Another Tremont attack, and the story has a very similar feel to the Jeff Chiplis attempted murder.

 

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2010/07/off-duty_cop_shoots_at_robbers.html

 

Off-duty cop shoots at robbers in Tremont

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- An off-duty Highland Heights police officer shot at three robbers who tried to rob him early this morning.

 

Cleveland Police Spokesman Sgt. Sammy Morris said the incident occurred around 3 a.m. near West 11th Street and Fairfield Avenue in the Tremont section of Cleveland

 

 

 

 

Looks like the robbers  :shoot: picked the wrong person here.  :police: They need to be caught...and made a promise that if they keep it up..they will never go to jail, seeing that going to jail is a noble accomplishment for some of these bozos.  :lol:

Well gee, this sounds familiar:

 

Clubs fear city crackdown will stifle Washington Avenue renaissance

 

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metro/article_c35875df-5659-557a-ba47-d4df1e973a14.html

 

 

Interesting headline. It implies to me that cracking down on something that should not be going on in the first place will stifle a "renaissance?" Ha! If it takes this kind of behavior/crowd to stimulate business at the expense of the rest of the community, then maybe its time to get a new gig.

 

Classic quote: "We don't want people to think we're not concerned with the violence because we are," said manager Rob Olsen. "We just haven't been a part of the violence."  Uhhh....could it be because you think you're not responsible for anyone's behavior after they leave your club too drunk to take a poop?...OR, that just maybe because you cater to a crowd where a certain percentage has absolutely no regard for rules, laws, or other people...because this just might be what they were brought up to think is perfectly normal, instead of the dysfunction/anti-social ill-behavior that it really is? And in no way are you party to the end results? Sorry, just tired of this club/bar argument that insists no matter what they cater to, that any behavior right outside their door is NOT their responsibility. Another classic externality argument.

Frankly, I don't see what all the brouhaha is about. by my experience W. 6th has been somewhat rowdy for many years. I've never seen any all-out fistfights, though I was out the day after the shooting at the Spy Bar some years back. Every time I've been there, though, there has never, ever been anything short of complete police supervision.

 

By the way, what concert was at the pavilion on the west bank last night?  Downtown was flooded with a bunch of douche-baggy white teenagers.  I even saw a few of them peeing on the side of a building at W. 9th and Superior.

 

I don't stray from sensible dress that often but I'd encourage a little more acceptance as to dress styles of today's youth. Just because they're different doesn't mean you have to go into "old-fogey" mode and scowl at them, when they in fact could be physics PhD students. To judge them as otherwise would be prejudice. I'd bet you anything that 60% of all complaints originating from W. 6th behavior involves that age-old "get off my lawn, kids!" attitude that will never be satiated until liquor is outlawed again.

 

"The problem of what teens can do with their free time is not a new one, and I don't have any answers."

 

I do, its called a job. 

 

There really ought to be an exemption from minimum wage laws for people under 21. studies have shown that minimum wage is the number one contributor to a lack of job availability for that age group that wants to work for extra spending money and doesn't need to worry about putting food on the table.

 

Sorry, just tired of this club/bar argument that insists no matter what they cater to, that any behavior right outside their door is NOT their responsibility. Another classic externality argument.

 

It's irresponsible from a business standpoint as well. Fights on the street tend to drive paying customers away, and if bouncers standing outside clubs knew better, they'd do their best to keep the peace themselves. especially considering the general negative attitude toward cops most of today's youth shares.

 

 

^ Good points. One thing on the job component....  There are some people who no matter what, don't want to work, even if they're paid well. They'd rather get involved with some of the antics we're talking about here.

 

I disagree on the dress component. Those who dress the way we are talking about (with the crap catchers on)....are all too often associated with problematic behavior, because the very inspiration for that style is prison related. If anyone denies this I suggest they do some digging to explore that subculture of what that stuff really means. (baggy-prison like attire...drop your pants as a symbol of "offering" for protection) I am sure many who wear this stuff are not even aware, because we have so many followers.

 

While certainly granted... not everyone may be up to, or associated with no good who dresses as such, many ARE....and so the associations come from a regularly observed percentage of often projected behaviors by those who are choosing to dress like that...so, I say again, in the bigger picture, they essentially create the profiling for themselves because of the all too often associations with anti-social behavior....

