11 minutes ago, freefourur said:

Seizing the bikes and fining the riders should suffice.  I don't think the city does anything right now. 

It's sort of hard to seize them. The whole reason these guys ride them is because you can ride them up on lawns to avoid being caught by police. Frankly chasing them can sometimes make it even more of an unsafe environment for the community. It's been a lose lose so far. 

3 minutes ago, KFM44107 said:

It's sort of hard to seize them. The whole reason these guys ride them is because you can ride them up on lawns to avoid being caught by police. Frankly chasing them can sometimes make it even more of an unsafe environment for the community. It's been a lose lose so far. 

They have to go home or run out of gas sometime.  Maybe you can't catch them all at once, but you start picking them off 2-3 at a time just by following in slow speed pursuit along with a helicopter.  

59 minutes ago, bumsquare said:

Not everyone has a punitive view of law enforcement. And you suggested seizing people’s homes. That seems slightly excessive.

 

Safety Director Eliot Ness burned down homes to get his man. I'm sure we can find a middle ground. 

 

On a more serious note, there are electromagnetic pulse devices that can police can use to disable vehicle engines from 150 feet away.

Edited August 13, 20195 yr by KJP

1 hour ago, KJP said:

My agenda is to keep my six-year-old son safe. Nothing is more important to me. Thanks for assuming I have darker motives.

Lots of bad things have been done with good motives. "Safety at any cost" generally leads to poor policies and bad outcomes.

 

1 hour ago, YABO713 said:

 

Or... or... call me crazy... People could take dirt bikes to tracks in the country and exurbs. If these dudes were skeet shooting in the neighborhood, I don't think we'd all be like "Maybe we should accommodate them and get some more clay pigeons", no, we'd punish the firearms infraction and tell them to take that activity elsewhere. 

Sure, that sounds okay. But I doubt these dudes have a legal mode of transportation to get there. And the exurbs tend to be very hostile to young black men. If that's the solution we want, then some resources should be spent to make it a reality.

12 minutes ago, Cavalier Attitude said:

Lots of bad things have been done with good motives. "Safety at any cost" generally leads to poor policies and bad outcomes.

 

 

If it was safety at any cost, I would offer other alternatives.

23 minutes ago, Cavalier Attitude said:

Lots of bad things have been done with good motives. "Safety at any cost" generally leads to poor policies and bad outcomes.

 

Sure, that sounds okay. But I doubt these dudes have a legal mode of transportation to get there. And the exurbs tend to be very hostile to young black men. If that's the solution we want, then some resources should be spent to make it a reality.

 

2 hours ago, Cavalier Attitude said:

There are a lot of intermediate solutions that haven't been tried yet -- dirt bike track maybe eventually? more community programming? Reach out to the community and find solutions that work. But I'm not surprised that the "law and order" types just want to round them up and take away their homes and property.

 

"But I am a strong advocate for public peace and civil order as well as using all legal means available to restore and preserve it."

 

of course. the law is your cudgel to enact your agenda, damn the consequences.

Did you see the cars driving on the sidewalk? 

1 hour ago, bumsquare said:

Not everyone has a punitive view of law enforcement. And you suggested seizing people’s homes. That seems slightly excessive.

 

What's the point of law enforcement if it shouldn't punish offenders? Property is often seized and sold at auction when the property is used to commit crimes, or when offenders can't pay court-imposed fines. We have a lawless society because we don't enforce laws. I was raised to expect negative consequences for my actions.

20 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

What's the point of law enforcement if it shouldn't punish offenders? Property is often seized and sold at auction when the property is used to commit crimes, or when offenders can't pay court-imposed fines. We have a lawless society because we don't enforce laws. I was raised to expect negative consequences for my actions.

 

Yeah but Ken, while I'm with you on 99% of this - this sort of punitive system of justice would send our impoverished, most notably minorities into a feudal death spiral, wherein any moral transgression could see a seizure of assets. 

 

I agree with you - these guys should face charges for what they did, I just want to temper the part re: seizure of property unrelated to the crime. 

And would send a powerful message going forward. If someone puts people's lives in danger, a punishment that puts only the offender's livelihoods in danger is less severe by comparison.

