March 21, 20214 yr Author Intro phase 2 will be apartments, especially if phase 1 leases quickly. Residential leasing starts this summer. Look for a taller phase 2 vs phase 1. Max zoning height here is 175 feet.... https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2021/03/seventeen-10-story-projects-may-see.html "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
March 21, 20214 yr ^That's disappointing. I would love to have an office in that location and if looking for space, would certainly consider it as an alternative to across the river. But if it must be housing, I'd rather see condos than rentals. I understand the developer's fear of the office market. The best scenario would be the 17-story bldg with some floors for condo apartments and the remaining floors be offices, whether for rent or office condos. That would make a unique product even more unique.
March 21, 20214 yr Author 17 minutes ago, Pugu said: ^That's disappointing. I would love to have an office in that location and if looking for space, would certainly consider it as an alternative to across the river. But if it must be housing, I'd rather see condos than rentals. I understand the developer's fear of the office market. The best scenario would be the 17-story bldg with some floors for condo apartments and the remaining floors be offices, whether for rent or office condos. That would make a unique product even more unique. Condos will only happen if Harbor Bay can get an equity partner to guarantee the 50 percent pre-sale that the banks are requiring before they will finance a project. And Harbor Bay doesn't do equity partners. They fly solo on their projects. So it will be apartments. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
March 21, 20214 yr ^They don't need an equity partner, just guts to do it (putting up the guarantee themselves).
March 22, 20214 yr 4 hours ago, Pugu said: ^They don't need an equity partner, just guts to do it (putting up the guarantee themselves). Which they’re not gonna do lol. Unfortunately
March 22, 20214 yr ^Yeah, I guess not. But its so crazy. I know quite a few people--myself included--that would buy a new, well made condo unit in Ohio City (or Downtown). In fact, they WANT such a place (myself included). But none of us want to pay $24k-$48k/year in rent, but would pay $18k-$30k/year in a mortgage for what would be the exact same place. There is tremendous demand for such, yet no one is building. The last condo project i know of is Quattro in Little Italy. Just curious---did those all sell out? And if so, how quickly?
March 22, 20214 yr 19 minutes ago, Pugu said: ^Yeah, I guess not. But its so crazy. I know quite a few people--myself included--that would buy a new, well made condo unit in Ohio City (or Downtown). In fact, they WANT such a place (myself included). But none of us want to pay $24k-$48k/year in rent, but would pay $18k-$30k/year in a mortgage for what would be the exact same place. There is tremendous demand for such, yet no one is building. The last condo project i know of is Quattro in Little Italy. Just curious---did those all sell out? And if so, how quickly? 2 remain which is still pretty good for the price range, number of units, and how soon it was built. I do wish they would build condos for phase 2. Girlfriend and I are planning to buy in Ohio City in ~2 years and our dream is that they make phase 2 for sale. It's a long shot, but here's at least one willing pre-sale hoping for it.
March 22, 20214 yr ^and me too---exactly my point---there are two of us just here on this board---there are probably thousands of others who would to buy a place in Ohio city (or Downtown) in a bldg vs. a townhome or house.
March 22, 20214 yr ^ I agree with that point. The building I lived in for a number of years is a high rise with predominantly condos - but also apartments. The blend of the two works very well. Many professional people want the lifestyle offered by a modern high rise building with a great view and desirable amenities but they don't really want to rent. That lifestyle seems to be very hard to find in Cleveland. Sure, there are great new apartment buildings offering a luxury high rise lifestyle - but what's available for the working or retired professional who wants to own? This is not a comment specific to INTRO - more general - but I can't help thinking that a high rise luxury building that has (at least) a good percentage of condos would do very well in this town. Edited March 22, 20214 yr by CleveFan
March 22, 20214 yr Granted it was 35 years ago, but at that time the only condos close to the CBD were on the Gold Coast in Lakewood. I had one and kinda reverse commuted to UC. I would think that the market should support condo development in the core. Edited March 22, 20214 yr by Frmr CLEder
March 22, 20214 yr Condo associations are really powerful, so everyone involved with a condo project assumes they are going to be sued. For a lot of developers the risk isn't worth the reward.
March 22, 20214 yr 15 hours ago, tykaps said: 2 remain which is still pretty good for the price range, number of units, and how soon it was built. I do wish they would build condos for phase 2. Girlfriend and I are planning to buy in Ohio City in ~2 years and our dream is that they make phase 2 for sale. It's a long shot, but here's at least one willing pre-sale hoping for it. If not, I can get ya a deal on a condo at Stonebridge 😉
March 22, 20214 yr 37 minutes ago, mtnbikefan said: Condo associations are really powerful, so everyone involved with a condo project assumes they are going to be sued. For a lot of developers the risk isn't worth the reward. Please explain further if you can. Really interested in why this giant market segment is not being served.
