Is Cudell really scary?

 

Yeah, go hang out at Madison and 83rd..

Cudell area isn't that great..but not that bad.....try hanging out at the E116th and Buckeye area or the E71st and Central area....especially during weekend nights....I work those areas, there are a LOT of bad things going on around there.

This is not completely following where this thread has been going (I read on the boards every day, just havent posted yet), but here is a somewhat related question.

 

I heard that last month a girl was raped repeatedly on the Rapid in Cleveland - is this true?  I ride the rapid all the time, and I have a hard time imagining that, but if it did happen, how did it happen & what does it say about Cleveland's safety?

  That happened on the East Cleveland station very late at night/or early AM however you look at it...it wasn't on the train, but it did happen.  This is my bitch (one of many) about RTA..not enough security or cameras.  I have transit police friends, but in my opinion, they do't need to all be driving around in patrol cars, some should be patrolling stations AND trains on foot, I also believe there needs to be more cameras that are monitored...but hey, what do I know?

here's 2006's homicide locations in cuyahoga county:

 

u had the one in mayfield hts with 2 people dead, but i didn't follow the story on that one..

the rest were in the city of cleveland, with their correct neighborhood listed afterwards:

 

downtown:

 

old river rd. near w. 10th (the east bank of the flats)

 

west side:

 

w. 85 @ madison -  cudell/detroit shoreway

w. 86 between madison and lorain - detroit shoreway

w. 90 between denison and clark - west blvd neighborhood

w. 90 @ clark - west blvd neighborhood/cudell

w. 105 @ lorain - west blvd neighborhood/cudell

 

main drag of the east side:

 

e. 54 @ fleet - south broadway (slavic village)

e. 57 @ fleet - south broadway (slavic village)

e. 71 between bessemer and union - north broadway

e. 93 @ union - kinsman/union-miles park

e. 112 @ union - mt. pleasant

e. 116 @ miles - corlett/union-miles park

 

north-east side of cleveland/east cleveland area:

 

e. 105 @ i-90

e. 127 @ st. claire

e. 177 @ villaview

 

there u have it.. a vicious year already..

Haven't been to my namesake alley in many years (Conover Ct. runs from W 85th to W 89th behind the buildings on the south side of Madison) my family lived on W. 87th from 1915 till 1993. Sorry to hear things are so bad in Cudell.

  Actually Bizbiz...I think the total is up to 19 or 20 already, those stats are always a little behind...good find though!

tack another homicide/suicide down for the west side: w. 105 @ lorain. (3/5/06) It was a robber fleeing from the store owner he just robbed at gunpoint. Apparently, the robber was holed up in his apartment hiding out and simply shot himself in the head. i guess that'd be suicide maybe, but it's another fatal death.

What if this was planned all along? Since black people were moving in the cities en masse decades ago, there was no where to kick them out to. So in order to get them out the suburbs were setup for whites to have a safe haven until the time was right to move back in and push all the blacks far away outside into those same distant suburbs. Leaving the cities for white people to take over. What do think of that theory?

 

It think its more than a little far-fetched.

 

Of course it is, like many other conspiracy theories.

but it's another fatal death.

 

Er...is there another kind of death?

but it's another fatal death.

 

Er...is there another kind of death?

 

only if u want there to be another kind..

^ Is that supposed to be an "I know you are but what am I" type of response?

 

Next thing we'll read is that the corpse had no pulse.

Refering back to the post about planning to get African Americans to the suburbs, and whites back into the cities; check out the book, "Urban Ecology:  Detroit and Beyond," by Kyong Park.  In one section of the book, "Detroit: Making it Better for You," is the first person perspective of big corporations in Detroit (the city that once had the most of any city in the world) that have planned the destruction of its urban core since the 50's by building suburban sprawl to empty the city, create a consumer society in the suburbs, buy back the land in the cities for basically nothing, rebuild it, repopulate it, and make billions of dollars in the process.

