And just imagine that spectacular view of downtown with the SW HQ Tower added in! 

On 2/17/2022 at 11:51 AM, mrnyc said:

 

 

haha good deal and very cool -- yeah i would tend to want to stay put with that.

 

for a bit of comparison, we just bought a place in staten island 1100sqft that sounds like your size of apt and in an early 2000s era building -- in all total costs we are paying a little less than double your costs per month. so this is basically the high end of intro money, but its owning. i know owning is obviously off topic in a rents discussion, but anyway its basically the same $ as we paid until now renting in the west village in manhattan.

 

 

 

 

Staten Island?  I'ma pray for you.

On 3/12/2022 at 7:00 PM, MyTwoSense said:

 

 

Staten Island?  I'ma pray for you.

 

 

please do -- it's a palace in the shaolin 'hood  😂

 

 

 

Remember how site plans showed Gehring St. redirected to intersect 25th at more of a right angle?  Does anyone know if that is going to be done as part of Phase I, or has that been tabled for now?

Took a tour of a few units yesterday and have to say - the smell of exposed timber was incredible. It will do WONDERS for resident mental health and wellness! 

 

The only comparable experience that comes to mind is renting a cabin in the middle of the woods. Makes you wish all buildings were done this way.

Edited March 16, 20223 yr by ASP1984

On 3/14/2022 at 2:28 PM, Dino said:

Remember how site plans showed Gehring St. redirected to intersect 25th at more of a right angle?  Does anyone know if that is going to be done as part of Phase I, or has that been tabled for now?

From what I understand to allow enough land for a second Apartment Tower and a parking garage that will be required.  Perhaps they can connect into the small private road that they will build as part of the Phase One just south of the First Tower.

Add five or six more stories onto this early rendering of phase two of Harbor Bay Real Estate Advisors’ Market Square development, sources are saying. 

 

Next Ohio City high-rise in the works
By Ken Prendergast / March 21, 2022

 

Successful leasing of apartments at the INTRO mixed-use project is reportedly encouraging its developer to pursue a 15- to 16-story high-rise as its next phase of the Market Square development, across the street from the West Side Market. INTRO and its high-rise follow-on phase are part of the Market Square development led by Harbor Bay Real Estate Advisors LLC, based in the Chicago suburb of Northbrook.

 

MORE

https://neo-trans.blog/2022/03/21/next-ohio-city-high-rise-in-the-works/

This is fantastic news!  The lines of Ohio City and Downtown are really going to start to blur (even more) in the next few years.  

Awesome to hear that the leasing results at Intro have been so hot!  Add in a 15 story Intro 2 and you’ve got a very impressive block extending to the West Side Market and anchoring Ohio City. 
 

And I’m certain that other investors watching the market in Ohio City are going to be taking note - we may see even more new projects developing in the area in the near future as the area continues to have big momentum. 
 

Can’t wait to see the official rendering  for an Intro 2! 

I don’t see what they would propose that would be TMUD worthy but perhaps I’m just not thinking big enough.

Based on unit availability on their website:

There are 84 studios, 43 one-bedroom units, and 2 two-bedroom units still available for leasing. That means they have leased 55.1% of their 287 units (not counting the 10 penthouses). It also seems to mean that they definitely underestimated demand for 2+ bedroom units and overestimated demand for studios. I imagine we'll see that corrected in the upcoming second phase.

Just now, tykaps said:

Based on unit availability on their website:

There are 84 studios, 43 one-bedroom units, and 2 two-bedroom units still available for leasing. That means they have leased 55.1% of their 287 units (not counting the 10 penthouses). It also seems to mean that they definitely underestimated demand for 2+ bedroom units and overestimated demand for studios. I imagine we'll see that corrected in the upcoming second phase.

 

I didn't realize their site had been updated. I will add that. Thanks @tykaps!

Based on unit availability on their website:
There are 84 studios, 43 one-bedroom units, and 2 two-bedroom units still available for leasing. That means they have leased 55.1% of their 287 units (not counting the 10 penthouses). It also seems to mean that they definitely underestimated demand for 2+ bedroom units and overestimated demand for studios. I imagine we'll see that corrected in the upcoming second phase.

Could also be a sign of the times, with a lot of people working from home paying for a second room is becoming more reasonable given the cost being saved on commuting and maybe even parking


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I saw excavators doing work on that site today, and there was some sort of framing down. I assume that they could be laying a parking lot for the time being? 

Great news for the West Side Market. Buddha say everything connected.

1 hour ago, cadmen said:

Great news for the West Side Market. Buddha say everything connected.

 

This is my favorite thing about this development. More density in the immediate vicinity means more incentive for vendors in the market. Hopefully leads to a long lasting WSM for years to come!

Do we know if this will be timber frame also?   

No, but I expect to talk with Whalen again this week and will ask him. 

Seems like it will be wood framed based on the images used for the second building. Although the new building is several floors higher so maybe that picture is no longer valid. Maybe they decide to go with a different look entirely. I hope not because one of the things l like about the development is the look of the first building. 