March 22, 20214 yr On 3/21/2021 at 1:54 AM, originaljbw said: I'm surprised they didn't poach Benesch or some other downtown firm looking for new office space for phase 2. It's literally 1 mile away and 1 rapid stop from the CBD that reminds me, ohio needs to get with the program and legalize weed so they can publicize downtown with signs to 'come and chill out with your cbd in the cbd.' or ... something like that? ... sorry 😂
March 22, 20214 yr Hate to be a grouch, but maybe the bi-annual "why aren't developers going crazy building condos in the central business district since there is such a huge demand for them" discussion can move to a more appropriate thread so it doesn't bog down construction information in this thread.
March 22, 20214 yr 13 minutes ago, Pugu said: Please explain further if you can. Really interested in why this giant market segment is not being served. It's pretty par for the course for condo associations to wind up suing the developer, architect, engineer, etc. for SOMETHING down the line. As such, most developers, architects, engineers, and even lenders, are extremely hesitant to even be involved in condo developments. As a result, even if there's a market for it, it's often not worth the added risk, and therefore no new inventory comes online. It's even a problem in hot markets. The only markets that seem to have figured it out are in the south. Atlanta is a heavy "new condo mid and highrise" market.
March 22, 20214 yr 31 minutes ago, Htsguy said: Hate to be a grouch, but maybe the bi-annual "why aren't developers going crazy building condos in the central business district since there is such a huge demand for them" discussion can move to a more appropriate thread so it doesn't bog down construction information in this thread. Ding Ding Ding!!! We have a winner! Lets get back on the topic.
March 22, 20214 yr ^Sorry. I moved the discussion (for those interested) to the "Cleveland" Housing Market" thread.
April 5, 20214 yr Excellent article by Steven Litt. It appears to NOT be behind the paywall. Lots of interesting info in the article. There are a bunch more pictures and a video: Developers of Intro apartment project in Ohio City sing virtues of mass timber construction https://www.cleveland.com/news/2021/04/developers-of-intro-apartment-project-in-ohio-city-sing-virtues-of-mass-timber-construction.html CLEVELAND, Ohio — In a no-touch world of glowing screens, Zoom calls, and virtual reality, it’s encouraging to see something indisputably authentic that you can rap your knuckles on — like a big building made of good old wood. Authenticity is one of the big ideas behind Intro, a $145 million Cleveland apartment building rising in Ohio City that will soon briefly enjoy bragging rights as America’s tallest mass timber building — a structure made of glue-laminated columns and beams, and cross-laminated floor panels. .... Uncertainties caused by the coronavirus pandemic persuaded Whelan to hold off on the next building until he’s sure there’s demand for office space or more residential units. Whatever Harbor Bay decides, Whelan said he wants to go even higher than the 10 stories originally planned for the second building. “We’re comfortably able to push the limits on that second building, most likely in the mid-teens,’' he said. When is the last time I-71 turned a profit?
April 5, 20214 yr So what's not to like about this project? Kinda bummed that Milwaukee is going to top us out soon with their own taller, mass timber framed building, but every major city is going to want one of these projects soon. Interesting that CLE and Milwaukee are taking the lead considering the upfront costs for timber are slightly higher than concrete and steel. But those costs are going to come down, especially because (as the article notes) the U.S. is just now breaking into the raw material side of the business. Our land and forest cover are so much vaster than Europe that we'll be able to muscle down the costs of wood framed buildings by supply alone. It's just a question of how quickly demand from builders will grow as well.
April 5, 20214 yr 5 hours ago, Dougal said: ^^Whalen, not Whelan, Mr. Litt. 🙂 Looks like he fixed it. 👍
April 6, 20214 yr 6 hours ago, jam40jeff said: Looks like he fixed it. 👍 After I sent him an email. 🙂 Remember: It's the Year of the Snake
April 6, 20214 yr 6 minutes ago, Dougal said: After I sent him an email. 🙂 I honestly think if you correct errors like that, you should get compensated.
April 7, 20214 yr I didn't realize how much longer one section of the V was than the other. What an impressive building. And it will only get better if the second phase is built. My only complaint is they are not for sale units. I'm no expert but that seems like a missed opportunity there. Guess the economic's weren't feasible.
