I can't understand why this project is 5-10 years away from construction even starting.  Why?  We spend so much time talking and planning and then, once the time passes, some quiet snag has been hit and everybody forgets about the project.  It's at least been 5 to 10 years that Shaker began planning for this, if not more.  I don't get it... The Sussex Courts condos, which were supposed to be an upscale, high-density transit/retail oriented adjunct to the Warrensville/Van Aken project has been completed for over 2 years.

 

... Anyway, I like the idea of extending the rapid through to the UH complex.  I wish money could be found for a rail underpass because, despite the traffic calming aspect of this project, this will still be a very busy traffic intersection.  This expansion could finally set the stage for eventual Blue Line expansion all the way to Chagrin Highlands.  But the article mentions the scariest Cleveland words for even the short UH rapid expansion: "at some future time."

 

In Cleveland parlance, that is often a code term for "never."

 

 

thanks for the graphic kjp. very helpful.

 

stark just has to keep pushing and pushing. as always, good luck to him.

 

i think the best and most overlooked sight for a TOD would be the space between the red, blue and green lines where they pass E 79th street. there are three avenues that are basically empty with train stations at the north and south end  of E 79th. you could get to the two major employment centers in the city, as well as shaker square and the airport, in minutes.  and whats even more interesting is that its basically an empty slate. and it could easily accommodate tens of thousands of people with no need for cars. i wish i was a developer.

 

and just for kicks; wouldn't it be great if that bridge (for the green and blue line) that crosses holton ave instead merged onto the pennsylvania railroad's private line (the one thats elevated through most of the east side)? just think of how many stations could be scattered through downtown. oh, my. just like the days when there was a passenger station for the pennsylvania at 55th and euclid.

 

and i apologize if anyone has suggested similar ideas.

cyclovert that sounds like an amazing opportunity for TOD. and to the KJP info, the planning lady says 10 years is quick? LOL so the fact that she says that makes it so, I see!

 

Was at Earthfest Day with the All Aboard Ohio group at their booth today; I found it fascinating that there were a few cynical people but no one who felt public transportation improovements nor high speed rail were a bad idea. Many brought up the topic of TOD or just plain improved rail from Shaker (well I won't exxagerate it was three people who talked to me about the Shaker line additions lol).  But seriously, why on earth do we have to wait 10 years?

 

 

jamiec, I walk to the Triskett station but when I lived in Lakewood I tried to do the circulator bus and I agree -- it makes NO sense that it doesn't drop you off on the Cleveland side. We are supposed to be thinking regionally and yet we can't even get a circulator bus on the Cleveland side of the street?

 

As for the RTA station, I may be in the minority, but I actually like the new look. Does that make me a plebian? :-)

 

And as for a definition of TOD how hard can THAT be? Housing and businesses within walking distance to a transit line. If we could get all the RTA stops to 'hop' like the W. 25th street station...properties within a 1/4 mile of that place are hot sellers.....then that might set the example we need to get more lines installed.

 

I think there needs to be an Urban Ohio ticket in the next election.  We'd get someplace then. Anyone wanna run for County Commish :-)

i think the best and most overlooked sight for a TOD would be the space between the red, blue and green lines where they pass E 79th street. there are three avenues that are basically empty with train stations at the north and south end  of E 79th. you could get to the two major employment centers in the city, as well as shaker square and the airport, in minutes.  and whats even more interesting is that its basically an empty slate. and it could easily accommodate tens of thousands of people with no need for cars. i wish i was a developer.

 

Welcome aboard, cyclovert! Here's a graphic I came up with for that area, but it assumed the Blue/Green lines would be rerouted via the median of the Opportunity Corridor Boulevard (along with the Red Line)....

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,2267.msg76078.html#msg76078

 

But you're right. You don't need a major rail line realignment to build a kick-ass TOD in this area.

 

and just for kicks; wouldn't it be great if that bridge (for the green and blue line) that crosses holton ave instead merged onto the pennsylvania railroad's private line (the one thats elevated through most of the east side)? just think of how many stations could be scattered through downtown. oh, my. just like the days when there was a passenger station for the pennsylvania at 55th and euclid.

 

and i apologize if anyone has suggested similar ideas.

