6 minutes ago, Sapper Daddy said:

Something beyond the Kenect proposal???

 

care to at least tease which bank ?

Yes, east or west? Let us dream tonight @KJP

9 hours ago, KJP said:

 

Yes, stay tuned. ? Since the news of this project is out, I'm pushing to get the OK to publish this story ASAP.

 

 

I'm sure very few Indians fans will be able to afford it.

But ....

41 minutes ago, jeremyck01 said:

 

Will info about the Flats project be revealed in your article about the Geis project?

 

No. Separate article. Still don't have enough to write it, or at least write it well. 

1 hour ago, Sapper Daddy said:

Something beyond the Kenect proposal???

 

care to at least tease which bank ?

BTW:   Whenn is Kennect supposed to break ground?

3 hours ago, Jenny said:

This is designed at a maximum 17 stories on the lot you see being drilled with an adjacent 5-story parking deck to the east of the County garage along Prospect.  

 

I sure hope there is liner retail and apartments condos(!) above along Prospect.  I’m assuming the city would make them do this whether it is in the initial plan or not. 

Edited June 12, 20196 yr by Boomerang_Brian
Condos(!)

22 minutes ago, Boomerang_Brian said:

 

I sure hope there is liner retail and apartments condos(!) above along Prospect.  I’m assuming the city would make them do this whether it is in the initial plan or not. 

 

Cleveland passed a slew of zoning requirements that require liners for parking decks. If I recall correctly, they had to "force" the Lumen project to incorporate the retail along the first floor of their parking deck.

 

Downtown Cleveland zoning tweaks shift height limits, boost potential for historic easements

Quote

Other ordinances being crafted would require liner buildings, filled with offices, retail or other active uses, on new downtown parking garages.

 

Edited June 12, 20196 yr by imjustinjk

12 hours ago, Oldmanladyluck said:

^That lot footprint os small- my guess is its at least 14 stories, probably more.

12 hours ago, GISguy said:

Why only limit ourselves to 14? Lets go whole hog! 100 floors or bust.

 

Being a small lot the only place you can go is up!

Edited June 12, 20196 yr by Mildtraumatic

KJP always has the inside track on developments, lol.

7 hours ago, imjustinjk said:

 

Cleveland passed a slew of zoning requirements that require liners for parking decks. If I recall correctly, they had to "force" the Lumen project to incorporate the retail along the first floor of their parking deck.

 

Downtown Cleveland zoning tweaks shift height limits, boost potential for historic easements

 

 

Yes, the city did have to “force” Lumen to include the retail. And I agree that the newer zoning requirements should require the Geis condo project have retail and liner condos along Prospect. I’m hoping that the city declines any potential variance requests that Geis might make in an attempt to avoid these requirements. For example, the way the current NuCLEus plans don’t have liner apartments on East 4th and Huron. 

11 hours ago, StapHanger said:

 

 Very surprising to see a developer provide such a risky guaranty from out-of-deal assets, but I hope it's true! Great sleuthing work. 

I was under the impression that Fred Geis had sold his interest in the family business to his brother and was on his own and involved with Hemingway Development, no?

3 hours ago, CleCaneFan said:

I was under the impression that Fred Geis had sold his interest in the family business to his brother and was on his own and involved with Hemingway Development, no?

 

Yes, Fred Geis is retiring to travel the world. But there are other members of the Geis family who are taking over his interests and activities. 

Edited June 12, 20196 yr by KJP

Here's a quick and dirty mockup I did on my phone from the Indians game yesterday ?

4 minutes ago, fishface said:

Here's a quick and dirty mockup I did on my phone from the Indians game yesterday ?

You're missing another 60 stories ? seriously though, that'll fill a nice part of that angle from the stadium. If NuCLEus stops dragging it's feet we're bound for a really unique (and growing!) skyline (Lumen, Beacon, Hippodrome, y'all know what I'm saying lol).

 

PS- Imagine how cool one of those field facing hotel rooms will be in the ATT Building (and or a rooftop bar ?)

Although Geis has controlled this site as well as the parking garage in the back for quite some time now, I do not believe it is or ever was a development site for condos. A friend who is well connected to Developers in Cleveland sent me over a rendering he got his hands on for this site and believes Geis is currently pricing... looks like office space to me, which is parallel to what I have heard from him as well...

