20 hours ago, taestell said:

There is an absurd amount of outdated wayfinding signage downtown that needs to come down. Not just for the skywalk, but those weird "Queen City Tour" signs and tons of maps that still include "Riverfront Colosseum". Maybe the new "Fountain District" effort by 3CDC will include modernizing all of this signage.

 

We can hope!

On 8/1/2024 at 4:46 PM, ColDayMan said:

Model Group demolishing one of the last downtown Cincinnati skywalks

 

Model Group has begun demolition of one of the last remaining skywalks downtown as part of its Mercantile Apartments residential conversion project.

 

The skywalk being torn down formerly bridged the second stories of the former U.S. Bank building at 425 Walnut St. and the Mercantile Library building at 414 Walnut St.

 

Demolition began July 29 and is expected to last through the middle of August. Cincinnati police closed Walnut July 29-31 and will do so again Aug. 6-7, but streetcar access is being maintained. Any other shutdowns will be overnight.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2024/08/01/cincinnati-skywalk-demolition-downtown-model-group.html

 

Skywalks are something I wish they’d build more of in cities. Sad to see it go.

I walked down 4th street a few days ago and its getting very impressive! From Lytle all the way west.

 

New hotel planned:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2024/08/05/blue-suede-otte-building-fourth-st-boutique-hotel.html

 

Edited August 5, 2024Aug 5 by 646empire

Blue Suede Hospitality Group buys historic downtown Cincinnati building for $1.9M

 

A growing New York City-based hotel developer has purchased a long-vacant historic building in downtown Cincinnati.

 

Blue Suede Hospitality Group on July 12 bought the 108-year-old building at 33 W. Fourth St. through an LLC for $1.9 million in an all-cash transaction, according to Hamilton County Auditor records.

 

The firm is planning to preserve the Beaux Arts facade and historic character while redeveloping the interior to accommodate an independently operated boutique hotel, according to Kenny Lipschutz, Blue Suede’s founder and CEO.

 

“We're very excited about the opportunity to restore this great building to its potential at what we believe is an important corner in downtown Cincinnati, and help do our small part to contribute to the great momentum underway in the surrounding neighborhood,” Lipschutz told the Business Courier.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2024/08/05/blue-suede-otte-building-fourth-st-boutique-hotel.html

 

24 minutes ago, ColDayMan said:

Blue Suede Hospitality Group buys historic downtown Cincinnati building for $1.9M

 

A growing New York City-based hotel developer has purchased a long-vacant historic building in downtown Cincinnati.

 

Blue Suede Hospitality Group on July 12 bought the 108-year-old building at 33 W. Fourth St. through an LLC for $1.9 million in an all-cash transaction, according to Hamilton County Auditor records.

 

The firm is planning to preserve the Beaux Arts facade and historic character while redeveloping the interior to accommodate an independently operated boutique hotel, according to Kenny Lipschutz, Blue Suede’s founder and CEO.

 

“We're very excited about the opportunity to restore this great building to its potential at what we believe is an important corner in downtown Cincinnati, and help do our small part to contribute to the great momentum underway in the surrounding neighborhood,” Lipschutz told the Business Courier.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2024/08/05/blue-suede-otte-building-fourth-st-boutique-hotel.html

 

Finally some news about this. This building is in too good of a spot and too nice architecturally to just sit rotting away. 

Last thing I remember being in there was a Frisch's.

 

This nugget in the article: "3CDC expects the 800-room convention center hotel to break ground at the end of 2024 or the beginning of 2025."

Edited August 7, 2024Aug 7 by Rabbit Hash

John Barrett was interviewed on the Aug 1 episode of the Enquirer's That's So Cincinnati podcast.

 

 

Lots of interesting ground covered, including his thoughts on skywalks (thinks they should have stayed up), Fountain Square (thinks it was poorly redesigned), the plans for the Masonic Lodge complex, their pre-Covid plans for a new office tower (now unlikely), and more.  

 

45 minutes ago, jwulsin said:

John Barrett was interviewed on the Aug 1 episode of the Enquirer's That's So Cincinnati podcast.

