But... Dusty will be mad.

Which I referred to in my list of plaza amenities:

5 hours ago, Chas Wiederhold said:

screaming babies in Mozart wigs

 

With the Kroger HQ Building being such a deadening influence in the north-west portion of the street, I just don't know why we should bother making this section of Court Street pedestrian only.  Their building is just brick wall for nearly half the block on the northern side.  I'd say wait until all the redevelopment of the buildings is done and the new Kroger store has opened.  Then see if Kroger is planning on doing anything with their corporate HQ before going down this path.  Unless they're going to be a partner in this endeavor I'd say there are other things we can focus on.

11 minutes ago, bfwissel said:

With the Kroger HQ Building being such a deadening influence in the north-west portion of the street, I just don't know why we should bother making this section of Court Street pedestrian only.  Their building is just brick wall for nearly half the block on the northern side.  I'd say wait until all the redevelopment of the buildings is done and the new Kroger store has opened.  Then see if Kroger is planning on doing anything with their corporate HQ before going down this path.  Unless they're going to be a partner in this endeavor I'd say there are other things we can focus on.

 

I wonder if Kroger would be open to some art mural on that wall/some type of permanent interactive art/light display. Would definitely liven up that blank brick wall. 

17 minutes ago, bfwissel said:

With the Kroger HQ Building being such a deadening influence in the north-west portion of the street, I just don't know why we should bother making this section of Court Street pedestrian only.  Their building is just brick wall for nearly half the block on the northern side.  I'd say wait until all the redevelopment of the buildings is done and the new Kroger store has opened.  Then see if Kroger is planning on doing anything with their corporate HQ before going down this path.  Unless they're going to be a partner in this endeavor I'd say there are other things we can focus on.

 

This is exactly why I drew my diagram the way I did.

 

In a perfect world, yeah, I think a full pedestrian plaza throughout the block would be awesome! I think we need to build the demand for that by taking 60% of the roadway on the southern side and changing it to a pedestrian plaza. You can still have all of the ice sculptures and screaming Mozart-wigged babies you want on the smaller plaza. My plan also considers that you need to pay for this to happen, and this seems like a pretty reasonable way to cut down on price while still getting a highly desireable place to open a business. There aren't many businesses on this block of Court. Available street parking clearly isn't spurring the development this block needs, and by maintaining some limited parking at the edge of the plaza you still allow for quick uses like delivery drivers. You also maintain access to the Kroger garage.

 

If this proves successful and Kroger HQ decides to open up their Court-facing facade, and it becomes a lively place to spend the afternoon or evening, then you can discuss Chas' plan where you cut off traffic altogether.

 

The plan I outlined also would greatly reduce the number of people using court as a through street.

I just feel like no one should wait for Kroger to do anything. My idea is based off of the Barcelona Superblock idea: https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2018/08/inside-a-pedestrian-first-superblock/566864/ Yeah, it's a new idea, but it's not entirely untested. I'll admit, Ryan, my proposal was totally free and philanthropically funded by Cintifuse angel investors who run underground weiner dog racing leagues.

 

Further, I lust for the OG international style Kroger Building. It's base was far more open (but it appears as if the south side of the building was always more fortified). I also love the mechanical penthouse as an object on top of the tower. Cue someone reminding that this building sucked and was trash before the re-do and that nothing good has ever happened in this city after the great depression.

Haha I understand your plan, and thinks it's better than mine! But I think mine is more attainable with what our current administration and council would be comfortable with, and what funding would likely be available.

 

Also, I'm going to totally disagree with you on the Kroger building haha. Not that I think the current iteration is great. I probably wouldn't fight a conversion back to the old look, but I hate being able to see if shades are up or down inside a skyscraper. 

I'm not saying to wait for Kroger to do something.  I'm just saying to engage Kroger and coordinate any efforts in the area with them.  If they aren't willing to improve their terrible HQ design then let it be.  They may actually be willing to work together with the City of Cincinnati if there is a mutual benefit to both.  I've never understood the idea of pushing these public improvement ideas without co-coordinating with the local community and neighborhood stakeholders.

Damn Kroger's original Court Street street wall was completely flat and blank, that's tragic.  The original design was clearly inspired by Lever House in NYC: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lever_House#/media/File:Lever_House_390_Park_Avenue.jpg   My guess is that it was pretty grungy by the time of the redress, and they were probably getting killed by the heating and a/c bills.  I think the tower redress is completely banal whereas the original design was more eye catching, whether you like it or not.  They really screwed up the redesign of the base though.  Yes they opened up Court Street some, but floors 2-3 are complete turds compared to what they were. 

