Extra partols for Downtown tonight  :'(

 

* ESPN: LeBron Show May Cause 'Violence' In Ohio. With ESPN handing over an hour of airtime to LeBron James tonight, ESPN's Shelley Smith reported on the same network this afternoon that in advance of the James-ESPN production "fear has given way to a rising anger" among Clevelanders and "there could be violence tonight" throughout the city. Smith added that Cleveland police have bolstered downtown patrols in anticipation of any violence that could erupt in response to events playing out on the James-ESPN show.

 

http://outofbounds.nbcsports.com/2010/07/thursday-blogdome-14.html.php

 

Honestly, you guys are feeding the hysteria.  The blogosphere has blasted this like it was the hough riots.

Well, as far as I can tell, there was very little violence, which I'm very glad about.  I think most of us are just too numb to riot at this point.  Like someone on the radio said, when we win that first title in 46+ years, there won't be rioting, it will be more like a big lovefest. 

A good neighbor story--watching our for each other:

 

Cleveland: Burglary attempt of elderly woman's home thwarted by neighbors

Paul Thomas    Updated: 7/18/2010 11:47:15 PM 

 

CLEVELAND -- Two men taken to jail Sunday may wish they would have paid more attention to a sign posted on Muriel Avenue in Cleveland.

 

"This street participates in The Neighborhood Watch Program," reads a blue and white sign about 100 feet away from Jerry Reichle's house.

 

On Sunday, Reichle and one of his neighbors likely stopped a burglary in progress on their street because they were keeping an eye on their neighborhood.

 

http://www.wkyc.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=140402&catid=3

Ugh.....  I'm sure this will open up a can of worms and then some.

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2010/07/naacp_sees_discrimination_in_e.html

 

NAACP sees discrimination in efforts to control crowds in Cleveland's Warehouse District

Ahhhh.... the old Spy Bar / Lust issue rears its head again.  Forbes is drawing some connections that are not there however.  He says his grandchildren were denied entrance to a WHD bar for wearing shoes that other white patrons were wearing.  WTF does that have to do with the police and crowd control?  That is a matter which he needs to bring up with the owners, whether privately or through legal action.

^^I've been following this very closely as well.  I haven't been down to W. 6th on a weekend in probably 5 yrs, but I used to go every weekend and had a great time with no trouble back then.  I really hope they can get this sorted out soon because it's becoming a sore subject for a lot of folks and whether the trouble is real or not, people are going to read this and stear clear.

 

The article doesn't give much background but some of the comments posted tell a much different story.  Especially the one about people walking in front of police cars while others sit back with cell phones ready to record potential missteps by police?  That's got all the ingredients for a bad situation ready to happen. 

 

One comment I thought actually made a lot of sense, in regard to people openly smoking pot on the streets & in the alleys: Bring in drug dogs to patrol the area like they did in Pittsburgh.  That'll clean stuff up real quick and tell people to head elsewhere!!!

Well, from someone that lives in the district I can tell you that it's gotten out of hand this summer.  Last summer was typical with large crowds and some rough nights, but I never witnessed any serious problems.  The last month or so has simply been out of control.  I've only been out till closing one time in that period, but the amount of people simply hanging out in the middle of the street is unbelievable.  People openly smoking pot is also an issue that the police seem to ignore.  Just last weekend, I viewed from my window two large fights happening at roughly the same time on St. Clair on either side of W6th at about 2 AM. 

 

I'm not sure exactly what happened that it got to be so rough and uncontrollable, but something needs to be done.  What I can't understand is how some people have such little respect for themselves, others, and the police when they go out.  It seems like the people heading to W6th to look for trouble is increasing exponentially.  You know the type.  They just walk down the sidewalk making no attempt to make room for people passing them... and they always have a comment for you or the girl you're with.  People need to check their attitudes and show some respect to their city and the areas where they hang out before they destroy them... again.

^Judging from the comments following the article (and I usually don't put a whole lot of stock in Cleveland.com forum comments, especially when the issue of race is involved), it seems that your opinion of how things have gone this summer is pretty much the way everyone sees it.  I have not been to the WHD at night this summer, so I can't speak to it.  I seriously hope this great entertainment district does not go the way of the east bank.  Have some balls Mayor Jackson and tell Forbes to piss off.