23 minutes ago, CLEInsider101 said:

Although Geis has controlled this site as well as the parking garage in the back for quite some time now, I do not believe it is or ever was a development site for condos. A friend who is well connected to Developers in Cleveland sent me over a rendering he got his hands on for this site and believes Geis is currently pricing... looks like office space to me, which is parallel to what I have heard from him as well...

 

Wow, I really hope that isn't it, that's a pretty rough design (90s IBM in the burbs anyone?) and would be such a lost opportunity for that lot. 

Edited June 12, 20196 yr by DevolsDance
Spelling

Just now, DevolsDance said:

 

Wow, I really hope that isn't it, that's a pretty rough deign (90s IBM in the burbs anyone?) and would be such a lost opportunity for that lot. 

90s IBM? lol silly.

Plus as i understand it the rendering was tailored to the prospect's design ideas. im working on finding out some more details about this tenant, because im very interested to see who it could be.

"90s IBM in the burbs"

 

Totally.

 

I truly hope its condos in play here. Its sorely needed. 

With the building having a smaller footprint, would-could the substructure be affordable enough to go taller than we've been seeing? 

Edited June 12, 20196 yr by Mildtraumatic

@KJP Look at the madness you have created. Spill the beans already before you break Urban Ohio

@YO to the CLE I thought I was closer time-wise to getting the all-clear to publish my article, but my main source has pulled the reins back on me. I'm sure you can appreciate that. However, I wouldn't have created a new thread had that geotech drilling rig not appeared on Geis' land two days ago. And I had previously reported that condos are planned for this site: http://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2019/04/cleveland-is-rising-up-in-o-zone.html That plan continues. So, I wait....

1 hour ago, KFM44107 said:

Whats with randomly misquoting @CLEinsider101 on this thread @math? That was definitely said by marty on another thread, not on this one. Unless you accidentally posted to this thread.

Must have had two windows open, no idea? I was mostly just annoyed to open a thread I was excited about to find no new information. Which is to say, back to the topic. 

I am probably wrong but I just don't see the market for this yet.  Condo's are different from apartments in that you have to have enough money for a down payment which wipes out a lot of young professionals who are currently apartment dwellers.  Even cheap condos at $200k require a $40k down payment.  Even also assuming the down payment is paid for by parents or whatever, part of the attraction of renting is the freedom to leave after a year or whatever.  Not so with a condo.  So playing these two out, you're back to single middle age professionals and married couples who have no kids.  Who want to live downtown.  Not Ohio City or Detroit Shoreway - downtown.  We'll see

2 hours ago, CLEInsider101 said:

A friend who is well connected to Developers in Cleveland sent me over a rendering he got his hands on for this site ...

 

8 minutes ago, KJP said:

@YO to the CLE I thought I was closer time-wise to getting the all-clear to publish my article, but my main source has pulled the reins back on me. I'm sure you can appreciate that. However, I wouldn't have created a new thread had that geotech drilling rig not appeared on Geis' land two days ago. And I had previously reported that condos are planned for this site: http://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2019/04/cleveland-is-rising-up-in-o-zone.html That plan continues. So, I wait....

Be the first again to break news is all I ask!

 

EDit: Should of kept it quiet until you got it on your blog. Cleveland.com has a lead now.

Edited June 12, 20196 yr by Mildtraumatic

4 minutes ago, Mildtraumatic said:

Be the first again to break news is all I ask!

 

We aims to please! ?

2 hours ago, CLEInsider101 said:

Although Geis has controlled this site as well as the parking garage in the back for quite some time now, I do not believe it is or ever was a development site for condos. A friend who is well connected to Developers in Cleveland sent me over a rendering he got his hands on for this site and believes Geis is currently pricing... looks like office space to me, which is parallel to what I have heard from him as well...

 

There is no way that anything like this is what is going to happen.  And yes, it does look like 90's burbs IBM.

34 minutes ago, jeremyck01 said:

 

There is no way that anything like this is what is going to happen.  And yes, it does look like 90's burbs IBM.

I will be pissed if that Rockside Road looking glass blob is what ends up blocking my view of Progressive Field!!

57 minutes ago, gottaplan said:

I am probably wrong but I just don't see the market for this yet.  Condo's are different from apartments in that you have to have enough money for a down payment which wipes out a lot of young professionals who are currently apartment dwellers.  Even cheap condos at $200k require a $40k down payment.  Even also assuming the down payment is paid for by parents or whatever, part of the attraction of renting is the freedom to leave after a year or whatever.  Not so with a condo.  So playing these two out, you're back to single middle age professionals and married couples who have no kids.  Who want to live downtown.  Not Ohio City or Detroit Shoreway - downtown.  We'll see

I think a lot of people on here discount the number of those wealthy enough to live where they want and send their kids to private school, which makes all of the above a non-factor. Its not nearly as large a group as the other groups you named, but if there were more condo options downtown that group would be more size able than you think. 