 

And recognizing the obvious and reality has nothing to do with going "old fogey" (I loathed this behavior since I was in High School)  it has to do with listening to your gut instincts (that protect one from potentially adverse situations) and being observant in this world. If they are the next Einsteins in the classroom (doubt it though when the vocabulary is so limited) then great. Too bad the bad behavior undermines that part of the picture, though.

 

Also too bad that the "young fogey" is often too stubborn to admit he/she can learn anything from someone who has lived life a hell of a lot longer than they have.

As for the "prison-related" style--

 

--if you were to pay a visit to one of the 'better' suburban high schools, you might be surprised to see what the products of $100,000 household incomes are wearing today.

 

While there might be some evidence that certain styles of dress are supposed to indicate a certain propensity for crime, it cannot be conclusive. Some styles become popular to the point where they lose their meaning, or their meaning to begin with was mere urban legend. Think about the urban legends associated with men wearing earrings, which many used to think was a conclusory sign that the wearer was homosexual. And of course, for those who adjudged it a social ill, also condemned the practice of wearing earrings. Certainly, that's not the case now, if it ever was.

 

We have to be careful to separate dress style and lawful behavior from a propensity to commit unlawful behavior. When we do too much of this, we create divisiveness and cultivate mutual hatred, which does nobody any good. To a greater extent, it's very similar to the kind of attitude that cultivates racial tensions.

^ You have every right to sugar coat it, and make it look all rosy, but I see if for what it is. Obnoxious with nothing socially redeeming. I have witnessed the associated behavior daily...to the point my life was threatened and I have seen it repeatedly..... Should I not form an opinion then when I see these kinds starting to lurk in my direction?

 

Why do you think deer have become nocturnal? It is because of what they have witnessed in humans hunting them...they are even smart enough to make a negative association by observing repeated behavior---in that they know they're being hunted. As a human animal in this kingdom we do the same. Again, no one is profiling these people but themselves by what they choose to commonly associate with. If they don't want negative attention, then quit acting like imbeciles.

 

Also, the style/influence (a lot of it cultivated from dysfunction made to look cool by big marketing--See PBS "Merchants Of Cool") is mass marketed to city, suburban and beyond and therefore gets a wide array of customers and I have found nearly all of them to be douche bags no matter what flavor they are. And because most have been, there is no reason I need to give them my respect and/or trust from the get go. I will always look at those like this as a possible potential spark of trouble, and until they can earn my trust, they don't get it and I do not need to give it, as I reserve that right.

 

Trust is a sacred and cherished thing that is to be earned, not bullied/demanded... with obnoxious foul mouth poet of limited vocabulary... audio assault/terrorism by some idiot wearing crap catchers roving by my house at three AM shaking it off its foundation. I won't ignore what is obvious and the comparisons you draw are by no means comparable to this new type of anti-social behavior that takes things to a whole new level.

 

Until we stop drawing this profiling card...or race card as some will (but this is not race, because so many engage/buy into this sort of thing, no matter what flavor)...such bails out what is unacceptable behavior and we will therefore never be able to make a dent in restoring reasonable peace to neighborhoods when we keep sending the message that it is OK to behave inappropriately/illegally.

 

Anyone get a chance. Here it is again..Look what this caters to and promotes. Nothing about music delivery system..rather, they promote a "noise weapon" and anti-social behavior... Oh, and look at a bit of some of the clothing, by the way. And there is wonder why profiles are formed.  http://www.noiseoff.org/ads.php

As for the "prison-related" style--

 

--if you were to pay a visit to one of the 'better' suburban high schools, you might be surprised to see what the products of $100,000 household incomes are wearing today.

 

While there might be some evidence that certain styles of dress are supposed to indicate a certain propensity for crime, it cannot be conclusive. Some styles become popular to the point where they lose their meaning, or their meaning to begin with was mere urban legend. Think about the urban legends associated with men wearing earrings, which many used to think was a conclusory sign that the wearer was homosexual. And of course, for those who adjudged it a social ill, also condemned the practice of wearing earrings. Certainly, that's not the case now, if it ever was.

 

We have to be careful to separate dress style and lawful behavior from a propensity to commit unlawful behavior. When we do too much of this, we create divisiveness and cultivate mutual hatred, which does nobody any good. To a greater extent, it's very similar to the kind of attitude that cultivates racial tensions.