 

 

Lots of interesting ground covered, including his thoughts on skywalks (thinks they should have stayed up), Fountain Square (thinks it was poorly redesigned), the plans for the Masonic Lodge complex, their pre-Covid plans for a new office tower (now unlikely), and more.  

 

This interview directly hits on my points a few days ago and also over the past several months to folks on here talking about how the office tower and now the JW Marriott was coming in hot, it is NOT. As I said Construction is very expensive and W&S is not fast movers and no way financing is even remotely being put in place, it will be several years before such a project even begins to pick up steam. It sounds like even the Masonic Center and new Garage is 3+ years off let alone a JW Marriott. Also the hotel market will be absorbing 1000+ rooms over the next few years with Pendry*, Kimpton, Convention Center Property and more. As I said developers say and dream up a lot of things but most don’t happen or are many years off and take different shapes than what was envisioned originally.

Some work has started at the former Chase Bank in Dixie Terminal. The space is still listed as available on CBRE though.

Things progressing at the former Saks Fifth Ave/ New Paycor HQ and Salazar Restaurant 

On 8/8/2024 at 11:39 AM, 646empire said:

This interview directly hits on my points a few days ago and also over the past several months to folks on here talking about how the office tower and now the JW Marriott was coming in hot, it is NOT. As I said Construction is very expensive and W&S is not fast movers and no way financing is even remotely being put in place, it will be several years before such a project even begins to pick up steam. It sounds like even the Masonic Center and new Garage is 3+ years off let alone a JW Marriott. Also the hotel market will be absorbing 1000+ rooms over the next few years with Pendry*, Kimpton, Convention Center Property and more. As I said developers say and dream up a lot of things but most don’t happen or are many years off and take different shapes than what was envisioned originally.

He also mentioned that he has been in talks to relocate a F500 company to Cincinnati. 

 

Barrett is a frustrating interviewee to listen to. I know the deals he works on are so complex, but he is overly cryptic at times, IMHO.

Edited August 9, 2024Aug 9 by Rabbit Hash

15 hours ago, Rabbit Hash said:

He also mentioned that he has been in talks to relocate a F500 company to Cincinnati. 

Like the Josephs have been saying since the 1970s?

48 minutes ago, taestell said:

Like the Josephs have been saying since the 1970s?

Exactly

Some more details about the Western & Southern plans for the Masonic Temple building.Attached adjacent to the property a possible 300 room hotel on top of parking garage would be a substantial new building.

 

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/local/2024/08/11/cincinnatis-masonic-temple-set-to-transform-into-entertainment-mecca/74637639007/

 

Barrett sees the whole thing as a multi-level entertainment venue that can host concerts on one floor, dining on another, and even exercise rooms. He also wants to build a hotel on top of a new parking garage he'd develop next door. So far, it isn't clear where exactly that would be constructed and Barrett said more property would need to be acquired. (There is a surface parking lot on the corner of East Fifth Street and Broadway where a garage could go.)

"That would give you another 300 rooms," he said. "We're studying that right now to see if there's a need for it."

Edited August 12, 2024Aug 12 by ucnum1

A lot of movement and potential on this block of 5th St. it could look and feel veryyyyy different in a few short years.

 

- Metro possibly Moving Government Square Operations to the riverfront transit center (Yes please!, I’ve been saying that should happen for years) 

 

- The busy and sometimes out of control Liquor store is moving to the 4th St side. Metro sales center will take its place. 
 

- Kimpton Hotel about to be underway

 

If Metro moves its busses it opens a very interesting and valuable development site, rectangular in shape and stretches an entire block. 
 

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2024/08/12/will-metro-leave-government-square/74768987007/

Edited August 13, 2024Aug 13 by 646empire

Is there any chance we could convince the federal reserve bank to sell off their fenced off plaza that no one ever uses? That would be more ripe for redevelopment than a long skinny stretch adjacent to the federal courthouse.

22 minutes ago, ucgrady said:

Is there any chance we could convince the federal reserve bank to sell off their fenced off plaza that no one ever uses? That would be more ripe for redevelopment than a long skinny stretch adjacent to the federal courthouse.

