Hate crimes separate out the mental state of the offender. If you are going to get rid of them then why not get rid of different degrees of murder?  A murder would be a murder regardless of whether it was pre-meditated or not

 

"A murder would be a murder regardless of whether it was pre-meditated or not". This is a wrong statement because all murder is pre-meditated, there is no "or not".

 

Murder and Kill have been so intertwined in society/the news/etc., that people think they are one and the same. They are not, and our government recognizes this. That is why there are different laws for murdering someone vs killing someone.

 

This statement is legally incorrect.  Not all murder is premeditated.  Most states in the US (as with most common-law countries) will typically reserve the highest level of murder (say, 1st degree murder) for premeditated acts.  A murder in the heat of the moment will often be second-degree murder, but it is still murder. 

 

Now, if you want to say all murder is volitional, that may have some water.  But saying all murder is premeditated is wrong under the law. 

If the perpetrators of any crime are punished properly, there is no need for hate crime legislation.  It doesn't really matter the reason someone is dragged behind a car, or tied to a post and beaten.  Just punish the offenders justly.

 

Agreed.  "Hate crime" legislation simply means politically incorrect crimes are punished more harshly than others.  It's the flip side of the criminalization of dissent.  The two together consititute the politicization of law enforcement, an extremely dangerous trend.

 

Why wasn't this publicized sooner?  Two words:  Sweet Sixteen.

 

Literally centuries of common-law jurisprudence (dating well back to before our founding) have been premised on punishing the mental state of the offender (the mens rea) as the primary motivator for criminal law.  That's why the exact same act can have such different consequences; running over someone with your car because you are negligent might be a crime, but running over someone with your car with the intent of killing them is quite another thing, and subject to a more severe punishment. 

 

 

^I think you're playing a little fast in loose, though, by conflating intent with motive.  Other than self defense and other justified homicide doctrine, I don't think there's much of a common law history that focuses on motive. I don't have strong feelings on this topic either way, but I think there are reasonable arguments on both sides.

^ To each his own, but my point is not really so much about motive than the talking point that "we shouldn't punish people for what they are thinking, and only for what they do."  The fact of the matter is that what people are thinking when they commit a crime--the culpable mental state--is and always has been a significant aspect of what the criminal law looks to punish in common law societies. 

 

What the hell?  So how this is handled should indicate to us if the police possess or lack vital integrity.  Will be interesting to see if they actually investigate or look the other way - given that the assailant seems to have been involved with the police benefit.

 

Cleveland man pummeled by tuxedo-clad attacker after police charity event outside Playhouse Square

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- A tuxedo-clad man and two others jumped a college basketball fan early Sunday morning outside a downtown Cleveland hotel that was the site of a black-tie police scholarship fundraiser. 

 

Steven Crupp went to the Wyndham at Playhouse Square to meet a friend for drinks after the NCAA Elite 8 game, but left on a stretcher.

 

The beating came near the end of Salute to Our Heroes, an annual benefit auction organized by the Greater Cleveland Police Scholarship Fund. No arrests have been made, and it's unclear whether Cleveland police have reached out to hotel management to obtain security footage from the night in question.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2015/04/cleveland_man_pummeled_by_tuxe_1.html#incart_river

What the hell?  So how this is handled should indicate to us if the police possess or lack vital integrity.  Will be interesting to see if they actually investigate or look the other way - given that the assailant seems to have been involved with the police benefit.

 

Cleveland man pummeled by tuxedo-clad attacker after police charity event outside Playhouse Square

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- A tuxedo-clad man and two others jumped a college basketball fan early Sunday morning outside a downtown Cleveland hotel that was the site of a black-tie police scholarship fundraiser. 

 

Steven Crupp went to the Wyndham at Playhouse Square to meet a friend for drinks after the NCAA Elite 8 game, but left on a stretcher.

 

The beating came near the end of Salute to Our Heroes, an annual benefit auction organized by the Greater Cleveland Police Scholarship Fund. No arrests have been made, and it's unclear whether Cleveland police have reached out to hotel management to obtain security footage from the night in question.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2015/04/cleveland_man_pummeled_by_tuxe_1.html#incart_river

 

What is going on in Cleveland? It's becoming like St. Louis; you read about some asinine crime every other day now.  I had friends from Youngstown who went up during the tournament and they said downtown didn't seem to market itself well to out-of-towners.  You have all these people visiting you would think the city would actually try to impress them.  Wonder how the RNC will turn out if this is how Cleveland goes about an NCAA tournament round.