4 hours ago, Cavalier Attitude said:

There are a lot of intermediate solutions that haven't been tried yet -- dirt bike track maybe eventually? more community programming? Reach out to the community and find solutions that work. But I'm not surprised that the "law and order" types just want to round them up and take away their homes and property.

 

"But I am a strong advocate for public peace and civil order as well as using all legal means available to restore and preserve it."

 

of course. the law is your cudgel to enact your agenda, damn the consequences.

 

Why can't we do both?  Provide a dirt bike track, and also punish those who break the law.  Other than the taking their homes part, I don't see anything KJP said as being out of line.  These riders are continually putting the public in danger and need to be punished.  Do you think they give a damn about consequences of their own actions if they're willing to drive ATVs and pickup trucks 30 MPH down the sidewalk and across yards?  How would you feel if that was the sidewalk your young children walked on?

Edited August 13, 20195 yr by jam40jeff

14 minutes ago, jam40jeff said:

 

Why can't we do both?  Provide a dirt bike track, and also punish those who break the law.  Other than the taking their homes part, I don't see anything KJP said as being out of line.  These riders are continually putting the public in danger and need to be punished.  Do you think they give a damn about consequences of their own actions if they're willing to drive ATVs and pickup trucks 30 MPH down the sidewalk and across yards?  How would you feel if that was the sidewalk your young children walked on?

 

I don't think these "kids" (I'm sure a majority are actually young adults) would use a dirt bike track if we spent $10 million on it for them.  They are out for the thrill and love the fact they can thumb their nose at authority and get away with it.   It's not anything those of us in the suburbs wouldn't have done if we could have gotten away with it either.  Unfortunately where I grew up, if I drove an ATV and pickup truck down the sidewalk the cops would have been there in 3 minutes and I would have gladly let the cops keep me over going home to face my father!  

This is all an issue of political will.  And unfortunately it's going to take someone getting killed before Frank Jackson and the CPD do anything about it.   Sadly I don't think a 72 year old man being beaten by them is enough to cause action here....

 

 

And I freely admit some of this is just mindless rage coming out of the keyboard belonging to a guy with a short temper. But I've flown off the handle, chased down and nearly gotten into a fist fight in the middle of West 117th Street when people have tried to run down my wife and I while crossing in a marked crosswalk. So when I see people riding motorcycles and trucks Road Warrior style down sidewalks where my 6-year-old boy plays, you're going to get at least a Road Warrior-style response from me. And I think I've kept my often uncontrollable temper in control during this non-debate, even though I'd like to stretch a neck-high, razor-sharp clothesline wire across the street as the dirt bikers approach. Is that Road Warrior enough for ya? ?

18 minutes ago, jam40jeff said:

 

Why can't we do both?  Provide a dirt bike track, and also punish those who break the law.  Other than the taking their homes part, I don't see anything KJP said as being out of line.  These riders are continually putting the public in danger and need to be punished.  Do you think they give a damn about consequences of their own actions if they're willing to drive ATVs and pickup trucks 30 MPH down the sidewalk and across yards?  How would you feel if that was the sidewalk your young children walked on?

I agree the rest of it wasn't out of line, but considering the history of this country, I take forcible relocation rather seriously. KJP you seem like a reasonable person in general, so I'll cut you some slack here.

 

I don't have children so that's a bit hard for me to answer. In the videos I've seen it did not look like anyone was going on grass or driving faster than 15-20 mph. It wouldn't surprise me if it happened.

 

The law is rarely enforced equally or fairly, so I'm rather skeptical of it. And even if the laws were enforced in this case, it's fixing the symptoms, not the root causes (lack of activities and opportunity for urban youth), so it's going to keep happening again.

