Posted March 21, 200619 yr I have been reading these crazy comments lately on how big their CSA's has gotten. Indy 2.1 million, Charlotte 2.1 million for example.. Folks these are not METRO area's. Why do some people continue to think their metro's are that big? These aren't one cohesive metro area's but they continue to talk about it that they are one metro.
March 21, 200619 yr The problem is that these CSA things weren't invented just for counting population, but that's all we city fanatics seem to like to do with them. So many such numbers are tossed around so often at places like SSP that I'm beginning to stop caring about them. The teachings of ColDayMan must be having an effect. :speech:
March 21, 200619 yr I have been reading these crazy comments lately on how big their CSA's has gotten. Indy 2.1 million, Charlotte 2.1 million for example.. Folks these are not METRO area's. Why do some people continue to think their metro's are that big? These aren't one cohesive metro area's but they continue to talk about it that they are one metro. Is this opinion or fact you're stating here? :roll: You sound more like someone who hates the system because they don't understand it. Acadmics & pollsters are always looking for linkages. That is what MSAs & CSAs represent, their numbers are the answer to the question 'what quanatative connection do people have with a city.' To simply ignore ignore those who live "outside the city" accomplishes nothing. This ain't Wizard of Oz, they aren't going to disapear if you refuse to count them.
March 21, 200619 yr The problem is that these CSA things weren't invented just for counting population, but that's all we city fanatics seem to like to do with them. So many such numbers are tossed around so often at places like SSP that I'm beginning to stop caring about them. The teachings of ColDayMan must be having an effect. :speech: Do me a favor (because I have no dying desire to register at SSP to add one post) Start a poll over there with the question, have you ever taken a Urban Geography course in college? I'd be blown out of my socks if 50.1% or more said yes.
March 22, 200619 yr What do you all think about Akron being combined in the Cleveland MSA? I know Akron is seperate, but it is still very much in the Cleveland cultural and economic orbit.
March 23, 200619 yr When I'm measuring a city, I could give a crap about CMSA, MSA, or "metro." I measure urbanized area, the old core of the city, and the density. That is more telling to me. Akron's case is interesting because it lacks a media market, so it is much more "Cleveland" than Toledo is "Detroit" or Dayton is "Cincinnati." Akron also is just 28 miles away, but "urban" development hardly connects the two cities in my mind. I still consider Akron seperate and will for a long time. Same goes for DC-Baltimore. They may be connected by sprawl, but DC and Baltimore are completely seperate cities and have seperate indentities. I'd like to think that Akronites refer to themselves as being Akron and not Cleveland. Akron may lack identity because of the whole media market thing, but it has something going on and is its own center of business. I KINDA AGREE. SOME AREAS APPEAR TO BE LARGER BECAUSE OF THAT COMBINED MSA. Look at san fran/oakland/ san jose; miami, ft. lauderdale (palm beach); dallas-ft. worth; st. paul-minneapolis; phoenix-scottsdale. Lets just work on making sure our cities are well covered during the next census period!
March 23, 200619 yr Do me a favor (because I have no dying desire to register at SSP to add one post) Start a poll over there with the question, have you ever taken a Urban Geography course in college? I'd be blown out of my socks if 50.1% or more said yes. Well, when I think of some popular or important urban affairs writers of the recent past: Louis Mumford Jane Jacobs Joel Garreau Mike Davis James Kunstler ...none of these had backrounds in geography, urban planning, or architecture. The posters at SSC and SSP seem to be fairly well informed, but yeah, there is this "who's dick is bigger" mentality on those boards...where information sharing can quickly devovle into exchanging spin. I'm a bit too cynical for all that boosterism, though I post quite a bit at both boards....which I sort of wonder about as I'm not that super-interested in skyscrapers or "development".
March 23, 200619 yr In MY opinion, I think some of the stats are tweaked to add population...for me, when i roll into an area, I count it as when the area seems like a "city" area. I am NOT saying this because I am from Cleveland...but for instance, when I come into Cuyahoga county(and maybe Brunswick as well) you see a city area. It seems like you drive quite a ways being in a more densly populated area. If you are not from here, you may not know when Strongsville or Parma begins or ends and then the next thing you know, you are in Cleveland..it seems like a true "metro" area. A city surrounded by other cities..not townships or burghs. I have come across other areas where I have been driving through very sparsely populated areas, but it was still within "city" limits(Columbus). I have never been to Cincy, so I cannot compare. Pittsburgh, however, is another example....I feel like I was in the middle of nowhere on 279, then i go around a turn and BAM...the beautiful city appeared(and it is a nice looking place). To me, it seems that metro Cleveland is truly Cuyahoga Co and maybe it's fringe. This obviously is NOT a scientific blog..just an opinion.