 

EC is correct the "sag" and to a degree the grunge/x games style of clothing are products of prison, bad boy culture.

 

I - a shopaholic/fashionito - can't stand it.  and I've always love fashion forward kids, but Calvin Klein started a "trend" that has gotten way out of hand.

As for the "prison-related" style--

 

--if you were to pay a visit to one of the 'better' suburban high schools, you might be surprised to see what the products of $100,000 household incomes are wearing today.

 

As someone who came from "one of the better suburban high schools" I can tell you a couple of things:

 

1.  The people who dressed themselves in the "prison-related" fashion were intentionally dressing that way to match their persona...which generally fit the stereotype.  They weren't doing it because it was more comfortable to bang out all nighters while studying for their calculus exam.

 

2.  These same people typically did not amount to much after high school.

 

The old addage stands at any point in your life...dress for the job you want not the job you have.

I still don't think it's right to judge someone based on their clothing.  You're making a value judgment based on arbitrary standards as to whether that kind of dress is a result of desirable versus undesirable "culture." In other words, it looks ugly, so you dislike it and you dislike the person. Are we out to kill creativity and independence already?

 

The worst criminals these days seem to prefer Armani suits, at any rate.

there are a lot of things that aren't "right" or "fair" in the world, but if you dress like a gangster or prisoner, you're going to be treated like one.  When I dressed in all black and was a punker, I got followed around whenever I went into a retail store.  When I quit dressing like that, nobody followed me.  Life is not a costume party.  If you want to get into a nice club, dress up. I think half the losers in traffic court could get their tickets knocked down or dismissed if they didn't dress like shit.  Life isn't about FAIR. If you go around whining about what's not "fair" your whole life and continue to do whatever you want instead of what's socially acceptable, you won't get very far.

You should not try to insult anyone with your outfit - i.e. going before a judge with a tank top and flip-flops.  Give respect when due.  Don't wear a white dress to a wedding (unless you are the bride).  Don't wear electric blue to a funeral.  Other than that, I try not to be judgmental of someone's outfit, whether it is a large girl with clothes on that are 2 sizes too small or a small guy with clothes on that are 2 sizes too big.  It's freedom of expression as far as I'm concerned and I have no interest in going back to the 1940's-1950's when everyone looked the same.

 

Here's a hint though for those concerned.  The really good criminals will not appear to be criminals at all.  If you spend your time trying to identify criminals by the way they dress, you are going to not notice the one who just ran away with your life savings.

I still don't think it's right to judge someone based on their clothing.  You're making a value judgment based on arbitrary standards as to whether that kind of dress is a result of desirable versus undesirable "culture." In other words, it looks ugly, so you dislike it and you dislike the person. Are we out to kill creativity and independence already?

 

The worst criminals these days seem to prefer Armani suits, at any rate.

 

While clothing may be arbitrary, appearance is not.  I didn't come to my job interview wearing shorts and sandals...or even business casual which is the stadard for employees who work here.  I showed up in a suit.  I suspect you follow the same standards in your own life, dressing for the occassion.

 

I think half the losers in traffic court could get their tickets knocked down or dismissed if they didn't dress like sh!t. 

 

Funny you mention that...I went to court to fight a traffic ticket dressed in a suit.  I can't tell you how many times people who were there for whatever violation (and dressed like crap) asked me for directions or what happens next.  They thought I was an attorney.  Nope; I was there for the same reason as them...except I was prepared and informed (and I won my case)...and I dressed the part...and so did they. 

^ You are not going to like this, and it is not a solicitation to argue or said with malice, but you that last statement when it comes to some people dressing the part, is not entirely true. Many really ARE exactly as they appear. We cannot ignore the correlations...and yes, granted, it makes the innocent who are not involved in anything wrong but who may be dressed a particular way, look bad. But that is life and no matter what you say, people ...ALL people judge others based on actions, words, dress, behavior, etc...  You are judging as well when and if you assume someone is racist/prejudiced or profiling just because what they say does not conform to what your idea of a non-racist or profiler is. Those who dress the crap catcher "gamgsta" part and actually ARE involved in wrong doing.... are usually too stupid to realize that their dress is a dead give away. You apologize and run to the defense of this so often, but  wonder how much time you have really spent walking the streets to get a real life's lesson as to the correlations this influence has to illegal/anti-social and criminal behavior. Cops figure this out but are reprimanded when they try to do their jobs and enforce the law. Its easy to peck the keys and speak safely about it from behind the screen...but being exposed to some of this stuff on a daily basis like people who live next to it...and police, presents a whole other view of the darkside to this so called "innocent fun".....and if you think that all these individuals associated with what is a drug related culture... are just a bunch of nice fellas, then I really hope that you don't end up getting hurt.

