A sad day for Cleveland. A sad week for America.

Watching video of Geiger's downtown literally being cleaned out by looters. Unreal. Terrible events this week tbat could have been avoided. This is another one.

Edited May 30, 20205 yr by eyehrtfood

Also been posting a lot of pics/reports in the Police Use of Force thread in Current Events.

AND (Rebol)

AND

AND

 

Edited May 31, 20205 yr by KJP

 

This is the most sickening thing I've seen in my 60+ years here. Unbelievable.

Sick to the pit of my stomach at this. When I heard they were coming down Euclid smashing everything I went outside to see. When I watched them ransack Starbucks and try to set it on fire, I went and got my girlfriend and kids and we got in the car and headed out. Staying with friends tonight on the westside. I’ll go back in morning and see what’s what. 

 

AND

 

The riot that happened downtown today may actually deserve its own thread. There’s a lot of physical damage which has happened. Pics are all over Facebook and other social media.

 

https://m.facebook.com/1444471335/posts/10216757709242133/?d=n

 

 

 

AND

 

Edited May 31, 20205 yr by KJP

1 hour ago, KJP said:

AND

 

Everyone who was off had their off days cancelled. Literally the entire police force is going to be on shift tomorrow. 

I was there for all of it.....What happened yesterday and last night had me sick to my stomach a legit scared.  Being in the lobby of our building and watching gangs of kids try and bust out all our windows and flip us on....kids  leaning out of cars waving pistols,  tear gas everywhere......It was unreal.  I was right there when they smashed the Standard Building windows and then screamed  "Lets go get Tower City"!!!  

Don’t try and tell anyone that the rioters are all outside agitators or terrorists backed by China and Russia (that’s the White House line  this morning).  There are disaffected people within our own community that are happy to randomly destroy generations of work in a night without respect for what has been painstakingly built.  They have no stake in society and are at odds with it. We have ignored these people at our own risk. The cost of that disregard is clear. 

11 minutes ago, CleveFan said:

We have ignored these people at our own risk.

 

Truth.

1 hour ago, CleveFan said:

Don’t try and tell anyone that the rioters are all outside agitators or terrorists backed by China and Russia (that’s the White House line  this morning).  There are disaffected people within our own community that are happy to randomly destroy generations of work in a night without respect for what has been painstakingly built.  They have no stake in society and are at odds with it. We have ignored these people at our own risk. The cost of that disregard is clear. 

that is absolute truth!

1 hour ago, CleveFan said:

Don’t try and tell anyone that the rioters are all outside agitators or terrorists backed by China and Russia (that’s the White House line  this morning).  There are disaffected people within our own community that are happy to randomly destroy generations of work in a night without respect for what has been painstakingly built.  They have no stake in society and are at odds with it. We have ignored these people at our own risk. The cost of that disregard is clear. 

They have no stake in society because society has given up and puts no stake in them. Years of peaceful protests have gone ignored. "A riot is the language of the unheard". Your hear us now. 

 

I was downtown the the entire day yesterday. From the rally and march from the Free Stamp, up until the curfew was enacted and the mass arrests began. No, I did not partake in any violence, vandalism, or looting, but I witnessed it firsthand. The people who were there until the end were not just "thugs" or "outside agitators"  as I have seen them being labeled. The people who were there were rightfully angry. They were angry at being ignored, and they were angry at being silenced. I witnessed time after time again peaceful protesters turned on by the police with aggression.  The first time I was tear gassed yesterday we were well away from any of the "action". We were standing in front of the old courthouse, people were watching, catching their breath, drinking water, taking a break. There was no agitation going on in our area until the police on the roof of the justice center started shooting gas at us. What happened after that? People became angry. I'm not saying everyone there was good (what do looting Barley House for bottles of liquor and beer accomplish?), but not everyone who was there was bad. The anger that lead to the rioting and the shops being smashed was absolutely legitimate and should be recognized as such.

 

Edit: Property can be replaced. Lives can not.

Edited May 31, 20205 yr by PoshSteve

47 minutes ago, PoshSteve said:

They have no stake in society because society has given up and puts no stake in them. Years of peaceful protests have gone ignored. "A riot is the language of the unheard". Your hear us now. 

 

I was downtown the the entire day yesterday. From the rally and march from the Free Stamp, up until the curfew was enacted and the mass arrests began. No, I did not partake in any violence, vandalism, or looting, but I witnessed it firsthand. The people who were there until the end were not just "thugs" or "outside agitators"  as I have seen them being labeled. The people who were there were rightfully angry. They were angry at being ignored, and they were angry at being silenced. I witnessed time after time again peaceful protesters turned on by the police with aggression.  The first time I was tear gassed yesterday we were well away from any of the "action". We were standing in front of the old courthouse, people were watching, catching their breath, drinking water, taking a break. There was no agitation going on in our area until the police on the roof of the justice center started shooting gas at us. What happened after that? People became angry. I'm not saying everyone there was good (what do looting Barley House for bottles of liquor and beer accomplish?), but not everyone who was there was bad. The anger that lead to the rioting and the shops being smashed was absolutely legitimate and should be recognized as such.

 

Edit: Property can be replaced. Lives can not.

