This building has a 120' deep floor plates. No doubt, you could ring the perimeter of this building with 30' deep residential units... but there is going to be a lot of windowless interior. Retrofitting a building like this for residential use will be challenging.

3 hours ago, Chas Wiederhold said:

This building has a 120' deep floor plates. No doubt, you could ring the perimeter of this building with 30' deep residential units... but there is going to be a lot of windowless interior. Retrofitting a building like this for residential use will be challenging.

The elevator shafts, stairwells, mechanical rooms and restrooms are in the center of the building. Does that help simplify things?

2 hours ago, Dev said:

The elevator shafts, stairwells, mechanical rooms and restrooms are in the center of the building. Does that help simplify things?

That would simplify. Even still, there will be a substantial amount of poorly daylit space without some special solutions, i.e. a significant amount of amenity space surrounding the core of the building. 

5 hours ago, Chas Wiederhold said:

This building has a 120' deep floor plates. No doubt, you could ring the perimeter of this building with 30' deep residential units... but there is going to be a lot of windowless interior. Retrofitting a building like this for residential use will be challenging.

 

Do you know of any residential projects that have solved this problem in a creative way? With more people working from home now it might be cool to put co-working space that residents could use or even private offices or conference rooms that they could reserve. Of course your typical amenities like gyms and theater rooms could go there as well. At one point, McMillan Park Campus Park CP Cincy offered a recording studio as a resident amenity but it appears they don't anymore.

On 11/5/2021 at 3:34 PM, taestell said:

 

Do you know of any residential projects that have solved this problem in a creative way? With more people working from home now it might be cool to put co-working space that residents could use or even private offices or conference rooms that they could reserve. Of course your typical amenities like gyms and theater rooms could go there as well. At one point, McMillan Park Campus Park CP Cincy offered a recording studio as a resident amenity but it appears they don't anymore.

A lot of warehouse conversions that have a similar issue solve it by creating "one bedrooms" that are legally studios with a space deep within, away from windows, where you could put a bed. A lot of cities will call you out on this attempt at a workaround though and not approve.

 

It's a major issue with office conversions of buildings built from the 1960s onward. Before that, floor plates were shallower and fairly similar to that of residential. But now we're at a point where the Class B and C offices from the 60s, 70s, and 80s have 100' - 200' deep floor plates and they rarely work.

 

The company I work for has had many of these come through our design team and even with creative solutions, they just don't pencil from an underwriting standpoint. You end up with so much square footage that can't be used for valuable spaces like bedrooms that you end up creating an over-amenitized, expensive group of units that just don't work for the market they're in.

 

We have piloted several remote work hubs in a handful of places around the country and our main solution has been twofold. Make the units slightly larger/deeper than ideal, and use that square footage to create an alcove or small office space internally. Then use the central square footage to create things like soundproof call booths, conference rooms, larger open coworking spaces, etc. But the issue when it's a tower is that you have so many floors to work a solution for, and neither of these solutions works on the scale of the Macy's tower.

 

I know NYC is officially looking into amending their code specifically for office conversions to allow a special circumstance to make them feasible. It'll be interesting to see what they deem as acceptable is. It's definitely a big issue. 120' depth is about 40' - 45' deepr than the maximum you'd want for a double loaded corridor setup. That's a lot of area to somehow account for.

Edited November 8, 20213 yr by jmicha

$73 million conversion of former Macy’s headquarters gets first approval

 

A New York City commercial real estate developer’s plans for a massive redevelopment of Macy’s Inc.'s former headquarters building in downtown Cincinnati landed its first approval on Nov. 5.

 

Cincinnati Planning Commission unanimously approved the conveyance of the property located at 7 W. Seventh St. in downtown Cincinnati and re-conveyance of the property to Victrix Investments LLC. This is one of many steps in the development process. When a property is to be conveyed to the city and then the city reconveys it to another entity that would need to be voted on by Cincinnati City Council.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2021/11/08/macys-headquarters-conveyance-planning.html

 

As a side note, I wonder if there will be a rush to get projects approved under the Cranley administration before the Pureval administration takes over. This Macy's redevelopment seems to be moving pretty quickly and I wouldn't be surprised if that is a motivating factor.

2 hours ago, taestell said:

As a side note, I wonder if there will be a rush to get projects approved under the Cranley administration before the Pureval administration takes over. This Macy's redevelopment seems to be moving pretty quickly and I wouldn't be surprised if that is a motivating factor.