^ I agree.  If I'm on W 6th these days its usually for dinner or during the day for like college football.  The turning point for me was last year (2009) during March Madness being at the Barley House for the Cleveland St/Wake Forest game (when CSU won).  Good crowd for the game, good time, etc.  My group stayed for the following set of games and as those games started ending (and it approached 10/11 pm) the crowd had a distinct change occur and suddenly we were all like "we need to get out of here".  I was on guard just walking to the bathroom as the behavior in the bar became noticeably more aggressive. 

 

Can totally relate to the lack of self respect for oneself.  There's a lot of "I have nothing to lose".

^ Amen! Those who behave in such ways are profiling themselves. No one is doing it for them, except them....and IF they happen to be black, (and I said HAPPEN) and law enforcement blows the whistle on what may be illegal activity....the race card is pulled, so the behavior is left unabated. Meanwhile, anyone else would get in trouble for it, as some are apparently exempt from the law.

 

Such is a scenario I am getting pissed sick to death of..and it seems like this area of the WD is swaying to another flats situations, w..hich is why I am not a fan of making it all bar-ish establishments there. We are stupid if we ignore the correlations to attracting a percentage of these other problems...and the trouble these days that can occur is a lot worse than what it ever has been years ago.

 

Perhaps it has just a teenie tiny bit of something to do with a mass marketed "culture" that glamorizes so much that is foul/anti-social/obnoxious behavior through the music, food clothing, etc. ( to a whole new level than ever before for the sake of making money, no matter the social negative repercussions) You fill your ears, mind, stomach with garbage...you become garbage.

 

Oh, I am sooo sorry.. I'm not allowed to acknowledge reality of bad behavior in ALL people because some might interpret it as  being racist, right? Oh, how prejudiced of them to judge me like that!

 

Well...B.S. and to hell with that. As long as the behavior, or lack-thereof, has someone to rescue it from the whistle being blown on it...then the area in question will be lost.

^ Amen! Those who behave in such ways are profiling themselves. No one is doing it for them, except them....and IF they happen to be black, (and I said HAPPEN) and law enforcement blows the whistle on what may be illegal activity....the race card is pulled, so the behavior is left unabated. This is a scenario I am getting pissed sick to death of..and it seems like this area of the WD is swaying to another flats situations, which is why I am not a fan of making it all bar-ish establishments there. We are stupid if we ignore the correlations to attracting a percentage of these other problems...and the trouble these days that can occur is a lot worse than what it ever has been years ago. Perhaps it has just a tiny bit of something to do with a mass marketed "culture" that glamorizes all that is foul behavior through the music, food clothing, etc. You fill your ears, mind, stomach with garbage...you become garbage. Oh, sorry.. I'm not allowed to acknowledge reality of bad behavior in ALL people because its being racist, right? Well...B.S. and to hell with that. As long as the behavior has someone to rescue it from the whistle being blown on it...then the area in question will be lost.

 

Exactly, i agree completely. And i'm sick of the race card being pulled for everything. I bet there are white people and asians and mexicans that are all being told to leave too.

To be clear, there are white douchebags in the WHD.  When the WHD first really came about, it was more of a sophisticated, lounge crowd.  Now, it is a nightclub scene.  If you go there, you should expect to encounter drunks, witness fights, see drug use, etc. just like you would see on any district in America that has this type of club scene.  The more popular it gets, and the more crowded it gets, the more we will see this type of behavior.  Its something the City will never be able to totally rid itself of no matter what the crowd.  But I am in favor of an extremely heavy police presence during peak hours.  That is the best they can do.  And given the NAACP's approach, I would recommend that the City put cameras up covering all angles of the neighborhood so they have some kind of documentation of the behavior justifying any arrests made.

Yes, and as long as some are exempt from the laws/rules.... while others are not, then it will result in the rest looking at those who are getting away with whatever.... and ask why they're so special to get away with it...and thus, such just creates the negative perceptions that some have of others in the first place! The laws and rules apply to ALL, period! So, if they happen to be enforced on a few who happen to be black at that given time... don't deal the race card. I am sure the cops will get to the rest of the idiots out there sooner or later as well, no matter what flavor they are.

To be clear, there are and always have been white douchebags in the WHD. 

 

No one ever said there wasn't white trouble makers...and no one should come to their defense either. This does not become a "race issue" until someone pulls the race card, which is the point in question. 

To be clear, there are and always have been white douchebags in the WHD.

 

No one ever said there wasn't white trouble makers...and no one should come to their defense either. This does not become a "race issue" until someone pulls the race card, which is the point in question.

