I hate graffiti.  However, what I hate even more is Judges that do not do their job and cave to public pressure when the evidence is not there to support the charges.  It's the duty of the prosecutor's office to build the case, not the judge.  The protests should be in front of Bob Mason's office on this one.

Wow I can't believe they actually caught HEK. I saw that dude's tag freaking everywhere. While I don't condone overly harsh punishments, it seems like they should've at least gotten some sort of restitution from them.

Not knowing much about this case, but knowing something about the prosecutor's office, I agree with Hts44121.  If we want crime punished we need to prosecute it effectively.  My understanding is that our current prosecutor is a fantastic golfer.  One of the best around... at golf.

Both HEK and MAK should have been given harsher punishments.  If anyone has been through this city (at least the east side), chances are you've seen their tags somewhere.  They'll be back out there tagging soon enough...

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/04/woman_attacked_and_store_robbe.html

 

Woman attacked and store robbed inside Asia Plaza in Cleveland

Posted by Stan Donaldson April 17, 2009 19:42PM

Categories: Breaking News, Crime

Cleveland Police said a shopkeeper in Asia Plaza was severely injured Friday afternoon after a robber entered a floral store and beat her before he got away with items.

 

Sgt. Jason Edens said police were called around 6:21 p.m. for a report on a woman who was found unconscious inside Floral City, inside of the Asian Plaza at 2999 Payne Ave.

 

...

 

----------------------------------

 

Unfortunate. I hope thugs don't destroy a budding community.

 

Gun violence on East Side of Cleveland worries Police Chief Michael McGrath

Cleveland police chief asks residents' help

Monday, April 20, 2009

Mark Puente, Plain Dealer Reporter

 

 

A recent spike in gun violence in three East Side neighborhoods has Cleveland Police Chief Michael McGrath concerned about the summer months, when crime usually peaks.

 

McGrath and other city leaders addressed about 60 people at a community meeting Wednesday evening at a church on East 82nd Street. McGrath urged them to help stop the "senseless, reckless" shootings in the St. Clair-Superior, Hough and Glenville neighborhoods.

 

 

More at Cleveland.com http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/cuyahoga/1240216354148990.xml&coll=2

I'm glad that the city is working on efforts other than just getting these kids off the street and throwing them in jail. That won't take care of the inherent problem.

 

I think they need to see that there's a better alternative to their criminal activity. It might sound cheesy, but I think outreach programs have a much deeper potential for impact than just having more police. The police are a necessary component, but it won't stop the root of the issue, which I think is unfortunately much deeper.

"You have to go to the cause of it," Conwell said. "We have to start talking about it."

 

Having fathers actually play a role in the lives of their children would be a step in the right direction.  Of course, no one will say it.  For if you do, Jesse Jackson will "rip your nuts off."

Then the fathers need to make money.  That always gets lost in the fatherhood discussion... how many fathers are even welcome in their families if they can't provide?  That's only been their role for 10,000 years.  Jobs have rapidly vanished from these neighborhoods and from the nation at large.  Add in the increasing upfront cost of the average career, and you have a recipe for fathers being socially neutered-- especially young fathers.  They aren't going to jump back into their traditional role without a return to a more traditional availability of income.

Then the fathers need to make money.  That always gets lost in the fatherhood discussion... how many fathers are even welcome in their families if they can't provide?  That's only been their role for 10,000 years.  Jobs have rapidly vanished from these neighborhoods and from the nation at large.  Add in the increasing upfront cost of the average career, and you have a recipe for fathers being socially neutered-- especially young fathers.  They aren't going to jump back into their traditional role without a return to a more traditional availability of income.

 

I completely disagree.  Money has nothing to do with fatherhood.  I know you hate the immigrant comparison, but those men were poor as hell.  What pushed a lot of them through was family.  And I disagree with the "fathers not being welcome because of no money."  I think that is baseless.

 

And also, you're skipping over the whole point.  Do not have the freaking kid if you a) aren't ready; b) if you can't provide; c) if you are not going to be responsible/care for it.