 

No need to apologize. It's the proposed route for NEOrail commuter trains to Solon/Aurora and to Macedonia/Hudson/Akron/Canton. And back in the day (1950s and 60s), there was a proposal run a heavy-rail Rapid south from Euclid Avenue along the former Pennsylvania RR (assumed putting a Rapid down Euclid!). The Rapid would have run along the PRR to near Union Avenue where it would shift over to parallel the Erie RR to North Randall. Dicsussions got pretty serious at one point to involve financing, but the landscape is proof that things didn't get much farther than talking.

 

But I see what you're saying. A rail loop could be created using the Blue/Green/Waterfront lines and the old PRR -- now a very busy Norfolk Southern freight route (about 90 trains daily). It's true that this mostly elevated railroad right of way is four tracks wide but has only two active mainline freight tracks along it. It would seem logical that two light-rail transit tracks could be plopped down next to the freight tracks.

 

But recently enacted railroad labor work rules require a separation (I think 25 feet -- but double-check that!) between active freight tracks and transit tracks. Unless a waiver could be had from NS or the FRA, a single-track transit line with an occasional passing siding may be all that could be accommodated without widening the elevated railroad right of way. Single-track may not be impractical, but it's less than ideal for a light-rail line that has 12-minute headways during rush hours. But Baltimore operated with single-track for years on the north end of its LRT. I just don't see RTA, with GM Joe at the helm, being all that interested in adding any new rail lines.

I just don't see RTA, with GM Joe at the helm, being all that interested in adding any new rail lines.  -- KJP

 

Amen to that!

 

 

I was at a conference downtown recently where I met a visitor from Detroit who had a lot of positive things to say about Cleveland.  I haven't been to downtown Detroit, but apparently downtown Cleveland is a huge improvement.

 

Despite his good impressions of downtown, he was very critical of the rapid ride in from the airport.  He said that the directions from the terminal to the airport rapid station weren't very clear, and he didn't feel very safe on the ride in.  He complained about the appearance of many of the stations, the graffiti he passed along the way, and the lack of any liveliness around the stations.  So he wasn't likely to recommend the RTA from the airport and wasn't likely to take it again himself.

 

Safe or dirty or not -- those were his impressions.

 

If we Clevelanders want to make a good impression on our out-of-town guests, we really need to continue to make some improvements along the rapid line to the airport.  And one piece of that will be to continue to pursue TOD opportunities at every station between the airport and Tower City.  It really is important that the city and the region and RTA work together to make sure we make a good first impression to visitors coming into the city.  We're not there yet, but I hope we keep working on it.

 

A document was posted on the site yesterday that many of you may find to be a good read (and it could stimulate some conversation) -- the Master Plan for the E 120 Rapid Station redevelopment, as prepared for RTA by Project for Public Spaces, Inc. et al.

 

It's a large (nearly 16MB, 150 pages) PDF file, and can be found here: http://www.riderta.com/majorprojects/e120/GCRTA%20Little%20Italy%20E120th%20Station%20Master%20Plan.pdf

CH Jake, best to post that feedback at the RTA thread:

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,14015.0.html

Despite his good impressions of downtown, he was very critical of the rapid ride in from the airport.  He said that the directions from the terminal to the airport rapid station weren't very clear, and he didn't feel very safe on the ride in.  He complained about the appearance of many of the stations, the graffiti he passed along the way, and the lack of any liveliness around the stations.  So he wasn't likely to recommend the RTA from the airport and wasn't likely to take it again himself.

 

Safe or dirty or not -- those were his impressions.

 

If we Clevelanders want to make a good impression on our out-of-town guests, we really need to continue to make some improvements along the rapid line to the airport.  And one piece of that will be to continue to pursue TOD opportunities at every station between the airport and Tower City.  It really is important that the city and the region and RTA work together to make sure we make a good first impression to visitors coming into the city.  We're not there yet, but I hope we keep working on it.

 

 

I'm a little confused and I need some clarity.  Everyone's "experience" or "point of view" is different, but I wonder if you could give more detail or did you ask more questions.  What was your response to this?

 

Jerry, is the "airport signage" an AIRPORT issue or an RTA issue??  Many of us have commented on that "language" used in the terminals.  It needs to be changed.  How do we help RTA accomplish that?  Other than the "language" how was were the directions unclear?  :?