The Government Square bus center is wider than you think. It takes up lots of space. If the center is demolished you would be surprised at the visual.

On 8/10/2024 at 7:24 AM, taestell said:

Like the Josephs have been saying since the 1970s?

Touché

I have to wonder if the sudden push to move the bus transfer operation out of the center of downtown coincides with Cincinnati Public's decision to move more students onto Metro.  We keep hearing about fights breaking out as students transfer buses.

I fully agree that we should use the RTC more. However eliminating Goverment Square is a bad idea. Moving the liquor store and putting the Metro customer service center + CPD mini-precinct there would be great. But then, why would you git rid of the buses once you put Metro there...?

I really, really doubt Metro will be moving out of Government Square. Not only are they buying the larger retail space for ticket sales, at a much larger operating cost, but they have been working on a large update to the square itself. Additionally, moving down to the RTC would be a massive time penalty, given there's no good direct way to get down there. Even if we assume the rest of the downtown network adjusts, that is to say there are more stops that are used more often throughout the CBD, with only 2 ways to get down there, both on the outside edges, a time penalty will still exist. RTC was intended for commuter traffic from the east and west, not regular bus traffic from the north.

 

Keep in mind that this is just a study to see if it's feasible. Nothing is budgeted to make this actually happen, which is concerning given that we don't know what would be delayed or defunded to pay for a relocation.

 

I guess it's good that the study will also look at other downtown options, but I would be surprised if there's anything viable given costs and existing plans. Everything that could be available to purchase is at the edge of downtown. Moving area D could be a good improvement, but it's not like they need to spend $93k to figure that out.

 

I think the article makes it clear that this is only being done because the adjacent wealthy property owners want the transit center gone so if it does move, that's why. It won't have anything to do with better service for current or future riders. Looking through the questions on the proposal site, it really sounds like this is just a defense being forced on the organization because of NIMBYs.

Business Courier story for non-Enquirer subscribers:

 

Cincinnati Metro looks at moving main bus station downtown

 

Metro, the region’s largest transit agency, has released a request for proposals to examine whether it is feasible to move its main Government Square bus station to the Riverfront Transit Center underneath Second Street or elsewhere downtown.

 

If it goes through with the idea, it would be a major change for the thousands of people who use Government Square every day, either to get downtown or to transfer to another bus, adding as many as 12 minutes to bus riders’ trips, according to an analysis by a former Metro board member.

 

Metro was in the midst of repairing and updating Government Square when stakeholders asked it to evaluate how the bus system functions in the city center, said Brandy Jones, Metro’s chief communications and marketing officer. She declined to say who the stakeholders were or to specify what concerns they had that prompted the RFP.

 

+12 minutes seems like a pretty significant change for someone making a transfer. This change wouldn't really have a major effect for anyone on a north/south route because you could ostensibly still get on and off at 5th Street in a scenario where the hub moves to the Riverfront Transit Center. I'm in total agreement that the Riverfront Transit Center should be more utilized. As a former love-drunk biweekly Greyhound bus commuter between Cin-Col, I really believe the RTC would be great for regional bus connections; far and away better than Galbraith Rd or wherever Greyhound, GoBus, etc is now.

I’m a big believer the riverfront transit center needs to be used. I think greyhound along with metro/ tank should all be based in it. It’s basically sat empty for 20 years outside of special events which crazy to think about. It will sit empty for many more most likely without someone like metro to truly put it to use.
 

On the flip side I’m not really anti government square either. 

11 minutes ago, Chas Wiederhold said:

+12 minutes seems like a pretty significant change for someone making a transfer.

12 minutes seems realllyyy high. I’d like to see this analysis, a bit exaggerated if I had to guess which is why they said “Adding as many as 12 mins*”. 

Edited August 13, 2024Aug 13 by 646empire

I’m pretty ignorant on this topic so could someone explain to me what would happen to the govt square station? Would it be redeveloped into something else or still remain a bus stop? 

10 minutes ago, cblhaus said:

I’m pretty ignorant on this topic so could someone explain to me what would happen to the govt square station? Would it be redeveloped into something else or still remain a bus stop? 