 

How many murders is the city currently at?  You read about one almost everyday, but the Plain Dealer never lists the stats of where the city stands on murder count.

 

What is going on in Cleveland? It's becoming like St. Louis; you read about some asinine crime every other day now.  I had friends from Youngstown who went up during the tournament and they said downtown didn't seem to market itself well to out-of-towners.  You have all these people visiting you would think the city would actually try to impress them.  Wonder how the RNC will turn out if this is how Cleveland goes about an NCAA tournament round.

 

How many murders is the city currently at?  You read about one almost everyday, but the Plain Dealer never lists the stats of where the city stands on murder count.

 

I wouldn't go that far.  This isn't a city dude...it sounds like a drunk suburbanite out on the town, had a few too many of the liquid courage and was slighted by the guy.  It's more disturbing to me that CPD has not responded to him.  Some hotel video and a guest list from the event should make this an easy case. 

 

What is going on in Cleveland? It's becoming like St. Louis; you read about some asinine crime every other day now.  I had friends from Youngstown who went up during the tournament and they said downtown didn't seem to market itself well to out-of-towners.  You have all these people visiting you would think the city would actually try to impress them.  Wonder how the RNC will turn out if this is how Cleveland goes about an NCAA tournament round.

 

How many murders is the city currently at?  You read about one almost everyday, but the Plain Dealer never lists the stats of where the city stands on murder count.

 

Just out of curiosity, how does a city market itself to out-of-towners who are already there?  I understand the need for a marketing and coordination entity like Destination Cleveland but I've travelled a good deal and have never gotten the impression, even in the most "successful" cities, that anyone cared who I was or why I was there - even remotely, and I didn't expect them to.

 

Our yearly murder count has hovered around 100 for the past couple years.  As in all other cities of the western world, the per capita violent crime rate is a fraction of what it was when it peaked in the mid 90s and has steadily declined since.

Nothing really has changed in terms of crime. We have a few bizarre situations per year.  Doesn't deter me from anything and I wouldn't lose sleep over it.

 

As far as marketing the city, they do a fairly good job. The city is just not laid out like a bigger metropolis. The talent in Cleveland for food, drinks, experience is equivalent to the best cities in America, it's just not at every corner. So if you come to cleveland, you have to put in a little work to figure out where to go.  I walked around Thursday before the games and i said to myself, it's just a much better place to live than it is to be a visitor.

Always striking to me how little changed in Cleveland after 137 shots. Captured some of that in this piece in http://t.co/YJ9GPIxg6m

What the hell?  So how this is handled should indicate to us if the police possess or lack vital integrity.  Will be interesting to see if they actually investigate or look the other way - given that the assailant seems to have been involved with the police benefit.

 

Cleveland man pummeled by tuxedo-clad attacker after police charity event outside Playhouse Square

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- A tuxedo-clad man and two others jumped a college basketball fan early Sunday morning outside a downtown Cleveland hotel that was the site of a black-tie police scholarship fundraiser. 

 

Steven Crupp went to the Wyndham at Playhouse Square to meet a friend for drinks after the NCAA Elite 8 game, but left on a stretcher.

 

The beating came near the end of Salute to Our Heroes, an annual benefit auction organized by the Greater Cleveland Police Scholarship Fund. No arrests have been made, and it's unclear whether Cleveland police have reached out to hotel management to obtain security footage from the night in question.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2015/04/cleveland_man_pummeled_by_tuxe_1.html#incart_river

 

What is going on in Cleveland? It's becoming like St. Louis; you read about some asinine crime every other day now.  I had friends from Youngstown who went up during the tournament and they said downtown didn't seem to market itself well to out-of-towners.  You have all these people visiting you would think the city would actually try to impress them.  Wonder how the RNC will turn out if this is how Cleveland goes about an NCAA tournament round.

 

How many murders is the city currently at?  You read about one almost everyday, but the Plain Dealer never lists the stats of where the city stands on murder count.

 

Let's be real, the PeeDee, as well as none of the rest of the local media, didn't even talk about the St. Patrick's Day wildings until after the NCAA was gone.

 

Do they think they will get away with that when the RNC gets closer?

What is going on in Cleveland? It's becoming like St. Louis; you read about some asinine crime every other day now.  I had friends from Youngstown who went up during the tournament and they said downtown didn't seem to market itself well to out-of-towners.  You have all these people visiting you would think the city would actually try to impress them.  Wonder how the RNC will turn out if this is how Cleveland goes about an NCAA tournament round.