I don't disagree 100% with you guys. 1) @ryanlammi, I like your plan. It is far more feasible. From where I stand though, if you start with proposing that, it will get scaled back to something more conservative. Shoot for the stars (crying babies in mozart wigs) and you might land on the moon (Ryan Lammi's proposal). 2) Wanna wrestle about how cool the Kroger building is or is not? It's going down the next time we hang out. 3) @bfwissel I totally agree. Kroger must be a community partner in this, especially if they plan to operate out of their existing HQ tower for another generation. They stand to benefit from an incredible public space more than others and must be robustly engaged. I just wouldn't want them to control the process like Western & Southern with Lytle Park. Not that I hang out in Little Corporatia (a nickname I just came up with for the southeast corner of downtown) very much, but the whole project from Anna Louise Inn to demo-ing the houses on Arch Street and on and on stink of exclusivity at the expense of the public.

3 minutes ago, Chas Wiederhold said:

I don't disagree 100% with you guys. 1) @ryanlammi, I like your plan. It is far more feasible. From where I stand though, if you start with proposing that, it will get scaled back to something more conservative. Shoot for the stars (crying babies in mozart wigs) and you might land on the moon (Ryan Lammi's proposal). 2) Wanna wrestle about how cool the Kroger building is or is not? It's going down the next time we hang out. 3) @bfwissel I totally agree. Kroger must be a community partner in this, especially if they plan to operate out of their existing HQ tower for another generation. They stand to benefit from an incredible public space more than others and must be robustly engaged. I just wouldn't want them to control the process like Western & Southern with Lytle Park. Not that I hang out in Little Corporatia (a nickname I just came up with for the southeast corner of downtown) very much, but the whole project from Anna Louise Inn to demo-ing the houses on Arch Street and on and on stink of exclusivity at the expense of the public.

 

 

#2 sounds like a good excuse for a UO Cincinnati pow-wow. 

 

Also, I am a +1 on restoring the original International Style facade design. Advancements in technology will allow for bringing the design back with more energy efficiency and perhaps even some solar or other sustainable features included.

HJH Realty Corp is looking to add a fourth floor on court street(great clips building) keeping with historical standing.  They also looking to add 5 units to floors 2-4.  Interesting to see a entire floor level added. 

8 minutes ago, lobanio0 said:

HJH Realty Corp is looking to add a fourth floor on court street(great clips building) keeping with historical standing.  They also looking to add 5 units to floors 2-4.  Interesting to see a entire floor level added. 

 

Cool! I hope they’re allowed to do it. I wonder how and when that building lost a floor in the first place? 

3 minutes ago, thebillshark said:

 

Cool! I hope they’re allowed to do it. I wonder how and when that building lost a floor in the first place? 

According to the packet between 1968-1985, I would think someone would have a more exact date ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

Looks like a great project. With the 3CDC rehabs, new grocery and apartment tower, and this project, Court St. is really seeing a lot of investment. As this node develops further, it will help bridge the activity gap between the CBD core and OTR. I really hope a highrise goes in across Walnut from this building. Removing that huge parking lot would do wonders for improving the psychological connection between this area and the rest of downtown. I think this should be more of a priority than repurposing the library's north building, though I understand the latter might be easier to develop given its public ownership.

Don't know if there is a thread dedicated to court street yet...But the new Bridges Nepali location opened yesterday and is also open till 3pm today...

 

I stopped by yesterday and I've never seen a downtown resturaunt more packed. These owners know their stuff and really should consider hiring someone who could franchise locations throughout America. This has the potential to be the next ethnic, pf changs esq, level of popularity. 

I’ll share this photo I took last night as well. It’s amazing what a coat of paint can do; these condos look great! 
 

 

Man, Court Street is looking goooooood!
 

Court is going to be an interesting sample of what an OTR street might look like without all the design and height restrictions.

Some of 3CDC's Court Street Condos are starting to show up on MLS. The 1 bedroom/1 bathroom units start at $210,000.

 

I just noticed that the Great Clips on Court Street has started referring to itself as the "Downtown Kroger" location. I wonder if this is a sign that 3CDC is going to try to rebrand Court Street as the "Downtown Kroger district" or something like that.

1 hour ago, taestell said:

I just noticed that the Great Clips on Court Street has started referring to itself as the "Downtown Kroger" location. I wonder if this is a sign that 3CDC is going to try to rebrand Court Street as the "Downtown Kroger district" or something like that.

 

I think it's been listed as the "Downtown Kroger" Great Clips since it opened, roughly 12-18 months ago. I thought it was odd that were using that name nearly a year and a half before there was actually a Kroger across the street. I don't think it's a 3CDC building - or at least, it wasn't when Great Clips first moved in.

So how long do y'all think it will take the 2nd massive parking crater to be developed down Walnut (the lot closest to the Cincinnati library)? I'm hoping the downtown Kroger store could offset the need for some of the surface parking, particularly on that lot and allow for an developer to be interested in doing a new mixed use residential tower.

