8 minutes ago, nicker66 said:

 

Kimpton isn't dead, just taking a breather until things calm down.

Lol a breather? That project has been in the works for 5+ years? It’s a joke at this point.

Edited July 5, 20222 yr by 646empire

5 minutes ago, 646empire said:

Lol a breather? That project has been in the works for 5+ years? It’s a joke at this point.

 

2+ years of covid and insane inflation in the construction industry are far from a joke for a hotel project.   The owner of this project plans to do everything themselves (own, build, operate), which is probably why they're holding onto it for now.  

 

4th & Walnut owners selling and the new owners abandoning a fully designed hotel project and changing to apartments proves my point.  

Construction prices and the worker shortage isn't going to get better.  I certainly hope it happens but I'll believe Kimpton starts when I see it.  Pauses generally don't ever get re-started. 

Edited July 5, 20222 yr by Cincy513

1 hour ago, nicker66 said:

 

2+ years of covid and insane inflation in the construction industry are far from a joke for a hotel project.   The owner of this project plans to do everything themselves (own, build, operate), which is probably why they're holding onto it for now.  

 

4th & Walnut owners selling and the new owners abandoning a fully designed hotel project and changing to apartments proves my point.  

You didn’t have a point to prove no one is saying those things Right now* isn’t a factor. I was simply saying in a nutshell this project was first proposed long before Covid and Inflation, if I’m not mistaken it was around 2016/2017 when the market was hot. It’s been so long that they had to apply and was approved for state credits now twice. This developer is clearly not being aggressive/not very organized/ maybe this project really isn’t really a priority or this project would be done. Other hotels have been proposed and built in the same period (see Kinley, Towne Place, Courtyard all downtown and renovations.) This Kimpton is not very big or expensive (it’s almost the same size as the new Courtyard at 4th and Vine. I wouldn’t be surprised if the recently announced Pendry Hotel beats this Kimpton to market.

Edited July 5, 20222 yr by 646empire

54 minutes ago, Cincy513 said:

Construction prices and the worker shortage isn't going to get better.  I certainly hope it happens but I'll believe Kimpton starts when I see it.  Pauses generally don't ever get re-started. 

Exactly. Maybe it will get done but it’s certainly been a long mess and waste of time so far. 

On 5/20/2022 at 3:27 PM, Cygnus said:

Speaking of Sawyer Point, they started work on the renovation of the tennis courts this week. 

 

From January:

 

City to invest $500,000 for Pickleball at Sawyer Point

 

The Cincinnati Board of Park Commissioners will spend $500,000 upgrading tennis courts at Sawyer Point to pickleball, a fast-growing paddle sport that combines elements of tennis, badminton and table tennis.

 

The money will be used to resurface the courts, improve lighting by installing LEDs, buy new nets and make interior renovations to the tennis building, which is near Montgomery Inn at the Boathouse.

 

About half of the court area will be redesignated for pickleball, with half remaining for tennis. The Sawyer Point facility will have 12 courts, with eight overflow courts available from the remaining four tennis courts (a Pickleball court uses about a third of the space of a tennis court).

 

Cont

 

Original completion date of this project was July 15th. Asphalt grinding and repaving was completed the week before Memorial Day. New lighting was installed in early June. Unfortunately, they stopped at the tennis courts and didn't replace the four lights on the volleyball courts. All was quiet until last week when it appears some sealant was applied to the asphalt. This week they are supposed to be installing the pickleball courts.

Any idea when they will be complete?

Good question. It started raining the afternoon of the 26th and the site hasn't had any activity since.

From July 26th Enquirer (subscriber) article available for free via the Library: https://www.proquest.com/docview/2695077914

 

"A grand opening date has been set for Aug. 12, Lessis said. The courts will have a soft opening sometime before that depending on weather and when the work can get done."