 

I do not understand how you can say that fathers shouldn't play a role simply because they have no jobs. 

 

Are you saying it's acceptable that fathers aren't around, or that it should be understood?

"You have to go to the cause of it," Conwell said. "We have to start talking about it."

 

Having fathers actually play a role in the lives of their children would be a step in the right direction.  Of course, no one will say it.  For if you do, Jesse Jackson will "rip your nuts off."

 

Oh don't play into that "where is (jackson, mccoy, sharpton or cosby)" BS.  There are plenty of men of color who are actively involved in their children's lives.  The media concentrates on those fatherless children all to often and/or children who do the wrong thing and the entire community is perceived as "bad".

 

I'm not going to say there aren't problems, but lets look at the plain dealer, when ever there is a crime they say "eastside" not a crime happened in Central, or AsiaTown or Detroit-Shoreway.  Just Eastside, which is why so many people in the region think the entire eastside is full of dangerous, uneducated, unemployed black people and that every house is dilapidated and in foreclosure.  When the problem is many people who comment have never spent any time in the area.  Example, when my cousin hosted a cocktail party a coworker asked if the neighborhood was "safe?"

 

I know a few people that attend several community board meeting in that area, the problem is there is no person who can unite them.  Thats all I'm going to say.

 

Then the fathers need to make money.  That always gets lost in the fatherhood discussion... how many fathers are even welcome in their families if they can't provide?  That's only been their role for 10,000 years.  Jobs have rapidly vanished from these neighborhoods and from the nation at large.  Add in the increasing upfront cost of the average career, and you have a recipe for fathers being socially neutered-- especially young fathers.  They aren't going to jump back into their traditional role without a return to a more traditional availability of income.

 

I completely disagree.  Money has nothing to do with fatherhood.  I know you hate the immigrant comparison, but those men were poor as hell.  What pushed a lot of them through was family.  And I disagree with the "fathers not being welcome because of no money."  I think that is baseless.

 

And also, you're skipping over the whole point.  Do not have the freaking kid if you a) aren't ready; b) if you can't provide; c) if you are not going to be responsible/care for it.

 

I do not understand how you can say that fathers shouldn't play a role simply because they have no jobs. 

 

Are you saying it's acceptable that fathers aren't around, or that it should be understood?

 

I agree.  There are precautions and if you're going to have sex wrap it up, but this also shows how many fatherless children are out there.  Young girls who don't have fathers to protect counsel them, don't know how sneaky boys are.  In the 80's early 90s we had way to many children having children.

"You have to go to the cause of it," Conwell said. "We have to start talking about it."

 

Having fathers actually play a role in the lives of their children would be a step in the right direction.  Of course, no one will say it.  For if you do, Jesse Jackson will "rip your nuts off."

 

Oh don't play into that "where is (jackson, mccoy, sharpton or cosby)" BS.  There are plenty of men of color who are actively involved in their children's lives.  The media concentrates on those fatherless children all to often and/or children who do the wrong thing and the entire community is perceived as "bad".

 

MTS, there is a disporportionate rate of black children being born to single-mothers (roughly 72%).  There is nothing in that fact that says there aren't plenty of black men that are great fathers.  It simply says there is an epidemic going on that needs to be stopped.

 

There were also huge increases in single mothers among whites and Lations.  There is a problem in America.  We have the highest rate of children being born to single mothers.  We also have the highest prison population.  While I am not saying that is the exact reason, it certainly has to play a role.

Money has nothing to do with fatherhood?  I disagree.  Even if you have a lawn, you can't just let your baby go out and graze on it.  You have to procure food and other expensive baby supplies.  For time immemorial, fathers have been judged on their ability to do this.  This isn't some crazy theory of mine-- it's a pillar of human civilization.  Fathers go out and bring back food.  It doesn't matter what country or time period you're in, that's what they do. 