April 7, 20214 yr Can't get enough INTRO? A few more from the pedestrian perspective on 4/6. Talk about great street presence!
April 7, 20214 yr Darn, the windows are reflective? From all the renderings I thought we'd be able to see inside.
April 8, 20214 yr 6 hours ago, surfohio said: Darn, the windows are reflective? From all the renderings I thought we'd be able to see inside. You will at night with the lights on inside! That’s why I do my neighborhood “exploratory” walks after sundown, lol.
April 8, 20214 yr I love this project and what it can mean for the historically and culturally-significant, yet struggling, Westside Market. I used to shop there (occasionally Central Market too before Gateway) when I lived in Lakewood and always looked forward to the experience. Edited April 8, 20214 yr by Frmr CLEder
April 8, 20214 yr wow they are really making time with this construction, aren’t they? hopefully the residential tower is announced and moves forward soon. it would seem like it would be easiest to do that by keeping the work going for phase II while this phase I building finishes up.
April 8, 20214 yr 1 hour ago, mrnyc said: hopefully the residential tower is announced and moves forward soon. it would seem like it would be easiest to do that by keeping the work going for phase II while this phase I building finishes up. Me too. I like phase 1, but always thought phase 2 was the sexier building.
April 9, 20214 yr On 4/6/2021 at 5:33 PM, Agreene said: As of 4/6/21 Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk AGreene - do you have high res versions of these??
April 9, 20214 yr AGreene - do you have high res versions of these??I do, the drone takes them in 4K and they are crystal clear on my phone. The issue I have is trying to upload them on this forum. The only way I’ve found that works for me is using the Tapatalk app which I use the free version and it doesn’t allow me to upload the “bigger” quality shots. Which of course makes these look blurry. I’m all ears if you know of a better/easier way to upload photos? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
April 9, 20214 yr Author 22 minutes ago, Agreene said: I do, the drone takes them in 4K and they are crystal clear on my phone. The issue I have is trying to upload them on this forum. The only way I’ve found that works for me is using the Tapatalk app which I use the free version and it doesn’t allow me to upload the “bigger” quality shots. Which of course makes these look blurry. I’m all ears if you know of a better/easier way to upload photos? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Easy! Please e-mail them all to me at [email protected] and I'll post them -- may I include a few in my NEOtrans blog with your photo credit, of course? 😉 "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
April 10, 20214 yr Easy! Please e-mail them all to me at [email protected] and I'll post them -- may I include a few in my NEOtrans blog with your photo credit, of course? [emoji6]I can definitely do that and sounds good to me on the blog! Thank you!Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
April 20, 20214 yr I was checking the listing online and saw the retail site plan had been recently updated. AT&T is new. And the restaurant space is much bigger with an announcement coming soon. I'm a bit confused though about how the restaurant is taking up space where the first floor walkway through the building was...
April 20, 20214 yr I believe that both the restaurant and the cafe will be concepts from Dan Whalen himself, as he is entering the hospitality space.
April 20, 20214 yr 1 hour ago, tykaps said: I was checking the listing online and saw the retail site plan had been recently updated. AT&T is new. And the restaurant space is much bigger with an announcement coming soon. I'm a bit confused though about how the restaurant is taking up space where the first floor walkway through the building was... The other odd thing is that the Coffee/Cafe has an opening in the second floor that could be viewed down from another use if that space is leased. Edited April 20, 20214 yr by Firenze98 https://www.instagram.com/cle_and_beyond/https://www.instagram.com/jbkaufer/
April 20, 20214 yr It will be interesting to see who gets Lululemon....Since the pop up on 29th seems to be doing well and I know they want to end up in one of the new retail spaces. Will it be Intro or Church and State??
April 21, 20214 yr 9 hours ago, tykaps said: I was checking the listing online and saw the retail site plan had been recently updated. AT&T is new. And the restaurant space is much bigger with an announcement coming soon. I'm a bit confused though about how the restaurant is taking up space where the first floor walkway through the building was... So Church and State lost AT&T to INTRO, interesting. I wonder what happened.
April 21, 20214 yr 7 hours ago, mack34 said: It will be interesting to see who gets Lululemon....Since the pop up on 29th seems to be doing well and I know they want to end up in one of the new retail spaces. Will it be Intro or Church and State?? I feel as though it would do better in Intro based off location and visibility but at this point Church & State desperately needs to land them.