March 23, 200619 yr Akron/Summit County is very well a part of Cleveland (and vice versa) for many reasons: 1. Akron shares the same media market as Cleveland (as mentioned above) 2. Route 8 is a very developed road/freeway between Cleveland and Akron - normally you have access points between two major cities, but everything is all as one on Route 8. 3. CVNP is the major roadblock between Cleveland and Akron. Both city's parent county's share this park and it's a well known fact that it can not be developed on since it's an almost fully protected park - meaning that you will see a lot of nature between the two cities. But that's quickly dissapearing as the west/east sides of the CVNP are developed, making Akron and Cleveland flow together even more seemlessly (e.g. Twinsburg, Macedonia, Broadview Heights, and Brecksville). 4. Akron Aero's / Cleveland Indian's There are a lot of things that can be said about Akron that makes it independent from Cleveland (e.g. each has a zoo, each has a downtown, each has a university, each has a major airport), but I personally think that the two city's complement each other more than not. If only the two cities worked together more often to create a closer connection, then we'd truly see the region prosper. We'll see what happens with future growth on I-77. Widened lanes, future mass development near Route 82, and a revised interchange for I-271 would all help the two cities connect closer together. It doesn't surprise me that Route 8 is being upgraded - this shows how many people travel back and forth between (Cleveland) Cuyahoga and (Akron) Summit County. Elsewhere in Ohio.. Cincinnati and Dayton are also comparable - two bigger cities with a close enough proximity to still be intertwined as one.
March 23, 200619 yr I measure urbanized area, the old core of the city, and the density. That is more telling to me. But that is doesn't give any sense of a city's size especially with so many cities that annexed land post WW2. In fact city size I find to be not telling at all. Surburban or urban, if there is a seemless flow of some threshold of density, then it is part of the city, despite political boundaries. Is Jacksonville really the biggest city in Florida?
March 24, 200619 yr Cincinnati and Dayton are not as intertwined as some think. Also, urbanization is really not contiguous yet between the two citys. Even in the corridor that is most urbanized, along the Great Miami River, there are stretches of open country between the larger towns.
March 24, 200619 yr Cincinnati and Dayton are not as intertwined as some think. Also, urbanization is really not contiguous yet between the two citys. Even in the corridor that is most urbanized, along the Great Miami River, there are stretches of open country between the larger towns. However, it is interesting to see many people living in Dayton and working in downtown Cincinnati.
March 24, 200619 yr I was looking at the Census estimates for CSAs from April '05 and Columbus is at 1.9 and Cincy is at 2.1million. Based on its growth rate percentage do you guys think Columbus will be the second largest CSA in Ohio in 2010?
March 24, 200619 yr My point was that Jacksonville wasn't the biggest city in reality and that city populations by themselves are meaningless due to the annexation of land by many cities.
March 24, 200619 yr I have noticed that the Radio stations in Cincy broadcast traffic reports up to I-70 north of Dayton now. 10 years ago they never went north of 275, if that means anything.
March 24, 200619 yr I was looking at the Census estimates for CSAs from April '05 and Columbus is at 1.9 and Cincy is at 2.1million. Based on its growth rate percentage do you guys think Columbus will be the second largest CSA in Ohio in 2010? Not by 2010 but in about 25 years if both cities sustain the same growth Columbus would pass cinci. However by that time, the cinci area will be combined with Dayton and it would be far ahead of Columbus.
March 25, 200619 yr Maybe if urban sprawl keeps up....Cleveland will be connected to Cincy, we will be one HUGE city and then this argument will be done!
March 25, 200619 yr ^ I know that was meant to be funny, but it actually could be true, especially in the Columbus-Springfield-Dayton-Cincinnati area!!
March 25, 200619 yr ^ I know that was meant to be funny, but it actually could be true, especially in the Columbus-Springfield-Dayton-Cincinnati area!! Yeah, it's only about 3.5-4 hours away! ;)
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