An article today in Crains, "Yes, Clevelanders, you are part of the Midwest" talks about a CityLab survey of12,000 people about what makes up the midwest.  

 

"Chicago, at 99%, was nearly unanimous in being viewed as part of the Midwest, as were St. Louis and Indianapolis (both 98%); Kansas City, Mo. (97%); and Columbus, Detroit and Milwaukee (all 96%). Cincinnati was at 92%. Cleveland, meanwhile, was at 84% — solidly Midwestern, but with some people, apparently, thinking of it as more of an eastern city. Cleveland is not, though, among "places where people are more divided about their alleged Midwesternness," Montgomery notes. This includes "cities like Pittsburgh and Buffalo, New York, where respondents were torn between Midwest and East Coast allegiance..."

 

 

Was just curious to get the opinions of those here.  Do you think Cleveland is the Midwest?  I've heard some say the Cuyahoga river is the border. The East Side is the "east coast" of the US, while the West Side is the Midwest.

 

 

Edited August 30, 20195 yr by Pugu

^Reading more about it, I guess you're right! Not sure why its so contentious. Now I'm curious to know why.

 

Apparently you can still vote:   http://whatsthemidwest.com/

 

Here's the reference article:  https://www.citylab.com/life/2019/08/where-is-the-midwest-map-geography-great-lakes-rust-belt/597082/

Edited August 30, 20195 yr by Pugu

27 minutes ago, Pugu said:

 Do you think Cleveland is the Midwest? 

 

Of course it is.  When I was in school, the Midwest ranged from the Allegheny Highlands to the western end of the prairie.  Pittsburgh was definitely Midwestern, although the Yinzers now desperately  deny the fact.  ?

Specifically the Great Lakes ?

 

I think the east/west of Cuyahoga is just used as a geography/topography distinction.

Cleveland is more like Connecticut

Great Lakes region

Cleveland is absolutely Midwest. And Great Lakes too, but that's not as popular as an identifier. 

 

 

I've always thought the Midwest ended at Ohio's eastern border and Pennsylvania is the start of East Coast.  There are arguments to be made, however, that Cleveland is culturally more East Coast than Midwest.

Yes it is Midwest but it’s definitely in the transition zone from

east coast to Midwest. Look no further than the culture, just a lot of east coast vibes, especially the east side of cleveland.  Cleveland has a slight edginess, old city with old architecture,has finger prints of mass immigration in the early 1900’s all over it. Our ties with New England from the “western reserve” settlement.  I think cleveland, Detroit, Pittsburgh, Buffalo are in this zone of definitely having some east coast notes.  I wouldn’t say the same about Indy, Columbus, Kc, etc

The west side is midwest and the east side is east coast. 

I participated in the CityLab poll and I’ll say it again here; Cleveland is the borderland. The Midwest starts at Public Square. 

Sorry! If an area says “pop” instead of “soda” then by law it cannot be considered East Coast. 

10 hours ago, BelievelandD1 said:

Yes it is Midwest but it’s definitely in the transition zone from

east coast to Midwest.

 

This is the answer.

Even East Coast is too broad of a term, IMO. Boston and Springfield have very different cultures, despite being 90 miles apart. Is Altoona really “east coast”? Does Pittsburgh count because it was around during colonial times? My point is, because America is so freaking massive, we use such broad brushes to try and describe regions that could hold four European countries in them. 

Yeah, there are "Five Ohio's" for crissakes!

I think my real problem with the term “Midwest” is that, no matter how people try to justify its boundaries, it’s really just shorthand for “I’ve never been there because it’s flat and boring and no one lives there”. The only places that are ever contentious are the Dakotas because they’re west enough that some uninformed people assume they’re part of the Mountain West, and Oklahoma, which some people treat as an extension of central Texas. Of course, then you open up the can of worms about Dallas probably being more culturally similar to Omaha and Kansas City than Houston or San Antonio, but don’t ever dream about telling a DFW-ite that!

Reminder Yinzers, your city is in Appalachia. Nowhere else.

People in Cleveland say ope. Therefore, it is midwest. 

Heading east, I’d say Cleveland marks the beginning of the end of the Midwest, with the ‘East Coast’ beginning on or east of the OH/PA border.

haha well locally they would sometimes say the true midwest begins on the westside of the cuyahoga.

 

or to put it this way, cleveland is as east coast as buffalo and pittsburgh are midwest.

 

at the very least, clearly just asking the question shows there is a bit of a fuzzy buffer zone between regions.

of course, this is too simple a designation, because there are overlapping and complementary geographic identities. I believe that the Midwest starts around Huron, then due south toward Crestline, Granville, Lancaster. Cleveland is not Midwestern, it's a Great Lakes City that borders the Midwest and Appalachia. Cleveland is too hilly and forested to be Midwestern - the Midwest is enormous farms and grids. Columbus, Dayton and Toledo (also GL) are Ohio's Midwestern cities; Cleveland is Great Lakes City; Cincinnati is an Appalachian city bordering the Plateau/Foothills/Upper South and the table-top Midwest. I don't get much of an East Coast vibe in CLE, (more in Buffalo); I think that's the Firelands inheritance in spatial planning and a desire to be associated with more worldly cities than those in Ohio.

Edited September 4, 20195 yr by westerninterloper

The Cleveland metro has a lot of land that is only farmland when crop prices are really high (say at least $5 corn and $9.50 beans) but is left fallow otherwise due to low yields. You see it all over if you know what to look for. Meanwhile around Columbus all land that can be monitzied is. Like how the land Polaris Amphitheatre was on was planted within a year or two of its closure.