 

Again I don't think the immigrant comparison is apt.  When you get off a boat with your family in a strange land where you can't hardly communicate outside the family, and it's basically a psychadelic experience for all concerned, you're probably going to remain cohesive for at least a generation regardless of financial challenges.  None of that is in play for the community we're discussing.  Even when it was, the decision to separate families was made for them (which may still be relevant, but there I'm reaching).

 

Of course you shouldn't have kids too early, or when you can't afford them, or when you have no intention of staying together.  But those kind of mistakes happen even at the governor of Alaska level.  The difference is poverty.  Are you telling me the mothers we're talking about aren't going to drop the unemployed father as soon as she gets eyes from some dude with more bling?  I'm terribly sorry but I think she will.  And that's half the fatherhood problem.  It takes two to tango.

"You have to go to the cause of it," Conwell said. "We have to start talking about it."

 

Having fathers actually play a role in the lives of their children would be a step in the right direction.  Of course, no one will say it.  For if you do, Jesse Jackson will "rip your nuts off."

 

Oh don't play into that "where is (jackson, mccoy, sharpton or cosby)" BS.  There are plenty of men of color who are actively involved in their children's lives.  The media concentrates on those fatherless children all to often and/or children who do the wrong thing and the entire community is perceived as "bad".

 

MTS, there is a disproportionate rate of black children being born to single-mothers (roughly 72%).  There is nothing in that fact that says there aren't plenty of black men that are great fathers.  It simply says there is an epidemic going on that needs to be stopped.

 

There were also huge increases in single mothers among whites and Lations.  There is a problem in America.  We have the highest rate of children being born to single mothers.  We also have the highest prison population.  While I am not saying that is the exact reason, it certainly has to play a role.

 

Yes, I'm aware of the facts you state, but it's still leads to negative perceptions I listed.

 

There are a lot of white people who are afraid of people of color, especially Latin and black men, simply because they are people of color.

 

I can't tell you how many times I've had a white woman move her bag or give me "that look".

 

 

I get that look from white women too!!!!

I get that look from white women too!!!!

 

Well Smeagol those looks are for different reasons!  :P

Money has nothing to do with fatherhood?  I disagree.  Even if you have a lawn, you can't just let your baby go out and graze on it.  You have to procure food and other expensive baby supplies.  For time immemorial, fathers have been judged on their ability to do this.  This isn't some crazy theory of mine-- it's a pillar of human civilization.  Fathers go out and bring back food.  It doesn't matter what country or time period you're in, that's what they do. 

 

Again I don't think the immigrant comparison is apt.  When you get off a boat with your family in a strange land where you can't hardly communicate outside the family, and it's basically a psychadelic experience for all concerned, you're probably going to remain cohesive for at least a generation regardless of financial challenges.  None of that is in play for the community we're discussing.  Even when it was, the decision to separate families was made for them (which may still be relevant, but there I'm reaching).

 

Of course you shouldn't have kids too early, or when you can't afford them, or when you have no intention of staying together.  But those kind of mistakes happen even at the governor of Alaska level.  The difference is poverty.  Are you telling me the mothers we're talking about aren't going to drop the unemployed father as soon as she gets eyes from some dude with more bling?  I'm terribly sorry but I think she will.  And that's half the fatherhood problem.  It takes two to tango.

 

Men being judged on their ability to bring home the bacon is an archaic notion, imo.  Of course it still somewhat persists, but unless you are one of the real housewives of Orange County, ATL, or wherever else they find superficial invalids, I do not think it is as important as you make it out to be. 

 

Regardless, I just flatly disagree that not having money allows you to not be a father.  While I realize a child needs food and pampers, above all things, it needs guidance and love.  Essentially, what you are saying is that if you are a man and you father a child, if you cannot provide for the child, then it lets you off the hook for being an irresponsible fool.  It is one thing if you are a fu*k up, but completely another if you are fu*king up another person (in this case, your child).

 

I also disagree with your denial of the comparison.  You are right, what made immigrant families strong was that their shared existance as a minority in a different world.  I would argue that the same situation exists.  While  not immigrants, they certainly are a minority in a country that has not always been so kind to them. 