 

The police should remove anybody regardless of race who is breaking the law or creating trouble in the area. And if the person happens to be black then so be it, but it should not be be an issue.

^^Right.  It is a douchebag issue and, to an extent, it comes with the territory of this type of scene.  It just sounds to me like, contrary to what Forbes is saying, the police aren't being aggressive enough.

 

On the other hand, I don't know what you mean by "some are exempt from the laws/rules"..... are you saying the opposite of what Forbes is saying - That the authorities are not enforcing the rules/laws against Blacks, but are against other races?  Or are you just saying that is what Forbes desires (but is not reality)?

Its quite simple. I am addressing the idea/scenario that when the cops whistle is blown on someone..... or more than one and they happen to be black.... and ARE in fact behaving inappropriately that would warrant the blown whistle, so to speak.....that is it nauseating to see the race card dealt and the apologist argument come up that "blacks are being profiled" or something to that nature, AKA, "The Race Card".

 

The fact is, that anyone who is behaving in such a way that is illegal, inappropriate, anti-social, etc.... is profiling themselves and therefore deserves to have corrective measures taken. But personally, I do think that there are many (black, white, cheery, fudge ripple, or whatever flavor) who think such behavior is the norm and acceptable....and it just might come as a surprise when they are reminded that it is NOT ACCEPTABLE!, period! And as I posted above, if the cops happen to be blowing the whistle on those who happen to be black at the time...and if it is warranted to do so..... that pulling the race/profiling card is simply inappropriate. I am sure they (cops) will get to the rest of the problem makers soon enough, no matter what flavor they are!

 

On the patrols, I always thought foot or bicycle patrol is best...designated officers for that given area at certain times. Its not far to walk/bike and being outside the car, you senses become more connected with the area in question.

Well this weekend should be real interesting.  Lots of people are going to head down there to witness "something" not sure what.  Then it becomes a powder keg situation of people "waiting to see something" so if nothing happens, some idiot STARTS something.  I also wonder how many people head down there this weekend with no intention whatsoever of going in the bars, just simply to hang out and witness/cause trouble?

 

Best wishes to the Cleveland Police and legit bar owners in trying to contain the situation and prevent any trouble.

i would bet that many of the police officers in the area are black. So are they saying that black police officers are profiling black people

^^Right. It is a douchebag issue and, to an extent, it comes with the territory of this type of scene. It just sounds to me like, contrary to what Forbes is saying, the police aren't being aggressive enough.

 

I think that's pretty much it.  Start arresting people in the 1-2 am range for simply doing anything mildly stupid and the behavior will curb itself.  Police patrol is one thing; police enforcing the law is another.

^ That's right...and if the cops do their job, then I don't want to hear about them "profiling" or anything like that, end of story.... Bad behavior as the kind we're talking about that happens in this district, profiles itself.

It will be interesting to see how this situation changes with the closing of the Swing Bridge down in the flats for repairs.

 

That is a direct link between the projects at the end of 25 st and w. 6th.  Of course you can always walk across the Detroit/Superior Bridge.  And just about every bus/train in the RTA system will deposit you within a 1/4 mile of the area.

 

This comes down to a very simple premise.

 

If you don't give people who have nothing to do, something to do.  They will find something to do and you won't like it.

 

notice that statement can apply to any and all racial groups?

 

I could never ever ever understand the right wing animosity towards midnight basketball leagues.  Well actually I do... racial biases overcoming basic common sense.

 

To be clear, there are white douchebags in the WHD.  When the WHD first really came about, it was more of a sophisticated, lounge crowd.  Now, it is a nightclub scene.  If you go there, you should expect to encounter drunks, witness fights, see drug use, etc. just like you would see on any district in America that has this type of club scene.  The more popular it gets, and the more crowded it gets, the more we will see this type of behavior.  Its something the City will never be able to totally rid itself of no matter what the crowd.  But I am in favor of an extremely heavy police presence during peak hours.  That is the best they can do.  And given the NAACP's approach, I would recommend that the City put cameras up covering all angles of the neighborhood so they have some kind of documentation of the behavior justifying any arrests made.

 

IMHO, the best example of a heavily built up "club scene" is Bourbon Street in N'awlins.  I have NEVER felt unsafe there for one simple reason, heavy police presence that actually take action before things ever get out of hand.  I haven't been to the WHD during late hours, but I'm guessing that the CPD isn't being proactive enough.  If Forbe's saber rattling does anything, I hope it's to increase the activity of the police.

