Anyone else in Ohio get this? The petition in question is the referendum to overturn the corporate bailout of nuclear and coal plants owned by, among others First Energy Corporation, fossil fuel corporations in Ohio (plus one in Indiana I believe -- for good measure) It's THE most disgusting, deceiving and diabolical mailer I've ever received. Ah, but it's perfectly legal. A friend spoke with Phil Richter, Exec Director of the Ohio Elections Commission. He says they are powerless to do anything because there is no campaign. The is a preemptive effort to prevent signatures from being gathering to prevent the referendum from reaching the ballot -- which then would become a campaign. Until then, I guess, it's simply "corporate free speech" by Ohioans for Energy Security protected by the First Amendment. Wonder how many actual flesh and blood "Ohioans" there are vs energy corpses bankrolling the whole affair. I don't have a whole lot of time, but I'm for damn sure now going to collect signatures to repeal HB 6. I hope you will too! On the other hand, maybe I'm totally off base if a Maoist shows up on my doorstep with petition...and Little Red Book...in hand.

 

 

Someone wrote on Facebook about this.... 

"I will say I was desperate for work and I am working part-time, temporarily for this utility-backed organization. They are paying $17 an hour plus $10 a day to drive around and look for potential petitioners--- we haven't found any yet. So yes, they are literally paying me to be a spy. Capitalism makes you do unethical things."

I don't care who you are, if you use this sort of paranoia-inducing rhetoric there is absolutely no way you are up to any good.

I received it too. Disgusting. 

The first time I say their ad on TV I thought this would make a great Saturday Night Live commercial parody. 

They sent me a postcard saying that China will get my personal info if I sign the petition.  This scare tactic makes me want to find a petition. 

The basis for the propaganda is that Chinese banks provided loans for natural gas plants that support the referendum to repeal HB6. Fun fact, Chinese banks also provided loans to First Energy as part of a $2.5 billion line of credit. You don't hear about that in those ads. A couple snippets from an opinion piece on Bloomberg:

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-09-03/ohio-energy-bailout-supporters-turn-to-china-conspiracy-theory

 

Quote

Ohio's Great Chinese Power Conspiracy Theory

A campaign to prop up struggling coal and nuclear-power plants relies on fear more than logic.

 

An entity dubbing itself “Ohioans For Energy Security” has a warning for the good people of the Buckeye State: "The Chinese government is quietly invading our American electric grid; intertwining themselves financially in our energy infrastructure."

...

I also asked LoParo how OFES feels about Industrial and Commercial Bank of China’s role as a lender to none other than FirstEnergy itself. An amended agreement from last October attached to the parent company’s last 10-K filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission lists the Chinese bank as part of a 23-strong syndicate providing a $2.5 billion credit line to FirstEnergy and several of its subsidiaries.

 

Here’s the thing: That also doesn’t give ICBC any control of FirstEnergy’s operations in Ohio’s power market. But by the comically tortured logic of the OFES ad, surely having a Chinese bank provide credit to the actual owner of the grid presents a similarly sinister challenge? LoParo actually said he would “prefer” FirstEnergy not to take such funding. (A spokesperson told me the company isn’t associated with OFES and doesn’t plan on changing its lending banks.)

 

 

^This truly is a bonkers story, and I’m guessing it’s gonna get even crazier.

I was somewhat indifferent when this initiative was passed by the legislature (more because of the nuclear part, not the coal part), but there's no way I'll vote in the affirmative if/when this referendum ends up on the ballot. This is just scummy.

1 hour ago, KJP said:

 

I don't know who Angie Schmitt is but if she is going to take a completely gratuitous pot shot at boring old Ohio she should get her facts straight and note that while two coal plants figure into the equation, the legislation had more to do with a couple of nuclear power plants. 

 

By the way I would like to sign the petition.  Any central place to go rather than wait for them to appear at my door step.  Thanks.

56 minutes ago, BigDipper 80 said:

I was somewhat indifferent when this initiative was passed by the legislature (more because of the nuclear part, not the coal part), but there's no way I'll vote in the affirmative if/when this referendum ends up on the ballot. This is just scummy.

