I concur.  Thugs have made enjoyment of the Cultural Gardens very difficult, and it is sickening.  I am stunned this happened on the steps of the Art Museum. 

I concur. Thugs have made enjoyment of the Cultural Gardens very difficult, and it is sickening. I am stunned this happened on the steps of the Art Museum.

 

In the middle of the day, nonetheless.

My god, I thought it said 11pm!  11am!  Are you kidding? 

My god, I thought it said 11pm! 11am! Are you kidding?

 

Yeah, we got the Case security alert shortly after it happened (before it made the local news), and I couldn't believe it at first.

There are at least three separate police departments running around that area.  It's not surprising though that someone could be attacked in front of the art museum... there isn't a road or parking lot directly adjacent, so it can't be reached by car, so it can't expect any police protection.

This is unfortunate. However, you can't stop everything. My junior year at Pitt, two girls were raped at gun point on the steps of the Pitt Library. The most disturbing part of this incident is the time of day.

After reading the details of the unfortunate crime including the time (nuts) place, nature and background of the alledged assailant I concluded this is the type of crime that could happen anywhere, including someplace like Westlake...in fact it did last year at Crocker Park.  I certainly do not feel unsafe in that area and never have.

After reading the details of the unfortunate crime including the time (nuts) place, nature and background of the alledged assailant I concluded this is the type of crime that could happen anywhere, including someplace like Westlake...in fact it did last year at Crocker Park.  I certainly do not feel unsafe in that area and never have.

 

Are you saying that crime rates are irrelevant?  Jeffrey Dahmer was from Bath.  Does that make Bath akin to E. Cleveland?  Maybe I'm missing the point of your post.

It's just unfortunate that there weren't any eyewitnesses to the crime. That's the part that astounds me the most. Or, at least, if there were any (I'm sure it would've been specified in the article in terms of a call to the police), it wasn't reported.

 

THIS is one of the reasons that pedestrian activity NEEDS to be encouraged .. and that design standards are so important to attracting more people to an area. It gets more eyes on a street/neighborhood, and it increases safety in general.

This is unfortunate. However, you can't stop everything. My junior year at Pitt, two girls were raped at gun point on the steps of the Pitt Library. The most disturbing part of this incident is the time of day.

 

OK maybe you can't stop everything.  But to leave the newly renovated art museum unguarded, after all this weekend's promotional efforts, is boneheaded.  Police should be pulled from their cars (by the ear lobe if necessary) and made to guard our people, on foot, as they visit core areas of the city... on foot.  Some may note that this is my response to most crime stories.  Police strategies and operating procedures are at fault for what happened here.  These are things we can change.

Police strategies and operating procedures are at fault for what happened here. These are things we can change.

 

I sort of disagree. While increased policing helps, for sure, they can't be everywhere at all times.

 

I personally think more needs to be invested overall in the urban core to bring people back into the urban core so that the responsibility of policing the streets doesn't only rest squarely on police officers' shoulders. People all across the board need to invest in their communities so that this sort of thing happens less often .. not just the police. You can't keep blaming the government for things that go wrong when individuals aren't interested in taking their part. We're all, in a sense, to blame.

Unless we have a Charles Bronson or a Batman among us, it's generally thought unwise to let people other than the police do the policing.  This is something that government needs to get right without outside help.  I'd prefer not to have amateur police running around. 

 

Yes you can blame the govenrnment for failing in core government functions-- just like any of us can be blamed if we don't do our job.  You can blame the people for not electing the right leaders, you can blame them for not holding their leaders accountable, you can even blame them for how they raise their kids.  But you can't blame the people for not doing the cops' jobs for them.  Much of that job is simply being present, being conspicuous, so that people nearby don't look like easy marks. 

 

If we're switching to a wild west format where everyone is expected to enforce the law for themselves... I'm insufficiently armed.  So was that girl at the museum.

Random crime is the hardest to stop. It's so hard to predict. Unless we put officers on every corner, there will always be an opportunity for this kind of stuff to happen.

Unless we have a Charles Bronson or a Batman among us, it's generally thought unwise to let people other than the police do the policing. This is something that government needs to get right without outside help. I'd prefer not to have amateur police running around.