 

I'd also like to understand what this person level of "safe" is.  Is it safe as, "I really didn't know where I was going, so I better stay alert?"  I normally driver, so I'm not accustomed to taking public transportation or I see people of all different races, ethnic background, etc and I'm uncomfortable?

 

Lastly, how can a person on the train tell what the entire area (I'll use a five block radius) near the stations is like.  The above ground stations are all surrounding by parking lots.  Yes the trench the train runs in could be cleaned up and graffiti removed.  However, the majority of systems across the country (BOS, NJ, Philly, NYC, Chi, etc.) are in a cut and have much worse graffiti and trash in between stations than Cleveland.  (this is why I asked if the person took public transportation regularly)

 

I'm not trying to be an Cleveland apologist, as the riders points should not be overlooked, but at the same time, is the riders expectation(s) realistic?

^not sure if this is surprising or not, but RTA does contract with an organization to clean up the trench areas of the tracks during the summers. It is amazing how much trash is removed. I can only imagine how things would look if the trash removal were not performed.

Guys -- this is a TOD thread. Take this to the RTA thread where it can get more visibility from RTA staff, many of whom deal in operations and have no idea what a TOD is.

I think this is a TOD topic for discussion.  Let me clarify -- I propose that even if my Detroit visitor's view was unrealistic, if we're going to advance TOD, we ought to start around the stations between TC and the airport because that will have the most impact on visitors to our fair city. 

 

No matter the current conditions, increasing TOD at those stations would bring improvements to a visitor's experiences.  (or will it not?)  Having only rarely taken that line, my knowledge base is pretty thin.  So tell me why my proposal is faulty and convince me that we ought to pursue TOD elsewhere.  I'm willing to learn.

^I don't think pursuing TOD anywhere along the rapid lines is faulty.  But RTA has tried and come up empty so far for at least one of the big surface lots on the west side- so it's unclear the market is really there at the moment.

I think this is a TOD topic for discussion.  Let me clarify -- I propose that even if my Detroit visitor's view was unrealistic, if we're going to advance TOD, we ought to start around the stations between TC and the airport because that will have the most impact on visitors to our fair city. 

 

No matter the current conditions, increasing TOD at those stations would bring improvements to a visitor's experiences.  (or will it not?)  Having only rarely taken that line, my knowledge base is pretty thin.  So tell me why my proposal is faulty and convince me that we ought to pursue TOD elsewhere.  I'm willing to learn.

 

Stations that should get TOD or where it should be concentrated IMO are:

 

E. 120

Superior

Windermer

Shaker Square

University Circle

East 116

Woodhill

West 25

West 98

West 65

 

The above stations are already located in areas where there is a walkable neighborhood within a five block radius of the station, univ. circle not included. The current station improvements coupled with new projects going up will help. 

 

the Redline far west stations are "park and ride" stations where you drive to the station and I think those stations are quite nice , safe, well lit and function well as is.  When I'm on the way to the airport in the mornings, the eastbound platform is packed, with people going downtown, something must be going right.  Triskett & West Park are in neighborhood and look really nice, so again, I don't know what that person from Detroit was looking at or if he/she meant one station or what was between stations. 

 

I do understand you rarely ride the train, and appreciate you saying that you have little experience, but my experience is the trains are packed and safe.  When I transfer from the green/blue to the red line, it's like a wave of people coming at you.

 

on the green blue lines, people are standing and the drive has to tell folks to wait for the next train at E 166 or woodhill.  It brings back memories of the old cars and how I felt like a sardine.

i would love it if someone here could share with me the CPT's original plans for the rapid system before they were whittled down to a single, east-west route (the 'red' line).  i have a hypothesis that they would have retained most of the major streetcar routes. maybe like the streetcar-gone-subway in boston?...

 

am i warm?

^^uhh. I know Shaker Square ain't perfect, but it pretty much is the best example of TOD (old School) in all of Cleveland. What do you want to do, bulldoze the square and build again? bulldoze your building?

^^uhh. I know Shaker Square ain't perfect, but it pretty much is the best example of TOD (old School) in all of Cleveland. What do you want to do, bulldoze the square and build again? bulldoze your building?