I noticed the Chong has some interior demo or some kind of prep work going on today when I walked by with a fair amount of man power on site. I really hope we get some news about this project now that it got some money from the state. On other 3CDC downtown news, plumbing and HVAC are going in at the new bb.q Chicken at 4th and Race. Can't wait for that place to open in "early 2023". 

Sawyer Point Pickleball Courts were painted August 11/12th. I believe they still have some touchup work to do as well as to paint the lines for the tennis courts.

 

https://www.realla.co.uk/details/25395890

 

Textile Building renderings

I noticed the first of those sidewalk video boards (forgot the name) downtown by the casino this morning. They are everywhere in NYC nice to see them in Cincinnati.

New topic for the Carew Tower: 

 

1 hour ago, 646empire said:

I noticed the first of those sidewalk video boards (forgot the name) downtown by the casino this morning. They are everywhere in NYC nice to see them in Cincinnati.

There are a couple by Findlay market that have been there for a little while too. Not sure how many there are total but they are popping up. 

This article is about Pittsburgh but has a couple of tidbits relevant to Cincinnati: https://www.post-gazette.com/business/development/2022/08/31/planning-commission-zoning-gulf-tower-mayor-gainey-gateway-center-ywca-gnc-pittsburgh-downtown-partnership-kaufmann-s-affordable-housing-residential-apartments/stories/202208310077

 

It mentions that Vitrix LLC is renovating Pittsburgh's 300 Sixth Ave (former GNC headquarters) into residential, which sounds quite similar to the project Vitrix is doing here in Cincinnati, converting the former Macy's hq into apartments. And it seems like Vitrix might also be behind the Carew Tower redevelopment.

 

The article also mentions a separate project by City Club Apartments (same developer that did Cincinnati's mixed-use project at 309 Vine) that would add 20 stories on top of the existing 4-story YWCA at 305 Wood St. 

 

Also mentions some changes to Pittsburgh's zoning to make these kinds of projects simpler to permit. I'm curious if Cincinnati could learn from any of Pittsburgh's lessons.

So I think the boutique hotel project at 312 Main St may still have a chance of happening. I was under the impression that the space was going to become part of the Pure Romance HQ but now I'm thinking that is not the case.

 

There was a permit issued July 21, 22 for "NEW ADDITION AT REAR OF BLDG/ NEW GUEST ROOMS, FITNESS, MEETING ROOMS A 1ST FLOOR BAR, AND A ROOF TOP BAR" at 312 Main St to Fort Wash Hills LLC. That sounds very much like a hotel to me.

 

Also, if you go off the renderings that I pulled from the Business Courier, there is a clear split between the projects. I could've sworn there were detailed renderings of the hotel project but I can't seem to find them now. So far, my Google searches haven't produced anything useful.

 

 

The Moxy Hotel on Main has restarted after a “Covid delay”.  It is separate from the Pure Romance HQ project which fronts on 3rd and wraps around to Main.

2 hours ago, thesenator said:

The Moxy Hotel on Main has restarted after a “Covid delay”.  It is separate from the Pure Romance HQ project which fronts on 3rd and wraps around to Main.

It’s great to see this corner of downtown get redevelop. These are great buildings and it was long overdue.

I hadn't heard about Pure Romance moving.   Do they need more space, or are they clearing out to due to potential Convention center expansion/redevelopment?

9 minutes ago, JoeHarmon said:

I hadn't heard about Pure Romance moving.   Do they need more space, or are they clearing out to due to potential Convention center expansion/redevelopment?

 

They wanted there own building, that they could really make impactful, and become a signature project for the company. Nothing to do with the expansion. The building they are in now was the Delta Call Center building, its maybe 20 years old if that and sits on a huge parking garage. I dont see it disappearing anytime soon, unlike the old garages along Sixth Street. 

5 hours ago, thesenator said:

The Moxy Hotel on Main has restarted after a “Covid delay”.  It is separate from the Pure Romance HQ project which fronts on 3rd and wraps around to Main.