I still don't think it's right to judge someone based on their clothing.  You're making a value judgment based on arbitrary standards as to whether that kind of dress is a result of desirable versus undesirable "culture." In other words, it looks ugly, so you dislike it and you dislike the person. Are we out to kill creativity and independence already?

 

The worst criminals these days seem to prefer Armani suits, at any rate.

 

But technically..and this could get really to the point of a tip for a tap....your judging others by saying "they're judging" and while it may not be right, its simply the way it is. It is human nature and without it, we'd not be able to avoid what we may see as potentially harmful scenarios.

 

If I walked up to you and started slobbering a bunch of foul mouthed yawp...you would certainly have some kind of judgment or first/impression me...and if I dressed a certain way, and others did as well and were frequently doing the same thing to you...  Do you not think you would eventually form some sort of opinion? Or will you keep telling yourself otherwise?

 

Tell you what, I will make this easy.....I AM judging..so what's the point? I judge people based on their behavior and actions (just like they form an opinion of me by being observant as I am sure many here already have exercised that "prejudiced" side of themselves by assuming I am a racist/profiler) and if it is foul and anti-social, and if the shoe fits...then the only person they have to blame for causing any "judging" is the person who was behaving in such a way that would warrant a fast opinion of themselves. Just live next to a place like the one in question on a regular basis and the blinders will come off......

 

Unless one is simply pretending in la-la land that all is swell in Dodge... or maybe not paying attention at all...then opinions will be formed, but most are simply too afraid to admit it. But personally, I will not give up my freedom to have a view on this or hold my opinions/observations on this to myself, just because it does not conform to what someone else's idea of what a non-profiler/racist is. I guess I'd rather be disliked for who I am..than liked for who I am not, just for the sake of getting along. We can be so overly politically correct that the truth ends up getting buried.

^ You are not going to like this, and it is not a solicitation to argue or said with malice, but you that last statement when it comes to some people dressing the part, is not entirely true. Many really ARE exactly as they appear. We cannot ignore the correlations...and yes, granted, it makes the innocent who are not involved in anything wrong but who may be dressed a particular way, look bad. But that is life and no matter what you say, people ...ALL people judge others based on actions, words, dress, behavior, etc...  You are judging as well when and if you assume someone is racist/prejudiced or profiling just because what they say does not conform to what your idea of a non-racist or profiler is. Those who dress the crap catcher "gamgsta" part and actually ARE involved in wrong doing.... are usually too stupid to realize that their dress is a dead give away. You apologize and run to the defense of this so often, but  wonder how much time you have really spent walking the streets to get a real life's lesson as to the correlations this influence has to illegal/anti-social and criminal behavior. Cops figure this out but are reprimanded when they try to do their jobs and enforce the law. Its easy to peck the keys and speak safely about it from behind the screen...but being exposed to some of this stuff on a daily basis like people who live next to it...and police, presents a whole other view of the darkside to this so called "innocent fun".....and if you think that all these individuals associated with what is a drug related culture... are just a bunch of nice fellas, then I really hope that you don't end up getting hurt.

 

Are you talking to me?  I hope not.  Do you have ANY idea what I do?  'You are not going to like this, and it is not a solicitation to argue or said with malice' but, hint - it ain't cleaning out fish tanks and designing storefront windows...  Don't lecture me on cops and robbers, acting like I am some sort of naive idealist.  In all likelihood, I've forgotten more about the subject than you will ever know.

Guys, we're done with the discussion on apparel.  Back on topic.

What a tragedy!  This woman seems like she was really doing something with her life.  From the article:  "Hunter, 42, was the founder of the Bedford Heights marriage and family counseling service Success1, as well as a part-time teacher at area colleges. She was working on a Ph.D at the University of Akron."