Wonder if he’ll try to get the convention center hotel in place before he leaves as well so he can claim ownership on that. 

On 11/5/2021 at 3:34 PM, taestell said:

 

Do you know of any residential projects that have solved this problem in a creative way? With more people working from home now it might be cool to put co-working space that residents could use or even private offices or conference rooms that they could reserve. Of course your typical amenities like gyms and theater rooms could go there as well. At one point, McMillan Park Campus Park CP Cincy offered a recording studio as a resident amenity but it appears they don't anymore.

Everything @jmichasaid.

 

I VERY  quickly did a sketch of what type of leftover commons PER FLOOR we are talking... 5,000 SF per floor. Of course there are some stairs in addition to the 20x40' core I placed in the center of the building, but this begins to show what challenge they are up against.

Not sure how much a difference this makes for the “left over” space per floor. 
 

but there are 8 elevator shafts and 2 stairwells. 

 

Did some googling. Found a floor plan. I think the floor plan is a little better for residential than it seems. Although that interior core is going to be tough to utilize.

 

Definitely looks like the angled form is helpful here for conversion. You never truly have full depth double loaded corridors. I'm curious to see what they come up with.

41 minutes ago, RealAdamP said:

 

Did some googling. Found a floor plan. I think the floor plan is a little better for residential than it seems. Although that interior core is going to be tough to utilize.

 

 

Honestly, if the developer doesnt do w/d hookups in the units, you can have laundry rooms on each floor. Also you can have tenant storage units on each floor that tenants can rent with there units. Plus mechanical/janitorial areas. I have worked on this building for a couple years now. We did all the macys corporate remodel work just three years ago prior to them moving out lol 

15 hours ago, savadams13 said:

 

Honestly, if the developer doesnt do w/d hookups in the units, you can have laundry rooms on each floor. Also you can have tenant storage units on each floor that tenants can rent with there units. Plus mechanical/janitorial areas. I have worked on this building for a couple years now. We did all the macys corporate remodel work just three years ago prior to them moving out lol 

Indoor pet relief areas are big amenities as well. Take some of the restroom areas that already have extra ventilation and drainage, put down some fake grass, and you don't need to take your dog down the elevator each morning.

its about the first thing prospective tenants in OTR ask: W/D in the unit?

If you are going to turn it into a Class A apartment building, it is pretty much expected to have W/D hookups today. You can have a very nice building without hookups and offer a central laundry, but you really need to have the hookups. It really does not add too much costs considering they need to run plumbing through the building to each unit. 

First affordable housing development in at least a decade planned for downtown Cincinnati

 

Developers are planning a more than $14 million affordable housing project in downtown Cincinnati.

 

Barrister Apartments LLC, a joint venture between Over-the-Rhine Community Housing and Urban Sites, plans to renovate the office buildings at 214-216 E. Ninth St. into 44 low-to-very-low-income apartments and about 2,000 square feet of commercial space. The total project cost would be $14.5 million.

 

Tim Westrich, vice president of affordable housing at Over-the-Rhine-based Urban Sites, said after starting an affordable division about a year ago, the company has been looking for a big project with a partner like Over-the-Rhine Community Housing. Urban Sites has experience in historic renovation and OTRCH has the track record of managing affordable housing in neighboring Over-the-Rhine for decades.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2021/11/10/barrister-building-affordable-housing.html

 

2 hours ago, ColDayMan said:

First affordable housing development in at least a decade planned for downtown Cincinnati

 

Developers are planning a more than $14 million affordable housing project in downtown Cincinnati.

 

Barrister Apartments LLC, a joint venture between Over-the-Rhine Community Housing and Urban Sites, plans to renovate the office buildings at 214-216 E. Ninth St. into 44 low-to-very-low-income apartments and about 2,000 square feet of commercial space. The total project cost would be $14.5 million.

 

Tim Westrich, vice president of affordable housing at Over-the-Rhine-based Urban Sites, said after starting an affordable division about a year ago, the company has been looking for a big project with a partner like Over-the-Rhine Community Housing. Urban Sites has experience in historic renovation and OTRCH has the track record of managing affordable housing in neighboring Over-the-Rhine for decades.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2021/11/10/barrister-building-affordable-housing.html

 

 

$329,545 per unit seems extra high especially for a building that is pretty solid.

On 9/24/2020 at 3:39 PM, taestell said:

I just noticed that the “Maislin Professional Center” building on 9th (btw. Main and Sycamore) has some for sale signs posted. I’m not sure if the adjacent Barrister House building is for sale too. Would love to see these go residential!