 

Yes you can blame the govenrnment for failing in core government functions-- just like any of us can be blamed if we don't do our job. You can blame the people for not electing the right leaders, you can blame them for not holding their leaders accountable, you can even blame them for how they raise their kids. But you can't blame the people for not doing the cops' jobs for them. Much of that job is simply being present, being conspicuous, so that people nearby don't look like easy marks.

 

If we're switching to a wild west format where everyone is expected to enforce the law for themselves... I'm insufficiently armed. So was that girl at the museum.

 

I'm not saying the cops don't have their place. They're absolutely necessary. I'm not advocating people taking the law into their own hands .. but more people on the street discourages crime, and they can help police by notifying them of criminal activity when a passerby notices bad activity.

But when I think of "random" crime, I think of the guy killing the abortion doctor or the inbred who shot the officer at the Holocaust Museum.  I would not put this in that category. 

Palijandro I thought my point was pretty clear and echoed by other posters.  This was a horrible random event committed by a not too bright criminal (given the facts as reported) that could have happen anywhere including an area that is "perceived" as safe. 

^It is random. There is no pattern or link. Other than patrolling every alley and street corner, how can you stop this kind of crime. At least we know abortion clinics are targeted by extremist. The same can be said for the Holocaust Museum, that's why there were armed guards at the entrance.

Political killings don't seem very random to me.  Those people were chosen as victims for specific reasons, and that doesn't seem likely in the case at hand. 

 

I don't think patrolling every alley and streetcorner is necessary.  You've heard of dark alleys being scary, and we can probably agree they'll always be scary, but it's a little strange to apply the same thinking to Wade Lagoon at 11am.  Come on.  This is a place we need to guard, period.  The stakes are too high for us not to.  Same goes for downtown, same goes for a handful of intersections and commercial strips throughout the city.  It is not asking too much to ask for those areas, where we expect and encourage pedestrian traffic, to receive police protection.  The majority of the city's alleys and intersections are residential, and I would agree that we neither can nor should have police watching all of them.

Like 327 I'd love to see more cops on the beat, but unfortunately with an ever shrinking payroll and resources I doubt we're going to see that any time soon.  I also agree with many on here that you can't be everywhere at once, and unfortunately these dispicable random acts are going to happen from time to time.  Both here, in the suburbs, and pretty much every other place in the country and world...

 

I wonder if this can be some sort of catalyst to get a special improvement district created in UC.  I know Chris Ronayne was said to be working on this.  Having a clean and safe patrol in this area could be such a boon for UC.  They are feet (and eyes) on the street 24/7, sure picking up trash, being kind and resepectful... but also creating a visible presence on a one touch button to police who can be there in a moments notice.  They need to find a way to get this done.  I can't believe that with all the institutions around here that they couldn't all pitch in a nominal fee to get this started.

 

And I also agree with JPOP... in the end, pedestrian activity creates safety.  Hopefully with uptown and some of the other ventures going on that more bodies about put an end to having to read things like this... in the meantime... university circle needs a SID.

If a cruiser rolls past Wade Lagoon at 10:59, and the victim is assaulted at 11:02, how could the officers stop this kind of crime? Unless you actually see the perpetrators in action, what can be done?Unfortunately, there are certain risk we all take when we leave the house in the morning. Yes, I would like to see more police activity in certain areas of the city. However, in my opinion, more pedestrian activity is the only way to prevent this kind of crime.

I think so many people point to higher crime areas (which UC is not, generally) and stay away from them is because really, what they're saying underneath it all often times is that they're afraid, they don't want to take responsibility to change things.

 

An increased police presence is a necessary thing at times. Don't get me wrong. But seeing police on every street corner, patrolling the streets everywhere, honestly gives me the creeps .. and more than anything, it's a sign to me of a society where regular, average Joe people just don't care enough to get involved when they have to.

 

I'm not saying people should be getting themselves into danger at all. But, to quote George Costanza, "You know, we live in a SOCIETY!!" A society will never be successful when government agencies are constantly needing to do things that regular, average citizens can and should be doing to help. Again, police have their place. But so do residents! And until people start seeing that and are willing to take back urban neighborhoods FOR THEMSELVES, this will never stop. Criminals prey on fear, first and foremostly.

 

I just want to see people in Cleveland start to take their neighborhoods and invest in them on an individual basis .. I guess that's essentially what I'm saying here. I hope I'm not stepping on any toes in stating my own opinions/desires.