 

Husband accused of stabbing counselor to death had threatened to kill her

Published: Tuesday, July 27, 2010, 5:30 PM   

Updated: Tuesday, July 27, 2010, 5:56 PM

Patrick O'Donnell, The Plain Dealer

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The Cleveland man accused of stabbing his wife -- a marriage and family counselor -- to death Sunday had threatened to kill her in March.

 

Maurice Lyons was also wanted for violating a court order that he be fitted for a monitoring device that was to ensure he stayed away from her.

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2010/07/husband_accused_of_stabbing_co.html

19 Action News Story  - "Flats Attack - Two Men Vicously Beaten Downtown"

 

http://www.woio.com/global/story.asp?s=12913618

 

Not sure if anyone else saw this last night on the news but I did and it was shocking.  I guess that was the reaction that 19 Action News wanted the viewers to have.  Only problem is, the attack didn't occur in the Flats or even downtown, as the headline and reporter would have readers believe.  In fact, during the broadcast last night, the reporter was even standing on a busy corner downtown, talking about how downtown needs more cops to prevent such attacks.

 

First off, the attack was at W. 25th & Division.  This is neither downtown nor the Flats.  It's the projects, CMHA's Lakeview Terrace. 

 

Second, why didn't the reporter come right out and say where the attack occurred?  If the story finishes by asking for witnesses, give a true description of the area.  Instead, they sensationalize it by painting all of downtown and the flats with this image of unsafe.  So ridiculous.  During the story, they even flashed photos of other bars down town as if to say that is where the attack occurred.

 

Finally, the victims were two young white men, obviously in the wrong place at the wrong time.  No description of the attackers either?  Age, race, clothing?  How are people seriously supposed to help identify them?  These two guys got viciously assaulted and beaten so badly the one guy's skull was fractured!!!  For what?  Insanity!  Following a week of news about the NAACP protesting cops & clubs on W. 6th and demanding a meeting with the mayor, where is the public outcry about this story?

 

Sorry, but I'm so upset by this entire segment for so many reasons, I just had to vent.

Shame on 19 Action News, but this is what we have come to expect from them.  It is the most tabloid-esque news outlet we have.

 

I'm not sure I understand your point about the NAACP though.  Are you suggesting that there would be a public outcry if the victims were black?  I don't know about that.  I highly doubt beatings of young black men in and near the projects gets much media attention, if any at all.

I emailed pretty much the same comments to the reporter at 19 Action News along with the news dept manager and the editor.  Probably nothing will come of it but that seriously is one of the worst stories I've seen about Cleveland in recent history.

"Brian says he'll never come back to downtown."

 

That's the most unfortunate line in the whole story, but you can't really blame the media source for printing it if that is what the guy said to them.

I agree - this guy got beaten within an inch of his life. I wouldn't come back downtown either, and I live in Cleveland. I can't believe the main thing you are taking away from this story is anger at the media. Seems selfish to me.

^It is a shame for the two men who were beaten, but the story is so inaccurate that it bears some mentioning.  This didn't happen Downtown, it happened in the projects north of W. 25th.  It'd be a bit like getting jumped in Rocky River on your way home from Westlake and deciding that one was never going to go back to Westlake because of it, and having the media report on it as if it had indeed happened in Westlake.  Of course Westlake interests are going to be upset!

It is one bridge away from being downtown. No, it isn't public square, but yes, I would consider the Flats a neighborhood of downtown. Splitting hairs here. He almost died. I still can't believe the media is who you are angry with.

The downtown Alliance or Flats Oxbow Association or someone should get together and blast 19 Action for that report.  If I was one of bar owners who's place was shown during that segment I'd be ready to sue for slander.

Who said I'm not angry with the thugs who did this?  Of course I am, but I doubt that I can write them an angry letter.  We can't hold them accountable for their crime in the same way that we can hold the media accountable for false reporting.  It's been said several times this didn't happen in the Flats, it happened in Lakeview Terrace, a CMHA project.  Look at a map, that's right in the middle of the projects, not in the Flats, certainly not Downtown.

I agree - this guy got beaten within an inch of his life. I wouldn't come back downtown either, and I live in Cleveland. I can't believe the main thing you are taking away from this story is anger at the media. Seems selfish to me.