 

Pope....are you drinking brown liquor again?? Bulldoze my favorite urbanohio subject?   [glow=red,2,300]SHAKER SQUARE[/glow]  Neva!  However, there are still some missing pieces and we could work to make the area's west of the square more integrated. 

 

East 116 is being remade and the new university circle area and adjoining station are being addressed, this "triangle" could be an amazing set of continuous neighborhoods and transportation options.

 

I think the duplicating 12/13 service should be eliminated.

^^uhh. I know Shaker Square ain't perfect, but it pretty much is the best example of TOD (old School) in all of Cleveland. What do you want to do, bulldoze the square and build again? bulldoze your building?

 

Pope....are you drinking brown liquor again?? Bulldoze my favorite urbanohio subject?  [glow=red,2,300]SHAKER SQUARE[/glow]  Neva!  However, there are still some missing pieces and we could work to make the area's west of the square more integrated. 

 

East 116 is being remade and the new university circle area and adjoining station are being addressed, this "triangle" could be an amazing set of continuous neighborhoods and transportation options.

 

I think the duplicating 12/13 service should be eliminated.

 

First, brown liquor before labour day?

 

Second, I'm just saying if there's a station that should be improved via TOD, skip shaker, he's fine and dandy on his own.

First, brown liquor before labour day?

 

Second, I'm just saying if there's a station that should be improved via TOD, skip shaker, he's fine and dandy on his own.

 

Agreed.  The first fou redline stations going east from TC should addressed first!

First, brown liquor before labour day?

 

Second, I'm just saying if there's a station that should be improved via TOD, skip shaker, he's fine and dandy on his own.

 

Agreed.  The first fou redline stations going east from TC should addressed first!

 

If TOD housing units would sell, they would sell most quickly at W.25th, Cedar Hill and Mayfield (new station). In a city with economic challenges, we need to build off of our strengths. These stations are where I would concentrate my efforts. I think we would have a very hard time concincing people to buy TOD housing units at E. 33rd, E. 55th, E. 79th and E. 105.  If TOD succeeds at W.25 et al, the other station areas would be an easier sell. 

I do understand you rarely ride the train, and appreciate you saying that you have little experience, but my experience is the trains are packed and safe.   When I transfer from the green/blue to the red line, it's like a wave of people coming at you.

 

on the green blue lines, people are standing and the drive has to tell folks to wait for the next train at E 166 or woodhill.  It brings back memories of the old cars and how I felt like a sardine.

 

I've noticed that in the past week, the trains are pretty full, even during off hours. And this evening at about 8:30 p.m., I was heading under the Highland Station on West 117th and the platform probably had a dozen people on it. Usually there's maybe a couple of people waiting on the platform that time of night.

 

i would love it if someone here could share with me the CPT's original plans for the rapid system before they were whittled down to a single, east-west route (the 'red' line).  i have a hypothesis that they would have retained most of the major streetcar routes. maybe like the streetcar-gone-subway in boston?...

 

am i warm?

 

Check out my thread on Cleveland's subway story, at:

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,2726.0.html

 

If TOD housing units would sell, they would sell most quickly at W.25th, Cedar Hill and Mayfield (new station). In a city with economic challenges, we need to build off of our strengths. These stations are where I would concentrate my efforts. I think we would have a very hard time concincing people to buy TOD housing units at E. 33rd, E. 55th, E. 79th and E. 105.  If TOD succeeds at W.25 et al, the other station areas would be an easier sell. 

 

I also think West 25th is a great place to start with a decent TOD, and the CDC is pretty supportive of this. Planning is already under way (with ParkWorks' involvement). I'm just concerned that the reactionaries at Duck Island (cough Rosemary Vinci cough) will shit-can this too.

 

And the Brookpark Station redevelopment isn't dead. An RTA staffer assured me of this earlier today. But the new station will probably come first. It's a major station project, costing about $12 million.

 

I think Triskett and West Park have great potential for TOD, and so did Highland/West 117th until Lakewood blew it with their sprawl-like bank, grocery and car wash nearby. Such an uninspired and inappropriate land use design for its setting....sigh.