 

And to bring up the Palin argument is flawed, as my generalizations derive from overwhelming statistics, while the Palin saga (whild disgusting for the different ways the media has portrayed it; imagine if it were Sasha at the age of 17 who was pregnant) is an isolated incident.  I am not saying it never happens, just not nearly as frequently.

 

I do agree, that poverty plays a role.  However, I disagree on the role it plays.  Here, poverty is part of a sub-culture that is dysfunctional, similar to what is found in Appalachia.  I think all these things run together, as opposed to one being the cause of the other.

 

And I agree it takes two to tango.  However, that was never part of the original argument. 

 

 

 

"You have to go to the cause of it," Conwell said. "We have to start talking about it."

 

Having fathers actually play a role in the lives of their children would be a step in the right direction.  Of course, no one will say it.  For if you do, Jesse Jackson will "rip your nuts off."

 

Oh don't play into that "where is (jackson, mccoy, sharpton or cosby)" BS.  There are plenty of men of color who are actively involved in their children's lives.  The media concentrates on those fatherless children all to often and/or children who do the wrong thing and the entire community is perceived as "bad".

 

MTS, there is a disproportionate rate of black children being born to single-mothers (roughly 72%).  There is nothing in that fact that says there aren't plenty of black men that are great fathers.  It simply says there is an epidemic going on that needs to be stopped.

 

There were also huge increases in single mothers among whites and Lations.  There is a problem in America.  We have the highest rate of children being born to single mothers.  We also have the highest prison population.  While I am not saying that is the exact reason, it certainly has to play a role.

 

Yes, I'm aware of the facts you state, but it's still leads to negative perceptions I listed.

 

There are a lot of white people who are afraid of people of color, especially Latin and black men, simply because they are people of color.

 

I can't tell you how many times I've had a white woman move her bag or give me "that look".

 

 

 

I understand what you are saying, but I think we retard process by "shhhing" disturbing statistics out of fear of how some people may react.  Blacks notoriously are fearful of cops (and for good reason).  Presenting evidence that cops mistreat blacks more than other races will only add to this level of mistrust.  However, I think it would be completely wrong to try and cover up these facts out of fear that it will lead to even a greater mistrust.  Instead, by talking about it out in the open, ideas will be generated that could hopefully lead to a more positive directions.

 

"You have to go to the cause of it," Conwell said. "We have to start talking about it."

 

Having fathers actually play a role in the lives of their children would be a step in the right direction.  Of course, no one will say it.  For if you do, Jesse Jackson will "rip your nuts off."

 

Oh don't play into that "where is (jackson, mccoy, sharpton or cosby)" BS.  There are plenty of men of color who are actively involved in their children's lives.  The media concentrates on those fatherless children all to often and/or children who do the wrong thing and the entire community is perceived as "bad".

 

MTS, there is a disproportionate rate of black children being born to single-mothers (roughly 72%).  There is nothing in that fact that says there aren't plenty of black men that are great fathers.  It simply says there is an epidemic going on that needs to be stopped.

 

There were also huge increases in single mothers among whites and Lations.  There is a problem in America.  We have the highest rate of children being born to single mothers.  We also have the highest prison population.  While I am not saying that is the exact reason, it certainly has to play a role.

 

Yes, I'm aware of the facts you state, but it's still leads to negative perceptions I listed.

 

There are a lot of white people who are afraid of people of color, especially Latin and black men, simply because they are people of color.

 

I can't tell you how many times I've had a white woman move her bag or give me "that look".

 

 

 

I understand what you are saying, but I think we retard process by "shhhing" disturbing statistics out of fear of how some people may react.  Blacks notoriously are fearful of cops (and for good reason).  Presenting evidence that cops mistreat blacks more than other races will only add to this level of mistrust.  However, I think it would be completely wrong to try and cover up these facts out of fear that it will lead to even a greater mistrust.  Instead, by talking about it out in the open, ideas will be generated that could hopefully lead to a more positive directions.

 

I wholeheartedly agree, but when the police force has a overwhelming thought (I speak from experience) that men of color are guilty before trial, it wont change.