Restarted as in just planning is back on? Or actual construction is under way?

IIRC, Pure Romance's move was driven by them wanting a more unique office space with more of a modern coworking space feel, rather than the traditional office space feel of their current HQ.

28 minutes ago, taestell said:

IIRC, Pure Romance's move was driven by them wanting a more unique office space with more of a modern coworking space feel, rather than the traditional office space feel of their current HQ.

I preferred the old, more incognito location for Cincinnati's only pyramid scheme-- sorry, MLM... 

These building would be even better with a nice capped Fort Washington way featuring mixed use 5-7 story apartments on each cap. Each of the parking lots and the garages along 3rd street being redeveloped into 10-15 floor apartments.

3 hours ago, Ucgrad2015 said:

capped Fort Washington way featuring mixed use 5-7 story apartments on each cap. 

Always good to see someone who wants buildings on the caps. 
The corridors created would be pretty nice with the grade change up into downtown.

18 hours ago, 646empire said:

Restarted as in just planning is back on? Or actual construction is under way?

Construction about to begin if it hasn’t already.  I believe they will demo all but facade and then build new addition.  Demo will take some time.

13 hours ago, Ucgrad2015 said:

These building would be even better with a nice capped Fort Washington way featuring mixed use 5-7 story apartments on each cap. Each of the parking lots and the garages along 3rd street being redeveloped into 10-15 floor apartments.

 

Pretty sure the maximum would be 4 story buildings.

I have been told that the city will be applying for a planning grant to design the caps from the new Reconnecting Communities Pilot Program. Deadline for the program is October 13th.

^ and that it would be a park. This was just in passing, so hopefully this isn't a final decision or there will be some explanation about why it cannot include any buildings.

3 minutes ago, Dev said:

^ and that it would be a park. This was just in passing, so hopefully this isn't a final decision or there will be some explanation about why it cannot include any buildings.

 Couple things that immediately pop into my head, The extra cost of the caps to hold buildings over a park. Also the fact we as a city still cannot develop the empty blocks at the banks(5 more if memory serves me right), but expect the blocks over Fort Washington Way, to be developed sooner? Would i love to see buildings, hell yeah. But I am also a realist in this city that understands id take caps with a a nice boulevard of park space than the existing openings now. Think of the sound reduction along the corridor, the nice big welcome mat for visitors coming into the city with a beautifully designed park. If Oktoberfest stays in this part of the city, the parks will be a nice area for big tents and biergardens during festivals. 

I think a versatile park space is ultimately better than buildings. I know I'm in the minority on the forum about this topic. For many of the reasons @savadams13outlined above. 

39 minutes ago, savadams13 said:

Also the fact we as a city still cannot develop the empty blocks at the banks(5 more if memory serves me right)

Exactly what I was thinking. We still have those blocks on the riverfront along with

many more in the CBD. If a new arena is ever built I have a hunch it will not be on the site of Heritage Bank and it will be demolished and open up even more riverfront land. So no the caps don’t need to be developable for buildings in my opinion park-ish space is fine with me.

Edited September 2, 20222 yr by 646empire

Yeah I've assumed it's a big upfront financial cost, especially these days, to put up some mixed-use buildings. It is just a bummer because a park would not directly bring in any additional revenue, while only increasing financial liabilities due to the maintenance requirements. Plus it's just a bad look as many neighborhood park and recreation areas are in desperate need of repair. This will just feed into the whole "they only care about downtown" narrative.

 

Is there a reason Oktoberfest is on 2nd and 3rd? Why was it never moved to Smale?

Edited September 2, 20222 yr by Dev

3 minutes ago, Dev said:

Is there a reason Oktoberfest is on 2nd and 3rd? Why was it never moved to Smale?

I think just more space if I’m not mistaken, could be wrong tho. I do like the switch up/ not having Taste of Cincinnati and Oktoberfest sharing the same ole look(location).