 

East 79th offers an opportunity to build a whole new city neighborhood from scratch. But that's a tall order giving the current lending situation. We need more jobs in this town, but East 79th's proximity to University Circle's growth areas might help this area someday.

It's in the art of the sell.  The "SELLER" needs to be on point with RTA, the city, the community and the real estate community.  You have to improvise on the fly and make it work!

 

• There are some nice areas in the Quincy area and Karamu to build upon.  The Clinic is three blocks away.
  
• Why not work to improve the quality of life situations in between the 79 street stations, use existing infrastructure.
  
• 55 street should be improved, work it back into the neighborhood and connect it to the pockets that are already growing and slavic village.
  

 

3231, This isn't aimed at you, but are (we Clevelanders) so conditioned to first say, "this isn't going to work because of ....." instead of saying, "we're taking the bull by the horns and neutralizing the negative and doing x, y, z to improve X area!"?

 

We've got to start somewhere and starting now to improve the area around E. 105 street would be smart as the residential being built/planned for northern univ. circle will not be appealing or affordable to working class folks who currently reside in Fairfax.  Putting a drug store, card shop, bank, hardware store, shoe store, video store, barber shop, dry cleaner, a few restaurants and redevelop those huge factories into residencies on Quincy between the station and Karamu could help kick start that area.  

 

To me, helping a perceived bad neighborhood and turning it around says alot more above the cities current rebound and the how resilient Clevelands neighborhoods are.  That in it self would say to others, "hey, if they can fix up the area adjacent/around the Quincy station why can't we do this around 65 Street station?"

And as I've often said, how can we sell the economic redevelopment abilities of transit (especially rail transit) to other communities in Northeast Ohio when our close-to-home model is littered (yep, pun intended) with so many bad examples of station-area spin-off potential. Used car lots? Abandoned industries? Car washes? Boarded-up buildings? Vacant land?

 

People complain that the Rapid doesn't take you to enough places. Then bring enough places to the Rapid. Let the momentum follow.

KJP if the City of Cleveland took the bull by the horns and said only tax abatements to TOD development for next five years, there would be a difference in where it ocurred. We have a lot of build out now in non-green areas, we need some carrot and stick incentive.

 

Mytwosense you make a lot of sense!

And you make a lot of sense, too, carolecohen. I like that idea.

KJP if the City of Cleveland took the bull by the horns and said only tax abatements to TOD development for next five years, there would be a difference in where it ocurred. We have a lot of build out now in non-green areas, we need some carrot and stick incentive.

 

Mytwosense you make a lot of sense!

 

I agree with your position on tax abatements. I think their rampant misuse in pursuit of development at any cost is what has led to some of the mess we're in today, both locally and at the state and national levels.

 

Don't get me wrong, tax incentives absolutely have their place, but doling them out like candy at Halloween cheapens their effective value and makes people come to expect them and factor them into the cost of doing business, rather than treating them as a true incentive.

KJP if the City of Cleveland took the bull by the horns and said only tax abatements to TOD development for next five years, there would be a difference in where it ocurred. We have a lot of build out now in non-green areas, we need some carrot and stick incentive.

 

Mytwosense you make a lot of sense!

 

I agree with your position on tax abatements. I think their rampant misuse in pursuit of development at any cost is what has led to some of the mess we're in today, both locally and at the state and national levels.

 

Don't get me wrong, tax incentives absolutely have their place, but doling them out like candy at Halloween cheapens their effective value and makes people come to expect them and factor them into the cost of doing business, rather than treating them as a true incentive.

 

Please cite an example where Cleveland has "over done it"?

^Find anyone who is listing a home without tax abatement - ask them how they feel about competing with 15-year tax abated new construction a block away. Find anyone who is trying to sell a property that has its tax abatement coming to an end and ask them how they feel about competing with tax abated new construction. Sure, it's resulted in some actual physical development which is a good thing but it's artificially propping up the market.

^Find anyone who is listing a home without tax abatement - ask them how they feel about competing with 15-year tax abated new construction a block away. Find anyone who is trying to sell a property that has its tax abatement coming to an end and ask them how they feel about competing with tax abated new construction. Sure, it's resulted in some actual physical development which is a good thing but it's artificially propping up the market.

