February 4, 201015 yr There may be a need for consolidation if one facility is far underutilized. Its like having 3 CVS Pharmacies within 3 miles... which is usually the case....and or two out of the three seem to struggle because the current climate of the customer base they reach within a certain radius.... really only dictates the need for one. Could consolidation be a good thing?
February 4, 201015 yr Businesses that are out east like using CGF--if they can--because its closer than BKL or CLE. Businesses downtown like BKL because of its proximity. So, the two airports serve two distinct markets. However, there are business in Beachwood etc that use BKL instead of CGF because it is a better airport and CGF cannot accommodate them--for example: CGF has only one runway and it is 5102 ft. long x 100 ft. BKL has two runways, the longer of which is 6198 x 150 ft. BKL has ARFF (like Hopkins or other airports do) (ARFF=Fire/Rescue), but I don't think CGF has any. BKL is a great airport and should have some scheduled service. (Porter Air's service at Toronto's Downtown Airport would be a logical carrier and they have indicated they were interested in serving the City of Cleveland.)
February 4, 201015 yr As a resident of Cleveland I'd love to see CGF closed and the air traffic consolidated to BKL. This would bring more money to the airport, making it less of a burden on the city and possibly leading to further expansion at BKL. Of course if I lived out East I'd probably have an entirely different view on the matter.
February 4, 201015 yr ^Depending on who you ask... I thought the residents around the county airport put up quite a fuss when expansion plans were brought into discussion.
February 4, 201015 yr ^Agreed, the residents of the cities around the airport protested because a larger runway means larger planes, and larger planes mean more noise. I think it makes more sense for the planes to take off and land over the lake than over my neighborhood.
February 5, 201015 yr What would happen to the County Airport Land? Industrial Park? World's longest shuffle board court (former runway)?
February 6, 201015 yr Residents around ANY airport in any city in the world don't want airport expansion. But the business community around Beachwood i would think likes the airport. I would favor consolidation of charter and air taxi services at BKL, but i would want to keep CGF open for smaller general aviation, as once an airport is gone its gone forever. But i would never drive out to CGF to catch a flight if i had a choice--choosing first BKL, then CLE.
February 6, 201015 yr ^The problem with that plan is that neither the county nor city is saving money. If an airport is open then people can choose to land their plane there if they want to. You can say you want to consolidate air taxi and charter services at BKL, but if the customer wants to land at CGF than they can (assuming the plane is small enough). In addition to that I don't see how consolidating these services at Burke saves any many in operating costs at CGF or Burke. Maybe an option is to close CGF, but keep it in "reserve" so to speak. You stop operations, but retain the land for future use. But let's be honest, I don't see aviation growing much in the long term. Oil prices are only going up and this is making aviation unaffordable for an ever growing number of people.
February 8, 201015 yr If an airport is open then people can choose to land their plane there if they want to. You can say you want to consolidate air taxi and charter services at BKL, but if the customer wants to land at CGF than they can (assuming the plane is small enough). Not necessarily. A plane isn't going to land at an airport if all of its support services and comforts for the passenger (waiting area with nice leather couches, rental car office/service, decent food/business services) are at another airport. Air taxi services/corporate hangers can offer all of this---and do at BKL. I don't know what at CGF for the business traveler, but if none of that existed at CGF, then that does consolidate the market at BKL. CGF could stay open for individual/general aviation pilots for recreational reasons.
April 20, 201015 yr Finally, some solid thinking of why BKL is important for Cleveland--a nice change from the more common arguments calling for its closure. (one technical point from the article: "Burke currently handles any kind of aircraft flown in the world." I don't think the airport could handle an A380 or an An225, but overall its a good article.) Burke's role in economic development and aviation is critical for Cleveland's future By Plain Dealer guest columnist April 19, 2010, 3:52PM Burke Lakefront Airport has opportunity to soar By Anthony J. Coyne Clevelanders should not consider grounding Burke Lakefront Airport before it is given an opportunity to take off. Recent articles and editorials have argued that the city of Cleveland and those charged with planning its future development have ignored the role and potential of Burke, possible alternative uses of its 450 acres and the transportation network surrounding it. Not so. Consider these facts.... http://www.cleveland.com/opinion/index.ssf/2010/04/burkes_role_in_economic_develo.html
April 20, 201015 yr ^I was under the impression that the A380 could land anywhere the 747 could and I know I've seen 747s at Burke.