It will be interesting to see how this situation changes with the closing of the Swing Bridge down in the flats for repairs.

 

That is a direct link between the projects at the end of 25 st and w. 6th.  Of course you can always walk across the Detroit/Superior Bridge.  And just about every bus/train in the RTA system will deposit you within a 1/4 mile of the area.

This comes down to a very simple premise.

 

If you don't give people who have nothing to do, something to do.  They will find something to do and you won't like it.

 

notice that statement can apply to any and all racial groups?

 

I could never ever ever understand the right wing animosity towards midnight basketball leagues.  Well actually I do... racial biases overcoming basic common sense.

 

 

What the hell do the people in the Projects have to do with this?

 

I've been to the HWHD and kids of all color - black, white, Latin and Indian are drunk and acting stupid.

 

Crack down on crimes committed by all.  However, if it is proven that people of color are categorically being denied entrance or discriminated in some form, that should come out as well.

 

Hell on of our own members - a college grad - had a situation at Cadillac Ranch.

 

Hell I've been stopped by police on the way to my cousins home in the HWHD.

^^Interesting, I have heard quite the opposite about the French Quarter during closing hours.  I know they step up their presence during Mardi Gras, but there still certainly are fights and other disturbances.  They have had to shut down the street during that event sometimes when the crowd gets out of hand.  I have seen the same type of behavoir at the Mayday even in Akron for sure.  Only time in my life I have been maced and all I was doing was trying to get off the street and back to the house we had set up as 'base camp' for the night.  The cops just sprayed it to disburse the crowd.

 

On another note, feeling unsafe and being unsafe are not always the same thing.  There are more angles to this than just unruly blacks, which there certainly are.  I just hope the neighborhood does not go down the drain due to unwarranted fears.  Does anyone deny that MANY whites are, justifiably or not, intimidated by black youths?  People have to realize that fear shows on the outside and bullies, regardless of race, identify and capitalize on that fear.  They can smell the fear in a a sense just like a predator can.  Most (but not all) bullies are not actually looking for a fight.  They are looking for the guy that sucks in his chest, slumps his shoulders, and looks down to the ground while passing.  They want to embarrass you and who off in front of their friends, not fight you and risk getting arrested.  If they do insist on fighting, all I can say is I hope (win or lose) you make sure they KNOW they were just in a fight.

 

MTS you are worthy of being ignored but I will answer your question.

 

What the hell do the people in the Projects have to do with this?

 

The "perception" and the whole purpose of the meeting between Forbes and Jackson is that Young Black men are being targeted by police for law enforcement action.

 

So

 

1) are they being "enforced"

 

2) is this occurring solely because they are African American.

 

What happens when you close off the easiest route between young black men who are at loose ends and the area in question?

 

This meeting and the subsequent Law enforcement changes will skew the results but it would have been interesting to see what kind of law enforcement actions and subsequent police misconduct complaints before/after closing an easy path between the projects and the area in question.

 

The problem isn't young black men.  It is the disenfranchisement and ghettoization.  The same sets of problems occur in the slums and ghettos of Europe, except there it is Muslims (currently) Netherlands, France, Germany.  Or Eastern Europeans in Portugal, Ireland, England.

 

People of color or certain different religions are not inheritlenly bad.  People who are excluded from society with no hope and nothing to do are the problem.

 

Unemployment goes over 10% and OHHHH the wailing and gnashing of teeth, which is absolutely appropriate....except. 

 

Young black men have, and have had for a long time,  a 50% unemployment rate.  What do you think is going to happen?

 

I reiterate my point.

 

If you don't give people who have nothing to do, something to do.  They will find something to do and you won't like it.

 

It is the Projects/Slums/Ghettos that are the problem..the people those environments produce, not the color of the people inhabiting them.

 

Warehousing people so you don't have to teach/employ/engage them in society produces anti-social people......Imagine that.

 

Based on your interaction between myself and others, You will now be in my permanent ignore mode.

 

You make me cringe knowing we are on the same side.  Your mind is as open as Sarah Palin's.

Just a few thoughts.

 

The easiest solution would be to have mandatory dress codes in all of the bars and clubs.  Also the streets should be cleaned out by 3am latest with some sort of curfew law.  On the dress code, that means guys would have to wear slacks or jeans, no hats, and no baggy clothing.  I would also prohibit hip-hop nights and 18 year old nights too, if the clubs still have them there.  I don't know if this would hurt business, but at least the clubs would seem a little more refined and the overall atmosphere would be calmer.