 

New home construction vs. resale is always an issue unless its "historic" homes, which in most cities is preferred.

 

The other points I can't speak on.  However, just as an observer, I don't think we've overbuilt or abused here in Cleveland.

 

Besides, those new generic boring homes suck!  :-P  PreWar homes rule!

Tax abatements DO have their place but they should be the right kind of incentive not the same old same old. We have more existing housing than we have people....we need better incentives for people to buy an existing home. It's not about whether there are too many new construction projects in general. it's about how do we preserve what we have and encourage bldg. where it can best benefit the Cleve economy. At least that's my opinion. People have the right to live where they want and in what type of dwelling, but that doesn't mean the City has to reward everyone's choices. A good Master Plan can't hurt.

 

 

And the Brookpark Station redevelopment isn't dead. An RTA staffer assured me of this earlier today.

 

Wow, that's great news.

 

I think all of our armchair planning for the underused land along the East Side rapid lines is great, but I think that's the easy part.  3231 is right, IMHO, there really is no market for new unsubsidized housing in much of the city, let alone some of the bleakest parts of it.  Probably not even much of a market for non-project based subsidized housing either as Section 8 recipients head for more intact parts of town. 

 

What would make a difference is a voluntary pact by the City, HUD and the non-profit community to steer public/philanthropic funding towards these corridors, but that is politically difficult, because it means steering them away from other parts of town.  So, for instance, all the reconstruction that occurred in Central in recent years could have been built between E79 and E105 (maybe it should have been) by the rapid stops, but that would have left Central barren.

 

In my dream world, the feds would give us $100M to relocate the Blue/Green line through Central (to serve all that new development, Tri C and St. Vincents) and then onto Euclid between E22 and Public Square to share ROW with the BRT.  This would of course add a lot of travel time for suburban riders headed to Tower City, and would mean severing the WFL from Blue/Green line, but I think it would be worth it.  OK, back to reality.

I remember an old statistic, but not the details, something like XX% of sites near the redline are superfund sites...

 

Anyone recall, KJP?

^good point, that sure doesn't help.  The new juvi hall site sure needed a lot of clean-up.

I remember an old statistic, but not the details, something like XX% of sites near the redline are superfund sites...

 

Anyone recall, KJP?

 

I don't know percentages, but there are 49 EPA Superfund sites between East 55th and University Circle along the Red Line.

_______

 

Here is something I wrote about this a while ago here on UO.......

 

The lack of state and federal funding to clean up these sites is hampering the area's redevelopment. Construction of the [Opportunity Corridor Boulevard] would obliterate some of these sites and effectively clean them up in part by removing them, and the rest by providing a funding share from the boulevard project to leverage additional dollars for cleanup. In other words, without the six-lane boulevard project and its associated earthmoving, we lack the funds in this state to remedy some very environmentally troubled properties.

 

There is a sad commentary in this, that Ohio fails to provide the funds to urban areas to allow for their redevelopment unless a road project is involved. In this case, that road is next to a competing rail transit line. The addition of parallel transportation capacity will disperse ridership from the Red Line, for which Greater Clevelanders already have made a substantial investment.

"Superfund sites" is an incredibly misused term, and there are actually relatively few of them nationwide... now, if you want to talk sites on which hazardous waste contamination exists (which are NOT necessarily Superfund sites), yes, I'm sure there are quite a lot, and this site http://www.epa.gov/enviro/html/em/index.html can help you map them by ZIP Code... it's also a pretty decent general environmental GIS

There is a sad commentary in this, that Ohio fails to provide the funds to urban areas to allow for their redevelopment unless a road project is involved.

 

Actually, Ohio has been quite progressive with respect to clean-ups of contaminated urban sites.  Ohio has provided a lot of money through the Clean Ohio funds (with more in the Guv's Building Ohio Jobs bond issue).  Also, the state's Voluntary Action Program (though imperfect) has resulted in the clean-up of many urban sites. 

 

That's not to say that there isn't more that needs to be done, but a lot has been accomplished in Ohio in this area. 

Anyone recall, KJP?