Yes a conspiracy theory, but the concept is genius and worked to perfection if it is true.  Interesting to see how entire regions can be manipulated by large government/corporate entities when there is money to be made.

If you are interested in the reasons behind urban sprawl, the destruction of American cities, and what is being done about it across the globe, this is a must read.

Er...yeah.  So why haven't I heard of the eighteen blocks of OTR that Chrysler invested in back in the 1960's, and that are now worth millions and millions of dollars?  And I'm sorry, but it didn't work all that brilliantly, because except for individual redevelopers going into neighborhoods and making them desirable, the areas that supposedly went to hell during White Flight haven't gone from pennies on the dollar to boomtowns, and the properties that are worth so much money right in the central business districts never dropped to "basically nothing," at least as far as I know of.

 

And who exactly was it that did this planning?  Because if whoever planned it didn't subsequently personally invest in inner city property, then this reduces to some conglomerate white conspiracy, which is yet more absurd.

 

And further, the concept isn't genius, because we're talking about a conspiracy that's lasted since the 1950's...so how much do you expect to make doing this "shove out the black folk so we can buy cheap real estate and sit on it while it increases in value"?  You gonna double your money?  Maybe buy places for $20K and sell them for $100K?  $200K?  $400K?

 

If that's their plan, they're stupid.  Invest the same money in the Dow Jones in the 50's and your $20K in 1950 would be worth $1.2MM today.

 

Damnit, I should have followed KJP's advice...

Hey, I didn't write the book.  I'm just passing on information for the topic of the thread.

In the scenario in the book they are only half way through their plan and will begin obtaining property in the next few years, and then rebuilding the city.

It's just a concept of continually moving populations to make money.

 

if you take out the racial angle the concept of moving populations around to make money is perfectly valid fact. that is exactly what drives suburban sprawl today. unfortunately i get the impression that most of america still thinks it has unlimited land resources and can build its way out of anything and that brand new edge-city development is a great good.

 

keep everyone moving for profit, i dk about the racial part, but thats an interesting angle and there is something to it.

 

I don't buy it for a minute.  Who is really thinking 50 years ahead for profit?  There are a ton of reasons that our cities have decayed.  This is a red herring, and a ridiculous one at that.

Let's just hope peak oil doesn't destroy the "good life" out in sprawland. :yap:

From today's PD,

http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/cuyahoga/1141032655207320.xml&coll=2

 

Is petty crime too petty to report?

Monday, March 13, 2006

By Rachel Dissell

The Cleveland Neighborhood Development Coalition, a group of community development nonprofits working to revitalize neighborhoods, has hired former Cleveland police Cmdr. Charles McNeeley, who is now chief in Olmsted Township, to help create a series of Neighborhood Safety Action Plans. Desiree Schmitt, who owns Southside Dry Cleaners and Concierge in Tremont, is working with a group that formed a phone tree to promptly relay news of crimes to neighbors.

 

The group is also working to set up an Internet site where people can log crimes and the police response. Currently, they post items on tremonter.com, a neighborhood Web site.

Interesting. When I write up the Second District police blotter for the paper, I don't even bother with a lot of those same types of crimes. For that matter, I usually don't even put stolen car reports in, since there are so many and most cars are often recovered by the CPD (albeit, sans radio, tires, front end....)

I would say Cleveland is probably the most dangerous city in ohio , and im saying that from my experiances in the other c cities , Ive been to Cincinnati on many occasions and was in there "Rough Areas" and no one seemed to even noticed me , Whereas in Cleveland hell ive got guns pulled on me , it seems to me the people in the dicey areas of cleveland seem to be more menacing then the ones in cincinnati or columbus , Im not saying the Cleveland is the worst , i dont know the facts , but from my experiances , Cleveland is defiantly no joke when it comes to crime

I would say Cleveland is probably the most dangerous city in ohio , and im saying that from my experiances in the other c cities , Ive been to Cincinnati on many occasions and was in there "Rough Areas" and no one seemed to even noticed me , Whereas in Cleveland hell ive got guns pulled on me , it seems to me the people in the dicey areas of cleveland seem to be more menacing then the ones in cincinnati or columbus , Im not saying the Cleveland is the worst , i dont know the facts , but from my experiances , Cleveland is defiantly no joke when it comes to crime

 

Over-the-Rhine > Cleveland's ghettos combined.