 

Next, I don't know if Forbes is off his rocker.  Maybe there is a double standard of how cops treat black vs white party-goers.  I can't believe some gangbanger would go as far to formally complain about his treatment, which tells me that some of the complaints are probably legitimate and by good guys just trying to have fun.

 

Next, like it or not, there is a growing racial tension and disharmony on W6, and I have noticed a lot more ugly behavior by predominantly young black men.  I used to go once a week at least, but now it's closer to two or three times a month max, and I notice a level of aggressiveness that did not exist a few years ago.  The incidents mentioned in cleveland.com seem very familiar, and I'm starting to enjoy myself less and less in that area. 

 

Friends of mine living on that street and W9 have been saying these things for a long while since before I moved back to Cleveland, but I've been unwilling to admit the same since it's just....so damn depressing.  But after reading this article and subsequent comments on this and cleveland.com, I have to admit - W6 is going downhill.  Why do all of these nice places we have take a turn for the worse:(  Is West 9th next?  East 4th?

 

Finally, having gone to W6 the last few years and early/middish 2000s, I can say that I've been attacked by a UFC wannabee whiteguy at Bar Fly (for conversing with his girlfriend), pushed against a wall by some college/grad school age white guy in the Blind Pig basement (for making out with his female friend), and my date was assaulted by a black dude who had 2 of his black friends with him.  Nothing horribly traumatic and I guess you have to expect some level of adversity in areas where everyone is drunk - but still, times are 'a changin'.

 

 

Finally, having gone to W6 the last few years and early/middish 2000s, I can say that I've been attacked by a UFC wannabee whiteguy at Bar Fly (for conversing with his girlfriend), pushed against a wall by some college/grad school age white guy in the Blind Pig basement (for making out with his female friend), and my date was assaulted by a black dude who had 2 of his black friends with him. Nothing horribly traumatic and I guess you have to expect some level of adversity in areas where everyone is drunk - but still, times are 'a changin'.

 

 

Are the times 'a changin or are you 'a changin?  Generally W 6th type atmosphere is for the college mid-late 20s crowd.  The same thing that was entertaining/fun at 25 isn't quite as entertaining/fun at 35.  I wonder how much of that has an affect on ones view here?  Not to say that there aren't issues that need to be addressed, and based on cleveland.com comments they do (btw the comments for this article actually dont seem as stupid, bigotry as usual).

It's been several years now since I frequented W 6th but there were plenty of fist fights on the street then, plenty of public intox, yelling and general rowdiness.  But no thugs, whatever color thug they might be, and not the threatening, nasty looks and behavior that come with them.  We've got to stop the thugs from taking over this area or it will meet the same demise that the flats did, IMO.

The reality here is that this has nothing to do with race at all. The WHD residents, businesses, motorists (taxis, limos, civillian) have ALL been complaining to the police and politicians about how UNMANAGEABLE the street crowds are getting on W.6th. The reaction is a larger police presence on Fri,Sat nights. And what do they discover? The streets are UNMANAGEABLE because they are filled with JUVENILES who are too YOUNG to get into the bars that as previously mentioned, are loitering, not buying anything from the businesses except maybe paninis if they are even allowed in there, obstructing the street and sidewalk so people cant get past them, and harassing patrons of these establishments, because white or black, thats what juveniles do when they are in groups, become obnoxious to others. Yes, the majority of these people are locals who walk, or ride the bus down, and the predominate race of these people are black. Its so disgustingly clear to see how the media is trying to stir this up in to a Black vs Police fight. DONT fall for it. Jackson and Cimperman clearly stated why they ASKED the police to crackdown how they did which is TOO MANY COMPLAINTS OF JUVENILES HARASSING/INTERFERING WITH THE RESIDENTS AND PAYING CUSTOMERS!!!

Good question.  Being 28 now, I suppose I am starting to get a little old for that area.  Also, I definitely enjoy Tremont and E4 more since you don't go there strictly to meet people but rather to hang out.  Still, 28 isn't THAT old for W6

^ no but Im in the same boat and have noticed the same thing.  Thats what prompted my question.  Do I still enjoy a night out on w6th yeah.  Am I going every weekend like it seemed for a while, no.

