February 24, 200916 yr Yes, regular police would be great. But your same argument is the same argument used by the pro public transit crowd. Enough Americans aren't used to public transit, but once they do get used to it, they will enjoy and understand the benefits. That is the way I see it. To me, and maybe I am in the minority, when I was waiting for the BRT at E.13 last night around 10,15, when no one else was around, I would have felt 100000000000000000000000x more comfortable if a transit cop were there with me.
February 24, 200916 yr I'm all for the extra police presence. What's the benefit of the military style arms?
February 24, 200916 yr Part of the reason some people might not like heavily armed cops running around is that certain groups have historically poor relations with the police, going back several generations. There are trust issues. Some of those issues may still be legit. I would prefer a happy medium of more cops with standard armament. Maybe a few more shotguns. You can end a lot of confrontations just by cocking one. But really, a cop could be standing there holding a flower and still prevent a lot of trouble. Just being there is the main thing.
February 24, 200916 yr I also wish that we had police or some kind of guardsmen walking around fully armed. They do in Israel and you feel completely safe as a result. I disagree. Seeing 'military" police makes me feel as the area is "unsafe". Seeing such heavily police protection sends as message that and in order to protect those living, visiting, working, going to school in that area you need to have such drastic law forces out and about. Simply having more police "eyes" on the street and people using common sense will cut down on things like this. I agree, seeing a bunch of military police patrolling an area always makes me feel a little uneasy. Anyone who's been to Venezuela, Colombia, Nicaragua, El Salvador or Honduras knows what I'm talking about. Although it would be nice to have a rent-a-cop standing at the door of every business like in El Salvador.... There'd be lots more eyes then!
February 24, 200916 yr I think a lot of it has to do with what you're used to seeing. Americans aren't used to seeing heavily armed guards. I think that it would be disruptive to people because of that, not reassuring. I also have to ask if there is a practical benefit. It's not as if these guys outgunned some police officers who only had 9mm's. There just weren't any police there at all. Let's get more police, period. Submachine guns or assault rifles are overkill. 100% agreed!
February 24, 200916 yr I dont care what they do. If the military were temporary to get those bums out of that area, then do that. I think the national guard should a city civilian audit. Sweep through every area of the city, collect their drugs and weapons, bust up some suckers up and allow us to take back our streets. Honestly, how many times do you hear that phrase "take back your streets"...the innocent people cant do anything when they are dealing with armed animals that dont regard life.
February 24, 200916 yr I dont care what they do. If the military were temporary to get those bums out of that area, then do that. I think the national guard should a city civilian audit. Sweep through every area of the city, collect their drugs and weapons, bust up some suckers up and allow us to take back our streets. Honestly, how many times do you hear that phrase "take back your streets"...the innocent people cant do anything when they are dealing with armed animals that dont regard life. That would only be affective if the sweep happens simultaneously across the city! If not the drugs/criminals move before and after the sweep. Come on folks, lets be realistic.
February 24, 200916 yr MTS, are you trying to pick a fight? Believeland didn't say anything about a prolonged, slow sweep. I'm sure he agrees with you.
February 24, 200916 yr ^ i dont care, at some point you have to do whatever it takes. People that dont respect life need to be stopped...thats why we are in a war right now...to protect us...well...these creeps are just as bad as the folks in Afghanistan that want to light us up.
February 24, 200916 yr You're a criminal, do you: A) target the area that has a heave police presence; or B) target the area with a low police presence Talk about being realistic, I think this is a no-brainer.
February 24, 200916 yr Alas, police "presence" doesn't always mean much. Most of the police I see inside Tower City are not approaching the big groups of unsupervised youths, who apparently are not supposed to be there given the "family" policy thing they supposedly instituted, but instead stand next to each other yakking and doing not much else.
February 24, 200916 yr ^I don't know if the two situations are comparable, since I haven't heard any reports of violence or even intimidation since the implementation of that new policy. Now outside is a different story, but at least inside the mall, I haven't seen anything that would make me the slightest bit wary.