April 20, 201015 yr ^I was under the impression that the A380 could land anywhere the 747 could and I know I've seen 747s at Burke. The A380 is MUCH heavier. I think it has more to do with the construction of the runway and tarmac for load bearing more than the runway distance itself. I think a few airports have had to rebuild runways to accommodate the A380. Oh, and you need double decker jetways and other monster support equipment... it's really a beast of a plane. I'm actually a little surprised that 747's can land at Burke. The runway is only about 6,000 ft. long which is pretty tight for a 747. I highly doubt a commercial airline would land a fully loaded 747 at BKL.
April 20, 201015 yr ^Burke's runways are 9000 feet. http://www.clevelandairport.com/site/414/default.aspx
April 20, 201015 yr That's Hopkins. Burke's are the following lengths: Primary 6L/24R: 6,198 ft. long x 150 ft. wide Secondary 6R/34L: 5,198 ft. long x 100 ft. wide http://www.burkeairport.com/Facilities---Services/Runway-Specifications.aspx
April 20, 201015 yr As a point of comparison, Burke's runway length is going to be about the same as Chicago Midway or Washington Reagan National.
April 21, 201015 yr ^I was under the impression that the A380 could land anywhere the 747 could and I know I've seen 747s at Burke. The A380 is MUCH heavier. I think it has more to do with the construction of the runway and tarmac for load bearing more than the runway distance itself. I think a few airports have had to rebuild runways to accommodate the A380. Oh, and you need double decker jetways and other monster support equipment... it's really a beast of a plane. I'm actually a little surprised that 747's can land at Burke. The runway is only about 6,000 ft. long which is pretty tight for a 747. I highly doubt a commercial airline would land a fully loaded 747 at BKL. As you might remember, the USAF flies an empty C-5A Galaxy to the airshow at BLK every September. The key to aircraft performance isn't size, its thrust to weight ratio. Also, you have to consider whether or not the taxiway and runway surfaces can support the weight (they can). I've personally flown L-1011 and B767 aircraft to LaGuardia and LGA only has 7,000 foot runways.
April 23, 201015 yr I've personally flown L-1011 and B767 aircraft to LaGuardia and LGA only has 7,000 foot runways. wow..i wouldn't want to be such a heavy bird landing at LGA... Air Force One uses BKL, doesn't it? Though I believe its been modified to use shorter runways than what it traditionally used for 747s, no?
April 23, 201015 yr Air Force One uses Hopkins. More room for security. I truly cannot remember a 747 every being at BKL.
April 26, 201015 yr As a point of comparison, Burke's runway length is going to be about the same as Chicago Midway or Washington Reagan National. Yes, but I don't think the runway can support the weight of at 747/767/777 type plane
April 26, 201015 yr Air Force One uses Hopkins. More room for security. I truly cannot remember a 747 every being at BKL. Me either. Continental has diverted 767's, and 777's to hopkins during newark issues. However, you see private 747s land at Hopkins constantly.
May 10, 201015 yr What are people's thoughts as to the impact on BKL of the UA-CO merger? There will be no change. Burke is a non factor. What leads you to believe there will or will not be impact at Burke. Continental owns or has control over the landing rights at Burke. There is currently no commercial jet service and with the merger there wont be any.
May 10, 201015 yr Since when did Air Canada and Delta start flying planes into Burke? Over the past 2 weeks I've seen an Air Canada plane land once and parked by one of the hangers once. And 2 days ago I saw a Delta plane parked next to the same hanger closest to the terminal. I dont know plane sizes at all so I can't say which one it was, but it was bigger than the planes Continental flys out of terminal D at Hopkins.
May 10, 201015 yr Since when did Air Canada and Delta start flying planes into Burke? Over the past 2 weeks I've seen an Air Canada plane land once and parked by one of the hangers once. And 2 days ago I saw a Delta plane parked next to the same hanger closest to the terminal. I dont know plane sizes at all so I can't say which one it was, but it was bigger than the planes Continental flys out of terminal D at Hopkins. Those were Charters.
May 10, 201015 yr Since when did Air Canada and Delta start flying planes into Burke? Over the past 2 weeks I've seen an Air Canada plane land once and parked by one of the hangers once. And 2 days ago I saw a Delta plane parked next to the same hanger closest to the terminal. I dont know plane sizes at all so I can't say which one it was, but it was bigger than the planes Continental flys out of terminal D at Hopkins. Pretty sure that Air Canada plane (737 or A320) was the Toronto Blue Jays aircraft. I saw it take off last Wednesday at about 5:20 after the afternoon game and it turned Northeast as most Air Canada planes would I suppose. I've also seen the Texas Rangers plane at BKL this year. Seems pretty standard for sports charters to use BKL.