Edited August 13, 20195 yr by Cavalier Attitude

27 minutes ago, KJP said:

And I freely admit some of this is just mindless rage coming out of the keyboard belonging to a guy with a short temper. But I've flown off the handle, chased down and nearly gotten into a fist fight in the middle of West 117th Street when people have tried to run down my wife and I while crossing in a marked crosswalk. So when I see people riding motorcycles and trucks Road Warrior style down sidewalks where my 6-year-old boy plays, you're going to get at least a Road Warrior-style response from me. And I think I've kept my often uncontrollable temper in control during this non-debate, even though I'd like to stretch a neck-high, razor-sharp clothesline wire across the street as the dirt bikers approach. Is that Road Warrior enough for ya? ?

 

Maybe instead of doing anything to the bikers, we just give all residents in their path free karate lessons? HI-YAAA

On another matter.....

 

Dear Ken,

 

Tomorrow Cleveland City Council's Safety Committee will be voting on legislation to install gunfire sensor technology starting with the Fourth District of Cleveland, which would send audio data to police with the stated intent of shortening response times to gun violence. The most well-known example of this technology is ShotSpotter, which consists of microphones that often cannot differentiate between gunshots, fireworks, or cars backfiring. This is especially concerning in a city where Timothy Russell and Malissa Williams were killed by police who mistook the sound of their car backfiring as gunshots. We should all be deeply concerned about the prospect of introducing technology that could very well endanger innocent community members ( as recently happened in Columbus) and lead to mistakes that cost lives. 

Additionally, there is no evidence that this technology reduces crime and no evidence that it saves lives by getting victims to the hospital faster, clearing more cases, or decreasing gun violence. In many cases, it has actually recorded loud conversations in the street, raising questions about the nature of data collected and privacy violations.

Increased surveillance of a majority black community and increased police presence wlll not make our communities safer. This is not the solution to gun violence in our city, and we urge the Safety Committee to vote no or at the very least delay the vote until important questions of efficacy and safety answered.

 

Please join us at the Safety Committee meeting   TOMORROW, Wednesday, August 14th at 10am, 601 Lakeside Avenue, Room 217 to show that the public cares about this issue and we are paying attention.

 

Rachael Collyer
Ohio Organizing Collaborative | Ohio Student Association

 

Hey all,

 

So I am doing what I do so often - turning to my UrbanOhio family for some advice. 

 

Five months ago, one familial unit of about 11 people, aged from parents to an 11 year old (most in their early 20s) moved across the street from us. The house had been occupied prior by a lovely, elderly black man that used to make me beef jerky (We miss Hank) - and the family that now occupies it would be described in the most politically correct way possible as "economically anxious" and "forgotten America" or as my wife so lovingly puts it - "the trashiest of trash in America." 

 

They often sit on their porch or in their driveway drinking beer - many of them dangerously overweight - with their shirts off and playing music loudly. They regularly get into screaming matches for 1+ hours that would have put my vocal cords in a coffin. Last night, it got bad. 

 

My wife and I were watering our shrubs and playing with our dogs when the arguments across the street escalated into something that sounded VERY dangerous, and when we heard one of the guys talking about how he was going to knock his girlfriend out, my wife called the non-emergency police line. When the police showed up, we were in our driveway - and for the sake of clarity, I have to be pushed very far to lose my temper; but my wife is a bit of a hot head - after the police were talking to people, I could tell the house was coordinated in a lie about it, with three people telling the police they were all "joking around", and then the mother of the home (who regularly rips 30-40 cigs on the porch facing our home every day) pointed at my wife who was in our driveway. Instead of ignoring her, my wife waved and said "yeah we called." 

 

So now, we have an awkward at best, threatening at worst tension with the neighbors across the street. We have four cameras, a security system, and a German shepherd (lol my mom owns a residential and commercial security business that's why we have the Fort Knox of Ohio City). Nonetheless, I am worried about how to proceed and what resources are at my disposal if we continue to have problems.

 

Has anyone else had similar problems in Cleveland? If so, do you have any advice to share on how best to deal with it? Should I just ignore it? Thanks y'all. 

Keep an eye on them, but I would ignore it. 

^I think that’s tough. Obviously people have some right to do what they want on their property...but when you can’t sit in your own home without hearing them (whether it’s yelling or music) that’s another thing. And it’s kind of hard

to just ignore imo. It sounds like you’re well past talking to them like adults.