No idea, it wouldnt remain a bus top tho. The easiest idea is to extend Fountain Square activities over in the form of green space etc. More ambitious could be retail-restaurant buildings.

41 minutes ago, 646empire said:

I’m a big believer the riverfront transit center needs to be used. I think greyhound along with metro/ tank should all be based in it. It’s basically sat empty for 20 years outside of special events which crazy to think about. It will sit empty for many more most likely without someone like metro to truly put it to use.

Sure but they shouldn't use it just for the sake of using it. The RTC was built so it wouldn't have to be built later at a much greater cost and it's not a massive failure that it isn't being used to its potential. It's better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

On 7/11/2024 at 10:31 AM, Cincy513 said:

There's no reason the library needed to keep both buildings when they do nothing to stop the issues that occur on their front doorsteps.  

To be fair, I think they do what they can. What would help de-escalate the more aggressive cases would be the presence of law enforcement (who have made clear they’re not interested), or, crisis intervention (who I believe are still a “pilot program” and probably not staffed well). 

20 years of explaining the RTC to out-of-towners when Reds games let out 

24 minutes ago, Dev said:

Sure but they shouldn't use it just for the sake of using it. The RTC was built so it wouldn't have to be built later at a much greater cost and it's not a massive failure that it isn't being used to its potential. It's better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

Valid points, although I don’t think

anything would be/should be built to sit mostly vacant for decades. If you told voters back in the late 90s it’s the year 2024 and it’s had little use they would be very upset and should be. I wouldnt call it a massive failure but it’s certainly a massive waste. 

2 minutes ago, 646empire said:

 If you told voters back in the late 90s it’s the year 2024

 

The 1996 vote wasn't for FWW or the transit center.  It was for a replacement to Riverfront Stadium.  The Fort Washington Way rebuild and Transit Center were paid for mostly by the state.  The transit center's true cost was pretty low since they were going to have to build a new flood wall and put Second St. on stilts anyway.  The additional cost was making it free span instead of a grid of pillars like the rest of The Banks. The dirt from the old FWW levee was bulldozed to create the block that the Yardhouse and "Sing The Queen City" sit on. 

 

Anyway, it goes without saying that if nearly all metro buses are suddenly routed through the Transit Center, there will be a huge number of new transfers to the streetcar. 

 

53 minutes ago, Lazarus said:

 

The 1996 vote wasn't for FWW or the transit center.  It was for a replacement to Riverfront Stadium.  The Fort Washington Way rebuild and Transit Center were paid for mostly by the state.  The transit center's true cost was pretty low since they were going to have to build a new flood wall and put Second St. on stilts anyway.  The additional cost was making it free span instead of a grid of pillars like the rest of The Banks. The dirt from the old FWW levee was bulldozed to create the block that the Yardhouse and "Sing The Queen City" sit on. 

 

Anyway, it goes without saying that if nearly all metro buses are suddenly routed through the Transit Center, there will be a huge number of new transfers to the streetcar. 

 

Im not referring to the 1996 vote or any vote in particular I meant that in a general public opinion context. Should have worded it differently.

On 8/8/2024 at 10:37 AM, jwulsin said:

John Barrett was interviewed on the Aug 1 episode of the Enquirer's That's So Cincinnati podcast.

 

 

Lots of interesting ground covered, including his thoughts on skywalks (thinks they should have stayed up), Fountain Square (thinks it was poorly redesigned), the plans for the Masonic Lodge complex, their pre-Covid plans for a new office tower (now unlikely), and more.  

 

 

I now listed to that podcast interview.  I'm not understanding his comment on where he says inflation has increased the prices dramatically for steel and wood, especially steel.  Not that the prices haven't increased a lot, but I have heard this same story about the increase of building materials for a skyscraper every single decade.  I heard it in the 90's, I heard it in the 2000's, I heard it in the 2010 and now in the 2020's.  Not long ago they said that the Skyhouse building on the river couldn't go forward because the price of materials went up too much.  It's every time there is a project.  Then I see other projects like the Sherwin Williams skyscraper in Cleveland going up without issue.  I see other projects going up without issue.  I guess I just don't like it when I hear this, because it is always going to be true.  I never hear about prices going down allowing someone to move forward with a project.  It's either you do it and deal with it, or nobody ever builds a skyscraper again and I know that just isn't the case.  Prices for materials always just goes in one direction.  