February 24, 200916 yr Folks... the topic... it's neither Jerusalem, M-16s, Batman, Venezuela, or whatever raving lunatic ideas you might come up with. Want to go off-topic? The next perp gets a week off - you want to talk crime? How about the fact that grown adults can't grasp the concept of "think before you post" clevelandskyscrapers.com Cleveland Skyscrapers on Instagram
February 24, 200916 yr I am crossing my fingers this counts as being on-topic... :wink: This was Cimperman's response to my email. I give him credit for responding. Mr "Palijandro" (I edited this), Thank you for your email. I am so sorry for this horrible, senseless tragedy, a dark day this is. My prayers and thoughts are with the families of these two young men, and with you... (edit). Nothing I or anyone can say will bring peace to this crime, but I do want you to know that the police are working every effort,lead,angle to catch who did this. If my remarks angered you I apologize. This wasn't my intent, the magnitude of this shooting is too much in and of itself, and I know that, and I want you to know that I know that. A community meeting has been scheduled next week and the Chief of Police and others will be on hand to discuss their work on this case and on safety and crime matters as well. If you would like more information, please let me know. Thanks for your concern about the firebombing at my home this summer, I appreciate your thoughtfulness. If I can be of any assistance, please call my cell # at 216-215-6765. Again please allow me to express my sympathies. Joe Cimperman
February 24, 200916 yr Cleveland police arrest 4 in East 12th Street killing Posted by Mark Puente/Plain Dealer Reporter February 24, 2009 16:43PM CLEVELAND -- Four people have been arrested in the fatal shooting on East 12th Street early Sunday morning, including the gunman who killed a Cleveland Clinic worker and seriously wounded another, police sources said. "The division of police has been vigorously investigating this horrific and brutal attack," Deputy Chief Edward Tomba said. "This investigation continues. We still have witnesses to interview." ... http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/02/police_arrest_four_people_in_e.html
February 24, 200916 yr Cleveland police arrest 4 in East 12th Street killing Posted by Mark Puente/Plain Dealer Reporter February 24, 2009 16:43PM CLEVELAND -- Four people have been arrested in the fatal shooting on East 12th Street early Sunday morning, including the gunman who killed a Cleveland Clinic worker and seriously wounded another, police sources said. http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/02/police_arrest_four_people_in_e.html That's great news. The "gotcha" media outlet here in town is reporting that one of those arrested was a juvenile. Was he at Scorchers too? http://www.woio.com/global/story.asp?s=9898569
February 24, 200916 yr Very good news. Still does nothing to bring those poor kids back, though. **Has Scorchers come out with any statement?
February 24, 200916 yr Let's give it up to the police, they certainly worked fast Agreed, although I bet the one who turned himself in had something to do with it, too.
February 24, 200916 yr Very good news. Still does nothing to bring those poor kids back, though. **Has Scorchers come out with any statement? I would advise them NOT to. At least not until the suspects and more importantly the victim has made a statement.
February 25, 200916 yr http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/02/cleveland_police_chase_car_int.html Cleveland police arrest suspect in Tremont after chase Posted by Mark Puente February 24, 2009 22:58PM Categories: Breaking News, Real Time News Emmet Smith/The Plain Dealer Police respond to a robbery in Cleveland's Tremont neighborhood Tuesday night. UPDATED at 11:55 p.m. Cleveland police arrested a man after a chase through two West Side neighborhoods following a robbery at the Ty Fun Thai Bistro restaurant in Tremont. More than 20 police cars were involved in the chase, which ended when the Chevrolet Geo crashed about 10:50 p.m at West 7th Street and Jefferson Avenue, about a half-block from Ty Fun. ... ------------------------------------ http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/02/teen_accused_in_fatal_shooting.html CLEVELAND -- The Cleveland teen accused to fatally shooting a man near East 12th Street early Sunday morning has a long juvenile record with arrests dating to when he was 11 years old. The boy, now 17, was arrested Tuesday night. He will appear in Cuyahoga County Juvenile Court this afternoon, to be arraigned on charges that he killed Jeremy Pechanec and wounded Jory Aebly. ... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Has anyone heard of any vigils being held or anything? I drove by the area 2x last night and just felt nothing but the utmost rage and hatred.