April 21, 20214 yr A nice spillover from the pace of rentals: with relatively limited space left, Harbor Bay can begin steering potential leasees to INTRO II, or whatever they will be calling their southern building. Remember: It's the Year of the Snake
May 7, 20214 yr A quick pic from a couple nights ago: I took it while waiting at the traffic light at Columbus and Abbey. Sorry it's a little blurry... What a GREAT NEIGHBORHOOD this will be in a couple years with so many NEW and Recent Developments taking place in the surrounding areas including: Waterford Bluffs Apartments -- 240 units Waverly & Oak -- 122 units The Quarter 3 & 4 – 200 units Bridgeworks – 130 room hotel & 170 units The Tappan -- 95 units The Lincoln -- 82 units Grosvenor Place -- 21 units Electric Gardens -- 130 units Lincoln Park Flats – 40 units Church & State – 170 units The Dexter -- 115 units Hulett Hotel -- 25-rooms ??? St. Joseph Commons – 68 supportive units TREO -- 171 units The Pivot Center for Art, Dance and Expression MetroHealth & NRP Group’s 3 New Apartment Buildings -- total of 250 units MetroHealth -- New 11 Floor LEED-Certified hospital Not to mention all the projects going on in DOWNTOWN and the FLATS: City Club building -- 300 units Flats East Bank Riverfront Restaurants Thunderbird Project: The Avian -- Brewdog Brew Pub Great Lakes Brewing -- Brew Pub ??? South Bank Innovation District: Cleveland Whiskey -- DISTILLERY & RESTAURANT The Viaduct -- 173 units ??? 1250 Riverbed St. – 80 units ??? Nautica Waterfront District -- 500 units ??? The Lumen -- 318 units Sherwin-Williams Global Headquarters Rock & Roll Hall of Fame and Museum -- 50,000 SF NuCLEus -- 250 units ??? 12th & Avenue Apts – 35 units Flats East Bank Phase 3 / Kenect Cleveland – 325 units Former Huntington building -- 850 units 75 Public Square -- 125 units 55 Public Square – 150 units & Offices And these are JUST the projects either recently completed and or New Projects just in Ohio City, Tremont, and Downtown... Build Baby Build!! Edited May 7, 20214 yr by Larry1962 Typos and more details
May 7, 20214 yr 4 hours ago, Larry1962 said: A quick pic from a couple nights ago: I took it while waiting at the traffic light at Columbus and Abbey. Sorry it's a little blurry... What a GREAT NEIGHBORHOOD this will be in a couple years with so many NEW and Recent Developments taking place in the surrounding areas including: Waterford Bluffs Apartments -- 240 units Waverly & Oak -- 122 units The Quarter 3 & 4 – 200 units Bridgeworks – 130 room hotel & 170 units The Tappan -- 95 units The Lincoln -- 82 units Grosvenor Place -- 21 units Electric Gardens -- 130 units Lincoln Park Flats – 40 units Church & State – 170 units The Dexter -- 115 units Hulett Hotel -- 25-rooms ??? St. Joseph Commons – 68 supportive units TREO -- 171 units The Pivot Center for Art, Dance and Expression MetroHealth & NRP Group’s 3 New Apartment Buildings -- total of 250 units MetroHealth -- New 11 Floor LEED-Certified hospital Not to mention all the projects going on in DOWNTOWN and the FLATS: City Club building -- 300 units Flats East Bank Riverfront Restaurants Thunderbird Project: The Avian -- Brewdog Brew Pub Great Lakes Brewing -- Brew Pub ??? South Bank Innovation District: Cleveland Whiskey -- DISTILLERY & RESTAURANT The Viaduct -- 173 units ??? 1250 Riverbed St. – 80 units ??? Nautica Waterfront District -- 500 units ??? The Lumen -- 318 units Sherwin-Williams Global Headquarters Rock & Roll Hall of Fame and Museum -- 50,000 SF NuCLEus -- 250 units ??? 12th & Avenue Apts – 35 units Flats East Bank Phase 3 / Kenect Cleveland – 325 units Former Huntington building -- 850 units 75 Public Square -- 125 units 55 Public Square – 150 units & Offices And these are JUST the projects either recently completed and or New Projects just in Ohio City, Tremont, and Downtown... Build Baby Build!! This is an exciting list. Another exciting project in Ohio City by Franklin Circle is the Rock Climbing Gym in the old Masonic temple. New slanted glass roof has already been added. Check it out if you haven't seen it.
May 8, 20214 yr Love this video. Yes, slightly biased because I took it 😜 enjoy ladies and gentleman IMG_5052.MP4
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