7 minutes ago, cadmen said:

Seems like it will be wood framed based on the images used for the second building. Although the new building is several floors higher so maybe that picture is no longer valid. Maybe they decide to go with a different look entirely. I hope not because one of the things l like about the development is the look of the first building. 

 

Yeah, don't rely on the image I posted for phase two. I used that image in the absence of anything else. Although the phase two might make a nice future massing exercise for @Geowizical's talents someday. 😉

as long as they make phase two taller than the new milwaukee woody ok!   😂👍

We’d need a zoning height limit adjustment to best the 25 story Ascent in Milwaukee - which I’m fine with supporting! 

^ GRANTED !!!

 

😆

I remember KJP telling Mr Whalen how much we all loved the orange cladding on phase one.  Maybe he'll consider an orange shade for phase two......a nice Cleveland Browns theme.

20 hours ago, KJP said:

 

Yeah, don't rely on the image I posted for phase two. I used that image in the absence of anything else. Although the phase two might make a nice future massing exercise for @Geowizical's talents someday. 😉

 

I've got a question @KJP - I'm obviously thrilled to hear about Phase 2, but I'm confused as to why the developers would think they need to increase height.

 

As we alluded to yesterday, the overall lease rate in Phase 1 isn't stellar, particularly for the smaller units. Why would Phase 2 increase overall volume - even if it turns out to be office/commercial primarily, while there may be an occupancy issue with a portion of Phase 1? 

 

Again, I'm thrilled about the news, just surprised. The project overall has been stellar in just about every respect. 

55 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

the overall lease rate in Phase 1 isn't stellar, particularly for the smaller units.

 

having over 50% leased before the building even opens is stellar actually so it's not a surprise that they are finding out there is more demand than initially realized. I am sure they are also looking at the high occupancy rates for other apartments nearby which also points to high demand for units. Just look how quickly the Quarter and Church+State in Hingetown got gobbled up by renters. 

 

There certainly is rental demand out there I'm glad supply is catching up!

@YABO713 I'd call the lease rate stellar. They're on target to stabilize (reach 90%) the building in less than a year after they started residential leasing. That's outstanding if it happens. It's true that studios aren't leasing as fast as they are downtown while two-bedroom units are leasing much faster than in downtown. It's an interesting dynamic. 

 

Phase two was always going to be taller than phase one. Even when they were considering offices for the second building (which was supposed to be built simultaneously with the first), it was going to be taller. The early renderings showed 10 stories (and the early renderings for phase one showed 6-8 stories), although Harbor Bay reps like Whalen said they would increase the height of the second building if a tenant needed more space. 

 

Thoughts about increasing the second building's height began when offices were no longer considered for it. They almost immediately began considering a height that maxed out the height limit in the zoning code. Harbor Bay believed the new-build apartment market in the heart of Ohio City was so strong and virtually untapped that they could put that many units at top-of-the-market rents and still fill them.

 

The potential land area for phase two is also smaller than it is for phase one. The fact that Harbor Bay paid $2 million to add 1/3 of an acre to its development site roughly simultaneously to the start of leasing for phase one tells you how confident they were about both phases and that they expected to go big (tall, not wide because they can't).

 

There's still lots to learn about phase two.  How many apartments will it have? What will the breakdown of units be (studios/1BR/2BR)? If a TMUD will be part of the financing, will there be an affordable/workforce component to it? How significant will the commercial component be and might it include offices? How many parking spaces will be included since there's already 550 spaces in phase one? How will the site plan and Gerhring Avenue's alignment be designed? Will the West Side Market employees lot be incorporated into the development somehow?

My uneducated take on the studio/2 bedroom lease rate.  INTRO is clearly the premiere rental building in Ohio City, even compared to other new builds that have just opened or will be opening.  It has a unique design with the timber framing and floor to ceiling windows which you cannot find (timber framing) or cannot easily find (floor to ceiling windows) elsewhere in town.  It is in a great location, has indoor parking, incredible amenities, good retail already committed and many super views.  Bottom line, it is a slightly more upscale building compared to its competition.  Given the foregoing it is probably attracting a somewhat higher clientele (perhaps, as an example, a young associate at a big law firms who is making more well over $100,000 right out of law school).  This demographic does not have to economize and wants the extra space. The studios don't interest them and they can justify an extra $12,000-$15,0000 in rent given their income.  I guess the question Whalen needs to answer is, is Cleveland a strong market for "high end" studios like New York.  My guess is that renters seeking studios in Cleveland are trying to stretch their dollars and are happy to look at other less expensive buildings.  It could be in the end that many of these studios (not all of course) will eventually rent to higher income people who live in the far suburbs or even other surrounding counties and want a small space in the city for occasional use (pied a terre),

Edited March 23, 20223 yr by Htsguy

Thanks @KJPand @dwolfi01 - you learn something new every day

Between Intro Phase 2, the Voss redevelopment across the street, Duck Island developments, and the Pearl proposed just down the road, this section of town continues to evolve in encouraging directions.

Let’s get those fare machines replaced at the West 25th RTA station and some new trains to match!