If a cruiser rolls past Wade Lagoon at 10:59, and the victim is assaulted at 11:02, how could the officers stop this kind of crime? Unless you actually see the perpetrators in action, what can be done?

 

That is precisely why I want the police out of their cruisers.  They're very unlikely to see anything take place while sitting in their car seats, let alone while they're driving and focused on the road ahead.  Are you guys aware they can watch DVDs in their cruisers?  Unless something has changed recently, they can.

 

Again, if regular average citizens are supposed to prevent violent crime, then regular average citizens need more firepower.  I agree that neighbors should look out for each other, and should testify in court when they see something, but it is not legal for private citizens to match force with force.  The law assumes reasonable access to police protection, which we don't have here.  The law does not allow what you're suggesting.  Whether it should be changed, to allow for more vigilante action, is debatable and I don't know where I'd come down on it.

 

Just like downtown retail, active policing is a change we have to make BEFORE we can expect to see people out walking the streets.  I am amazed by the idea that we can start making positive changes only AFTER we have magically refilled the city with willing inhabitants and visitors.  We're blaming them for making rational decisions to avoid places that lack safety and shopping.  The market is waiting for these changes to take place BEFORE it takes Cleveland seriously again.

How terrible, and in the middle of broad daylight!  what are these kids on?  Or was this some kind of challenge?

 

He would have had to stab me before I would have left to go to a secluded area with him, I'm serious.  Or at least have tried to stab me, and probably would have ended up very sorry. 

327,

Okay, so If two officers are walking around Wade Lagoon what changes. Unless you begin profiling, nothing changes. If two cops see these teens wandering around UC, do they stop them to ask what are they doing? Honestly, I don't want to live in that kind of society.  Also, as soon as the cops leave a particular area, that area becomes unpatrolled. We would need a lot more cops for this to work. Also, there is a certain segment of the population that is undeterred by police presence or the thought of going to jail. I will say it again, we are talking about something that is near impossible to stop unless we have a cop on every corner.

I have never suggested that teens be profiled.  The cops would be there to prevent rapes from happening in broad daylight, not to harass every teen who walks by.  I assume we can all perceive the difference between those two courses of action.  The procedure manual would go something like this: 

 

Kids walking by, not raping anyone:  Smile and nod.  Note their presence.

 

Lady being attacked in front of museum:  Aggressively intervene!

 

The idea is that if police are constantly observing the area, and something happens in that area which we all clearly think should not be allowed to happen there, the police will see it as it develops and will take action.  I find it hard to believe that it is physically impossble to secure the front of a museum.  And if the police are assigned to guard the front of the museum, why are we talking about what happens after they idly wander off?  They get fired, that's what happens.

327 you are failing to see what sir2gees is saying.  unless you have a police officer sitting out front of the museum of art 24 hours a day, or police walk past the front of this place every 5 minutes in which we'd need to have approximately a 100x larger police force (which all know isn't going to happen)... this thing can happen as soon as the officer passes by.

Not to mention which, it's not like the museum is the only place a criminal could hang out. I mean, you can't have police EVERYWHERE that a criminal could be.

^ exactly.

 

though i'd still like to see a clean and safe program in the area, some sort of visible presence would help a great deal.

You're right it's not impossible to secure to the front of the museum. However, can CPD secure every institution in University Circle? Until now, we never though this kind of crime could happen on the front steps of the Art Museum. There are too many variables and too many places to be. It's no different than waiting until my mom turned her back so I could punch my littler brother in his face.

It is not uncommon for important places to have police assigned to guard them round the clock.  In fact it's unbelievably common, if I'm hearing you right.  I am aware of several such instances within Cleveland city limits, although entities other than CPD provide the necessary manpower.  But in each case the location is important enough to guard, so it's guarded.  Period.  If you want an area secured, you assign staff to stay there and provide security.  That is exactly how it's done, all around us, every day.

 

I don't understand how my suggestion that we guard important areas like Wade Lagoon could be interpreted to mean that I expect every inch of city to be covered in this manner.  That makes no sense.  But neither does assuming that a police officer's natural place is in his cruiser, which it isn't and never has been.  I never thought the idea of having people guard important places seemed so ludicrous or so impossible.  It is neither.

 

And anyone who didn't think crime could happen on the steps of this particular art museum missed a pretty big story about a bombing.