 

I'm in the exact same boat.  I'm all for nuclear, and wasn't happy about the coal bailouts (not even in our state!), but because of the nuclear, I wasn't ticked off enough to want to do anything about it.  The first time I saw one of those China ads on TV, I realize how desperate First Energy must be to resort to such crap, and now I'm pissed off.

42 minutes ago, Htsguy said:

I don't know who Angie Schmitt is but if she is going to take a completely gratuitous pot shot at boring old Ohio she should get her facts straight and note that while two coal plants figure into the equation, the legislation had more to do with a couple of nuclear power plants. 

 

By the way I would like to sign the petition.  Any central place to go rather than wait for them to appear at my door step.  Thanks.

 

Shes lives in Ohio. I think she was trying to criticize the media, saying they don’t consider us a “sexy” story location. That’s how I took it anyway.

 

Fun fact: The Industrial and Commercial Bank of China Limited gave FirstEnergy $178,300,000. https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1031296/000103129616000125/a8-kdated12062016.htm

 

On 9/10/2019 at 12:01 PM, freefourur said:

They sent me a postcard saying that China will get my personal info if I sign the petition.  This scare tactic makes me want to find a petition. 

I called the number to report misinformative and xenophobic flyers in my mailbox. 

My suggestion is to report petitioners in areas far from where they aren't. Send the goons on wild goose chases.

 

Or send them after those who are disgustingly circulating these fake petitions....

 

Pro-nuclear bailout group is now circulating its own, unofficial petitions

https://www.cleveland.com/open/2019/09/pro-nuclear-bailout-group-is-now-circulating-its-own-unofficial-petitions.html

 

 

This was a fight between unions and environmentalists and neither side really cared about what was truly best for Ohioans.

33 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

This was a fight between unions and environmentalists and neither side really cared about what was truly best for Ohioans.

 

If this is the case, then we should repeal the law

50 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

This was a fight between unions and environmentalists and neither side really cared about what was truly best for Ohioans.

 

Think about what you're saying here. Why do environmentalists spend their time advocating for environmental protection? Because they think it is what is best for Ohioans! The whole point of environmentalism is that WE have to live on this earth and WE have to deal with the consequences of bad decisions.

That would be up to the legislature. In their infinite wisdom, they signed on to it. Whether it was Union/labor support or whatever.

1 minute ago, DEPACincy said:

 

Think about what you're saying here. Why do environmentalists spend their time advocating for environmental protection? Because they think it is what is best for Ohioans! The whole point of environmentalism is that WE have to live on this earth and WE have to deal with the consequences of bad decisions.

 

You are assuming that environmentalists are pure in their advocacy. There is a lot of "power" at stake behind the environmental lobby. Also, you also would be assuming that many of their doomsday predictions are in fact 1) right, 2) sincere, and 3) no room for compromise.

The one thing that I think most people find fault with the environmental lobby and why a lot of people who many be sympathetic to the environment yet find the environmentalists to be mostly whacko is that they hold such strict dogmatic principles and often are refusing to budge on them no matter what the cost is to the rest of society.

3 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

That would be up to the legislature. In their infinite wisdom, they signed on to it. Whether it was Union/labor support or whatever.

 

So you're against referendums?

 

1 minute ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

You are assuming that environmentalists are pure in their advocacy.

 

What about the legislature not being pure in their advocacy?  Is it not the point of referendums to remove egregious laws that were passed in bad faith because of ulterior motives?

17 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

 

You are assuming that environmentalists are pure in their advocacy. There is a lot of "power" at stake behind the environmental lobby. Also, you also would be assuming that many of their doomsday predictions are in fact 1) right, 2) sincere, and 3) no room for compromise.

The one thing that I think most people find fault with the environmental lobby and why a lot of people who many be sympathetic to the environment yet find the environmentalists to be mostly whacko is that they hold such strict dogmatic principles and often are refusing to budge on them no matter what the cost is to the rest of society.

The premise of your post is that it was just environmentalists who were against the original legislation which is hardly the case.  I was against it  as I see it as a public corporate bailout for a failing company

Edited October 24, 20195 yr by Htsguy

On 9/24/2019 at 7:24 AM, KJP said:

My suggestion is to report petitioners in areas far from where they aren't. Send the goons on wild goose chases.

 

Or send them after those who are disgustingly circulating these fake petitions....