Edited September 29, 20195 yr by troeros

4 minutes ago, seaswan said:

Dont have the article, but I remember hearing a few weeks back that pedestrianizing court was no longer a plan, sadly

The document linked below contains the current plan for Court Street.

 

https://city-egov2.cincinnati-oh.gov/Webtop/ws/council/public/child/Blob/54302.pdf?rpp=-10&w=doc_no%3D'201901393'&m=1

 

It did not make sense for completely pedestrianizing Court Street due to a truck and parking lot entrances through that block. However the team tried their best to make it as pedestrian as possible.

 

Another huge concern was over parking with existing businesses. IMO this is a ridiculous concern as most of the parking up to the opening of the new grocery store was county employees or visitors doing business at the County Administration office. So to appease the business owners, angled parking was preserved on one side and added to the block of Court west of Vine.

 

Overall this plan is not the best step but it is a better step than what I expected out of the Task Force. It aligns court street through the block and expands the pedestrian areas on the south side. It will be similar to the "festival street" on Short Vine so everything should be level with the sidewalk. This would make it easier to revisit full pedestrianization or something close to it in the future.

3 hours ago, JYP said:

The document linked below contains the current plan for Court Street.

 

https://city-egov2.cincinnati-oh.gov/Webtop/ws/council/public/child/Blob/54302.pdf?rpp=-10&w=doc_no%3D'201901393'&m=1

 

It did not make sense for completely pedestrianizing Court Street due to a truck and parking lot entrances through that block. However the team tried their best to make it as pedestrian as possible.

 

Another huge concern was over parking with existing businesses. IMO this is a ridiculous concern as most of the parking up to the opening of the new grocery store was county employees or visitors doing business at the County Administration office. So to appease the business owners, angled parking was preserved on one side and added to the block of Court west of Vine.

 

Overall this plan is not the best step but it is a better step than what I expected out of the Task Force. It aligns court street through the block and expands the pedestrian areas on the south side. It will be similar to the "festival street" on Short Vine so everything should be level with the sidewalk. This would make it easier to revisit full pedestrianization or something close to it in the future.

Woah I hadn't seen this! Honestly, this is way better than I expected. Hopefully this actually happens. 

3 hours ago, JYP said:

The document linked below contains the current plan for Court Street.

 

https://city-egov2.cincinnati-oh.gov/Webtop/ws/council/public/child/Blob/54302.pdf?rpp=-10&w=doc_no%3D'201901393'&m=1

 

It did not make sense for completely pedestrianizing Court Street due to a truck and parking lot entrances through that block. However the team tried their best to make it as pedestrian as possible.

 

Another huge concern was over parking with existing businesses. IMO this is a ridiculous concern as most of the parking up to the opening of the new grocery store was county employees or visitors doing business at the County Administration office. So to appease the business owners, angled parking was preserved on one side and added to the block of Court west of Vine.

 

Overall this plan is not the best step but it is a better step than what I expected out of the Task Force. It aligns court street through the block and expands the pedestrian areas on the south side. It will be similar to the "festival street" on Short Vine so everything should be level with the sidewalk. This would make it easier to revisit full pedestrianization or something close to it in the future.

 

Any estimated date on when this will happen?

I like that it's straight and formal with linear tree lines and not too much cutesy pavement and slaloming of the sidewalks or the roadway. 

New restaurant coming to court street. 

12 minutes ago, lobanio0 said:

New restaurant coming to court street. 

 

Ah the court street Ethnic food district id beginning to emerge. 

 

Bridges- Cambodian Food

 

Hopping Hog - Chinese Food

 

Now let's get downtown an authentic ethnic Indian spot and Ethiopian spot! Let's go 3cdc you can do this!

6 minutes ago, troeros said:

 

Ah the court street Ethnic food district id beginning to emerge. 

 

Bridges- Cambodian Food

 

Hopping Hog - Chinese Food

 

Now let's get downtown an authentic ethnic Indian spot and Ethiopian spot! Let's go 3cdc you can do this!

 

Akash India on 6th street is good and reasonably authentic. I wouldn't be opposed to another Indian restaurant opening, but it's not correct to imply downtown doesn't have any Indian restaurants. 

Edited October 2, 20195 yr by jwulsin

2 minutes ago, jwulsin said:

 

Akash India on 6th street is good and reasonably authentic. I wouldn't be opposed to another Indian restaurant opening, but it's not correct to imply downtown doesn't have any Indian restaurants. 

 

Sorry wasnt even aware of this restaurant! Unless it's in a developed 3cdc building or located in otr, most resturaunts get very little coverage from local outlets. 

Akash has been in business for over a decade.

Bridges is Nepali, not Cambidoan. Le's Pho & Sandwiches at Court & Vine is an institution, IMHO. ?