 

How many murders is the city currently at?  You read about one almost everyday, but the Plain Dealer never lists the stats of where the city stands on murder count.

 

Just out of curiosity, how does a city market itself to out-of-towners who are already there?  I understand the need for a marketing and coordination entity like Destination Cleveland but I've travelled a good deal and have never gotten the impression, even in the most "successful" cities, that anyone cared who I was or why I was there - even remotely, and I didn't expect them to.

 

Our yearly murder count has hovered around 100 for the past couple years.  As in all other cities of the western world, the per capita violent crime rate is a fraction of what it was when it peaked in the mid 90s and has steadily declined since.

 

Market was the wrong word.  I should have said showcase the city to the out-of-towners who otherwise wouldn't be visiting Cleveland.  I can't tell you how many times I have met people who wouldn't have gone to Cleveland, but left having nothing but positive things to say about the city and had planned another visit.  I took friends from Orlando up about two months ago and we walked past The 9 and they were amazing by the big city atmosphere.  Their exact words were "we do not have anything like this in Florida" because there were people all over the sidewalks and waiting to cross the streets, traffic backed up on East 9th, a streetwall (is that a word?) of buildings up and down 9th and Euclid, and a range of architecture and activities. 

 

There's no doubt Cleveland is one of the most underrated cities in the country that can compete with the bigger markets, and I like what Destination Cleveland does, but I think they can do more.  I just believe from what I have heard (and seen myself when I went to CSU) Cleveland needs to prepare better for big events that come and are coming to the city.  I just wonder with the incident outside of the Wyndham, the group of people who were discussed in the Plain Dealer article, were they a group from out of town who witnessed this?  It's just frustrating sometimes.

Three shooting incidents over the weekend:  71st and Harvard (bar related), 36th and Euclid, 6700 block of St. Clair.  I recall a similar weekend about a month ago.

 

Unrelated?  The full moon?  Or is the rumored gang war heating up?

 

Edit:  A fourth, near E. 113th and Union.

Would greater police presence after Cleveland St. Patrick's Day parade mean fewer beatings?

 

By Brandon Blackwell, Northeast Ohio Media Group

Email the author | Follow on Twitter

on April 06, 2015 at 11:32 AM, updated April 06, 2015 at 11:43 AM

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Despite years of unchecked beatings on and around Public Square following the city's St. Patrick's Day parades, a spokesman for Mayor Frank Jackson said police presence during the booze-fueled revelry is good enough.

 

This year, mobs attacked at least six people -- mostly visitors to Cleveland -- in the hours after the parade, a time when hundreds of drunken revelers converge with throngs of teenagers pouring into the public transportation hub after the school day.

 

The combination continues to catalyze violence, calling into question whether enough is being done to curb the brutality.

 

"This is something that has been going on for years, so why we didn't secure that area immediately while we were planning, I don't understand," Councilman Zack Reed said. "It's remarkable to me that it happened on the scale that it happened this year. Where the hell were the police?"

 

Not going back

 

Randy Rose, a 24-year-old Huntsburg man who was attacked by a band of teenagers after this year's parade, had a similar question.

 

Minutes before Rose was pummeled near a Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority platform on Euclid Avenue, a mob attacked someone else in the area.

 

"There was a couple of cops that showed up in a van, but they left," he said. "They didn't seem to care there was an angry mob there."

 

Surveillance video provided by the RTA shows the officers in the van stopped at the scene for less then two minutes.  About 90 seconds after they left, the mob struck again.

 

Rose was punched and knocked to the ground. Two of his friends were also attacked as dozens of people swarmed in and around the platform, delivering blows.

 

It took police about another 90 seconds to respond to the melee, the video shows.

 

"It could have been avoided if (the police) had been there," Rose said, adding that he pointed out two possible suspects to responding police, but the officers didn't bother to speak to them.

 

"[Public Square] is ground zero on St. Patrick's Day for blacks to go beat up whites," Reed said. "I believe this is a hate crime because it is black folks purposefully going downtown to beat up white folks."

 

"[Public Square] is ground zero on St. Patrick's Day for blacks to go beat up whites," Reed said. "I believe this is a hate crime because it is black folks purposefully going downtown to beat up white folks."

 

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2015/04/would_greater_police_presence.html#incart_river

Zack Reed really is an enigma to me. 

He's a drunk who wants to be mayor. Not much more to him that that.