It's been several years now since I frequented W 6th but there were plenty of fist fights on the street then, plenty of public intox, yelling and general rowdiness.  But no thugs, whatever color thug they might be, and not the threatening, nasty looks and behavior that come with them.  We've got to stop the thugs from taking over this area or it will meet the same demise that the flats did, IMO.

 

And that's what I guess they are saying that the places that end up doing hip-hop nights attract...(Spy and now Lush)  Of course there have been many issues over the years with the black clubs (Mirage etc..) that happen to follow the black community as well as hip-hop community, but yeah there certainly are white thugs too.  But what do you expect with a culture that glorifies brandishing guns and shooting guns. 

 

There has been alot of talk on here about the WHD not being at all like the flats, but this is what we were talking about in regard to the establishments (being like the flats). 

 

Again..  MTS, the shift from the types of places that the WHD used to be to what it has become has been a result of the erosion of the original clientele to other areas such as e4th, and 25th, so they cater to any crowd that they can get, by lowering the minimum age and having Hip-hop nights.... (they all have confirmed this).

Look, you can't tell a private property owner that he can't have a hip-hop club in his building if the area is zoned for clubs.  You just can't.  You can seek to declare it a public nuisance and shut it down if you PROVE it to be one, but you can't just rule that hip-hop is not allowed on West 6th.  A private owner can have a dress code in their particular establishment if it is evenly applied, but you can't have a dress code for West 6th.

 

There are possible solutions, but you have to be reasonable and not damn a whole community for the actions of a segment of that community.

 

Now, I have said that I am not familiar with what is going on in the WHD this summer, but I know it was never peachy and a big lovefest ever since the flats closed down.  It seems, judging from the comments here and on cleveland.com that we are dealing with a trend that is plauging society right now.  It is the mass congregration of kids (teenagers) who shouldn't be there in the first place.  A negative consequence in the age of social media.  It is akin to the flash mob thing that CH experienced at Severance Circle a month or so ago.  Never underestimate the stupidity of people in large numbers. 

I meant the club owners should have dress codes on their own.  Perhaps they could collude and ensure that everyone maintains a strict dress code, which will have a huge deterring effect on fights.  You never see guys in slacks beating on each other.

 

And if you enforce curfew laws, that should take care of some of the problems on the street itself.

 

Look, you can't tell a private property owner that he can't have a hip-hop club in his building if the area is zoned for clubs. You just can't. You can seek to declare it a public nuisance and shut it down if you PROVE it to be one, but you can't just rule that hip-hop is not allowed on West 6th. A private owner can have a dress code in their particular establishment if it is evenly applied, but you can't have a dress code for West 6th.

 

Right because then your just profiling.  In time they always get shut down due to the nuisance determination that you mention (spy, Mirage and others)  *Cimperman has actually been rather aggresive about this.... 

A private owner has the responsibility to instill whatever rules to prevent it form becoming this, but its up to them to do so....  If their bread and butter becomes serving kids and drawing crowds with hip-hop nights then they apparently are going to, and seemto ignore the negative side affects that come along with it.   

^^Are you suggesting that all of the establishments on West 6th have dress codes requiring men to wear slacks?

 

Dress codes are not the answer IMO.

 

TBideon, I agree that it'd be great if the bar owners could organize and maintain some standards of decency but it's the business and rest assured it's not just Cleveland - 98% of the time, a bar/club opens high-end and caters to said clientele, then falls out of favor and the owners then scramble to stay relevant and get people in the door.

 

Now take a street with a dozen or so owners who all got into the business for whatever reason (some to have a cool place, others to make a quick buck) and try to get them all to agree to not have 18+ nights, etc.

Hmmm, as someone who still hangs out in the WHD a few times a month, and usually late into the night on those occasions, I'm not seeing what the hubbub is about.  I usually don't go to the places that have "dress codes" (I like to wear tennis shoes and a hat most of the time), but I have heard of instances where athletes/musicians who are in town were able to skirt the dress code.  It's my understanding that whether we're talking about race or social status, the rules aren't being enforced evenly.  That's when you have problems, because then the police have to deal with the disgruntled people who were denied entry to the club.

 

Oh and Hts121, I love that you're still calling that riot at Severance a "flash mob."  By that definition, every Friday and Saturday night when things get out of control in the WHD it must be a flash mob.  Right?

Oh and Hts121, I love that you're still calling that riot at Severance a "flash mob." By that definition, every Friday and Saturday night when things get out of control in the WHD it must be a flash mob. Right?