 

 

Glad to see the Barrister House getting fixed up!

Just browsed upon something INCREDIBLY interesting in the latest Hamilton County Regular Meeting Agenda for 11/18/2021.

 

MSD and the county are certifying the owners of Carew Tower and Hilton Netherland Plaza delinquent in sewage charges. Carew Reality INC.

 

They have not paid since November 1st, 2020. And owe $659,059.25 in unpaid sewage charges.

 

Whats more, the item report also reports on October 15th, 2021 there was a court filing for Foreclosure proceedings. Case Number A2103593 in the Hamilton County Court of Common Pleas.

 

If the link does not work, let me know.

https://hcjfsonbase.jfs.hamilton-co.org/OnBaseAgendaOnline/Documents/ViewDocument/Certification of Delinquent Sewerage Service Charges 35 W 5th.pdf -.pdf?meetingId=2329&documentType=Agenda&itemId=10775&publishId=5629&isSection=false

 

Court Case Summary found on the Clerk of Courts website if you type in the case number.

Edited November 11, 20213 yr by stashua123

Traction building received another tax credit. Hopefully it’s get redeveloped this time. 
 

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2021/12/14/traction-building-lands-tax-credit.html?cx_testId=40&cx_testVariant=cx_6&cx_artPos=0#cxrecs_s

2 minutes ago, Ucgrad2015 said:

Traction building received another tax credit. Hopefully it’s get redeveloped this time. 
 

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2021/12/14/traction-building-lands-tax-credit.html?cx_testId=40&cx_testVariant=cx_6&cx_artPos=0#cxrecs_s

 

Buried in the article it says they are waiting on even more tax credits before establishing a timeline. They currently have $8.5M in Federal and now $5M in State, for $13.5M in tax credits on a $55M project... essentially 25% of the project. Hard to believe the numbers wont work as it stands. 

Ohio historic tax credit round 27 was awarded today.Cincinnati had 11 project winners OTR cleans up again.

 

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/21154218/round-27-ohptc-awards.pdf

4 hours ago, wjh2 said:

 

Buried in the article it says they are waiting on even more tax credits before establishing a timeline. They currently have $8.5M in Federal and now $5M in State, for $13.5M in tax credits on a $55M project... essentially 25% of the project. Hard to believe the numbers wont work as it stands. 

Yeah I agree. I think that’s more than enough. 

Developers buy historic downtown building, eye potential redevelopment

 

A pair of commercial real estate companies has purchased a historical downtown Cincinnati office building with an eye on potentially converting the building to a different use.

 

Sunflower Development Group and Block Real Estate Services LLC purchased the Cincinnati Club Building, located at 30 Garfield Place, from Vulcan Property Management Co. at the end of November for $4.35 million.

 

Jason Swords, principal with Sunflower Development Group, said at this point, the development team is still determining its plan for the property. But, he knows the building has great history and that is something Sunflower does well.

 

“We will treat this historic building with the utmost respect,” Swords told me. “We’ll figure out what to do with the upper floors.”

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2022/01/03/developers-buy-downtown-building-eye-redevelopment.html

 

It is such a pretty building. It just screams apartments or possibly hotel conversion. 

^What a beautiful building! Will be curious to see what they do with this space. The event space on the first 3 floors make it seem like it'd be well-suited for a hotel conversion. 

Speaking of beautiful downtown buildings... 124 East Seventh St is under renovation. The Port bought it in June 2021, but the mailing address points to Rookwood Properties (manager of 1010 on the Rhine and Crane Factory Flats) which suggests it is getting converted to residential.

 

 

 

 

44 minutes ago, jwulsin said:

^What a beautiful building! Will be curious to see what they do with this space. The event space on the first 3 floors make it seem like it'd be well-suited for a hotel conversion. 

Especially with Garfield Place Hotel closing a number of years back, the area could use a hotel given the event space. Between the Cincinnati Club and Phoenix, there are ample events there to generate room nights. There is also an existing parking garage that practically connects there too. Add in FC stadium which is walkable from there, it sets up well for a hotel. 

3 hours ago, jwulsin said:

Speaking of beautiful downtown buildings... 124 East Seventh St is under renovation. The Port bought it in June 2021, but the mailing address points to Rookwood Properties (manager of 1010 on the Rhine and Crane Factory Flats) which suggests it is getting converted to residential.