 

If they’re constantly violating rules like noise violations, it may be worth while to engage your councilman (Zone?). My neighbors and I have had extremely fruitful conversations with Kerry regarding problem neighbors, albeit ours is a property manager. But he’s been nothing but helpful so far.

Reach out to Jeremy @ DSDCO, he'll do what he can to help..

 

Jeremy Taylor
Safety & Community
Engagement Coordinator
[email protected]
216.961.4242 x233

11 minutes ago, Enginerd said:

^I think that’s tough. Obviously people have some right to do what they want on their property...but when you can’t sit in your own home without hearing them (whether it’s yelling or music) that’s another thing. And it’s kind of hard

to just ignore imo. It sounds like you’re well past talking to them like adults.

 

If they’re constantly violating rules like noise violations, it may be worth while to engage your councilman (Zone?). My neighbors and I have had extremely fruitful conversations with Kerry regarding problem neighbors, albeit ours is a property manager. But he’s been nothing but helpful so far.

 

Yeah and honestly I don't have a problem with them being loud, really. I do have a problem with them getting into altercations that make neighbors fear for their safety. The neighbors next to us are elderly, and often complain to me that they worry about them. 

 

Here's the catch 22. My side of the street has Kerry, the other side of the street has Zone - so they have a different councilman than we do - so my complaint wouldn't be coming from a ward resident lol. FWIW, Kerry has been nothing but great

Just now, Clefan98 said:

Reach out to Jeremy @ DSDCO, he'll do what he can to help..

 

Jeremy Taylor
Safety & Community
Engagement Coordinator
[email protected]
216.961.4242 x233

 

Thank you, I appreciate this. 

17 minutes ago, Enginerd said:

^I think that’s tough. Obviously people have some right to do what they want on their property...but when you can’t sit in your own home without hearing them (whether it’s yelling or music) that’s another thing. And it’s kind of hard

to just ignore imo. It sounds like you’re well past talking to them like adults.

 

If they’re constantly violating rules like noise violations, it may be worth while to engage your councilman (Zone?). My neighbors and I have had extremely fruitful conversations with Kerry regarding problem neighbors, albeit ours is a property manager. But he’s been nothing but helpful so far.

 

And one thing I'm particularly worried about is just while I'm not home. I've been punched in the face before and can handle it lol - I just don't want anything to escalate with my wife and them while I'm out or at the office. 

What are their names?  Do they own the property they're in?

 

If they are renting at the property and the police are called three (3) times for disturbances, the owner can be charged $100 for each subsequent time the police have to come out.  That would eventually lead the owner to evict the problem tenants.

4 minutes ago, Oldmanladyluck said:

What are their names?  Do they own the property they're in?

 

If they are renting at the property and the police are called three (3) times for disturbances, the owner can be charged $100 for each subsequent time the police have to come out.  That would eventually lead the owner to evict the problem tenants.

 

I don't know their names, but no they do not own the property.

 

Thank you for that info! That's helpful! 

Mabel Property LLC owns the house - per county records 

15 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

 

Yeah and honestly I don't have a problem with them being loud, really. I do have a problem with them getting into altercations that make neighbors fear for their safety. The neighbors next to us are elderly, and often complain to me that they worry about them. 

 

Here's the catch 22. My side of the street has Kerry, the other side of the street has Zone - so they have a different councilman than we do - so my complaint wouldn't be coming from a ward resident lol. FWIW, Kerry has been nothing but great

 

Because of this council borderline I would echo what the poster above said about maintaining contact with the CDC safety/crime person, whether that be in Detroit Shoreway or Ohio City.  

Also, you're an attorney right?  Make sure to keep meticulous logs of what happened, when, and the result of any action.   This can be crucial in taking any action in the future whether it be against the tenants or landlord. 

3 minutes ago, Cleburger said:

 

Because of this council borderline I would echo what the poster above said about maintaining contact with the CDC safety/crime person, whether that be in Detroit Shoreway or Ohio City.  

Also, you're an attorney right?  Make sure to keep meticulous logs of what happened, when, and the result of any action.   This can be crucial in taking any action in the future whether it be against the tenants or landlord. 