February 25, 200916 yr From cleveland.com Teen accused in fatal downtown Cleveland shooting has long juvenile record Posted by mtobin February 25, 2009 12:15PM CLEVELAND -- The Cleveland teen accused to fatally shooting a man near East 12th Street early Sunday morning has a long juvenile record with arrests dating to when he was 11 years old. More at cleveland.com: http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/02/teen_accused_in_fatal_shooting.html clevelandskyscrapers.com Cleveland Skyscrapers on Instagram
February 25, 200916 yr From cleveland.com Teen accused in fatal downtown Cleveland shooting has long juvenile record http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/02/teen_accused_in_fatal_shooting.html Posted by mtobin February 25, 2009 12:15PM CLEVELAND -- The Cleveland teen accused to fatally shooting a man near East 12th Street early Sunday morning has a long juvenile record with arrests dating to when he was 11 years old. WTF? This is one is going to give the idiots on cleveland.bomb a lot to talk about. As soon as the race and neighborhood of this person is mentioned, all will be profiled as he is. There are some serious F-ups here. Why was this child not accounted for and why is it he has such a long record. I'm upset and so sorry for the families has suffered at the hands of a child. A F'n child!
February 25, 200916 yr Now are you not already jumping to conclusions? How do you know he's not white? I will wait to make an analysis until more information is released. The one thing I will say is that this definitely is a blow to those who believe in rehabilitation, even for juveniles.
February 25, 200916 yr I'm a bit of a softy when it comes to prison sentences for lots of crimes (particularly non-violent drug crimes), but if you're arrested in March 2008 for carrying a concealed weapon, unless it's a trumped up charge for carrying a swiss army knife, I really don't want you back on the street already in Feb. 2009.
February 25, 200916 yr What kind of F'd up life do you have that you start getting into serious trouble at 11 and you aren't even a legal adult before you are involved in killing people? I mean seriously, this is screwed up. Then again, so is PD writing. "...Cleveland teen accused to shooting..." ???
February 25, 200916 yr I've gotten to the point where I want them locked up and, if released, ankle bracelets for 3 years.
February 25, 200916 yr Now are you not already jumping to conclusions? How do you know he's not white? I will wait to make an analysis until more information is released. The one thing I will say is that this definitely is a blow to those who believe in rehabilitation, even for juveniles. I don't mention race anywhere. and regardless, as a kid, they'll label his family uncaring barbarians. I'm a believer that some people cannot be helped because they don't want to be helped.
February 25, 200916 yr I see. I agree, some kids are unparentable. However, if this kid does not have a father in his life, I think that is where some of the blame should lie. We'll see.
February 25, 200916 yr At 17 he can be tried as an adult, especially of the seriousness of the crime?
February 25, 200916 yr http://ohiobar.org/pub/lycu/index.asp?articleid=451 A child, defined as a person under age 18, can be tried as an adult only if the child was age 14 or older at the time of the offense. Nearly all such cases begin in juvenile court with a felony charge. The court must conduct hearings and make certain determinations before the child can be transferred to another court for trial. The process is sometimes referred to as bindover, transfer, waiver, or relinquishment proceedings. In some cases, the child must be tried as an adult. In others, the child can be tried as an adult only if the court orders it. Q: When is trial as an adult required? A: Trial as an adult is mandatory in certain very serious cases: (1) when the charge is aggravated murder or murder, and the child is 16 or 17 and has been committed to an Ohio Department of Youth Services (DYS) facility; and (2) when the charge is a certain serious felony offense, and the child is age 16 or 17 and either has previously been committed to a DYS facility or used a firearm while committing the offense. If the court finds that these conditions exist and that there is probable cause to believe that the child committed the offense, the child must stand trial as an adult. There are also other limited circumstances in which the child must stand trial as an adult. Q: When can a court decide whether or not to try a child as an adult? A: When the law does not require transfer, the court has a choice whether to try a child as an adult, but may do so only if the child was 14 years or older at the time of a felony offense. First, the court conducts a hearing to determine if there is probable cause that the child committed the offense. Next, the court orders an investigation, including a mental examination, and conducts another hearing, often called an “amenability” hearing, to decide whether or not the child is likely to be rehabilitated within the juvenile system, and whether or not the community’s safety requires that the child be subject to adult penalties. Some of the factors the court considers are age, physical and mental maturity, past attempts and future potential for rehabilitation, harm suffered by the victim, use of a firearm, and public safety.