4 hours ago, Dev said:

Yeah I've assumed it's a big upfront financial cost, especially these days, to put up some mixed-use buildings. It is just a bummer because a park would not directly bring in any additional revenue, while only increasing financial liabilities due to the maintenance requirements. Plus it's just a bad look as many neighborhood park and recreation areas are in desperate need of repair. This will just feed into the whole "they only care about downtown" narrative.

Agreed! I think it's good from both for the public perception and the long-term financial impact to use the caps to generate tax revenue and not just be a financial liability. I don't mind some park space, but it would be a huge missed opportunity if 100% of the caps are dedicated to parks. I'd even be ok with some low-rise infill (similar to the mini caps over I-670 in Columbus on High St) if that helps keep the costs down and generate tax revenue.

Edited September 2, 20222 yr by jwulsin

Agreed with some smaller 1 story buildings like Columbus, and since there are lots of intersections maybe just focus Vine or Walnut. At other streets the we could also copy Columbus and make some pavilions that are rentable or just have a café/space for food trucks for events. North Bank Pavilion. 

Team 1 of the four caps should be park space.  Maybe the one behind the Freedom center since the space in front of that is being turned into park space.  It can be used for Oktoberfest and other events.  The other caps should be developed with something on top of them.  Prefer to completely fill them with development but even low-rise on the edges like mentioned above would be better then what we have now. 

1 hour ago, jwulsin said:

Agreed! I think it's good from both for the public perception and the long-term financial impact to use the caps to generate tax revenue and not just be a financial liability. I don't mind some park space, but it would be a huge missed opportunity if 100% of the caps are dedicated to parks. I'd even be ok with some low-rise infill (similar to the mini caps over I-70 in Columbus on High St) if that helps keep the costs down and generate tax revenue.

 

I would imagine with a capped FWW we'd see development pressure on the 3rd street lots fronting it so a lot of new tax revenue from that development. Not sure it is worth the extra cost to build 4 story buildings on the caps themselves. It would be different if you could go higher.

1 hour ago, Cincy513 said:

Team 1 of the four caps should be park space.  Maybe the one behind the Freedom center since the space in front of that is being turned into park space.  It can be used for Oktoberfest and other events.  The other caps should be developed with something on top of them.  Prefer to completely fill them with development but even low-rise on the edges like mentioned above would be better then what we have now. 

I’m just a big believer that there is so much space yet to be developed on the riverfront and in the business district that making an investment in creating more just to sit empty for decades is a very Cincinnati thing to do and not in a good way lol

In terms of green space around Fort Washington Way, regardless of if we ever build the caps, the south side of 3rd St has a nice double row of maturing trees (mostly zelkova), which could be the beginning of nice linear park (if well designed and maintained). The north side of 3rd St has very few trees, so I'd love to see the sidewalk expanded and a row (or two) of trees planted on the north side of the 3rd. On the north side of 2nd street, there's a single row of trees (mostly cypress), but the row is on the north side of the sidewalk, which means that sidewalk never gets any shade from the trees. I suspect it's hard/impossible to add tree wells on 2nd St (due to the tunnel beneath), but creative landscaping (raised planters, pergolas, etc) could add shade and make 2nd St more attractive. And of course, the area will only feel inviting if we slow cars down on 2nd and 3rd, which probably means removing a few lanes of traffic. 3rd St is 5 lanes and 60' curb-to-curb (12'/lane). 2nd St is 5 lanes and 55' curb-to-curb (11'/lane). That's just crazy excess. 

 

Soure: https://cagisportal.maps.arcgis.com/apps/dashboards/077c8ec66d68459a94d3a7091c5a4938

 

4 hours ago, Dev said:

^ and that it would be a park. This was just in passing, so hopefully this isn't a final decision or there will be some explanation about why it cannot include any buildings.