Looks like an Akron cop was arrested for that brutal beating at Playhouse Square: http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2015/04/akron_police_officer_charged_i.html#incart_river

^ not surprised.  Lets the cop apologists come out.  Again, im not a cop hater.  I respect the hell out of the good, moral, cops with integrity.  Unfortunately they seem to be in the minority in these parts.

Huh? Why would "cop apologists" defend this guy?  Was the cop making a lawful arrest?

^ make no mistake.  There is a very significant group of people who think having a badge means you are ALWAYS the good guy.

^depending on who the victim is, mind you.  I don't think this is a situation where you will find many people defending the cop.

^ make no mistake.  There is a very significant group of people who think having a badge means you are ALWAYS the good guy.

 

No so much, any more.  The Ficker case, the guy at the Walmart in Dayton, the case above....

Zack Reed really is an enigma to me. 

 

He's like Jesse Jackson.  He knows better than the racialist rhetoric of Sharpton et al, and sometimes comes out and says so.

 

At which point, someone dusts off personal issues....

 

More discussion worthy is the cop out by the mayoral mouthpiece.  Okay, you can't be 100% responsible for people's safety if they are hanging out around an east side bar at 2am.

 

But in daylight, at one of downtown's biggest events, when you know (or should) that there is a semi-organized attack in the works???

 

If you don't want us downtown, just say so...

Don't want who downtown?

Well we collectively don't want Adam Campbell downtown.  Very disturbing.  A true putz.

 

Akron police officer charged in Playhouse Square beating was arrested for drunken driving in 2006

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- A 28-year-old rookie with the Akron police department charged in an early-morning assault outside a police fundraiser at a Playhouse Square hotel pleaded guilty to drunken driving in 2006, according to records.

 

Patrolman Adam Campbell is on unpaid administrative leave and faces possible termination after Cleveland police obtained an arrest warrant Monday accusing the Uniontown man of beating 31-year-old Steven Crupp March 29 outside the Wyndham Cleveland hotel.

 

Campbell, who joined the Akron police department on Nov. 3, was still on his probationary period, and could be fired as a result of the charge, Akron police spokesman Lt. Rick Edwards told Northeast Ohio Media Group.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2015/04/akron_police_officer_charged_i_1.html#incart_river

Wouldn't a DUI conviction automatically preclude you from getting hired with the police department?  It certainly does in other fields! 

Wouldn't a DUI conviction automatically preclude you from getting hired with the police department?  It certainly does in other fields! 

 

Bedford's former chief had to delay taking his new position for a couple days because we was in the DIP program for a DUI,

Don't want who downtown?

 

Casual visitors.  People who don't come down except for special events.

 

Remember than in any group heading out, there's always a couple people that would rather everyone go somewhere else.

Wouldn't a DUI conviction automatically preclude you from getting hired with the police department?  It certainly does in other fields! 

 

Bedford's former chief had to delay taking his new position for a couple days because we was in the DIP program for a DUI,

 

I don't get that at all.  If a pilot loses his job, or a truck driver, even though they may have just had a few beers on the weekend away from work, why shouldn't a police officer (or worse yet, a chief!)?

Wouldn't a DUI conviction automatically preclude you from getting hired with the police department?  It certainly does in other fields! 

 

Bedford's former chief had to delay taking his new position for a couple days because we was in the DIP program for a DUI,

 

I don't get that at all.  If a pilot loses his job, or a truck driver, even though they may have just had a few beers on the weekend away from work, why shouldn't a police officer (or worse yet, a chief!)?

 

He was eventually demoted, though he did not get fired.  I'm not sure if this was why.  I know, firsthand, that he kept drinking.

http://www.cleveland.com/morris/index.ssf/2015/04/clevelands_st_patricks_day_bea.html#incart_m-rpt-1

The Xecutive Ultra Lounge - back in action baby!  This place needs to go...like yesterday.  For those that don't remember, there was a rash of gun violence last year involving patrons from this place.

 

Security guard shot in the head in Prospect Avenue shooting

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2015/04/security_guard_shot_in_the_hea.html#incart_river

 

Security guard shot in the head overnight on Prospect Ave. in Cleveland

http://www.newsnet5.com/news/local-news/oh-cuyahoga/security-guard-shot-in-the-head-overnight-on-prospect-ave-in-cleveland

You can close Xecutive Lounge, but another "upscale VIP club" will pop up to take it's place.  They've been playing this game of whack-a-mole for years.

You can close Xecutive Lounge, but another "upscale VIP club" will pop up to take it's place.  They've been playing this game of whack-a-mole for years.