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, Rookwood is converting it to apartments with ground floor retail.

On 1/3/2022 at 5:19 PM, taestell said:

 

Yes, Rookwood is converting it to apartments with ground floor retail.

New article out today on this project, which is aiming to have residents move in this summer: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2022/01/13/downtown-apartment-conversion-paused-by-covid.html

 

 

Auditor's website says the Garfield Suites (2 Garfield Place) was sold sometime this month for $12.7 million. Anyone have any insight on the purchase? 

Edited January 18, 20223 yr by Pdrome513

13 hours ago, Pdrome513 said:

Auditor's website says the Garfield Suites (2 Garfield Place) was sold sometime this month for $12.7 million. Anyone have any insight on the purchase? 

Interesting. The new owner has an address that seems to just point to a UPS Store in a strip mall in Newport Beach, CA. 

 

The LLC's Articles of Incorporation show contacts with the law firm Lindhorst & Dreidame at 312 Walnut, but I couldn't find any information about the LLC's owners/partners. 

In DRC Meeting minutes from November ( http://ilivedowntown.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/110921.pdf ) there is a short blurb about Garfield Suites that a new owner plans to re-open the hotel. Not sure if that new owner is this Phoenix Acquisition that recently purchased the property.

With the Millennium being demolished and replaced with a much more expensive hotel, it makes sense for the Garfield to get a modest renovation and reopen as an option for more budget-oriented convention goers.

56 minutes ago, taestell said:

With the Millennium being demolished and replaced with a much more expensive hotel, it makes sense for the Garfield to get a modest renovation and reopen as an option for more budget-oriented convention goers.

I could see that or micro apartments. From what I remember the building wasn’t in horrible shape just needed updated interiors and I’m sure new mechanical systems now. 

54 minutes ago, 646empire said:

I could see that or micro apartments. From what I remember the building wasn’t in horrible shape just needed updated interiors and I’m sure new mechanical systems now. 

It was originally intended to be a Doubletree and Suites. I worked on that about 8 years ago now. The previous owner had the flag and everything. The last owner was going to turn it back into apartments which is what it was originally built as. The place has been gutted on the inside and in rough shape at the moment. 

1 hour ago, savadams13 said:

It was originally intended to be a Doubletree and Suites. I worked on that about 8 years ago now. The previous owner had the flag and everything. The last owner was going to turn it back into apartments which is what it was originally built as. The place has been gutted on the inside and in rough shape at the moment. 

Interesting I didn’t know it was gutted. Well a modest renovation isn’t on the table.

Edited January 18, 20223 yr by 646empire

17 hours ago, 646empire said:

Interesting I didn’t know it was gutted. Well a modest renovation isn’t on the table.

Total hack job on the inside, hit sprinkler and water lines, city came in twice to fine the "demo" crew. Fly by night dudes with a truck and sledge hammers

I must have missed this one, it’s a pretty big project! anyway from HGC’s Instagram today…

 

 

Cincinnati unveils big incentives for $73 million redevelopment of Macy’s Tower

 

When the former Macy’s headquarters at 7 W. Seventh St. is redeveloped, the city will exempt it from paying property taxes for 25 years under an incentive package unveiled for the first time on Monday.

 

New York-based Victrix Investments plans to convert most of the building to 338 market-rate apartments that will range in rent from $1,350 for a studio apartment to $2,150 for a two-bedroom apartment.

 

The city incentives are worth $10.8 million to the developer over 30 years, with the money going into a project tax-increment financing district that will help finance it.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2022/01/24/cincinnati-unveils-big-incentives-for-73m-macys.html

 

On 1/20/2022 at 5:09 PM, 646empire said:

I must have missed this one, it’s a pretty big project! anyway from HGC’s Instagram today…

 

 

i dont know if i trust what's going on in this picture...  easy does it... dont want a larger scale version of this: 

12 hours ago, jack.c.amos said:

i dont know if i trust what's going on in this picture...  easy does it... dont want a larger scale version of this: 

 

Why causes you to say that you don't "trust what's going on"? Do you think HGC doesn't know how to do historic renovations? Does the Textile Building have anything to do with the Otte Carpet Building at 33 W 4th (aside from both being on 4th St)?

 

If memory serves, the owners of 33 W 4th applied for State Historic Tax Credits in Round 19 in 2017, but I don't think they ever received them.