 

Pro-nuclear bailout group is now circulating its own, unofficial petitions

https://www.cleveland.com/open/2019/09/pro-nuclear-bailout-group-is-now-circulating-its-own-unofficial-petitions.html

I called them and did my best "aggrieved old white man" impression, telling them that there was a petitioner harassing everyone down by some warehouses in Central. Sadly they didn't bite.

17 minutes ago, 10albersa said:

 

So you're against referendums?

 

 

What about the legislature not being pure in their advocacy?  Is it not the point of referendums to remove egregious laws that were passed in bad faith because of ulterior motives?

I am against referendums when it is one special interest group fighting it out over another special interest group. Neither party really cares about Ohioans. It is just a bunch of outside money coming in and trying to influence things with bad policy. On both sides. Believe me, I financially benefit much more from repeal of this, but the policy on both sides is really bad

 

 

29 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

 

You are assuming that environmentalists are pure in their advocacy. There is a lot of "power" at stake behind the environmental lobby. Also, you also would be assuming that many of their doomsday predictions are in fact 1) right, 2) sincere, and 3) no room for compromise.

The one thing that I think most people find fault with the environmental lobby and why a lot of people who many be sympathetic to the environment yet find the environmentalists to be mostly whacko is that they hold such strict dogmatic principles and often are refusing to budge on them no matter what the cost is to the rest of society.

 

This argument is stuck in the early '90s.

^ So you say there is a rational party on the environmental side that is open to compromise?

Of are they in fact right in their doomsday predictions?  Which one is it?

 

Could it be that maybe, just maybe we could take care of the planet while at the same time recognizing that we don't necessarily have to destroy our way of life in the quixotic quest to supposedly save humanity from itself?  Personally, I have faith in humanity and we will be just fine.

Plugging your head in the sand isn't a solution.

54 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

^ So you say there is a rational party on the environmental side that is open to compromise?

Of are they in fact right in their doomsday predictions?  Which one is it?

 

Could it be that maybe, just maybe we could take care of the planet while at the same time recognizing that we don't necessarily have to destroy our way of life in the quixotic quest to supposedly save humanity from itself?  Personally, I have faith in humanity and we will be just fine.

 

What are you even going on about? Environmentalists advocate for environmental causes. What is so hard to understand about that? Your arguments here are the same arguments people have been making for decades to be able to keep pumping pollutants into our air and water. 

 

You may not like people who care about the environment but you can thank them for National Parks. You can thank them for a Cuyahoga River that doesn't burn. You can thank them for cleaner air to breathe and lower asthma rates. You can thank them for cleaner internal combustion engines. The environmental movement has contributed so much to our modern day quality of life and people continue to pretend like things just magically got better and there weren't people out there FIGHTING for this stuff.

1 hour ago, DEPACincy said:

 

What are you even going on about? Environmentalists advocate for environmental causes. What is so hard to understand about that? Your arguments here are the same arguments people have been making for decades to be able to keep pumping pollutants into our air and water. 

 

You may not like people who care about the environment but you can thank them for National Parks. You can thank them for a Cuyahoga River that doesn't burn. You can thank them for cleaner air to breathe and lower asthma rates. You can thank them for cleaner internal combustion engines. The environmental movement has contributed so much to our modern day quality of life and people continue to pretend like things just magically got better and there weren't people out there FIGHTING for this stuff.

 

It's amazing how many times I hear conservatives say, "Well if there was a need for (insert identity of nice thing here), we would already have it." If you have faith in humanity, then let's work together to support cleaner, healthy places and practices.

On 9/10/2019 at 11:11 AM, GCrites80s said:

I don't care who you are, if you use this sort of paranoia-inducing rhetoric there is absolutely no way you are up to any good.

 

Nailed it!

 

Quote

 

Ohio House Speaker Arrested In Case Related To Nuclear Power Plant Bailout Law

 

House Speaker Larry Householder has been arrested in connection to a $60 million public corruption racketeering conspiracy case. Federal agents were at his farm in Perry County Tuesday morning.

 

Sources have confirmed that former Ohio GOP Chairman Matt Borges was also arrested, along with Householder's adviser Jeff Longstreth. Veteran lobbyist Neil Clark was also arrested, according to sources.