 

Maybe in the immediacy.  But hasn't the portfolio of downtown entertainment, as a whole, gotten gradually safer over the past decades?  Pressure to close shady operations may not eradicate all shady operations, but it does gradually make it harder/riskier for them to operate in areas where the pressure exists.

I think the point is that it is not the operation but the clientele, specifically the bad apples who spoil the bunch. You can close this place down, and really you must with recurrent instances like these, but the bad apples will just find another place to run out of business. It's a sad cycle with a solution, if there is one, far more complicated than closing down a single club

News outlets are reporting this in the 1100 block of Prospect, and Xecutive is the 1200 block.  Could have been this place: https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Rathskeller/111760935526018

 

In the case of a couple former clubs along West 25th (Club Envy and Club Moda), the problem was the owners. They were more interested in making money than in providing security. And they didn't help their causes by engaging in other criminal activity. The only way to avoid whack-a-mole is to prosecute the owners and utilize restrictive zoning for music/dance hall establishments. Yes, "dance hall" is an old-fashioned term, but that's how the zoning code addresses them in terms of floor space/uses, occupancy, parking, hours of operation, etc.

Also two multiple shootings on the east side, one on Superior and Russell (7000 block), the other on E. 116th somewhere.  Similar to last weekend.

 

I don't remember them being this common before.

Was there a recent round-up and arrests of drug gang members? The reason why I ask is that there seems to be an increase in the number of homicides in the months after such large-scale arrests. And I've been noticing in some of the comment sections after apparent drug-related killings that there's been some remarks about this summer possibly being a violent one due to possible gang turf battles.

Was there a recent round-up and arrests of drug gang members? The reason why I ask is that there seems to be an increase in the number of homicides in the months after such large-scale arrests. And I've been noticing in some of the comment sections after apparent drug-related killings that there's been some remarks about this summer possibly being a violent one due to possible gang turf battles.

 

It's as confirmed as it is possible to be from the outside that "Heartless Felons" and "Loyal Always" are indeed at war.

 

Another double last night, at E. 99th and St. Clair, the intersection Bone Thugs and Harmony called their roots. 

 

There have been a couple roundups over the past few months.

Scary...how is this kid able to roam free???

 

http://fox8.com/2015/04/24/woman-assaulted-at-cleveland-bar-15-year-old-suspect-arrested-and-released/

Scary...how is this kid able to roam free???

 

http://fox8.com/2015/04/24/woman-assaulted-at-cleveland-bar-15-year-old-suspect-arrested-and-released/

 

Because McGinty's a crappy prosecutor.  He's a poster for why it should not be an elective position.

 

Disappointing, because he was an above average judge.

Better than Mason, that's for sure

 

McGinty is a hard read, as sometimes he's really tough and other times not so much. That said, I suspect he had nothing to do with the PC inquiry in this case

 

He certanInly has angered a certain 'segment' with his investigation into the police chase

Better than Mason, that's for sure

 

McGinty is a hard read, as sometimes he's really tough and other times not so much. That said, I suspect he had nothing to do with the PC inquiry in this case

 

He certanInly has angered a certain 'segment' with his investigation into the police chase

 

Oh better than Mason is almost a given.  At least he's not a J. Edgar wannabe with his files who not only had to decline to run for, but actually resign from, a position he expended major political capital on keeping elective.

 

He may not have had to do with this decision, but he sets general policy.  And he's very prone to grandstanding.

Arrests were made for an assault on public square on St. Patrick's Day.  The three boys arrested were 14 years old, along with a 16 year old girl.

crazy that such young people can be capable of such violent behavior.  So the question becomes, what can we all do to stop this?

crazy that such young people can be capable of such violent behavior.  So the question becomes, what can we all do to stop this?

 

We can do nothing, and excuse it because of their ages; or we can make an example of them, and negatively affect them for a long time to come.

^Given the charges filed, it is safe to say that the City/County is going with the latter.  Felonious assault, aggravated rioting, kidnapping, and aggravated rioting.  Sorry to disappoint.  I'm not sure why the kidnapping, but if that isn't trumping up the charges, I don't know what is....

^Given the charges filed, it is safe to say that the City/County is going with the latter.  Felonious assault, aggravated rioting, kidnapping, and aggravated rioting.  Sorry to disappoint.  I'm not sure why the kidnapping, but if that isn't trumping up the charges, I don't know what is....

 

Won't the dispostion of the case itself be sealed?

I'd assume so, since they are juveniles.  They'll get punished.  They won't get lynched.