I would love to have them put buildings on the ends at least overlooking the highway with park space in the middle. This will help buffer the highway noise on the ends of the tunnels IMO

I was thinking the other day, there is no reason that all of the north/south streets could not be converted to two-way between Second and Third streets.

2 minutes ago, taestell said:

I was thinking the other day, there is no reason that all of the north/south streets could not be converted to two-way between Second and Third streets.

I dont know, Vine street can be a parking lot sometimes, especially with people parking at the meters.  Maybe if they could add a couple more lanes of traffic, but I think the streets are too narrow to do that in Cincy. If you are going to go 2 way, I would start on the outside and work in. Plum, Broadway, Elm maybe before you get closer to the center. Even then, I think the streets are too tight. It would have to be an either/or. 2 way traffic or street parking. I think I would rather have street parking.

I'm just talking about between Second and Third (where there is no on-street parking), not throughout the entire CBDs. All of the north/south streets are already two way at The Banks, so this would just be extending that one block north to make mobility a little easier between The Banks and the Second/Third collector-distributor.

 

Although there was some discussion about converting Vine to two-way throughout the entire CBD. I'm not sure how far that conversation got but I'd love to see that happen as well.

2 hours ago, jwulsin said:

 mini caps over I-70 in Columbus on High St) if that helps keep the costs down and generate tax revenue.

The cap over 675 marks a change in scale from downtown to neighborhood. it would be a strange break over FWW imo.
Also, let's not take any construction cues from that, either. Poured Concrete Classicism is weird.

56 minutes ago, taestell said:

I'm just talking about between Second and Third (where there is no on-street parking), not throughout the entire CBDs. All of the north/south streets are already two way at The Banks, so this would just be extending that one block north to make mobility a little easier between The Banks and the Second/Third collector-distributor.

 

Although there was some discussion about converting Vine to two-way throughout the entire CBD. I'm not sure how far that conversation got but I'd love to see that happen as well.

I can see that, I thought it was 2 way at some intersections already? Is that not the case?

33 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

I can see that, I thought it was 2 way at some intersections already? Is that not the case?

Vine St is one-way throughout most of the "CBD": from 2nd Street to Central Parkway. Once it crosses into OTR, it becomes two-way. And for the two short blocks south of 2nd St, it's two-way. There have been discussions over the years about making it two-way along its entire length. I'm not sure where those discussions stand right now. 

On 9/2/2022 at 3:49 PM, jwulsin said:

Vine St is one-way throughout most of the "CBD": from 2nd Street to Central Parkway. Once it crosses into OTR, it becomes two-way. And for the two short blocks south of 2nd St, it's two-way. There have been discussions over the years about making it two-way along its entire length. I'm not sure where those discussions stand right now. 

 

Maybe a total pie in the sky idea but if the limit is in fat 4 stories, could the 4 bock development work for a new convention center?  You could essentially have 4 north/south tunnels on the first floor and a continuous floor plan 4 blocks wide for floors 2 through 4?  Could be an ideal location.  Perhaps one of the banks lots could be used for the flagship hotel.  I know plans are in place for the first the current location but I think building over Ft washunton way could be bold. 

7 hours ago, CincyNY said:

 

Maybe a total pie in the sky idea but if the limit is in fat 4 stories, could the 4 bock development work for a new convention center?  You could essentially have 4 north/south tunnels on the first floor and a continuous floor plan 4 blocks wide for floors 2 through 4?  Could be an ideal location.  Perhaps one of the banks lots could be used for the flagship hotel.  I know plans are in place for the first the current location but I think building over Ft washunton way could be bold. 

 

The idea just wouldn't work unfortunately. It's be a long narrow convention center and it would have to be built up a floor to prevent cutting the N/S roads between Second and Third. The long and narrow design wouldn't appeal to most convention users. Plus you would basically create a wall between CBD and the Banks. Plus there are height restrictions at the Banks so convention hotel wouldn't work with those restrictions either.