Edited October 2, 20195 yr by jjakucyk

If we can get a critical mass of Asian inspired restaurants and shops on Court Street I am totally down for that.

 

Now we need some Dim Sum and Korean BBQ and we're set!

1 minute ago, JYP said:

If we can get a critical mass of Asian inspired restaurants and shops on Court Street I am totally down for that.

 

Now we need some Dim Sum and Korean BBQ and we're set!

 

It could become Cincinnati unofficial "Asian Town"

2 hours ago, troeros said:

 

I mean it's new and exciting. Give it 6 months, the lines will surely die down. 

 

 

Interesting, the lines will die down some but I think this place is going to be very popular for years to come.

A place that does hot pot would be nice too.  Not sure that's practical for the lunch crowd though. 

1 hour ago, troeros said:

It could become Cincinnati unofficial "Asian Town"

 

They'll have a long way to go to match Sharonville. The big problem is that so many of the new, trendy looking restaurants have a very similar and sterile feel. No one has been able to recreate the authenticity (the atmosphere or the food) that old places like this have:

 

https://goo.gl/maps/LTrPWTFMvhDMFiJ37

 

 

9 minutes ago, Ram23 said:

 

They'll have a long way to go to match Sharonville. The big problem is that so many of the new, trendy looking restaurants have a very similar and sterile feel. No one has been able to recreate the authenticity (the atmosphere or the food) that old places like this have:

 

https://goo.gl/maps/LTrPWTFMvhDMFiJ37

 

 

 

 

Yeah or whenever they turn a Long John Silver's into something else.  

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Ram23 said:

 

They'll have a long way to go to match Sharonville. The big problem is that so many of the new, trendy looking restaurants have a very similar and sterile feel. No one has been able to recreate the authenticity (the atmosphere or the food) that old places like this have:

 

https://goo.gl/maps/LTrPWTFMvhDMFiJ37

 

 

Yeah in Korea they call these places “meal houses” (translated). You sit down but the menu is short and on a wall somewhere. I like them too and it’s part of the reason I am both happy and sad for the new pho Lang thang. 

 

My my wife took me to the epitome of this in Korea one time. Not even a menu anywhere. You sit down and within a minute arrives soup and rice. They don’t even speak to you. It was like $1.00 and you are eating with a mixture of homeless folks and people dressed for work. A one story building in the middle of Seoul surrounded by amazing density. Just a matter of time...

Just now, jim uber said:

. Not even a menu anywhere. You sit down and within a minute arrives soup and rice. They don’t even speak to you. It was like $1.00 and you are eating with a mixture of homeless folks and people dressed for work.

 

Sounds like Skyline.  

Does Hopping Hog do lunch?  I can't find any information on it. 

On 10/4/2019 at 11:19 AM, jjakucyk said:

Does Hopping Hog do lunch?  I can't find any information on it. 

 

 

Yeah. According to this article, they have weekday hours of 11-3: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2019/10/04/exclusive-huit-group-quietly-opens-downtown.html

 

Quote

The Hop Ping Hog is open 11 a.m.-3 p.m. weekdays

 

 

https://www.citybeat.com/news/blog/21092228/cincinnati-mulls-entertainment-districts-in-camp-washington-on-court-street-downtown

 

Court Street and Camp Washington applying to be new Entertainment District. 

 

On top of the new 16 condos and 6 commercial spaces that was officially ribbon cut today by 3cdc, and the pedestrian redevelopment of court street, and other developments at court..I think it high time we have a dedicated Court Street thread. Please lock if there is already one and I missed it, but I looked and couldn't find anything. 

Are they jumping the gun a little bit? Also, did they completely renovate the center part of Court street? In a photo I saw online there appeared to be turf and benches, but that could've just been there for the announcement. 

Improvements to the actual street have not started yet. That could be either what's left of Blink or the empty parcel where there used to be a parking lot.

Is this landscaping new? Noticed in the 3cdc ribbon cutting event pics

 

It's the 3rd pic if you swipe above

Edited October 15, 20195 yr by troeros

31 minutes ago, 513to424 said:

Are they jumping the gun a little bit? Also, did they completely renovate the center part of Court street? In a photo I saw online there appeared to be turf and benches, but that could've just been there for the announcement. 

 

Yeah I think it was just there for the ribbon cutting for the Court Street Condos today.

43 minutes ago, 513to424 said:

Are they jumping the gun a little bit?

 

What do you mean by jumping the gun?

All that the "entertainment district" designation does is allow new liquor licenses to be granted to bars/restaurants within the district. It is not to be confused with the Designated Outdoor Refreshment Area designation which allows people to take alcoholic beverages outside within a designated open container district... Cincinnati still has not applied to have one of those.