^^^and you're forgetting the biggest group moving downtown right now....Empty nesters.  Kids are at college or have moved.  Want to be downtown but don't want to rent.  Its a large group

40 minutes ago, jeremyck01 said:

 

There is no way that anything like this is what is going to happen.  And yes, it does look like 90's burbs IBM.

Looks more like a CCA expansion building. Perfect spot for one, from their perspective. 

6 minutes ago, mack34 said:

I will be pissed if that Rockside Road looking glass blob is what ends up blocking my view of Progressive Field!!

That building looks like some mothballed low budget County Building annex that never materialized. If that is Cleveland’s timid entry into the condo market I’d be surprised. In the current market I’d rather have a vacant lot.

On 6/11/2019 at 10:02 AM, mack34 said:

NOOOOO! I now have to go full NIMBY!!! That’s going to block my dream view!!! (I type this will full sarcasm.... kinda?

with a view like that, and twice as close, you wont need season tickets ever again! 

On 6/11/2019 at 10:02 AM, mack34 said:

NOOOOO! I now have to go full NIMBY!!! That’s going to block my dream view!!! (I type this will full sarcasm.... kinda?

with a view like that, and twice as close, you wont need season tickets ever again! 

On 6/11/2019 at 10:06 AM, imjustinjk said:

The development potential in this area is great. There’s so many parking lots. E. 9th-E 18th south of Prospect, like the Parking Lot District, has a ton of potential. Hopefully, along with Knez’s townhouses, can spur more for-sale developments. 

Clearly this area is the new entertainment "hot spot" that has playhouse square potential written all over it. I would expect more millennials living here who generally prefer sports and the bar scene versus aging baby boomers whom I'm guessing would be more inclined  for theater combined with fine restaurants. In any case both are flocking to downtown for the lifestyle it provides. 

26 minutes ago, shack said:

with a view like that, and twice as close, you wont need season tickets ever again! 

I was just wondering why I’ve never tailgated on top of that parking garage. 

2 hours ago, gottaplan said:

I am probably wrong but I just don't see the market for this yet.  Condo's are different from apartments in that you have to have enough money for a down payment which wipes out a lot of young professionals who are currently apartment dwellers.  Even cheap condos at $200k require a $40k down payment.  Even also assuming the down payment is paid for by parents or whatever, part of the attraction of renting is the freedom to leave after a year or whatever.  Not so with a condo.  So playing these two out, you're back to single middle age professionals and married couples who have no kids.  Who want to live downtown.  Not Ohio City or Detroit Shoreway - downtown.  We'll see

I am pretty sure @Pugu adamantly disagrees with you and is going to challenge you to a manly arm wrestling match. ?

1 hour ago, shack said:

Clearly this area is the new entertainment "hot spot" that has playhouse square potential written all over it. I would expect more millennials living here who generally prefer sports and the bar scene versus aging baby boomers whom I'm guessing would be more inclined  for theater combined with fine restaurants. In any case both are flocking to downtown for the lifestyle it provides. 

 

You'd be surprised. My dad is a boomer. He and many want to be in the throw of things. Between Playhouse Square, E. 4th, the stadiums, etc,. its a very attractive area for people of all ages. Boomers like sports and bars too, haha. My dad goes out just as much as I do, and is a member of Playhouse, museums, etc. He's also been a season pass ticket holder to the Browns for as long as I can remember.  Plus, boomers have higher spending power, especially regarding expensive condos like these Geis ones will probably be.

4 hours ago, shack said:

Clearly this area is the new entertainment "hot spot" that has playhouse square potential written all over it. I would expect more millennials living here who generally prefer sports and the bar scene versus aging baby boomers whom I'm guessing would be more inclined  for theater combined with fine restaurants. In any case both are flocking to downtown for the lifestyle it provides. 

Baby boomers are going outta here partying...lol.  Besides, boomers are empty nesting and have the $$ to buy downtown as well as spend $ downtown.  CLE needs boomers $$ as well.