Good for OTR, but what makes you say that?

Good for OTR, but what makes you say that?

 

I meant (to respond to the person above me talking about Cincinnati's ghettoes) that Over-the-Rhine is far more "dangerous" feeling than Cleveland's ghettos.  If anything, that's a compliment towards Cleveland.

I know, I was being sarcastic about the "Good for OTR".  But why does it feel more dangerous?  Is it the layout of the neighborhood, the people, or something else?  I haven't been there, but in the pics I've seen, OTR doesn't look too bad, although it is still certainly rough around the edges.

Is it the layout of the neighborhood, the people, or something else?

 

The layout, the "density," the people, and the 24 activity.  It's almost too gritty for its own good.  That isn't to say the ENTIRE neighborhood is like that (as OTR has gorgeous areas) but let's just say, Vine at 3am isn't exactly the best spot in Ohio.

  Interesting for you to say that....I work in some very bad areas of Cleveland, so I do have a very personal perspective.  IN fact, I am writing this from my fire station situated on E116th between Buckeye and Kinsman, if you really know Cleveland, you would not want to walk around this area.  OTR, in comparison, I would have to say is a much smaller area than Cleveland's bad areas....a majority of the east side (city proper) can get pretty bad.  I am sure OTR is bad...but I wouldn't be so ready to go through the Garden Valley projects, the central and Fairfax neighborhoods, Morris Black projects, St. Clair/E 105th area....the list goes on!  Maybe OTR can "seem" more dangerous....but compare homicides  between the cities for 2005 and for this year so far.  I think I might be better off in Cincy.

  Interesting for you to say that....I work in some very bad areas of Cleveland, so I do have a very personal perspective.  IN fact, I am writing this from my fire station situated on E116th between Buckeye and Kinsman, if you really know Cleveland, you would not want to walk around this area.   OTR, in comparison, I would have to say is a much smaller area than Cleveland's bad areas....a majority of the east side (city proper) can get pretty bad.  I am sure OTR is bad...but I wouldn't be so ready to go through the Garden Valley projects, the central and Fairfax neighborhoods, Morris Black projects, St. Clair/E 105th area....the list goes on!  Maybe OTR can "seem" more dangerous....but compare homicides  between the cities for 2005 and for this year so far.  I think I might be better off in Cincy.

 

OTR isn't Cincinnati's only ghetto area, I hope you know that.  I just said its Ohio most "dangerous ghetto" neighborhood.  Dayton's west side is JUST as bad as Cleveland's east side (if not worse).  When I go to east Cleveland neighborhoods, they feel like west Dayton's, thus I don't feel that "dangerious" as I'm used to that.  But OTR/West End is far more different in "type" of ghetto than either "Midwestern standard ghetto."  That's why I say that OTR is perhaps more "ghetto" than, say, some wood-frame doubles, a bombed out commercial district, and some rib joints.

yeah i agree with jdd941  all i gotta say is read the book Cleveland Cops and you will see that some fucked up shit happens all day everyday in Cleveland . Ive been through Over The Rhine and to tell you the truth i felt more safe down there than lets say the Garden Valley or Cliffview Projects , Im not trying to brag but Cleveland is alot more ghetto than cincinnati, A girl i know from Cincy works downtown at the University Hospital , And she said Cleveland is far worse than Cincinnati .

I hope you know all those areas jdd941 listed are all larger than the size of OTR and just as worse if not worse . Trust me you guys should be happy when we say Clevelands worse cause its not nothing to be proud of

 

"A girl i know from Cincy works downtown at the University Hospital , And she said Cleveland is far worse than Cincinnati ."