 

You wouldn't go to Playhouse Square, or the Q, or 4th Street, etc. if you got beaten up on W. 25th and Division?  What if you got beat up at Beachwood Mall?  Would you never go to the City of Beachwood again?

 

Not sure where in the H-E-double hockey sticks the "selfish" comment comes from.  What exactly is selfish about blasting the media for publishing a misleading story?.... which, if you haven't noticed, has been edited since it was first printed.

 

We always tell people on here that you have to be aware in urban settings.  Getting lost and winding up in or near the projects is a perfect example.  I feel terrible for these guys and I am not blaming them at all.  Unfortunately, for the people that have to actually live there, this is a non-story because people get jumped in the projects all the f'in time.... although it takes victims like these for there to actually be a story about it.

I don't know where "division" is, can someone throw out a landmark or describe it better?

I don't know where "division" is, can someone throw out a landmark or describe it better?

 

Go to W. 25th and Detroit.  Start walking north on W. 25th and walk under the shoreway bridge to the other side.  You are now in the approximate area.

I don't know where "division" is, can someone throw out a landmark or describe it better?

 

People have said several times now it's in the CMHA projects (Lakeview Terrace.)  Google Maps can show you exactly where.

North of Route 2 up the hill from the West Bank of the Flats.  If you get off Route 2 and loop around to go to the flats, you pass right by these housing projects.  Anyone who knows anything about the City knows to not wander about around there.  Here, http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=cleveland+ohio&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=21.319447,37.705078&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Cleveland,+Cuyahoga,+Ohio&ll=41.493712,-81.70927&spn=0.004902,0.009205&z=16

 

 

19 Action News Story  - "Flats Attack - Two Men Vicously Beaten Downtown"

 

http://www.woio.com/global/story.asp?s=12913618

 

Not sure if anyone else saw this last night on the news but I did and it was shocking.  I guess that was the reaction that 19 Action News wanted the viewers to have.  Only problem is, the attack didn't occur in the Flats or even downtown, as the headline and reporter would have readers believe.  In fact, during the broadcast last night, the reporter was even standing on a busy corner downtown, talking about how downtown needs more cops to prevent such attacks.

 

First off, the attack was at W. 25th & Division.  This is neither downtown nor the Flats.  It's the projects, CMHA's Lakeview Terrace. 

 

Second, why didn't the reporter come right out and say where the attack occurred?  If the story finishes by asking for witnesses, give a true description of the area.  Instead, they sensationalize it by painting all of downtown and the flats with this image of unsafe.  So ridiculous.  During the story, they even flashed photos of other bars down town as if to say that is where the attack occurred.

 

Finally, the victims were two young white men, obviously in the wrong place at the wrong time.  No description of the attackers either?  Age, race, clothing?  How are people seriously supposed to help identify them?  These two guys got viciously assaulted and beaten so badly the one guy's skull was fractured!!!  For what?  Insanity!  Following a week of news about the NAACP protesting cops & clubs on W. 6th and demanding a meeting with the mayor, where is the public outcry about this story?

 

Sorry, but I'm so upset by this entire segment for so many reasons, I just had to vent.

 

Are you implying that the perps are "people of color" and the victims, who are white, were in the wrong place at the wrong time and innocent?  Why were they in the area?

 

Granted the location, crime and reporting are all horrible.

Anyone who knows anything about the City knows to not wander about around there.

 

Agreed, but the article says that they didn't know anything about the area.  They were lost, and ended up in a place that one doesn't want to be in.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm implying.  They were in the area because they were visiting from out of town and took a wrong turn after walking out of the West Bank Flats toward their friend's house.

 

Hts121 - what has been edited?

19 Action News Story  - "Flats Attack - Two Men Vicously Beaten Downtown"

 

http://www.woio.com/global/story.asp?s=12913618

 

First off, the attack was at W. 25th & Division.  This is neither downtown nor the Flats.  It's the projects, CMHA's Lakeview Terrace. 

 

 

It is the projects, but that's part of the West Bank.  It's the voting precinct for the area.  It's basically at the top of the hill if you're walking up Main Ave from Harbor Inn or McCarthy's (which is what these guys were doing).  The housing units back right up to Mulberry's.