I really hope that the CMA holds off on any big announcements over the next year or so..... Imagine the side comments from the PD from now on -

 

"The Cleveland Museaum of Art, at which a horrific rape took place this past summer, is seeking funds to finish its expansion project"

 

"The site lines at Wade lagoon, where prowlers have been known to stalk and rape female graduate students, have been criticized by some"

 

"While many are excited to tour the new wing, some concerns exist as to the safety of the area following the knife-point raping of a CWRU student in broad daylight this past June." 

 

I guess they got to find some way to sell papers.  :|

 

 

Re the discussion above, Manhattan had some great success with foot patrols as part of its order maintenance policing policy under Mayor Guiliani.  For Cleveland, I see it as a great idea for all of downtown - with focused patrols around Playhouse Square, E 4th, Gateway, North Coast Harbor, the WHD, Public Square and other high traffic areas like in Ohio City near the WSM.  It's a police technique that works particularly well with aggressive panhandlers and vagrants.  In UC, for many reasons, I see it as a waste of money. 

Re the discussion above, Manhattan had some great success with foot patrols as part of its order maintenance policing policy under Mayor Guiliani. For Cleveland, I see it as a great idea for all of downtown - with focused patrols around Playhouse Square, E 4th, Gateway, North Coast Harbor, the WHD, Public Square and other high traffic areas like in Ohio City near the WSM. It's a police technique that works particularly well with aggressive panhandlers and vagrants. In UC, for many reasons, I see it as a waste of money.

 

Instead of having a foot patrol in UC maybe there should be a bike patrol. It would be easier for cops to get around UC on a bike and it would increase police presence.

Good point .. does CPD have a bike patrol currently?

^yes... i see them downtown from time to time (granted not that often).  My guess is that they simply don't have the manpower to currently divert to this.

After reading the details of the unfortunate crime including the time (nuts) place, nature and background of the alledged assailant I concluded this is the type of crime that could happen anywhere, including someplace like Westlake...in fact it did last year at Crocker Park.  I certainly do not feel unsafe in that area and never have.

Palijandro I thought my point was pretty clear and echoed by other posters.  This was a horrible random event committed by a not too bright criminal (given the facts as reported) that could have happen anywhere including an area that is "perceived" as safe. 

 

This happened on the steps of the art museum.  What's next?  Outside the Rock Hall?  Would you say "it could happen anywhere" to that, too?    Obviously you can't have a cop everywhere.  But outside the art museum?  It's not like she was on corner of E.99th & Tanner.

 

Obviously it could happen anywhere.  It could happen on the Space Shuttle Atlantis.  However, I think that's a bad argument and I don't understand it.  Why not just say, "God works in mysterious ways."   

 

We just need an influx of cops in areas where people visit.  Not saying with 100% certainty it would have made a difference, but criminals will not be so emboldened if they know the odds of them being apprehened is really high. 

 

I agree... but I think we also have to understand how stretched the police department is.  Currently they are deployed based on crime frequency.  If calls come in stating multiple crimes in specific areas more police are deployed them.  This is a very low crime area so it probably doesn't have as much presence.  i'm sure this will change that.  Also can we be so sure that there weren't police in the vicinity?  They may have passed by this area minutes before hand.  unless you catch someone practically in the act it is very difficult to prevent this stuff.  honestly i'm not sure how easy it is to remedy this stuff... we need more police in this city.  we all know it.  how can we get more money to hire them?  that's the million dollar question.  that's why i keep harping about the SID, they can provide additional services in a very important sector and it is privately financed by the institutions who have a vested interest there...

Is the problem too few police, or too many criminals?

Definitely too few police. JMO.

I agree... there are too many criminals in some areas.  This isn't one of them.  But as a whole, we have too few police.  It would be great to deploy more in areas like this and certain areas of downtown, near west, etc as a preventitve measure... but at this point that would require taking them out of high crime areas which could be just as bad...

Is the problem too few police, or too many criminals?

 

In the city of Cleveland limits?  Too many criminals.  Period.

 

Like someone said upthread...this is a society.  We all need to live to the same level of standard that is dictated to the society (i.e., law).  The high level problem with Cleveland is the too many  of the people living in it acting like knuckleheads.  There are no problems if people don't commit crimes.  Ultimately the decision to commit a crime is left to the individual.  Everyone is born with the same moral compass...I don't really care what injustices might have happened to you in your upbringing...everyone has problems...what defines you is how you handle them.