 

Oh well THAT'S definitely a scientific fact - I mean she works in downtown Cincy, so of course she's the resident expert on crime-ridden areas in Cleveland.  :roll:

"A girl i know from Cincy works downtown at the University Hospital , And she said Cleveland is far worse than Cincinnati ."

 

Oh well THAT'S definitely a scientific fact - I mean she works in downtown Cincy, so of course she's the resident expert on crime-ridden areas in Cleveland.  :roll:

 

and i've never been a victim of a crime in detroit or cleveland, so clearly those are the two safest cities in the nation.

  Interesting for you to say that....I work in some very bad areas of Cleveland, so I do have a very personal perspective.  IN fact, I am writing this from my fire station situated on E116th between Buckeye and Kinsman, if you really know Cleveland, you would not want to walk around this area.   OTR, in comparison, I would have to say is a much smaller area than Cleveland's bad areas....a majority of the east side (city proper) can get pretty bad.  I am sure OTR is bad...but I wouldn't be so ready to go through the Garden Valley projects, the central and Fairfax neighborhoods, Morris Black projects, St. Clair/E 105th area....the list goes on!  Maybe OTR can "seem" more dangerous....but compare homicides  between the cities for 2005 and for this year so far.  I think I might be better off in Cincy.

 

JDD...you need to start saying "parts" instead of deeming an entire community as bad!  I live on Shaker Square and have walked down buckeye to 116 to grocery shop.  I've never felt threatened.  But then again im 6' 3.5", I'm rarely intimidated by anyone.

 

I also know people that live in Central and Fairfax (that can afford to live elsewhere) that are not criminals or live in bad housing.

 

You have the right to say what you want...but your "generalizations" are not cool.

 

 

Did i say she was a expert no , i all said is she thought it was worse than cincinnati . i didnt come in here to start arguements im sharing my opinion and one others , if you dont like my opinions shut up

Did i say she was a expert no , i all said is she thought it was worse than cincinnati . i didnt come in here to start arguements im sharing my opinion and one others , if you dont like my opinions shut up

 

Everyone just relax....relate....and release.

 

MX, welcome! 

 

Sarcasm runs rampant here.   There are a ton of good people here and most have a "great"..better yet.."warped" sense of humor.  People here for the most part are respectful and have a great deal of knowledge to share with others who love and appreciation for Ohio.

 

So, honey, pull it together, get over yourself and stop being so d*mn sensitive!  8-) :wink:  :-D

Did i say she was a expert no , i all said is she thought it was worse than cincinnati . i didnt come in here to start arguements im sharing my opinion and one others , if you dont like my opinions shut up

 

Everybody thinks everything is worse than their hometown.  People in Columbus think the east side isn't as ghetto as Cincinnati, Dayton, Youngstown, or Cleveland.  They couldn't be any more wrong.

 

The point I was trying to make is that Over-the-Rhine is a different TYPE of ghetto than the "standard Midwest ghetto" or (as CDawg pointed out) "suburban ghettos."  Thus, the "feeling" or intensity of "ghetto" or "danger" is far more evident in Over-the-Rhine, West End, and perhaps Lower Price Hill, versus a larger swath of abandoned or maybe blocks of intact wood-frame doubles in west Dayton, east Cleveland, south Youngstown, or parts of Toledo/Columbus. 

 

The point.  We all got hood.  It isn't something we should be proud of.  But Cleveland's "ghettos" are NOT more "dangerous feeling" or whatever than Cincinnati's.  Walk down Vine Street...then walk in Garden Valley.  Tell me there isn't a difference.  Again, it's a compliment towards Cleveland, if anything, that you don't have anything nearly as "mentally threatening" as Vine Street north of, say, 13th.

 

Though west Dayton isn't exactly a picnic, particularly DeSoto Bass or Lexington Courts.

 

But back to "who has more hood" comparisons...

"if you dont like my opinions shut up"

 

You don't take that tone with me, ever. See the title "Administrator"? Enjoy your time off.

Dwamn.