 

The problem is elected officials, Community leaders, the service forces and concerned citizens are not on the same page.

 

open up dialogue is a start but the culture and mindset of some police needs to change as well.  This is why I'm against having police live outside the city border as they could possible become even more detached from the very neighborhoods they are hired to serve and protect.

The root of the problem is lack of responsibility, whether its fatherhood, crime, getting a job, etc. Doesn't matter if you're black, brown, blue, purple, whatever.

The root of the problem is lack of responsibility and common sense, whether its fatherhood, crime, getting a job, etc. Doesn't matter if you're black, brown, blue, purple, whatever.

 

Correction

Palijandro7, your points here all make good sense.  I still disagree with most of them. 

 

On the immigrant comparison, let's examine the fact that "immigrant" families from Africa were ripped apart as soon as they got off the boat.  It would take an entire book to flesh out the connection that has with today, but given how crucial family ties were for the first generations of European immigrants, it's hard to claim that there couldn't possibly be a connection.  You're not the only one who's made good arguments equating the two scenarios, but I am at this point unable to buy into any such arguments.  For all the similarities, I really think the differences are at the heart of the matter.

 

I think it would be an interesting study to find out how many unemployed fathers in these communities willfully left their families vs. how many were kicked out.  I'd love to tell you about the case I'm doing at work right now but I can't.  It really speaks to this issue. 

 

I think we're arguing two different things here.  You're saying individual poverty doesn't excuse absent fathers, and I completely agree with you.  My point was that they often don't get the chance, because the mom wants to be provided for too.  If you can't, you ain't a man.  This is often much more important to the mom than the kids are.  I don't think that traditional mentality has subsided whatsoever, except in somewhat elite and progressive circles. 

I would point to the fact that blacks had lower levels of divorce and children born to single-mothers than whites in the 1920's, which was the height of the KKK, Jim Crow, etc.

 

Regardless kind Sir, we will agree to disagree.

^palijandro is right.  Although Jim Crow, segregation, separate but equal, were all sad policies in a sorry period in our history, the black family, culture, and communities thrived.

I would point to the fact that blacks had lower levels of divorce and children born to single-mothers than whites in the 1920's, which was the height of the KKK, Jim Crow, etc.

 

^palijandro is right.  Although Jim Crow, segregation, separate but equal, were all sad policies in a sorry period in our history, the black family, culture, and communities thrived.

 

Thrived so much they systematically burnt cities down in anger over how much they were thriving.  What you're pointing to is an early 20th century effort by the AA community to integrate and have a place at the table.  What we've been seeing more recently is what happens when something as big as that plus the civil rights movement plus the riots is neutered by "de facto" policy reversals and the immensely effective counter-tactic of sprawl.  And do we agree now that females aren't getting their share of the blame for all the unattached males?

I never said females should be absolved.  However, they should be blamed for having coitus unprotected.  Maybe they deserve a bit of blame for fathers running off, but I think that it's minimal.  I generally focus on fathers because it is ALWAYS the mother who ends up raising the kid.

not always

Side note, some positive news today:

 

 

Task force says raids, arrest of 14 broke up Cleveland-based drug ring

Thursday, April 23, 2009

Gabriel Baird, Plain Dealer Reporter

 

A Cleveland-based drug ring was broken up Wednesday, local and federal authorities said.

 

More than 50 law enforcement officers raided about eight locations throughout the city, arresting 14 people named in a 40-count federal indictment.

 

More at cleveland.com

http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/cuyahoga/1240475418234500.xml&coll=2

Sh*t jus tryin to make that money yo.

 

Nice job by the task force to get these scum off the street. Keep it up and keep raking in the drug dealing, gun waving, get money fast never get an education scum holding parts of the city hostage.

More than 60 Clevelanders become trained peacemakers to quell violence this summer

by Donna J. Miller/Plain Dealer Reporter

Tuesday June 02, 2009, 1:11 PM

 

 

City of Cleveland

Peacemakers and their families packed the City Hall Rotunda Monday evening.

