This looks...bad.

 

 

Oh no!   

This is sickening.... Our family visited the cathedral in 2007. One of the highlights of that trip....

 

 

This literally makes me sick to my stomach.

 

Edited April 15, 20196 yr by KJP

I've never been to Notre Dame Cathedral - but I am absolutely GUTTED watching the footage

And now the tower has collapsed

 

 

Sad. Nothing is forever. All the beautiful archeticture humans have built will soon also one day be nothing more than dust. Good thing we have archives.

The masonry should survive but if you've been inside, it's interior is made from thousands of trees. It will take decades to rebuild this. And it will be rebuilt. The French have a soul we can't begin to emulate when it comes to national history.

 

 

Notre Dame's spokesperson just said that nothing will remain of the frame. It's all been burnt

Europeans are good at repairing old stuff since they like to attack each other on the regular. 

Agreed, Europeans are good at rebuilds.  Look at Dresden or Berlin.  I visited Notre Dame in 2007 and it was remarkable.  The rebuild, I hope, will be as tasteful as Dresden or the ones in Frankfurt.

4 minutes ago, ColDayMan said:

Agreed, Europeans are good at rebuilds.  Look at Dresden or Berlin.  I visited Notre Dame in 2007 and it was remarkable.  The rebuild, I hope, will be as tasteful as Dresden or the ones in Frankfurt.

 

Slight difference, however, was that even Hitler thought Notre Dame was too beautiful to bomb. Moreover, it is nearly 800 years old.

 

Any rumors as to the cause yet? 

Ongoing renovation work has been cited.

Why rebuild? It will be mearly a fake copy that will never do justice.

 

I say build a modern cathedral in it's place that honors the original cathedral.

2 minutes ago, troeros said:

Why rebuild? It will be mearly a fake copy that will never do justice.

 

I say build a modern cathedral in it's place that honors the original cathedral.

 

Point of clarification:

 

MOST of the church will remain insofar as its structure, i.e. 13th century bricks and even much of the stained glass

5 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

 

Point of clarification:

 

MOST of the church will remain insofar as its structure, i.e. 13th century bricks and even much of the stained glass

 

I was under the impression that the fire isn't contained 

9 minutes ago, troeros said:

 

I was under the impression that the fire isn't contained 

 

It's not, that's what is risking the stained glass/artifacts/etc. But, from what I've read, even if the fire were to blaze another 24 hours, the walls and buttresses could still be fine, save serious stain from smoke damage inside. 

19 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

 

Point of clarification:

 

MOST of the church will remain insofar as its structure, i.e. 13th century bricks and even much of the stained glass

 

 

Turn it into a food court with a glass atrium. 

30 minutes ago, troeros said:

 

I was under the impression that the fire isn't contained 

 

And now to your point - French fire chief just came out and said he isn't sure that they will be able to save any of it in a manner that will allow the bricks to be built on again

AND

AND

 

Edited April 15, 20196 yr by KJP

57 minutes ago, troeros said:

Why rebuild? It will be mearly a fake copy that will never do justice.

 

I say build a modern cathedral in it's place that honors the original cathedral.

 

A vast majority of the historic structures you see in Europe have been rebuilt over the years because of fires, war, revolution, etc. Not all have been rebuilt all at once, but very few historic buildings are mostly original. The Notre Dame was a rare exception.

 

The original wood in the church is the biggest loss. I have heard that it dates back to the origin of the church.

 

The front facade looks largely in tact and the fire is contained in that area, I believe, but obviously still damaged from the fire/smoke. 

 

 

 

I have a bad feeling that the entire structure is a goner. 

 

Mark this down in history, April 15th, 2019. This will go down as one of the most historical day in human history.

Just heard an interview on NPR, the journo said (shockingly) that this wasn’t surprising to anyone paying attention. Notre Dame couldn’t raise the money needed for proper restoration work, and was basically doing what they could to get by. There were replacing broken stones with pieces of wood.