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5 hours ago, KJP said:

@YABO713 I'd call the lease rate stellar. They're on target to stabilize (reach 90%) the building in less than a year after they started residential leasing. That's outstanding if it happens. It's true that studios aren't leasing as fast as they are downtown while two-bedroom units are leasing much faster than in dohttps://forum.urbanohio.com/profile/2535-yabo713/wntown. It's an interesting dynamic. increasing the second building's height began when offices were no longer considered for it.

 

They almost immediately began considering a height that maxed out the height limit in the zoning code. Harbor Bay believed the new-build apartment market in the heart of Ohio City was so strong and virtually untapped that they could put that many units at top-of-the-market rents and still fill them.

 

 

It would be fun to know if Harbor Bay found that "height" came cheaper with mass timber than with conventional methods.

Edited March 23, 20223 yr by Dougal

10 hours ago, YABO713 said:

Thanks @KJPand @dwolfi01 - you learn something new every day

 

Yes. It's why I enjoy doing what I do. And getting the opportunity to share it makes it even better.

Far away shot but figured I'd drop this pic in here because it's an uncommon angle. Can't wait to watch phase 2 go up!

 

^I see a few cranes at work in that shot.  It's also nice to see the new Irish Bend Park is starting to be cleared as evidenced by all the downed trees.

 

 

Edited April 2, 20223 yr by Agreene
Create space

That's beautiful

first time seeing a good shot of the courtyard. They are way further along than I thought on it. Looks good!

Sick views indeed.

A couple related thoughts based on @Agreene’s shots- 

The strategic importance of Ohio City as it relates to downtown couldn’t be more obvious.  As downtown booms - places like Ohio City are beneficiaries and in turn, are helping bring new vitality to the city center. 
 

Second, just enjoying in that Intro view how the skyline is cohesive all the way down to CSU - mostly thanks to The Lumen (come on Lumen 2!) 

Att signage at Intro

 

Another sexy CLE pic from Glenn Petranek! 

 

https://photoeye.zenfolio.com/pixel-mania

 

Now here's a straightforward building with excellent texture and street presence. It looks efficient, inviting and great for the neighborhood all at once - up close and from a distance too. Local architects and planners up the street at 25th & Detroit Ave would do well to follow this example of great urban design being set for Cleveland with INTRO.

Edited April 14, 20223 yr by ExPatClevGuy

That AT&T signage is pretty weak/auto-centric. Hopefully blade signage is soon to follow.

Ok, here's my only conplaint. These drains are just like the ones at the perpetual wet spot on e4th. Why do builders continue to use them if they clog so easily? FWIW it had let up raining an hour before. 

Edited April 15, 20223 yr by originaljbw

8 hours ago, originaljbw said:

Ok, here's my only conplaint. These drains are just like the ones at the perpetual wet spot on e4th. Why do builders continue to use them if they clog so easily? FWIW it had let up raining an hour before. 

This will happen with any drain when zero money and effort is investing into cleaning the outside of the property.  

At the risk of sounding like an old man, this is a huge complaint of mine with all businesses today:  for some reason they don't send their employees outside to clean anymore.  The Starbucks by me is disgusting around the outside of the store.   Trash is all over the lot, landscaping littered with cups/wrappers--and I've NEVER seen a barista outside with a broom and a dustpan.   This used to be commonplace, especially at fast food restaurants and gas stations.   Now you never see them outside.  

12 minutes ago, Cleburger said:

This will happen with any drain when zero money and effort is investing into cleaning the outside of the property.  

At the risk of sounding like an old man, this is a huge complaint of mine with all businesses today:  for some reason they don't send their employees outside to clean anymore.  The Starbucks by me is disgusting around the outside of the store.   Trash is all over the lot, landscaping littered with cups/wrappers--and I've NEVER seen a barista outside with a broom and a dustpan.   This used to be commonplace, especially at fast food restaurants and gas stations.   Now you never see them outside.  

Exactly, everything needs some level of maintenance, even if it's just, as in this case, blowing out the drains with a leaf blower.

 

Blaming the builders, (Really the architects & engineers specifying these drain products), is somewhat misplaced. 

The urban design features of the courtyard/streetscape seem very well designed and executed. The space feels like something I haven't seen in Cleveland yet. (5-30-22)

 

 

 

 

 

 

Work on the Gehring/Abbey intersection

 

Gehring at West 25th/Chatham

 

 

^ Mirrored glass at street level? 

 

I was never a fan, and you really don't see this anymore. Reminds me of the former Eaton building. 

Thanks for all the pics. The street scape on Lorain, with the surface level planters and trees is what you see all over Chicago, both downtown and in the neighborhoods and it looks great if properly maintained. I could never understand why we don’t have more of this look in Cleveland instead of trees stuck into bulky planters. 

Aren't these developers from Chicago by way of Cleveland? Maybe they learned something from doing projects there. I hate to say it after all of the construction in town lately but while we are very happy with the growth some of it really is second class in design. We need to raise the bar a little and that doesn't always mean a huge increase in cost. Intro is probably one of the best if not the best example of what can be done if the developer doesn't settle. 

 

Sometimes not being from here is an asset.