 

 

CLEVELAND — More than 60 people joined the city's Peacemakers Alliance Monday during a ceremony at City Hall.

 

The 62 citizen volunteers learned in a dozen training sessions ways to keep their neighborhoods safer.

 

 

more at Cleveland.com http://www.cleveland.com/crime/index.ssf/2009/06/more_than_50_clevelanders_beca.html

Good luck to em all and stay safe!!

The city government should do far more things to encourage this kind of proactiveness i.e. massive tax incentives.  In one of the other boards, I talked about the need to deputize and perhaps even arm civilian groups that are deputized and monitoring bad areas (think Little Brother).  Well, this is like a much less radical version of that thought, and I am all for it!

I am grateful for their service and hard work, but please don't arm them...I do think there is any evidence things willl be safer (if you think so please provide citations)

The City "arming" private citizens is out of the question.  The last thing the City needs is a bunch of vigilantes running around here under the color of law.  Massive liability concerns.

Cleveland death row inmate Darryl Durr gets execution date

 

Posted by Reginald Fields/Columbus Bureau Chief June 03, 2009 11:28AM

 

CLEVELAND — Darryl Durr, a Cleveland man who has been on death row for 20 years, was given an execution date of Nov. 10 by the Ohio Supreme Court. Durr, 45, was convicted of kidnapping, raping and murdering a 16-year-old Elyria girl, Angel Vincent, in 1988.

 

More information at cleveland.com:

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/06/cleveland_death_row_inmate_get.html

 

 

Let it be known I AM NOT Devildog51 from the cleveland.com comments:

 

This is something ive been a fan of for a while now, but can we please allow for public executions to be visible in this country and put them in public square. Scum like this need to see what will happen to them when they commit a crime. Maybe it doesnt solve all the problems, but doing these executions behind closed doors, with only a few people present, in an "as humanely" way possible, making sure not to take any rights or freedoms away from these trash is not helping either. The second you even think of taking another human beings life you are stripped of your rights, you dont belong here and have no reason to live in this world anymore.

...senseless

 

West 130th St. convenience store owner stabbed to death in robbery

Posted by Stan Donaldson June 12, 2009 16:19PM

 

Maher Dayem, the 39-year-old owner of a West 130th Street convenience store, was stabbed to death this afternoon during a robbery at the store, Cleveland police said. Police in a nearby patrol car were flagged down by witnesses to the altercation in J&J's Food & Deli, and arrested Bobby A. King, 54, of Cleveland for suspicion in the stabbing, said Lt. Thomas Stacho, the department spokesman. Stacho said King was in the store when police arrived. Dayem, who lived in North Royalton, died in the store.

 

continued at>>>>>>

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/06/maher_dayem_the_39yearold_owne.html

 

I swear, people are animals.

 

"Don't want to sell me beer?  Let me stab and kill you."

 

To me, this is the difference between suburban crime and city crime.  Bankers might rob you blind and force your whole street to go under in foreclosure, while city hoodlums will flat kill you and chase most of the honest citizens out.  Pick your poison I suppose. 

 

Is it strange that, while I find Enron type crime repugnant and all involved should be thrown in prison, I find this stuff even worse?  Enron destroyed people financially, but at least the people were left breathing. 

 

Not sure if I even agree with my own assessment on this. 

I have noticed that the PD doesn't seem to be keeping tally of the number of killings in Cleveland this year, does anyone know what that number is so far this year and how it compares to recent years?

I have noticed that the PD doesn't seem to be keeping tally of the number of killings in Cleveland this year, does anyone know what that number is so far this year and how it compares to recent years?

 

it's not linked well on their site, but if you scroll down on this page: http://www.cleveland.com/datacentral/index.ssf/crime/

 

there is an interactive map and a list of the details of homocides in northeast ohio this year.  it has updates through june 1, 2009.

 

you can also search on this link for cleveland only:  http://crimereports.com/map/index/?search=+Cleveland+OH

 

select the date frame and crime type to get a count

 

as for your specific question, it was mentioned in the last week in the paper or news, something like 45 or 48 for the year, which is +7 or 8 from this time last year, iirc.