"if you dont like my opinions shut up"

 

You don't take that tone with me, ever. See the title "Administrator"? Enjoy your time off.

 

(in my best rupaul voice) oooooooooohhh, you betta work b*tch!

MayDay layin the smack down!!!

Over The Rhine is not the worst ghetto in Ohio because ColdDayMan says so. But we all knew that..

 

Anyways, I have been to every major city in Ohio and I think that they all have their own little ghetto's - some big, some small. There really isn't a way to say which ghetto's in Ohio are worst unless you have data showing homicide and crime stats for each individual neighborhood or district - which I assume nobody can provide. I would say that OTR in Cincy is no worse than Arlington in Akron - both are situated near the downtown area, without full seclusion - they blend right into areas of the city that aren't so bad.

 

Getting back to Cleveland, which this thread is about: As a longtime social worker/taxi driver/urban developer, I have seen and been up and down just about every street in Cleveland and Cuyahoga County. I also work with a lot of people who also work AND live in the toughest parts of Cleveland. Here's what I think are the worst "ghetto's" or parts of Cleveland and NE Ohio. By all means, this is not a guide to the ghetto's of Cleveland and many more parts of the city are troubled than the ones I have listed below.

 

1. Garden Valley - This is definately the most secluded and scariest place in Cleveland that I know of. It's a combination of public housing (CMHA), mixed-income, boarding houses, and so forth. It's situated in a parklike setting off of Kinsman Road near E. 79th St. Surrounded by vacant and abandoned warehouses on Bessemer and E. 79th, right there near the infamous "Forgotten Triangle", the railroad tracks, and of course a very large # of boarded up crackhouses, this is the home of the "Garden Valley Boys", one of the most established gangs in Cleveland. If you think the other "ghetto's" of Cleveland are bad or if you think you've seen it all, go hang out in Garden Valley for 5 minutes. It's totally secluded and even once you leave these projects, you are not much safer, as Kinsman is the only main road nearby - and we all know that Kinsman doesn't have any "good" parts. On top of all of this, Garden Valley is not a typical street grid system, but rather a gigantic circle that offers only an entrance and an exit - as opposed to street grids that allow police for quicker access. I believe it's the biggest urban renewal project in state history. The site occupies 130 acres but only has 650 units built on it, most in 3-4 story low-rises, leaving a lot of seclusion from an already secluded part of the city. From Neighborhoodlink:

 

"Between 1960 and 1990, the area's population fell from over 20,000 to approximately 7,500. The proportion of African-American residents rose from 53% in 1950 to 97% in 1980. The neighborhood has one of the lowest average household incomes in the City. Widespread deterioration, demolition and illegal dumping caused the area bounded by Kinsman Road, Woodhill Road and Woodland Avenue to become known as the "Forgotten Triangle."

 

2. Storer Avenue - This steet stretches from Fulton Avenue to West 65th St. on the near west side of Cleveland - and I consider the entire street to be a "ghetto". Not nearly as many boarded up crackhouses as you'll find on the eastside, but this is where I have seen a number of street fights, wild dogs casually roaming, grafitti on houses and cars, drug deals in broad daylight, and so on. I encourage someone who thinks the west side is a nice area to go drive to the West 50th St. and Storer Avenue quad and see how much street activity goes on in this VERY dense neighborhood known as the crossroads of the Stockyards and Clark-Fulton neighborhoods. There is no public housing in this part of Cleveland, and the majority of homes in these 2 neighborhoods are low-income multi-tenant rentals. I know at least 5 industrial sites on West 65th, West 63rd, and Denison that have gone to the extent of now having guard dogs on duty 24 hours a day. Not just little poochy's, but real "guard dogs". I have yet to see this sort of thing anywhere else in Cleveland or Ohio for that matter. Take a drive down West 63rd St. between Storer and Clark, tell me what you see.. Some of my friends at PURE will refuse to represent a property in this part of Cleveland or anything south of Lorain (SoLo).