 

She said they were basically trying to raise funds begging on the street. Sounds insane now ?

1 minute ago, Enginerd said:

Just heard an interview on NPR, the journo said (shockingly) that this wasn’t surprising to anyone paying attention. Notre Dame couldn’t raise the money needed for proper restoration work, and was basically doing what they could to get by. There were replacing broken stones with pieces of wood.

 

She said they were basically trying to raise funds begging on the street. Sounds insane now ?

 

I thought France was a wealthy country?

2 minutes ago, troeros said:

 

I thought France was a wealthy country?

That's not how it works.

5 minutes ago, Enginerd said:

Just heard an interview on NPR, the journo said (shockingly) that this wasn’t surprising to anyone paying attention. Notre Dame couldn’t raise the money needed for proper restoration work, and was basically doing what they could to get by. There were replacing broken stones with pieces of wood.

 

She said they were basically trying to raise funds begging on the street. Sounds insane now ?

 

Not to be crass, but that might be employees doing a “CYA”, ya know. I’m sure they all feel awful

17 minutes ago, Enginerd said:

Just heard an interview on NPR, the journo said (shockingly) that this wasn’t surprising to anyone paying attention. Notre Dame couldn’t raise the money needed for proper restoration work, and was basically doing what they could to get by. There were replacing broken stones with pieces of wood.

 

She said they were basically trying to raise funds begging on the street. Sounds insane now ?

 

I had heard about this, too.  And what scares me about the perilous financial condition that implies is that it means there's a real risk that the insurance coverage also wasn't what it needed to be for a structure this large and iconic.  That's something that people can cheap out on when money is tight.  I pray not.

^^I believe she was a reporter from Time Magazine who has been covering the restoration.

 

She said because of France’s strict sectarian rules, the government was basically prohibited from contributing anything to the project.

Turn it into a microbrewery/climbing gym. 

If Catholics are good at anything, it's raising money. I wouldn't be surprised to see a huge outpouring of donations now that this has made front-page news.

 

These are the first photos I've seen of the damage:

 

 

These photos reminded me of when I visited in 2005, and was startled to hear an American gospel choir singing American protestant hymns.  When you're in Europe and are hit with a splash of something distinctly American, especially telltale deviations from the diatonic scale, it's like seeing an animal out in the wild that doesn't belong in that climate.  Like the time I saw a boa constrictor in the woods in Tennessee. 

I remember landing in Amsterdam, getting off the train, then walking the streets toward our hostel. There was a restaurant with outdoor seating and a TV outside, and as I walked by I'm like hmmm, what do they show on TV at a bar over here? A college football game -- an SEC game at that. I was floored. It couldn't have been live due to the time difference.

It'll be interesting to hear the final report on the response to this fire, because one commentator mentioned the terrible misfortune of the fire starting during rush hour and the inability of fire trucks to respond instantly, which makes us all wonder why there wasn't a fire station on that island.  But the fire also had the great misfortune of starting at what appears to be the exact center, meaning it was able to spread in many directions. 

 

Getting everything salvageable out of there tonight and tomorrow is important since the thing doesn't have a roof and a thunderstorm will further damage artwork and woodwork. 

Lots for French/Parisian company's are feeling very philanthropic and have donated to the restoration.

 

My parents were just in Paris for their annual anniversary trip.  They took pictures from a river cruise in front of the church.  My mom is a  huge Francophile and like many others saddened by tragedy.  It's very very sad this iconic building was ravaged by fire.  

6 hours ago, jmecklenborg said:

It'll be interesting to hear the final report on the response to this fire, because one commentator mentioned the terrible misfortune of the fire starting during rush hour and the inability of fire trucks to respond instantly, which makes us all wonder why there wasn't a fire station on that island.  But the fire also had the great misfortune of starting at what appears to be the exact center, meaning it was able to spread in many directions. 