Public executions, let the scum know exactly what will happen to them when they murder innocent, hard working people.

Mindless thug culture. This is why it's important for our cities to hold parents responsible for trash like this. If they aren't going to parent their kids and let them be robotic thugs, at least hit them in the wallet with fines. That way they can't afford to have a problematic child who would likely be another thug.

A man raped and murdered a 16 year old girl... and because of liberal idiots I have been paying to keep this guy alive for the past 20 years?  Imagine the thoughts going through her head as she died... but its OK, we should vote Democrat so we can protect these great people.  Maybe there just wasn't enough welfare for him.  Daryl Durr I hope you burn in hell.

I 2nd that post!!

... but its OK, we should vote Democrat so we can protect these great people.

 

This isn't a Democratic problem, it's an American one.

I would prefer we spend our energy preventing the formation of future monsters like this rather than debating about what should happen to them after a life has been lost. 

I actually don't mind at all talking about what should happen after the fact.  I prefer the outcome of these savages be one that NEVER allows them to repeat such horrific acts, whether it be life...or death.  I am not sure there IS a way to stop these things from happening prior to. 

A man raped and murdered a 16 year old girl... and because of liberal idiots I have been paying to keep this guy alive for the past 20 years?  Imagine the thoughts going through her head as she died... but its OK, we should vote Democrat so we can protect these great people.  Maybe there just wasn't enough welfare for him.  Daryl Durr I hope you burn in hell.

 

Liberal idiots?  The idiocy you speak of is based on our constitution.  But wait, saying our "stupid constitution" doesn't quite have the same ring to it, now does it? 

 

Sorry to go off topic, but I hate ignorant posts.  If you want to say it's "stupid" for this guy to still be alive, fine.  But to equate it with "stupid liberals" sounds like a child.

 

You could argue our constitution forbids capital punishment (no cruel and unusual punishment).  Maybe I am overreaching, but I think any rational human being would equate capital punishment as "cruel."  No, not in the sense that it's "cruel" for a child rapist to be executed, but that the act of killing somone is "cruel."  While conservatives love to throw the "activist" label around for "liberal judges," it is fairly activist to think that the words "no cruel or unusual punishment..." would permit execution. 

 

Sorry to get off topic.  I just hate it when those "stupid liberals" lead the Civil Rights Movement, Women's Suffrage, abolition, etc.  God what stupid dummies (trying to keep the vernacular consistent)!!

 

And just to note, I am liberal and completely for public executions, less time for appeal, etc. 

 

 

And while most of the last group of posts have been off-topic, they've remained (mostly) within the bounds of good taste and enlightened discussion. :-) That said, if we could please get this thread back to the specifics of Cleveland: Crime Discussion, that'd be great.

Note the conjunction between the word " cruel" and the word" unusual".  Both conditions have to be met for a punishment to be unconstitutional.  Lethal injection clearly is not. I an opposed to capital punishment but not or constitutions grounds.

Would the real mom and dad please stand up. :whip:

 

 

Teen accused of raping a woman at knifepoint in University Circle

 

Posted by Donna J. Miller and Stan Donaldson / Plain Dealer Reporters June 22, 2009 12:13PM

 

CLEVELAND -- A 22-year-old graduate student told police she was raped Sunday morning after a teen threatened her with a knife as she sat on the steps of the Cleveland Museum of Art.

 

Police said the rape occurred around 11 a.m. when the boy forced her to go from the steps to the nearby lagoon area.

 

More information at cleveland.com:

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/06/teen_accused_of_raping_a_woman.html

^Dad?  What Dad? 

 

This teen will be tried as an adult and thrown away for a very, very long time.  I feel truly bad for the victim- this is another case of some punk assaulting someone who is actually DOING something with their life. 

 

Our premier cultural destination now has a slant on its image, which could make some think twice about walking the street, or hell, even going to one of the best art museums in the country (if not the world).