 

3. The eastside of Cleveland has a continuous stretch of rough areas, but to break it down into blocks or central points, I think the following are worst:

 

a. Buckeye between E. 116 and E. 130. Please don't let the presence of Shaker Square around the corner make you think this is a safe area. Many, many, many boarded up crackhouses can be found in this part of Cleveland.

 

b. Union/Kinsman intersection - Just a lot of abandoned properties and boarded up crackhouses. 30-40 sex predators in a 10 block radius.

 

c. E. 93rd to E. 130th between Harvard and Miles. A lot of industrial/boarding houses/residential all mixed up. It can get very nasty at E. 130th and Harvard at nighttime.

 

d. Fleet and E. 55th is the most recent area to take a turn for the worse. Highest ratio of convicted sex predators living in this part of the city. 2 murders in 2006 at this quad already.

 

e. Broadway @ Pershing - Every other house is boarded up. I don't even know how many people are actually living here anymore. This is a very troubled area right next to I-77. I also think that the nearby E. 65th St. is one of the worst residential streets in all of Cleveland - I am referring to the segment of E. 65th St. between Union going north until it dead ends near the I-490 off-ramp. (This is the "backyard" of the Garden Valley Estates)

 

f. Eddy Road where it meets Hayman near Superior/Euclid. This intertwining of Cleveland/East Cleveland worries me. Probably the worst part of Cleveland north of University Circle.

 

g. Noble/Taylor/Euclid/Terrace - This plateau'd 4 street "block" in East Cleveland can be seen from miles away, just locate the very tall Crystal Tower and you're there. Very rough area, full of boarding houses and the center of East Cleveland's problems.

 

h. Anything between Superior and St. Claire in the low 100's.

 

With that said, I don't think Hough, Fairfax, or some of the other aforementioned neighborhoods in Cleveland are nearly as bad. I just don't feel scared, threatened, or at risk when on foot in these neighborhoods, and I feel completely safe when in my car - day or night. I have done so many pickups for clients with my business in the denser parts of the eastside and Fairfax is not as bad as people make it out to be. However, I would not get out of my car under ANY condition in Garden Valley or on Storer Avenue, but that's just my personal opinion.

 

Other parts of NE Ohio that are bothersome:

 

Lorain - E. 28th St. near the factories/Ford plants and the segments near the "downtown" area.

 

Akron - Aforementioned Arlington, as well as the secluded boarding houses in the SE quadrant of Rt. 8 and I-77/76 near Cole/Arlington. Druid Walk and Eva Walk are like the nastiest thing I know of in Akron. It looks like a prison that lets its tenants go outside. It's not just "scary" looking, it IS scary! I have a friend who lives nearby and we have seen some nasty things happen here. Nobody seems to know about it because nobody wants to go into that area of Akron. I guess that makes sense.. Also, I would be careful near I-77 @ Copley Rd. That area gets sketchy. Same with Vernon Odom (V. Odom) @ I-77, and Diagonal @ I-77. The Firestone area is a bit rough, so is the northern tip of Akron near Cuyahoga Falls and the CVNP.

 

Barberton - There are some parts of this city (a suburb of the Akron area) that really bother me. I dated a lady in Barberton and the first time I was in the city, I was shocked at what I saw - I never thought the city was problematic beyond the common crystal meth lab issue. But it was and it still is! Mainly the area around "downtown" Barberton and Lake Anna Park.

g. Noble/Taylor/Euclid/Terrace - This plateau'd part of East Cleveland can be seen from miles away, just located Crystal Tower and you're there. Very rough area, full of boarding houses and the center of East Cleveland's problems.

 

^ I can speak from experience on this locale; I remember looking for a client's house who lived in Cleveland Hts. off of Taylor Road.  Not being familiar with the area at that time, I drove right into this area.  Not a real inviting neighborhood.