 

Getting everything salvageable out of there tonight and tomorrow is important since the thing doesn't have a roof and a thunderstorm will further damage artwork and woodwork. 

 

We had local reports on the ground.  The issues is the location of the building, according to what I've read, people thought it might have been a "movie" and started taking pictures and video.  Once they realized this was a real fire, first responder's had problems getting across the bridges to the courtyard and garden as people were fleeing .

 

Obviously not inviting a discussion about religion - but even in the midst of such tragedy, it's amazing how it only serves to deepen our appreciation of what remains. 

3 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

Obviously not inviting a discussion about religion - but even in the midst of such tragedy, it's amazing how it only serves to deepen our appreciation of what remains. 

 

Well they aren't going to be able to find the volume of old growth wood (an estimated 13,000 trees) they'd need for a faithful restoration of the roof:

https://www.cnn.com/style/article/nortre-dame-fire-oak-wood-trnd/index.html

 

The only big old-growth forest in Europe is in Poland (it's amazingly big -- about the size of an Ohio county) and they're not going to concede to the taking of trees for a non-visible part of the structure. 

 

 

 

the rose windows are old, but the stained glass isn't. its amazing it survived though. the bells are very new too.

 

i have been in the cathedral many times, but my favorite memory was for christmas day mass.

 

it's just such a shock i don't even know what to say.

 

thankfully they saved a lot of the interior relics -- and took much of the statuary off the roof just last week!

I went all the way to the top, even that last little stepladder.

Some good in the midst of the bad:

 

Quote

3D Mapping of Notre Dame Will Help Restoration

 

Detailed 3D maps of the iconic and historic Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris hold out hope for accurate reconstruction after it was devastated by a massive fire April 15...

 

...But the information to restore the cathedral is abundant. Besides photos, art historian Andrew Tallon used laser scanners to create an immaculately accurate model of the cathedral, as reported in this National Geographic feature ...

 

^ that might be the first actually useful thing to come out of vassar lol. 

 

too soon?

We had a particularly spectacular roof fire a few years back.   Some of you saw it, IIRC.   A surprising amount of stuff, even computer and optical measurement equipment, survived.  I’m talking about in the fire bay.   The internal fire doors held and we were making parts up front two weeks later.

 

They probably had anti-fire protocols in place to evacuate/preserve valuable items.    I was even saying yesterday that as bad as it looks, there were inevitably going to be some “miracles”.

2 hours ago, jmecklenborg said:

 

Well they aren't going to be able to find the volume of old growth wood (an estimated 13,000 trees) they'd need for a faithful restoration of the roof:

https://www.cnn.com/style/article/nortre-dame-fire-oak-wood-trnd/index.html

 

The only big old-growth forest in Europe is in Poland (it's amazingly big -- about the size of an Ohio county) and they're not going to concede to the taking of trees for a non-visible part of the structure. 

 

 

 

 

Poland just might, for a Catholic church this prominent.   

 

Especially if it's even possible that this was intentionally set.

Here it is:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Białowieża+Forest/@52.7066899,23.7027862,55062m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x472040341f583fc9:0x4a455da6e037283c!8m2!3d52.7228852!4d23.6555674

 

Apparently this large area was reserved by nobility as a hunting ground for 1,000+ years.  It's very rare to see an old-growth forest on typical flat land.  Most of them are in hilly or mountainous areas. 

the Notre Dame tragedy reminded me of the fire that devastated the Serbian Orthodox Cathedral in New York three years ago (originally an Episcopal church built in the mid-19th century). There's scaffolding around it now. Needless to say it will cost millions to rebuild it.

 

 

^I had the same thought. I remember that catching on fire. Didn't know the name of the church or where in NYC it was, though.

2 minutes ago, ryanlammi said:

^I had the same thought. I remember that catching on fire. Didn't know the name of the church or where in NYC it was, though.

 

it's on W. 25th St. between Broadway and 6th Ave. just a couple of blocks up from the Flatiron Building