 

Ummmm, no.  Just put aside your definition of flash mob and stop trying to pick a fight anytime the topic of CH comes up.  Someone mentioned that part of the problem in the WHD might be groups of minors who congregrate for no other purpose than to cause trouble and loiter.  They are not there to patronize any of the businesses.  That's where I drew the analogy.  This seems to be happening a lot and in massive numbers (i.e. hundreds of kids running through Wal-Mart causing hell) lately and I would suspect it is due to texting and facebook.  If you want to continue the discussion on Severance past that, put it in the right thread or PM me.  Great thing about PM is you can say all those things you always want to say but don't in fear of facing the wrath of the board.

The problem of what teens can do with their free time is not a new one, and I don't have any answers.  When I was in high school, I worked with our city's mayor and safety/service director to create a "board of directors" run by youth from various schools, middle school and high school aged kids.  The Kids Board as it was called, met twice a month with the mayor to brainstorm ideas for things the city could to so that kids wouldn't just be bored and get into trouble, which is what they do when there's nothing to do and no place to go.  Nothing was off limits in terms of ideas, and they at least agreed to research even the most outlandish ideas to see if there was a way to make them affordable (one idea - bring in sand to a park and have a 'beach' party).  It's tough.  The two major accomplishments we achieved while I was leading the board were a city-wide talent show, which took months to pull off, and rehabilitation of a large, vacant home where kids could go to hang out in a safe environment.  Do homework, relax, whatever.  We need people thinking about ideas like this in the different towns, because the families are obviously not involved and doing things as a family (many kids don't WANT to do this stuff, understandably), and there's just nothing for them to DO so they congregate where things are happening, and then cause trouble.  If there were more scheduled activities and things to participate or dedicated places to go, maybe they wouldn't hang out around bars they can't get in, trying to cause trouble.

"The problem of what teens can do with their free time is not a new one, and I don't have any answers."

 

I do, its called a job. 

 

I worked full time every summer from the time I was 15 years old.  I did agricultrual work (a tree nursery) and then factory work.  By the time I got home I was exahausted.  I couldn't afford to spend the $ becase I needed it for college.  I wasn't causing trouble at clubs and it didn't have anything to do with my parents.  Get these kids some jobs and all the problems go away. 

 

 

Also, I walked two miles to school every day in a blizzard.  Even in the summer!

By the way, what concert was at the pavilion on the west bank last night?  Downtown was flooded with a bunch of douche-baggy white teenagers.  I even saw a few of them peeing on the side of a building at W. 9th and Superior.

I also had a job as a teen, but really, there aren't that many jobs right now and most of the teenagers who loiter around causing trouble are not the type that do well on job interviews.  They don't WANT jobs, and if you start in about the parents, we're back to square 1 - the parents aren't involved, for whatever reason, so they need something to do with their time, some place to go.

By the way, what concert was at the pavilion on the west bank last night? Downtown was flooded with a bunch of douche-baggy white teenagers. I even saw a few of them peeing on the side of a building at W. 9th and Superior.

 

O.A.R.  I didn't notice any problems though...seemed like a typical college crowd.

Kid Cuddi (sp?) was downtown as well.  I know some HS kids that went down.  It was Cleveland's B-day, no?  214th if I am not mistaken.

By the way, what concert was at the pavilion on the west bank last night?  Downtown was flooded with a bunch of douche-baggy white teenagers.  I even saw a few of them peeing on the side of a building at W. 9th and Superior.

 

Citizen Cope and OAR were playing at the Pavillon. It was a great show, but I guess your bound to have a few 'douche-baggs' with a crowd that large.

By the way, what concert was at the pavilion on the west bank last night? Downtown was flooded with a bunch of douche-baggy white teenagers. I even saw a few of them peeing on the side of a building at W. 9th and Superior.

 

Citizen Cope and OAR were playing at the Pavillon. It was a great show, but I guess your bound to have a few 'douche-baggs' with a crowd that large.

 

I listened to both from my apartment and they both sounded great.  There were a few idiots walking around but I wasn't sure if it was for the OAR show or the Kid Cudi concert.  Pretty happening night downtown lastnight.

You put out rat food... you'll be bound to get some rats. Personally, I prefer the rats over the humans.

You put out rat food... you'll be bound to get some rats. Personally, I prefer the rats over the humans.

 

LOL