 

Akron - Aforementioned Arlington, as well as the secluded boarding houses in the SE quadrant of Rt. 8 and I-77/76 near Cole/Arlington. Druid Walk and Eva Walk are like the nastiest thing I know of in Akron. It looks like a prison that lets its tenants go outside. It's not just "scary" looking, it IS scary! I have a friend who lives nearby and we have seen some nasty things happen here. Nobody seems to know about it because nobody wants to go into that area of Akron. I guess that makes sense.. Also, I would be careful near I-77 @ Copley Rd. That area gets sketchy. Same with Vernon Odom (V. Odom) @ I-77, and Diagonal @ I-77. The Firestone area is a bit rough, so is the northern tip of Akron near Cuyahoga Falls and the CVNP.

 

^ Some areas around Arlington are pretty rough; though, I've been to the area so many times, I really don't feel concerned around there.  I remember when me and a co-worker went canvassing in this area; he probably thought I was crazy for dragging him over there.  He didn't say anything in particular, but he kept coming up with various reasons why we should head for another 'hood; again, being that I'm familiar with the area it never really phased me.

 

Some of the areas around Copley Rd are definantly problematic.  The areas around Diagonal, Hawkins and Vernom Odom Blvd are a little dicey as well; there have been several homicides in this area in the past year, and just recently, a body was found off of Hawkins.

 

bizbiz, what area are you referring to near the CVNP?....

Hello A 2 Da K, I don't feel scared when in Akron as much as I used to be either. The part of Arlington that I am referring to (since it's a very long street) is North Arlington and E. Market St (RT. 18) just east of RT 8. The streets north of RT. 18, west of N. Arlington, such as Cotter, Upson, Hazel, and N. Adams are where it's statistically worst. 14 convicted sex predators living in a 4 block radius. The biggest crackhouse in many years was recently located here, with the arrest of at least 14 dealers in one bust. Still, Cleveland and the other major Ohio cities have worse, but this definately is one of Akron's worst parts.

A 2 Da K, the areas near CVNP I am referring to are:

 

W. Tallmadge Avenue @ N. Main St.

W. Cuyahoga Falls Avenue, west of N. Main St.

Cuyahoga St. @ W. Glenwood

Frederick Avenue over to W. Carpenter is known as "prostitute's block"

 

 

 

 

^ I agree, some of those areas are pretty rough; especially around Cuyahoga St. and W. Tallmadge Ave.  I assumed you were referring to this area; however, I just wanted to be sure.  I live close to the Cuyohaga Valley in another neigborhood, just wanted to make sure I wasn't going to have to start looking up crime stats for my area...

Over The Rhine is not the worst ghetto in Ohio because ColdDayMan says so. But we all knew that..

 

Anyways, I have been to every major city in Ohio and I think that they all have their own little ghetto's - some big, some small. There really isn't a way to say which ghetto's in Ohio are worst unless you have data showing homicide and crime stats for each individual neighborhood or district - which I assume nobody can provide. I would say that OTR in Cincy is no worse than Arlington in Akron - both are situated near the downtown area, without full seclusion - they blend right into areas of the city that aren't so bad.

area around "downtown" Barberton and Lake Anna Park.

 

Comparing Arlington (which I am VERY familiar with) to OTR already loses your credibility, in all honesty (and yes, Arlington isn't as bad as it used to be).  Just because "ColDayMan" says so does not mean I am correct.  It is my opinion and I have traveled enough in this state (particularly "bad" areas) to create it.  And I have been to nearly all the areas you mentioned as the "worst" parts of NE Ohio and (IN MY OPINION - read that again and again) they are not nearly as bad as DeSoto Bass in Dayton or OTR/West End/Pendleton in Cincinnati.  They are more comparable to sections of East Price Hill, Avondale, and Evanston in Cincinnati.

 

Again, that is "ColdDayMan's opinion."  We all have them.  Whoopdy do.

E

Over The Rhine is not the worst ghetto in Ohio because ColdDayMan says so. But we all knew that..