May 10, 201015 yr Those were charters. Toronto Blue Jays and Boston Celtics a couple of days before that there was a 737 with the Texas Rangers painted on it.
May 10, 201015 yr What are people's thoughts as to the impact on BKL of the UA-CO merger? There will be no change. Burke is a non factor. What leads you to believe there will or will not be impact at Burke. Continental owns or has control over the landing rights at Burke. There is currently no commercial jet service and with the merger there wont be any. "Continental owns or has control over the landing rights at Burke." Did you mean to add the 'neither' after 'Continental'? In any event, I think CO does actually have some unofficial control as to what competitive flights are allowed at BKL...off the record. Two things come to mind: 1. If CO's market dominance is reduced there would be greater chances for new carriers to enter the market. For example, Porter Air mentioned its interest in Cleveland--and probably to BKL as it mirrors their service at their hub--Toronto City Airport (and not YYZ--the Toronto equivalent of Hopkins). 2. If CO indeed calls the shots for commercial service at BKL, then any hub dissolution may take that power away, meaning the airport and its cheaper landing fees becomes an option for airlines.
October 15, 201014 yr Does anyone know what is going on at the Northern Edge of Burk? There's been a lot of heavy equipment working there for the last four months and someone said that they plan on putting a restaurant out there. I kind find that hard to believe?
October 15, 201014 yr Does anyone know what is going on at the Northern Edge of Burk? There's been a lot of heavy equipment working there for the last four months and someone said that they plan on putting a restaurant out there. I kind find that hard to believe? I believe that is a dredging fill area and they are just moving fill around and compacting the ground to accommodate additional material dredged from the river. No chance of a restaurant there, but maybe somewhere else adjacent to Burke.
October 18, 201014 yr Does anyone know what is going on at the Northern Edge of Burk? There's been a lot of heavy equipment working there for the last four months and someone said that they plan on putting a restaurant out there. I kind find that hard to believe? i don't think there is a restaurant going there, but there is a significant amount of fill that has been leaving the area. there is a gate set up on the east side of aviation high school and a number of trucks leaving each day. on busy days, the city was spraying down north marginal with water in the evening to clean up the dust/dirt. my thought was that the city was moving some of this fill to their developing industrial park along I77, but that is just a guess. i haven't followed any of the trucks.
May 5, 201114 yr New hangar space at Cleveland's Burke Lakefront Airport could mark start of lakefront plan CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Efforts to build hangar space for an aircraft maintenance company at Burke Lakefront Airport could prove the first piece of the city of Cleveland's larger, expansive plans for redeveloping the lakefront. Constant Aviation, a company based at Cleveland Hopkins International Airport, is looking for as much as 100,000 square feet at Burke. One of the potential sites is Aviation High School, which has been vacant for years except for a short period when it was used as a homeless shelter. http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2011/05/new_hangar_space_at_burke_lake.html
May 6, 201114 yr ^Its nice to see an aviation company looking at Burke to grow. According to their website, they're headquartered at CLE, with operations also in Alabama. Its also good to see that the city is looking to improve BKL and doing so in conjunction with the overall lakefront plan (and not in conflict with it). I didn't see the master plan cited in the article, but it would be great to have a 'regular' terminal there with secure areas, baggage claims, gates with seats, etc.
May 6, 201114 yr Interesting. Two BKL articles in one day. The above and: Military planes using Cleveland's Burke Lakefront Airport on a training mission CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Military planes seen flying along the Lake Erie shoreline Thursday evening likely raised questions with anyone who saw them. The planes, C-27 Spartans, were using Burke Lakefront Airport on a training mission, an airport spokesman said, and were carrying Air Force personnel... http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2011/05/military_planes_using_clevelan.html
May 6, 201114 yr I was down at Voinovich Park and saw them go overhead. I couldn't figure out what they were doing.