 

Okay, I'll make sure I note it all. 

If anyone happens to know Mabel Properties or the owners, feel free to DM me. I'd love to resolve this as casually as possible. 

It’s probably worth noting that this is the second time in 3 months we’ve called for something like this

7 minutes ago, Terdolph said:

I think you made a strategic error.  You should have gone to them first, as unpleasant as a that might be, and then call the cops if their behavior did not change.  By going to the cops first you have demonstrated that you are intimidated by them and they will act accordingly.

 

I wasn’t going to put myself or my wife in the middle of a domestic dispute

3 minutes ago, Terdolph said:

I understand that but you have to weigh that against the consequences.  I live next to the entrance to a large park.  I have intervened constantly with respect to violations of park rules, noise, people in the park when it is closed, etc. as have other neighbors.  It took a while but the park is quiet and clean now.  I think that the people I approached, on some level respected that I did not go to the cops first.

Yeah, but when your NAME is on the park, that adds weight to it.   "Terdolph is telling us to get out of his park man!" ?

On 8/13/2019 at 11:55 AM, KJP said:

My agenda is to keep my six-year-old son safe. Nothing is more important to me. Thanks for assuming I have darker motives.

 

In all honesty Ken, most people don't get it until they have a kid.  I didn't, not entirely.

On 8/14/2019 at 12:07 AM, KJP said:

 

 

Polensek got 87% of the vote against a pretty reasonable and apparently qualified opponent last time around, mostly because he takes care of his district but partly because of comments like this.   

It's culture, not race.

23 hours ago, YABO713 said:

Hey all,

 

So I am doing what I do so often - turning to my UrbanOhio family for some advice. 

 

Five months ago, one familial unit of about 11 people, aged from parents to an 11 year old (most in their early 20s) moved across the street from us. The house had been occupied prior by a lovely, elderly black man that used to make me beef jerky (We miss Hank) - and the family that now occupies it would be described in the most politically correct way possible as "economically anxious" and "forgotten America" or as my wife so lovingly puts it - "the trashiest of trash in America." 

 

They often sit on their porch or in their driveway drinking beer - many of them dangerously overweight - with their shirts off and playing music loudly. They regularly get into screaming matches for 1+ hours that would have put my vocal cords in a coffin. Last night, it got bad. 

 

My wife and I were watering our shrubs and playing with our dogs when the arguments across the street escalated into something that sounded VERY dangerous, and when we heard one of the guys talking about how he was going to knock his girlfriend out, my wife called the non-emergency police line. When the police showed up, we were in our driveway - and for the sake of clarity, I have to be pushed very far to lose my temper; but my wife is a bit of a hot head - after the police were talking to people, I could tell the house was coordinated in a lie about it, with three people telling the police they were all "joking around", and then the mother of the home (who regularly rips 30-40 cigs on the porch facing our home every day) pointed at my wife who was in our driveway. Instead of ignoring her, my wife waved and said "yeah we called." 

 

So now, we have an awkward at best, threatening at worst tension with the neighbors across the street. We have four cameras, a security system, and a German shepherd (lol my mom owns a residential and commercial security business that's why we have the Fort Knox of Ohio City). Nonetheless, I am worried about how to proceed and what resources are at my disposal if we continue to have problems.

 

Has anyone else had similar problems in Cleveland? If so, do you have any advice to share on how best to deal with it? Should I just ignore it? Thanks y'all. 

 

People like that can turn a decent neighborhood into a slum within a year.  Most landlords know this.

^Yeah and that's what we're trying to stop. A nice young couple just bought the house next to us and have spent countless hours there fixing it up in the last few weeks - my neighbors to the other side of me are CMHA rent-to-buy buy keep an immaculate yard and nice house, and my wife and I have put our heart, soul, and wallets into our home lol - our street continues to get better and younger, but if I were looking at a house and heard my neighbors, it would go on my con list. 

@YABO713 Keep calling the police and ask your councilman for advice. Please encourage your neighbors to do so, also, so that it increases the number of nuisance records and so that it makes this situation about them and not about you. You and your neighbors create a "nuisance record" without which the authorities can do nothing. You might also contact the block club for that area and ask for their advice, as well.