What really made me hate this interview was JB talking about cities only can thrive if there are Mecca businesses and residential can't support sky scrapers.  The his comments about our drive commutes being a blessing. To me he comes off arrogant and out dated.... 

2 hours ago, seanian said:

 

I now listed to that podcast interview.  I'm not understanding his comment on where he says inflation has increased the prices dramatically for steel and wood, especially steel.  Not that the prices haven't increased a lot, but I have heard this same story about the increase of building materials for a skyscraper every single decade.  I heard it in the 90's, I heard it in the 2000's, I heard it in the 2010 and now in the 2020's.  Not long ago they said that the Skyhouse building on the river couldn't go forward because the price of materials went up too much.  It's every time there is a project.  Then I see other projects like the Sherwin Williams skyscraper in Cleveland going up without issue.  I see other projects going up without issue.  I guess I just don't like it when I hear this, because it is always going to be true.  I never hear about prices going down allowing someone to move forward with a project.  It's either you do it and deal with it, or nobody ever builds a skyscraper again and I know that just isn't the case.  Prices for materials always just goes in one direction.  

 

Major construction cost inflation in the U.S. is much higher than general inflation and has been since at least the 1960s. So it is a thing but not something the industry isn't used to.

12 hours ago, seanian said:

I never hear about prices going down allowing someone to move forward with a project.

Well remember that Western & Southern started building our city's new tallest building in November of 2008, so in a way W&S / Eagle Realty did wait for prices to go down by waiting for the largest economic downturn in recent memory. I fully expect them to move forward with the future phases of work when a recession takes hold in the next year or two. 

11 hours ago, lobanio0 said:

The his comments about our drive commutes being a blessing.

Yeah... not every day that you hear people extolling the virtues of commuting by car, skywalks, and corporate dress codes that require neckties. 

42 minutes ago, jwulsin said:

Yeah... not every day that you hear people extolling the virtues of commuting by car, skywalks, and corporate dress codes that require neckties. 

 

I bet he likes the location of Arrowhead Stadium too!

15 hours ago, seanian said:

Then I see other projects like the Sherwin Williams skyscraper in Cleveland going up without issue.

You’re missing a critical point tho, Sherwin is a local cleveland company that wanted new offices. They take up the entire building if I’m not mistaken so those kinds of projects are easier to finance but also once every 15/20+ years for most mid size cities. Cincy Companies are not looking for a new tower (yet) so any construction would be a spec tower which are VERY hard to finance. Also Cincinnati’s Great American Tower was just finished in 2011 so Cincy isn’t really that off timeline wise for its next skyscraper. Trust me if the Kroger team (for example) woke up this morning and said they wanted/needed a new tower shovels would be in the ground very quickly.

Edited August 14, 2024Aug 14 by 646empire

if Government Square becomes available to the city for redevelopment they only have to look to the past. there are old photos of where “The Genius of Water” stood for years as a median on fifth. Some sort of replication of that block/long island seems appropriate. Or, since Cincy doesn't have an identifying landmark, i.e., the Arch in St. Louis, the Seattle Space Needle or the Eiffel Tower, Cincinnati should commission a 1000 foot tall water-related monument called "The Shape Of Water". This of course would be a perfect piece for Zaha Hadid. she is no longer with us but here is a few examples of what it could look like.

On 7/16/2024 at 6:05 PM, SleepyLeroy said:

Weird it isnt on there, but on the facebook page it says Aug. 14th at 4:30.