February 25, 200916 yr I know this is going to sound heartless, but this is a case where the crime should mirror the punishment. No jail, we shouldn't pay to keep this person alive. All should be given the death penalty. The only person who would get a small bit of leniency is the person who turned himself in. I don't want want to hear any BS about how they were abused; lived in broken homes; lived in poverty; never had a chance; he's a good kid/brother/father, blah...blah..blah. You know right from wrong and I say, put them down.
February 25, 200916 yr Well no kidding. There are probably a lot of crack-babies who did not blow someone's brains out, either. That doesn't mean it's not relevant. I think what MD is trying to say is, whether or not he lived in a two parent home, he should have known better or been fully aware of what he was doing (and had been doing in the past) is wrong!
February 25, 200916 yr Probably lived with his grandma. edit/// What happened to the other victim as of now?
February 25, 200916 yr ^Fair enough. Maybe he was just a bad apple that was wired in a very messed up fashion. However, if he is fatherless, maybe this lack of a positive male role-model played some role. At any rate, have any vigils been planned or anything?
February 25, 200916 yr I know this is going to sound heartless, but this is a case where the crime should mirror the punishment. No jail, we shouldn't pay to keep this person alive. All should be given the death penalty. The only person who would get a small bit of leniency is the person who turned himself in. I don't want want to hear any BS about how they were abused; lived in broken homes; lived in poverty; never had a chance; he's a good kid/brother/father, blah...blah..blah. You know right from wrong and I say, put them down. Agreed. Im a libertarian solely because of this issue. I dont think if you take someone elses life without just cause, you deserve to be in this society. I try to fathom this as much as I can, but I still dont think I can even come close to feel what it must be like to lose someone in that fashion.
February 25, 200916 yr I'm against the death penalty, but if any of my love ones were murdered I'd want them dead but would still be against it nevertheless. "I have forgiven him." I'm against abortion as well. "Have the baby I'm so happy" mumbling !@#!@$ PS I would love the child before she was born
February 25, 200916 yr Friday vigil scheduled for E. 12th St. shooting victims Posted by Michael Sangiacomo/Plain Dealer Reporter February 25, 2009 14:04PM Categories: Breaking News, Crime Scott Shaw / The Plain Dealer Enlarged photos of Jory Aebly, 26, and Jeremy Pechanec, 28, at a news conference Monday at MetroHealth Medical Center, where both men were taken after they were shot in the head early Sunday morning outside a bar in Cleveland. More at cleveland.com
February 25, 200916 yr 27, 25, 19, 17 Just making wild guess, but it sounds gang related with the mix of ages, young one seeming to be one of the shooters. Okay I'll stop.
February 25, 200916 yr Would you watch it? Or even tie the straps down, walk him to it, or drop the lever?
February 25, 200916 yr Would you watch it? Or even tie the straps down, walk him to it, or drop the lever? I could watch! 27, 25, 19, 17 Just making wild guess, but it sounds gang related with the mix of ages, young one seeming to be one of the shooters. Okay I'll stop. Seems Drug and Gang related.
February 25, 200916 yr CLEVELAND Teen accused in fatal East 12th Street shooting denies charges Posted by Rachel Dissell/Plain Dealer Reporter February 25, 2009 14:58PM -- http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/02/teen_accused_in_fatal_east_12t.html
February 25, 200916 yr Would you watch it? Or even tie the straps down, walk him to it, or drop the lever? In a heartbeat! Pun intended! If we had appropriate punishments for crimes, we would have no need for hate crime legislation. You beat somebody, or drag them behind your car, it shouldn't matter WHY you did it, the fact that it was done should be enough to punish appropriately all the way up to and including execution.
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