 

By the way, I'm very impressed that the Cleveland police showed up in a timely manner despite it being a non-emergency.

 

BTW 2... Next time, video-record a situation if it causes you concern. You might also keep one of those security cameras pointed in their direction, as well. 

Edited August 20, 20195 yr by KJP

15 minutes ago, KJP said:

@YABO713 Keep calling the police and ask your councilman for advice. Please encourage your neighbors to do so, also, so that it increases the number of nuisance records and so that it makes this situation about them and not about you. You and your neighbors create a "nuisance record" without which the authorities can do nothing. You might also contact the block club for that area and ask for their advice, as well.

 

By the way, I'm very impressed that the Cleveland police showed up in a timely manner despite it being a non-emergency.

 

BTW 2... Next time, video-record a situation if it causes you concern. You might also keep one of those security cameras pointed in their direction, as well. 

 

Yeah we have two video cameras that face that direction - so I should be good in that regard. Also, members here have kindly pointed me in the direction of the landlord, and I've sent him a LinkedIn request

 

I'm not sure if its a coincidence or not, but yesterday they cleaned out trash from their bushes and were not on their porch for the first time in over a month. Not sure if their landlord found out somehow, but they seemed to be on their best behavior. 

 

This is scary...

Holy crap!!

5 hours ago, Enginerd said:

 

This is scary...

 

I have to wonder if she's the first victim.....

Shooting on 45th South of Franklin last night.

 

My dog went crazy and my wife and I could hear the shots. Such a shame, that’s a beautiful street 

^I'm hearing two shot but  none killed

 

SMH.

On 8/19/2019 at 8:40 AM, YABO713 said:

Hey all,

 

So I am doing what I do so often - turning to my UrbanOhio family for some advice. 

 

Five months ago, one familial unit of about 11 people, aged from parents to an 11 year old (most in their early 20s) moved across the street from us. The house had been occupied prior by a lovely, elderly black man that used to make me beef jerky (We miss Hank) - and the family that now occupies it would be described in the most politically correct way possible as "economically anxious" and "forgotten America" or as my wife so lovingly puts it - "the trashiest of trash in America." 

 

......do you have any advice to share on how best to deal with it? Should I just ignore it? Thanks y'all. 

 

Hey YABO713---was thinking about your bad neighbor problem.  Why not reach out directly to the owners of the house---who gave these people a lease---and complain to them directly?  And have all your neighbors do it as well. And repeatedly.  And you're a lawyer, right? Tell them if they don't pull the tenants in line (or evict them) you'll file suit again them (the owners) for nuisance or loss of enjoyment or rights to fully use your property or whatever. And all your neighbors as well.  Basically, go after the property owner. Dealing with the low-lifes directly won't get you anywhere (except maybe a few smashed windows one night) and the city itself has bigger problems.  Hope this helps!

Definitely a crazy weekend in North Collinwood, and that's not even including the guy that ran his boat onto the rocks in my "front yard" early this morning.

 

Shooting on E. 165th at Villaview

Shooting on E. 147th just south of Lakeshore.

Murder victim found on South Waterloo, right in front of the Executive Den (found early afternoon, almost certainly unrelated to the biz).

Another one Sunday afternoon, not far away on South Waterloo.  

https://www.cleveland.com/crime/2019/09/man-killed-in-drive-by-shooting-in-clevelands-collinwood-neighborhood.html
(Edit:  it may have been only one on South Waterloo, the stories were all over the place).

 

There were also shootings today on E. 123 near the freeway and the Harvard-Lee area.

Edited September 3, 20195 yr by E Rocc

Whoa....

 

 

Neighbors want answers, action after four dead found in vacant Cleveland house

https://fox8.com/2019/09/23/neighbors-wants-answers-action-after-four-dead-found-in-vacant-cleveland-house/

More details coming out....

 

Man found slain in abandoned Cleveland home was targeted in attack months earlier

https://www.cleveland.com/metro/2019/09/man-found-slain-in-abandoned-cleveland-home-was-targeted-in-attack-months-earlier.html