MACY's Tour Update: Always wondered what this top floor looked like, it is being turned into a 'winter garden' and will be open to the top two floors. Overall a pretty cool development and the full wall windows in some of the units are insane. the north facing corner units have like 270degree horizion views. I realize I'd be a horrible realtor because most of the pics i took were of the views and not the apts themselves but caught a few walls in my images. The top most ones are almost done and the lowest residence floor at level 8 is just getting the drywall mudded so that may give an idea on timing. I had no idea there was a patio on level 8 either. It goes front to back along the old Enquirer building and provided alot of off street outdoor space for the future residents.  Also looked to be two ceiling heights and it depended on the floor which you got. All my pics seem to show the lower height and the taller floor was like 4ft higher.  Not sure i could do a fixed window building but that is just my weird quirk, i'm sure many would love these.  I'd really love to open my door on a winter night and be hit with that panoramic OTR view in the first pic though.

 

Edited August 15, 2024Aug 15 by SleepyLeroy
Title

Forgive the dirty outside views above, the windows haven't been washed here in going on 5 years. In some rooms a clear shot was impossible, but the tour guys there said the exterior of the building will be cleaned and the few broken windows repaired by the owners at the end, that wasnt part of their scope. Weird thing i learned, the garage was built and opened 10yrs before the Offices were added up top. I always wondered why all those hundreds of Facebook posts lamenting the demise of the Old Main Library said it was torn down for a garage when i knew this building is there. Turns out they were correct.

I went on the tour as well and was pleasantly surprised by the unit layouts. Considering the large office floor plates most of the units didn't feel like long shotgun units, however the studio units on the North side had interior bedrooms with no windows or natural light which isn't great. Victrix went pretty cheap on this project by keeping the exterior facade (as shown above) and keeping the existing Macy's patio, not updating the structure to add things like a pool etc. so part of me is worried that they own the Carew tower as well, but I guess the counter argument is they are saving money here to focus more of it on the more historic and architecturally significant building a couple blocks south? Anyway 341 units being added to downtown is huge, and since there isn't any exterior scope this project is really sneaking under the radar compared to a new build residential tower or even the CityClub renovations to the south. 

 

Amazing views to the North:

Terrible windowless bedroom in the same unit as above, unless you really like to sleep in I guess:

 

Bonus picture of the existing plaza which was renovated by Macy's around 2017-18 as a LEED project and has native flowers and is a monarch butterfly 'station'. But also a less often viewed side of Enquirer / Hampton Inn with great brickwork: 

 

Edited August 15, 2024Aug 15 by ucgrady

Hurts my soul considering the amount of evenings I worked late with my team on the corporate office remodel of Macy's. Glad though it's being converted into another use, just crazy since that was all renovated by 2018-2019...

The windowless bedrooms aren't necessary. Seems they could have put clerestory windows at the tops of the walls to get natural light from an adjoining living room/kitchen or something.

1 hour ago, savadams13 said:

Hurts my soul considering the amount of evenings I worked late with my team on the corporate office remodel of Macy's. Glad though it's being converted into another use, just crazy since that was all renovated by 2018-2019...

Well the plaza renovation is being used as-is! The other solace is that because the building had been well kept it only sat vacant for about 2 years, which is pretty amazing if you think about the Terrace plaza, Garfield Suites, 4th & Walnut Center, and countless other buildings in the downtown basin that have sat vacant for years or decades.

2 hours ago, ucgrady said:

so part of me is worried that they own the Carew tower as well, but I guess the counter argument is they are saving money here to focus more of it on the more historic and architecturally significant building a couple blocks south?

Last I heard Carew was going to be straight up luxury apts high end everything with rents to match. We shall see tho maybe the bottom floors will be a little more watered down and affordable, the top floors I’m sure are going to be insane.

Edited August 15, 2024Aug 15 by 646empire

12 hours ago, ucgrady said:

Amazing views to the North:

 

 

I did a cash-out refinance of my house (which you can almost see in this photo) during the first weeks of the Covid shut-down in an office space in this building with this view.  The building was almost entirely empty of people.  There were so many people doing refinances that they had us lined up.  I walked out of there with a large check which became a much larger sum of money during that crazy year in the stock market. 

 

 

 

I noticed this morning that the Kroger logo has been removed from the north side of the Kroger building. Could they be replacing it with the updated version of their logo that has been in use since 2021?