 

Stop commiting crimes and crime like this isn't a problem.

Yeah. I think a lot of crime happens when people start blaming other people or circumstances for their own problems, and instead of tackling those problems maturely and responsibly, they decide, well, society/life has wronged me, so who gives a fuck.

 

Maybe that's not true for everyone, but I think something happens along the way where people feel like they need to start making their own rules. But those choices have consequences, and the only way to stop those consequences is to stop the bad choices.

I can't tell you how many many times I sat on those steps as a student in the 70's ad 80's . I could not imagine something like that happening then. Rose colored glasses?

Palijandro, obviously you are not grasping my point so I will simply apologize to you for that.  It must be that I cannot articulate very well.  So much for seven years of higher education.

I can't tell you how many many times I sat on those steps as a student in the 70's ad 80's . I could not imagine something like that happening then. Rose colored glasses?

 

I don't think there's anyone here that could have imagined it yesterday.

It's time to make rape a capital punishment.  Enough is enough already

I wouldn't blame anyone if they "accidently"set the rapist's parents' home on fire with them inside. Might actually help persuade other deadbeat ghetto trash to parent their kids.

^Capital punishment? Has capital punishment reduced the murder rate since it's re inception? There is a large segment of the population that doesn't care about mandatory jail time or capital punishment. Do think these teenagers would have been deterred because rape carried a stiffer penalty? Probably not. We have to address the root of the problem. Too many teenagers in certain neighborhoods are being left to their own devices. I remember being 16, and if I didn't have parents, I don't know where I would be.

Palijandro, obviously you are not grasping my point so I will simply apologize to you for that.  It must be that I cannot articulate very well.  So much for seven years of higher education.

 

No, it's more than possible I am not. 

 

Regarding crime, does anyone know the percentage of money Cleveland spends on law enforcement and how it ranks compared to other cities? 

 

I second the rape = capital punishment, but only if it is proven by DNA, admission, etc.  Any "he said, she said" can't go there (there was a 60 Minutes segment on this a couple months ago). 

 

IMO, rape is only second to murder in terms of destroying the victim's life.  It is an absolutely repulsive crime that wipes out the soul of many victims and is something that devastates them for the rest of their life. 

 

And I'm not even talking about it for deterrence purporses, I just want the perpertrators eliminated, plain and simple.

This 16 year old kid, whom I'm presuming has already had some experiences with the judicial system, was caught sleeping in his car.  Clearly he was not worried about the consequences of his actions because (a) he's scum and (b) he knows he's not going to face any long term sentences.  What do you think he'll get?  3-5 years?  Probation?  Nothing since he's a minor (too lazy to look at Ohio's Revised Code)? Meanwhile that Case student, no matter how much therapy she goes through, will always be a rape victim, even as he's walking around in however many months or years a free man.

 

The threat of jail/prison time doesn't faze guys like him whatsoever, so you have to look outside the box.  There needs to be a punishment so draconian that it will prohibit this kind of conduct.  He should die.

 

 

Ugh, this one happened at night, but same location.

 

SECURITY ALERT

Case Western Reserve Police and Security Services

 

 

 

Location of Incident: Wade Lagoon, Cleveland Museum of Art

 

Date of Incident: Tuesday, June 23, 2009

 

Time of Incident: 11:01 p.m.

 

Incident Description: A man and a woman who are not affiliated with the university were sitting at Wade Lagoon by the Cleveland Museum of Art when they were approached by three unknown men. One of the suspects brandished a handgun, and the three demanded money. The man and woman handed over their valuables, and the three suspects fled northwest on foot.

 

Suspect Descriptions: The suspects are described as follows:

 

Suspect #1 - black male, medium height, thin build, white t-shirt, tan pants, black head rag

Suspect #2 – black male, medium height, stocky build, braided hair, blue and green striped polo-style shirt, armed with a silver handgun

Suspect #3- black male, medium height, medium build, red shirt, red shorts

Additional Information: University Circle and Case Western Reserve University Police apprehended a juvenile male who met the description of the first suspect. The youth positively identified by the victims. The investigation is ongoing.

 

Security Alert # 8

Initiated: 6/24/2009

Information provided by: Case Western Reserve Police Department