 

By contrast, the owners of the Textile Building were awarded the State Historic Tax Credits in December 2020, and HGC appears to have begun work on the renovation. Now, it's certainly possible for a project to a) get HIstoric Tax Credits, b) begin a renovation, and c) still run into problems during construction. But I'm just not sure why you say "easy does it" as HGC starts work the project. 

Edited January 25, 20223 yr by jwulsin

24 minutes ago, jwulsin said:

Why causes you to say that you don't "trust what's going on"? Do you think HGC doesn't know how to do historic renovations? Does the Textile Building have anything to do with the Otte Carpet Building at 33 W 4th (aside from both being on 4th St)?

 

If memory serves, the owners of 33 W 4th applied for State Historic Tax Credits in Round 19 in 2017, but I don't think they ever received them.

 

By contrast, the owners of the Textile Building were awarded the State Historic Tax Credits in December 2020, and HGC appears to have begun work on the renovation. Now, it's certainly possible for a project to a) get HIstoric Tax Credits, b) begin a renovation, and c) still run into problems during construction. But I'm just not sure why you say "easy does it" as HGC starts work the project. 

(i have heard the work on 33 W 4th got carried away and cut through some structure during their work which is why it still sits vacant today)

 

this just a slight attempt a humor with regards to the image of the guy running the power equipment in such a beautiful & historic building.  easy does it.  take your time...  that's all i was gettng at.  totally in favor of this project. 

 

 

 

On 1/24/2022 at 6:24 PM, ColDayMan said:

Cincinnati unveils big incentives for $73 million redevelopment of Macy’s Tower

 

When the former Macy’s headquarters at 7 W. Seventh St. is redeveloped, the city will exempt it from paying property taxes for 25 years under an incentive package unveiled for the first time on Monday.

 

New York-based Victrix Investments plans to convert most of the building to 338 market-rate apartments that will range in rent from $1,350 for a studio apartment to $2,150 for a two-bedroom apartment.

 

The city incentives are worth $10.8 million to the developer over 30 years, with the money going into a project tax-increment financing district that will help finance it.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2022/01/24/cincinnati-unveils-big-incentives-for-73m-macys.html

 

City Council unanimously approved the incentives for the Macy's redevelopment. The Mayor and everybody on Council were all very enthusiastic about it. Hopefully, we'll see more and more residents moving into downtown over the coming years. 

Edited January 26, 20223 yr by jwulsin

I missed a story on the local news yesterday about this project where they were interviewing the owners of Fred & Gari's and Total Juice. Does anyone know if there are any protections for the current retail on the ground floor tied to these incentives? I would hate to lose Fred & Garis and Skyline specifically. 

2 hours ago, ucgrady said:

I missed a story on the local news yesterday about this project where they were interviewing the owners of Fred & Gari's and Total Juice. Does anyone know if there are any protections for the current retail on the ground floor tied to these incentives? I would hate to lose Fred & Garis and Skyline specifically. 

I talked to Gari of Fred and Garis the other day. They are getting booted out. Friday will be his last lunch service. The landlord told him he could relocate but rent would be increased by 300%. He is actively looking for a small space in the CBD but coming up short, either too much rent, or needs way to much TLC. Its going to be a shame they had one of the best lunches in town...

Well that sucks. I always liked Fred and Gari's, it feels like the kind of walk up place you see in cities like Chicago and New York and I really hope they find a new little spot in downtown. Obviously most of the other tenants are small businesses as well but I'm curious what Skyline does.

 

I think we need to have a Skyline near fountain square for all the offices/hotels, but with the Skyline at Vine & Court being renovated right now, and the existing one at 4th & Sycamore, I wonder if they give up that location if rent is about to triple. 

 

EDIT: I just wanted to add that this is the kind of thing that bothers me about tax incentives. I appreciate that some level of this may still be necessary for developers to do work in Cincinnati, but can't our council attach some strings that help rent control these locally owned businesses? Giving $10.8 million to a developer and screwing the little guys who have been there for 25 years, that sucks.

Edited January 27, 20223 yr by ucgrady

I find it strange that they are booting the retail tenants.  The retail spaces are essentially hiding the parking garage and not integral to the office space to residential conversion, so I don't see why then need to be booted and/or the rent raised.  

 

That is a sneaky busy corner of the CBD and the tenants were a perfect fit.  Very sad.  

Edited January 27, 20223 yr by nicker66

I think from a developer's perspective it's just easier to empty out the whole building and not have to worry about renovating a partially-occupied building.