On ‎8‎/‎31‎/‎2019 at 6:09 AM, mu2010 said:

 

This is the answer.

It is not East Coast like Philly, Boston or New York, but it is a lot more like Philly Boston or new York than say Columbus or Indy. It is not Midwest like Indy, Columbus, Milwaukee or Minneapolis, but it has a Chicago and Detroit type feel to it. It is very similar to Pittsburgh, and Buffalo with its manufacturing roots.

 

I would almost say it does not belong in the Midwest category but a separate category of Great Lakes needs to be used for Cleveland because it is similar to the cities on the Great lakes, that are rich in their manufacturing roots. The Great Lakes cities (the ones on a Lake) have their own economies that give them their own independent financial eco-systems that allow them to function more independently than other traditional Midwestern, Southern or Western cities.

 

I would not call Cleveland East Coast or Midwest, but decidedly Great Lakes or more Mid-Atlantic.

Edited September 4, 20195 yr by Brutus_buckeye

1 hour ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

I would not call Cleveland East Coast or Midwest, but decidedly Great Lakes or more Mid-Atlantic.

 

Heres why that won’t work. Chicago overwhelmingly calls itself the “Midwest.” That renders “Great Lakes” as a secondary label. Cleveland is not more “Great Lakes” than Chicago is. 

 

P.s. Mid-Atlantic? Seriously?

Edited September 4, 20195 yr by surfohio

10 hours ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

 

 

I would not call Cleveland East Coast or Midwest, but decidedly Great Lakes or more Mid-Atlantic.

 

 

Dood. Cleveland is the Midwest - this ain't the Little League World Series 

10 hours ago, surfohio said:

 

Heres why that won’t work. Chicago overwhelmingly calls itself the “Midwest.” That renders “Great Lakes” as a secondary label. Cleveland is not more “Great Lakes” than Chicago is. 

 

P.s. Mid-Atlantic? Seriously?

 Cleveland has a Chicago feel to it, but it also has a Buffalo and Pittsburgh feel to it.  While Chicago is Midwest, I would not say Buffalo or Pittsburgh are. This is why it makes it hard to pigeonhole Cleveland.  Columbus and Indy feel like identical flat clones of each other and are the epitome of the Midwest. Throw in Minneapolis, Des Moines, Omaha, St. Louis and you have your Midwest cities. Cleveland does not fit into that category very well. Now I agree, it is not quite East Coast either. Just my impression.

I really like Colin Woodward’s approach in his book: “American Nations: A History of the Eleven Rival Regional Cultures in North America”. 

 

In his model, NEO falls distinctly within “Yankeedom” (see map), which helps to explain why many Clevelanders identify more closely with both East Coast and Chicago, than say, Columbus, Indy, or Pittsburgh.

 

I became intrigued with this stuff when I (lifelong Clevelander) moved to Dayton temporarily for work. Its culture was surprisingly foreign to me, despite it being a mere three hour drive from home. But in Woodward’s model, Cleveland and Dayton are actually two “nations” apart, culturally speaking. 

 

His model is just one attempt to explain deep regional divisions. And it’s sure to fuel some passionate arguments. But I think it’s a pretty good step toward a more thoughtful conversation. Fascinating stuff. 

 

https://uk.businessinsider.com/the-11-nations-of-the-united-states-2015-7?

I've seen that before, and I think it's a pretty good start to the conversation.  The oddest thing about it is the fact that it combines the Great Lakes region and New England together into "Yankeedom", and much of the corn belt Midwest with Jersey/Delaware/Mid Atlantic Coastal regions into "The Midlands".  I would think those would be separate regions.

^^ That map is really dumb. Pittsburgh is smack in the middle of Appalachia, and gets excluded. But then the majority of TEXAS is "Greater Appalachia"? It's honestly one of the worst attempts at this region-drawing that I've seen.

also, a lot of NYC people regard upstate New Yorkers as more "Midwestern" than Eastern. I once worked with a woman who, after visiting Buffalo, said everyone there had "funny" accents?. I suppose like Cleveland, Buffalo (as well as nearby Rochester) is a hybrid of both regions. 

Edited September 4, 20195 yr by eastvillagedon

18 minutes ago, Robuu said:

^^ That map is really dumb. Pittsburgh is smack in the middle of Appalachia, and gets excluded. But then the majority of TEXAS is "Greater Appalachia"? It's honestly one of the worst attempts at this region-drawing that I've seen.

 

You should probably read the study/book before saying "something is really dumb".

^ I've read reviews of the book and outlines of the author's arguments. I feel like more time spent on it would be wasted.

So odd that this is even an issue. Ohio is the midwest. PA is not.

 

While I would prefer that the Great Lakes would be the main region that Ohio is associated with because the "midwest" is too broad, it is what it is.

Even then, the southern half of Ohio is definitely not "Great Lakes", or Cincinnatians would take weekend trips to Put-in-Bay instead of Lake Cumberland. Defining regions at the state level is dumb since states are just political entities made of random lines drawn on a map.

The influence that Connecticut has had on Cleveland is absolutely measureable. 

 

People from Hartford, CT sound like Clevelanders, not like they're from suburban New York or Boston.

^ same with the Jersey Shore. Northeast Ohio, Connecticut and NJ Shore are fairly neutral accents for the most part. 

On 8/30/2019 at 7:15 PM, jeremyck01 said:

I've always thought the Midwest ended at Ohio's eastern border and Pennsylvania is the start of East Coast.  There are arguments to be made, however, that Cleveland is culturally more East Coast than Midwest.

THIS