August 4, 201113 yr FAA/Congressional budget issue impacting projects at BKL (and elsewhere). "...The funding impasse has also delayed the start of a $473,000 project to resurface the runway apron at Burke Lakefront Airport in downtown Cleveland...." http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2011/08/work_at_cleveland_hopkins_inte.html
August 15, 201113 yr Little story from the past when the big 1.5 million balloon release at Public Square closed a runway at BKL (as well as did other things).... http://www.cleveland.com/remembers/index.ssf/2011/08/balloonfest_1986_the_spectacle.html
January 19, 201213 yr It would be a unique intermodal hub to have air, water, rail and highway all at a single port facility. I don't know of another that combines all four major modes of transportation at one location. Offers some interesting possibilities for linking up the modes! I like it a lot, but I think the FAA said no to this plan. That being said, how can this be made possible? Does the landfill around Burke have to be expanded to provide the clearance for harbor cranes and allow planes to land? If so, I think that this could probably happen a lot sooner than the scuttled E. 55th port and clear out more land for lakefront development. I would also like Burke to become a downtown alternative to Hopkins. I think it's a bit ridiculous that the alternative so far is Akron-Canton, which is so far from downtown Cleveland (but, yes, good for Akron-Canton). Extending the Red Line to Burke could then provide an efficient link for people transferring between airports.
February 14, 201213 yr Not a service change, but apparently more transparency about landing fees or some company just made a good sale, replacing the city's existing system. Here's that company's press release. "STAMFORD, Conn., Feb. 14, 2012 /PRNewswire/ -- PASSUR® Aerospace, Inc. (OTC: PSSR.PK) announced today that Cleveland Hopkins International Airport and Cleveland Burke Lakefront Airport have contracted for the PASSUR® Landing Fee Management solution to ensure that the airports capture all their landing fees, forecast and plan revenue accurately, and simplify the process through automation...." http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/cleveland-hopkins-international-airport-and-cleveland-burke-lakefront-airport-contract-for-passur-revenue-management-solutions-139278383.html
August 10, 201212 yr Since when did Air Canada and Delta start flying planes into Burke? Over the past 2 weeks I've seen an Air Canada plane land once and parked by one of the hangers once. And 2 days ago I saw a Delta plane parked next to the same hanger closest to the terminal. I dont know plane sizes at all so I can't say which one it was, but it was bigger than the planes Continental flys out of terminal D at Hopkins. Charters. Check to see who the Tribe is playing.
August 10, 201212 yr ^ When I worked over at Erieview I got addicted to this site: http://flightaware.com/live/airport/KBKL
August 10, 201212 yr ^I wish you hadn't shared that link. Ha ha! But yeah, now I understand how people can get pretty eccentric watching boats/planes etc. I love how you can click on the type of plane or jet.
August 10, 201212 yr ^ When I worked over at Erieview I got addicted to this site: http://flightaware.com/live/airport/KBKL Yeah if you can get the tail number you can find out where it came from (unless the owner of the aircraft has it blocked with the site).
August 10, 201212 yr ^^^easily one of the best time wasters at work. Pretty cool to look at some big international airports and how airplanes are routed. One of Delta's 767's for example might go ATL-JFK-MAD-ATL-LAX-ATL-SEA-KIX-HNL-SFO or something crazy like that
August 13, 201212 yr Too bad this not for a runway extension...... "The City of Cleveland, Department of Port Control will conduct a Public Workshop and Hearing to present the Environmental Assessment (EA) for the proposed Runway Safety Area (RSA) Improvements at Burke Lakefront Airport from 3 p.m. to 6 p.m. on Wednesday, Sept. 5, 2012 at Burke Lakefront Airport, 1501 North Marginal Road. The Department of Port Control has completed the Draft Environmental Assessment Report and the report is available for review as of Monday, August 6, 2012. To download the report...." http://www.burkeairport.com/Public-Notice.aspx
July 12, 201311 yr The biz-jet quotient was very high today at BKL. Anyone know what was going on in town? Maybe Bynum and friends? Also nice to see the Air Canada A320 there, as well as a US Coast Guard G5!
July 12, 201311 yr The biz-jet quotient was very high today at BKL. Anyone know what was going on in town? Maybe Bynum and friends? Also nice to see the Air Canada A320 there, as well as a US Coast Guard G5! Air Canada was probably the Blue Jays.
July 12, 201311 yr The biz-jet quotient was very high today at BKL. Anyone know what was going on in town? Maybe Bynum and friends? Also nice to see the Air Canada A320 there, as well as a US Coast Guard G5! Air Canada was probably the Blue Jays. Oh it was definitely the Blue Jays. I just wonder who all the others were.
July 12, 201311 yr Oh it was definitely the Blue Jays. I just wonder who all the others were. The Cavs just introduced Jarrett Jack and Earl Clark to the public. They likely flew in last night.
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