 

 

Edited June 12, 20196 yr by Oxford19

6 hours ago, cfdwarrior said:

This should be posted in that ''toxic masculinity'' thread as well..lol...thought this was all a big no-no now...lol.... and of corse it’s a white male...lol. Real surprised this pic got “likes” here...

Edited June 13, 20196 yr by Oxford19

5 hours ago, KJP said:

@YO to the CLE I thought I was closer time-wise to getting the all-clear to publish my article, but my main source has pulled the reins back on me. I'm sure you can appreciate that. However, I wouldn't have created a new thread had that geotech drilling rig not appeared on Geis' land two days ago. And I had previously reported that condos are planned for this site: http://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2019/04/cleveland-is-rising-up-in-o-zone.html That plan continues. So, I wait....

Is the rendering. posted by CLEInsider101 accurate to what information you were informed of? I hope not.  While I applaud Geis in investing in downtown, they lack on aesthetically pleasing architecture. This looks too similar to The Cuyahoga County Administration Headquarters.  They should look to Westlake Reed Leskosky for input into designs

Edited June 12, 20196 yr by dave2017

5 hours ago, gottaplan said:

I am probably wrong but I just don't see the market for this yet.  Condo's are different from apartments in that you have to have enough money for a down payment which wipes out a lot of young professionals who are currently apartment dwellers.  Even cheap condos at $200k require a $40k down payment.  Even also assuming the down payment is paid for by parents or whatever, part of the attraction of renting is the freedom to leave after a year or whatever.  Not so with a condo.  So playing these two out, you're back to single middle age professionals and married couples who have no kids.  Who want to live downtown.  Not Ohio City or Detroit Shoreway - downtown.  We'll see

Not to mention they have student loans to pay. And if a young couple wants to raise kids they will want good schools nearby so they will eventually move to the burbs. I agree that condos are more suitable for the empty nesters, however, even if what you say is all true, the demand should far exceed the limited supply imo.

2 hours ago, imjustinjk said:

 

You'd be surprised. My dad is a boomer. He and many want to be in the throw of things. Between Playhouse Square, E. 4th, the stadiums, etc,. its a very attractive area for people of all ages. Boomers like sports and bars too, haha. My dad goes out just as much as I do, and is a member of Playhouse, museums, etc. He's also been a season pass ticket holder to the Browns for as long as I can remember.  Plus, boomers have higher spending power, especially regarding expensive condos like these Geis ones will probably be.

Maybe you're right, and there is more crossover appeal than I originally thought. Perhaps University circle is better example. Those who prefer the classical arts will want to live near Severance Hall and the Art Museum. They prefer Operas over broadway musicals that they despise and prefer soccer it they have any interest in sports at all. Immigrants from Europe who've done well here but haven't lost their cultural values that they grew up on.

So I guess based on most of these posts I'm confused....every single one of our peer cities has a market for condo towers except for us? Maybe I'm the exception, but I'm 34, paid off my student loans and own two houses. Why wouldn't I be part of the target market? I think the reason our condo market sucks so badly is that there are the same 800+- options that there have been for the last 20 years. It's time for newer options.

2 hours ago, dave2017 said:

Is the rendering. posted by CLEInsider101 accurate to what information you were informed of? 

 

Do these two guys look identical?

So how many units are we talking about for this building?  New construction of condos downtown could be a great option for empty nesters.  Just not sure how many there are.  I know areas like Battery Park condos have an increased number of empty nesters over young professionals (as prices of the units have climbed well over 350k) but a tower unit is different from a town home unit.

 

As exciting as this is, and it is very exciting for new construction and attracting new groups of people to the City and creating amenity-loaded neighborhoods, Cleveland is STILL a city with declining population.  So many empty nesters are moving south for better weather/lower taxes in Florida/Tennesse, etc

^ You're greatly underestimating the demand for condos downtown. The Cleveland market can easily support the addition of many hundreds of condos over the next 2-5yrs. Geis is probably going to build somewhere in the range of 35-55 units (best guess).

The Greater Cleveland metro area has a population of 2 million people. Roughly, only 15000 of them live downtown. I think there’s plenty of room for growth in a nationwide, downtown trending population shift. 

23 hours ago, CLEInsider101 said:

Although Geis has controlled this site as well as the parking garage in the back for quite some time now, I do not believe it is or ever was a development site for condos. A friend who is well connected to Developers in Cleveland sent me over a rendering he got his hands on for this site and believes Geis is currently pricing... looks like office space to me, which is parallel to what I have heard from him as well...

 

This reminds me of some of the crap proposed for the County building a block away.