is illusory- as KJP pointed out earlier - and the quality of urban life can be attained to a competitive degree in other more reasonably priced cities. Frankly I went to no restaurant or bar that I wouldn't be able to find in Cleveland. Of course there is more retail and entertainment, but what retail and entertainment exists in New York that you can't find in other places in the world, you probably can't afford anyway. New York has fabulous urban districts with blocks and blocks of like stores/shops/residences, but in Cleveland (like many other cities) you have comparable urban 'strips'. I'll take the smaller scale if it means half the price.

 

I'll continue visiting NYC and enjoy my visits, but I will always be very critical of someone (especially from Ohio) believing New York is the only place to be.

 

I believe the Plaza Hotel was originally built for Clevelanders; not New Yorkers.

 

And how dare they claim the Rockefellers, Gunds, Steinbrenners, Ratners, Lewis and other Clevelanders who own their city as true New Yorkers?

^you said it. i'd just add its much, much easier to live here in ny than to visit.

 

ps -- don't forget to add the dolans to that list.

Thanks mrnyc. I believe New York is a great city, and a truly unique city based on the sheer scale and some of the historical-economic-cultural aspects of it of course. However after several visits to NYC, and especially the last one, I couldn't help but feel it is so overrated. The cost of things there are just ridiculous. I don't believe that the inflated incomes necessarily makes up for the inflated costs there. The big draw is status and quality of urban life. Well status is illusory- as KJP pointed out earlier - and the quality of urban life can be attained to a competitive degree in other more reasonably priced cities. Frankly I went to no restaurant or bar that I wouldn't be able to find in Cleveland. Of course there is more retail and entertainment, but what retail and entertainment exists in New York that you can't find in other places in the world, you probably can't afford anyway. New York has fabulous urban districts with blocks and blocks of like stores/shops/residences, but in Cleveland (like many other cities) you have comparable urban 'strips'. I'll take the smaller scale if it means half the price.

 

I'll continue visiting NYC and enjoy my visits, but I will always be very critical of someone (especially from Ohio) believing New York is the only place to be.

 

I believe the Plaza Hotel was originally built for Clevelanders; not New Yorkers.

 

And how dare they claim the Rockefellers, Gunds, Steinbrenners, Ratners, Lewis and other Clevelanders who own their city as true New Yorkers?

I agree whole heartedly. IN the last 2  months I have been to NYC and San Fransisco. I did a lot of research on where to eat (for example searches Bon Appetite and Gourmet Magazine) and ate at some nice places, as well as thrifty local ethnic haunts...however recent meals at Lolita and Paralaxx right here in Cleveland were even better (not to mention Pho Hoa, now Superior Pho). 4 pretty well traveled Cleverlanders sat in NYC and all agreed over 6.00 beers (gasp) that we had it pretty darn good. I am not a shopper, in fact I almost dislike shopping, but I admit NYC is the best in this area! But I can be satisfied with once a year or so trip (cant even afford that though). I will still argue that NYC is one of the best cities in the world to visit, but the high housing cost knocks it out of contention in my opinion. Don't even get me started on San Fransisco...Either way, I am a big foodie (not necessarily gourmet, just well prepared, and hopefully ethnic) and Cleveland is amazing! And yes, our bars are the terrific (although my new favorite bar in the world is the Toronado in San Fran, it is a must see). While Cleveland does not have everything, it affords the opportunity to live affordably and be able to travel! I would not be able to see as much of the world if it were not for the great cost of living here.

Are you sure that loft in Cleveland is only 1Million? I know Cleveland's cost of living is low but that place looks amazing.

Are you sure that loft in Cleveland is only 1Million? I know Cleveland's cost of living is low but that place looks amazing.

 

Here is the pricing for the pinnacle.  The penthouses are in the million dollar range

 

http://pinnacle701.com/pricing.htm

Unbelievable.

for comparison sake i thought i would add this loft my professional photographer friend owns in columbus. it's a former ball bearing factory on 3rd and summit in italian village. he owns the front and there are two more behind him in the building. there were two loft areas, but he fixed it up as well. he bought it for $200k in 2000 and says he could sell it for $350k today easily. i dk how many sq ft it is, i'd guess only a bit smaller than the manhattan loft. the pics are from 7/25/06.

 

 

yeah, unlike us building geeks he prefers shooting people, esp the hot nudes  :-o

 

note the pirate flags  :laugh:

 

the harley & the assistant in the garage

 

bonus: et tu brute? polaris "fashion" mall  :laugh:

 

 

Really cool layout. I love that modern style stuff.

 

 

mrnyc, I took two of your pics into Photoshop:

 

 

thx thats a lot brighter & you can see more!

 

i can hold the digital lens open for up to 2secs tops on my camera and that's not long enough for really dark settings.

 

i need to grow up & get a better camera. my photographer friend in columbus up there was pimping me his all new leica digital point&shoot, thats going to be the new one i think. prob is that its a leica --- so its $750+.

 

Everyone should check out Strapped (http://www.demos.org/pub663.cfm), a great book about the dire financial situation facing 20- and 30-somethings today. Author Tamara Draut did a forum at Levin College earlier this year. Despite being a researcher and author for a prominent and highly visible think tank, she shared that as a NYC resident, she did not think she'd EVER be in a financial position to buy a home. When you compare that to a market like Cleveland, where excellent housing stock in trendy neighborhoods can be had around the $100K mark, I think that is an incredible selling point for the young professional crowd.

Somewhat of topic, but I was just at a woman's home on the upper east side, which might be a story for This old House.  She bought her apartment 16/17 years ago for around 400k, and over the years has spend about 175k restoring it, today its worth 1.5 million.

 

Its a 1.5 bedroom (the second bedroom can only fit a queen bed - NOTHING ELSE - so its listed as a "half") and a 1.5 bathroom, living room, foyer, small dining room and Kitchen.  She tried to keep the architecture integrity of the apartment and restored to is original form.  She does have a killer southern view (which gets top dollar in NYC).

 

It's a lovely apartment....but her apartment could fit, INSIDE my apartment on Shaker Square, and I think the courts here in Shaker Blvd. are so much better.  Manhattan is just so damn expensive.  This woman, like my neighbor accross the street in Harlem, said if she was to sell, she couldn't afford to buy an apartment anywhere else in Manhattan.

Couple pics of my friend from Cleveland Hts. new crib.  It's in Tribeca.  I think the apartment is 2200 sq. ft.  Personally, I think he paid way to much and could have bought an apartment or brownstone for less, with more character.  But to each his own.

 

The place is still a work in progress and the floor have been installed and are beautiful, and the original tin ceil restored and should be painted a metalic white, right now they have just gotten a metalic primer followed by a regular primer. and the walls will be light cream (with a plaster and wash affect).

 

 

from the entry looking into the "grand salon"

 

This is the are looking toward the bedrooms.