There is a sad commentary in this, that Ohio fails to provide the funds to urban areas to allow for their redevelopment unless a road project is involved. In this case, that road is next to a competing rail transit line. The addition of parallel transportation capacity will disperse ridership from the Red Line, for which Greater Clevelanders already have made a substantial investment.

Not surprising, really.  Ohio's kind of a backwards state, in some ways. 

Well this isn't so cheery.  Anyone familiar with the units think there is something specific about them making them hard to sell or is this just general housing slump blahs?

 

http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/cuyahoga/1209457941148340.xml&coll=2&thispage=2

 

Shaker Hts. offers cash to buyers of condos

$190,000 earmarked to boost Avalon Station Sales lagging for city's Avalon Station project

Tuesday, April 29, 2008

Laura Johnston

Plain Dealer Reporter

 

Shaker Heights- The city will pay people thousands of dollars each to get them to buy homes at the Lofts at Avalon Station - a total outlay of nearly $200,000 to protect the millions it has invested at the revamped Shaker Town Center...

 

 

Not to be a nit picker or step on any toes, but wouldn't it be better to have the Avalon Station information in the Avalon Station thread?

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,9085.0.html

 

this way we're not cross posting

^Fine with me, but that is a photo thread, not a news thread.  Most Avalon Station news is in this thread.

I think it's a combo, straphanger: some of it is 'not enough people' to flesh out every new project what I don't know, but will investigate, is whether or not the troubles Heartland were having affected their ability to 'show' product and maximize interest. I know Jay Lofts never really got off the ground but not as familiar with Avalon Station. I'll ask a manager from our office out that way tomorrow - I still say it's the price point LOL

 

By the way I DO like your fantasy! It sure would be nice....

A year old article on the TOD boom from the WSJ.  I've never seen it before, but feel free to delete if it's already been posted.

 

 

The Little Engine That Could

In many cities, the hottest development is taking place along the train lines

By KEMBA J. DUNHAM

June 11, 2007; Page R3 Wall Street Journal

 

Good article. I'm surprised we missed posting until now! Thanks for catching it Guv.

anyone think there's a chance, pending the success of the ECTP, that we'll ever see the detroit superior bridge reopened to streetcars and not just walking tours?

anyone think there's a chance, pending the success of the ECTP, that we'll ever see the detroit superior bridge reopened to streetcars and not just walking tours?

Your guess would be as good as anyone's here.

I don't see how one would affect the other. If RTA sees that BRT is successful, it will probably want more of it and not any kind of rail. Besides, RTA isn't interested in expanding rail, period.

I always thought W150 and Puritas would be a good place for TOD.  It is near the airport, near National City, is in a part of the city that still has some life, is near travel related business and has industry nearby.  It wouldn't have to be mostly residential right off the bat.  It could be commercial first with residential added around it.

 

W25th/Lorain cries out for TOD (hey how about a tunnel to the market)

 

I also thought W117Madison would attract TOD, but it hasn't.  I am thinking mid rise apartments

 

I wonder if TOD is hard to start but grows exponentially.  To do it, you need to have the transit, the people to ride it, and reasons for them to ride it.  When you start creating opportunites for people to live around and ride transit and for business to locate near these transit hubs and feed off the increased use of that transit, then people could use transit for a wide range of activities and the whole TOD "network/infrastructure" would grow faster and faster.

I'd say there's lots of areas in the city of Cleveland that have "life." I'm not sure what you meant by that comment.

 

West 25th/Lorain was going to get a TOD, but the anti-urbanist reactionaries on Duck Island, led by Cuyahoga County's own Madame LaRue, aka Rosemary Vinci, fought it and killed it.

 

TOD at West 117th/Madison hasn't happened because Lakewood city planners wouldn't know a TOD if it bit them in the ass. Amazing, because they pushed for pedestrian-oriented new construction with the Walgreen's at Detroit/West 117th, plus the drug store and paint store at Madison and Warren roads. Yet they can't understand why a transit-zoning overlay is needed on their side of the street. Cleveland has considered a similar zoning overlay on their side of West 117th, but it hasn't gotten any further than discussions at the Cudell CDC.

 

If you want to see TOD brewing, check out the new Mayfield station, the University Circle station, the Lee Road Blue Line station and, of course, the Main Avenue station in the Flats. Images of all those projects have been posted on this forum.