Sorry, "Lakeview Terrace" doesn't mean anything to me so I was hoping for something clearer.  Yes, I could map it, Hts121 provided a good map but it was really his explanation that makes it clear to me where it is, the map didn't do it.  In other words, it's kind of by St. Malachi, yes?

Even if the victims were looking to score some drugs, they are still innocent in the beating IMO.  I would like to know where their friends house was that they were walking to.

Sorry, "Lakeview Terrace" doesn't mean anything to me so I was hoping for something clearer.  Yes, I could map it, Hts121 provided a good map but it was really his explanation that makes it clear to me where it is, the map didn't do it.  In other words, it's kind of by St. Malachi, yes?

 

Yes, it's on the other side of the shoreway bridge from St. Malachi.

19 Action News Story  - "Flats Attack - Two Men Vicously Beaten Downtown"

 

http://www.woio.com/global/story.asp?s=12913618

 

First off, the attack was at W. 25th & Division.  This is neither downtown nor the Flats.  It's the projects, CMHA's Lakeview Terrace. 

 

 

It is the projects, but that's part of the West Bank.  It's the voting precinct for the area.  It's basically at the top of the hill if you're walking up Main Ave from Harbor Inn or McCarthy's (which is what these guys were doing).  The housing units back right up to Mulberry's.

 

If they were at Division and 25th, they still would have had to have taken a wrong turn, at either the beginning of their trip, or at the top of the hill.  You wouldn't cross through Lakeview otherwise, you'd pass by it.

there are several lakeview terrace buildings on the east side of 25th... walking on 25th north of the bridge is practically walking right through the middle of the projects.

I always liked the architecture of these places, a wierd 1930's/1940's vision of the future.  I like the site as well with views going down the hill.  I wonder if they would make a good market rate garden style apartment complex for normal people. 

The point is it's not a whole lot different from the sketchy parts of E 12th/13th at night...and we're not suddenly declaring that E 12th is no longer a part of downtown.

But unless they took a wrong turn, they wouldn't be on W. 25th north of the bridge.  The fastest way from any of the Westbank nightlife to anything but Lakeview Terrace is up Main Ave, south of the bridge, not in the projects.  At any rate, they were either lost, or intentionally in the projects in the middle of the night.

The point is it's not a whole lot different from the sketchy parts of E 12th/13th at night...and we're not suddenly declaring that E 12th is no longer a part of downtown.

 

I still don't get the point.  E 12th is part of downtown.  W 25th is not.  I would, however, argue that this part of W 25th is indeed different than E 12th/13th at night.  I would and have walked down those two streets at night (staying mindful of surrounding of course).  I would never venture into Lakeview Terraces at night..... or during the day for that matter.

 

I always liked the architecture of these places, a wierd 1930's/1940's vision of the future.  I like the site as well with views going down the hill.  I wonder if they would make a good market rate garden style apartment complex for normal people. 

 

I am going to report you to the local PC Board in Seattle for that one.

I've lived here almost all my adult life and did not know there were projects there. In fact, I didn't know anyone lived over there at all, that there were any type of residences in that area.

I've lived here almost all my adult life and did not know there were projects there. In fact, I didn't know anyone lived over there at all, that there were any type of residences in that area.

 

For those of us that take the shoreway to the West Bank, you practically have to drive right by these project every time.  One of the worst mistakes in City planning history.  I imagine they thought it would be OK to put the projects there because of the industrial site immediately to the north, but IMO these projects frustrates developement of the entire West Bank, which would have so much more potential otherwise.

The point is it's not a whole lot different from the sketchy parts of E 12th/13th at night...and we're not suddenly declaring that E 12th is no longer a part of downtown.

 

Sorry, but Lakeview Terrace has much more crime than any neighborhood downtown.  I just checked crimereports.com.

 

7 assaults and 2 robberies in the last 2 weeks reported.  And that doesn't include the one from this story (too new to show up I suppose).

 

E. 9th St. to E. 15th St. from Euclid Ave. up to Superior Ave., spanning a much larger area, had 1 assault and 1 robbery in the same time period.  These trends hold up for some other date ranges I checked.

I never really hung out much in the flats so perhaps that's why.  When I did go down, it was mostly to the E side.  The only place I've really frequented multiple times on the W bank is the former rock bottom, which I was driven to for lunch several times by a friend who liked to go there, and christie's, which I haven't been to in a few years.