 

It's believed the case is related to the controversial nuclear power plant bailout law that was passed last year. The law was challenged in an expensive campaign that included charges of racism. The effort to repeal it was equally bitter, with allegations of intimidation of signature gatherers. [...]

 

The law sends $150 million a year to the Davis-Besse and Perry power plants, which were owned by FirstEnergy Solutions. That company, which had been a subsidiary of FirstEnergy Corporation when it was first created but was no longer related to FirstEnergy Corporation, emerged from bankruptcy protection earlier this year and is now known as Energy Harbor.

 

 

So... The law should be automatically repealed, right? Right?!?

Clean up in aisle 4. I knew that First Energy deal was shady. Hopefully he gets 10-15 years. 

2 hours ago, 10albersa said:

So... The law should be automatically repealed, right? Right?!?

 

Future Gubernatorial Candidate John Cranley thinks so:

 

 

I would vote for DeWine over Cranley. He better not win the nomination (this is all way too far out to talk about though)

There's a lot of names that have better reputations with Ohio Dems than Cranley.

1 minute ago, GCrites80s said:

There's a lot of names that have better reputations with Ohio Dems than Cranley.

 

Dewine got to where he is by never doing anything.  There was no record to attack.  

 

Cranley is always up to no good and the rest of the state's media won't treat him with the kid gloves that The Enquirer does.  

Hell no they won't, the Columbus media has a history of being immediately suspicious of anything involving Cincinnati politics -- in a way it's not with the rest of the state.

 

I have no idea why the New York Times likes him so much though. He probably sucks up to them and they don't actually know very much about him.

Edited July 21, 20204 yr by GCrites80s

1 hour ago, ryanlammi said:

I would vote for DeWine over Cranley. He better not win the nomination (this is all way too far out to talk about though)

 

I think I'd just have to write someone in. 

1 hour ago, GCrites80s said:

I have no idea why the New York Times likes him so much though. He probably sucks up to them and they don't actually know very much about him.

 

Last week it was the NY Times, this week it's Bloomberg: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-07-21/a-glimpse-into-the-fiscal-gloom-bearing-down-on-america-s-cities?srnd=prognosis

 

A few years ago somebody from CNN or MSNBC tweeted that Cranley seemed like an "interesting guy" after reading his bio.  I sent that guy a detailed description of how he lies about his involvement with the formation of the Ohio Innocence Project but never received a response.  

 

On 9/11/2019 at 6:59 PM, Enginerd said:

^This truly is a bonkers story, and I’m guessing it’s gonna get even crazier.

 

Heh, good call.

Gov. DeWine calling for repeal and replacement of HB6:

 

This guy is such an embarrassment to Greater Cleveland

 

 

https://www.dispatch.com/story/news/politics/state/2020/10/29/two-indicted-along-householder-ready-cop-pleas-hb-6-scandal/6067620002/

 

Quote

At least two of the five people charged in the federal corruption scandal involving former Ohio House Speaker Larry Householder were set to finalize plea deals with prosecutors Thursday.

 

The federal court docket in the case listed plea agreements for Juan Cespedes and Jeffrey Longstreth, though the documents were not yet accessible. Attorney Mark Collins, representing Juan Cespedes, said a court hearing for his client would take place today.

 

Whoa! Chuck Jones fired at FirstEnergy #HB6

 

Statement: “The Independent Review Committee of the Board determined that these executives violated certain FirstEnergy policies and its code of conduct.”

 

https://investors.firstenergycorp.com/file/Index?KeyFile=405788662

 

https://www.dispatch.com/story/news/politics/2020/11/16/ohio-fbi-agents-search-home-puco-chairman-sam-randazzo/6308657002/

Quote

FBI agents were seen outside the home of Public Utilities Commission of Ohio Chairman Sam Randazzo Monday morning. 

 

Agents were going in and out of 645 S. Grant Ave. in German Village, which is owned by Randazzo, according to Franklin County auditor records. 

 

"FBI agents are conducting court-authorized law enforcement activity in that area in relation to a sealed federal search warrant," FBI spokesman Todd Lindgren told The Enquirer, adding no arrests have been made and none are planned at this time.

 

 

 

 

 

Appears Randazzo may have taken a $4m payment from First Energy.