 

Anyways, I have been to every major city in Ohio and I think that they all have their own little ghetto's - some big, some small. There really isn't a way to say which ghetto's in Ohio are worst unless you have data showing homicide and crime stats for each individual neighborhood or district - which I assume nobody can provide. I would say that OTR in Cincy is no worse than Arlington in Akron - both are situated near the downtown area, without full seclusion - they blend right into areas of the city that aren't so bad.

area around "downtown" Barberton and Lake Anna Park.

 

Comparing Arlington (which I am VERY familiar with) to OTR already loses your credibility, in all honesty (and yes, Arlington isn't as bad as it used to be).  Just because "ColDayMan" says so does not mean I am correct.  It is my opinion and I have traveled enough in this state (particularly "bad" areas) to create it.  And I have been to nearly all the areas you mentioned as the "worst" parts of NE Ohio and (IN MY OPINION - read that again and again) they are not nearly as bad as DeSoto Bass in Dayton or OTR/West End/Pendleton in Cincinnati.  They are more comparable to sections of East Price Hill, Avondale, and Evanston in Cincinnati.

 

Again, that is "ColdDayMan's opinion."  We all have them.  Whoopdy do.

 

 

Fine.. but you ranted earlier about how OTR *is* the worst ghetto in Ohio, telling other users that it's worse than the ones they mentioned. You said:

 

"I just said its Ohio most "dangerous ghetto" neighborhood"

 

and you also wrote:

 

"But Cleveland's "ghettos" are NOT more "dangerous feeling" or whatever than Cincinnati's."

 

To me, that is not an opinion, but rather your attempt to discredit someone else's opinion by stating an untrue fact. Where is there any sort of opinion in these statements you made?? If you were merely offering an opinion, "I think", "I feel", "I believe", or "In my opinion" should have preceded the statement that OTR is indeed the worst ghetto in Ohio.

While I admit I am fairly ignorant of other Ohio ghetto's I can speak about OTR.  OTR is particularly a bad ghetto because:

1) As previously stated the narrowness and density of OTR make it seem almost unescapable and make one feel trapped.

2) While stopping to get gas on Liberty a block east of Vine, i had 2 guys come up trying to sell me drugs, one guy asking for money and when I said no he yelled "fuckin cracka", 2 kids about age 8 came up to me on their bikes and asked to pump my gas, there were 4 tables on the sidewalks selling bootleg cd's, dvds, purses, etc. I had to pay by slipping money through an opening at the bottom of the bullet proof glass window (if you want a snack or cigs you have to tell them what you want and they give it to you through a sliding drawer.

3) Drug deals go on all the time in the middle of daylight.

4) There's a sense of general lawlessness moreseo than most other bad neighborhoods in Cincy.

5) Mobs of youths crowd sidewalks and sometimes the street.

6) OTR slopes up a fairly steep hill which also makes people feel trapped.

 

Now, again, I haven't been to Cleveland's ghetto areas but I have been to Columbus and there really is no compare in my mind and I would find it hard to find a tougher place in Ohio. Btw...the OTR pic's on here really dont do justice to the true nature of some of the worst spots.

Actually, the only thing I'd disagree with, edale, is that I've always felt that at least I could "escape" OTR fairly quickly.  Maybe it's just because I know the streets, have a picture of the surroundings in my head, but while it seems like OTR can be extremely scary, at least it ain't huge...many, many blocks - but not square miles.  In fact, even in the worst of neighborhoods, you're never more than a couple blocks from potential assistance - traffic, pay phones, probably cop patrols, etc.

 

But maybe I just feel that way because I know the area somewhat - but I know you know the area as well, so maybe it's not a function of familiarity, I'm just on crack...

I'd have to agree that Cleveland's worst area is Garden Valley and the surrounding portion of Kinsman.  It is just so incredibly abandoned around their, and the woods have begun creeping back in on those lots, so it feels like you could be killed and no one would ever find your body.  The feeling is ghetto, but also remoteness and emptiness at the same time, which seems to be the opposite of OTR, which feels ghetto because everything is closing in on you (from what people are saying).