I'm getting sick of this "Property can be replaced. Lives can not." Yea you're right. But how in the world is that an excuse for our neighborhood downtown to be completely destroyed. Not all property can be replaced. Tell that to Geiger's whose whole inventory was wiped out in a matter of minutes. How are they going to absorb that cost? Tell that to Intro on Prospect and every small business in the arcades. Property is the only thing people lost. These businesses are their livelihoods.

 

The cop was arrested. Justice is in process. Enough of this crap.

Uh oh....

BTW

 

Edited May 31, 20205 yr by KJP

4 minutes ago, KJP said:

Uh oh....

 

Damn, already? At least they wisely shut off access to downtown Cleveland. 

 

*Goes off to monitor if anything similar is happening around here*

Wow

 

5 hours ago, AsDustinFoxWouldSay said:

I'm getting sick of this "Property can be replaced. Lives can not." Yea you're right. But how in the world is that an excuse for our neighborhood downtown to be completely destroyed. Not all property can be replaced. Tell that to Geiger's whose whole inventory was wiped out in a matter of minutes. How are they going to absorb that cost? Tell that to Intro on Prospect and every small business in the arcades. Property is the only thing people lost. These businesses are their livelihoods.

 

The cop was arrested. Justice is in process. Enough of this crap.

To say the neighborhood is completely destroyed is hyperbole.  They will rebuild we will move on. You seem to be more upset about the propery loss than the loss of human life. Let's no lose sight of what's important.  

Edited May 31, 20205 yr by freefourur

10 minutes ago, freefourur said:

To say the neighborhood is completely destroyed is hyperbole.  They will rebuild we will move on. You seem to be more upset about the propery loss than the loss of human life. Let's no lose sight of what's important.  

Or maybe it's the fact that there is legitimate concern revitalization will be severely slowed in this city. 

2 minutes ago, AsDustinFoxWouldSay said:

Or maybe it's the fact that there is legitimate concern revitalization will be severely slowed in this city. 

And that is more important than human life?  

 

FWIW,  this event is not enough alone to slow the revitalization. Life will go on. The pandemic is probably hurting these businesses more than anything.  The only thing that'll slow revitilaziation is a recession and we are headed there.

5 hours ago, AsDustinFoxWouldSay said:

I'm getting sick of this "Property can be replaced. Lives can not." Yea you're right. But how in the world is that an excuse for our neighborhood downtown to be completely destroyed. Not all property can be replaced. Tell that to Geiger's whose whole inventory was wiped out in a matter of minutes. How are they going to absorb that cost? Tell that to Intro on Prospect and every small business in the arcades. Property is the only thing people lost. These businesses are their livelihoods.

 

The cop was arrested. Justice is in process. Enough of this crap.

 

Business insurance covers for loss of inventory in these situations too. So enough of THAT crap.

I'm learning that the venn diagram of people who think social distancing is tyranny and the people who cheer on police firing tear gas into a protest is actually a circle

Is anyone else on the near west side hearing a constant stream of gunshots?

I don’t know if it’s gunshots, but huge bangs in and around Edgewater

2 minutes ago, CbusTransit said:

I don’t know if it’s gunshots, but huge bangs in and around Edgewater

Yeah loud explosions every 30 seconds or so

2 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

Yeah loud explosions every 30 seconds or so

It’s pretty unsettling. I’d say maybe Cudell area?

 

^ Phew! I was worried they were going to try to get under the bridge. That's a powder keg if they did.

18 hours ago, CleveFan said:

Don’t try and tell anyone that the rioters are all outside agitators or terrorists backed by China and Russia (that’s the White House line  this morning).  There are disaffected people within our own community that are happy to randomly destroy generations of work in a night without respect for what has been painstakingly built.  They have no stake in society and are at odds with it. We have ignored these people at our own risk. The cost of that disregard is clear. 

 

They have ignored the norms of our society and culture.   They have always been welcome to join it if they choose to recognize it.   

 

Many of them not only reject that but castigate their contemporaries who do not.

 

Much of it is self inflicted.  Not so much by individuals but by alleged "leaders".

8 hours ago, viscomi said:

^ Phew! I was worried they were going to try to get under the bridge. That's a powder keg if they did.

 

Yeah, I replied to that tweet that they probably didn't want to wander up Mayfield Road.....

Yeah, I'm an eeevil racist for reporting what I saw growing up.  Thank you for that.  It further confirms that in the eyes of the stupid, weak-minded and criminal, EVERYONE is racist, except of course for themselves. 

On 5/31/2020 at 7:49 PM, PoshSteve said:

 

Business insurance covers for loss of inventory in these situations too. So enough of THAT crap.

 

That's questionable.  There's some doubt about if normal business insurance covers riots.

4 minutes ago, E Rocc said:

 

That's questionable.  There's some doubt about if normal business insurance covers riots.

It does.  

????

What the hell is Frank Jackson doing. It's ridiculous.

3 minutes ago, mu2010 said:

What the hell is Frank Jackson doing. It's ridiculous.

The communication surrounding this could not possibly be worse. Are there specific threats?? Then tell us. Otherwise this is truly ridiculous.

21 minutes ago, Enginerd said:

????

 

It never made sense to end the curfew at 8pm.

It's interesting that when children get murdered by a shooter we cannot change laws at all because muhhh 2A. But when property is damaged we can completely shut down 1A without any push back (in fact encouragement) from "small government" folks. 

13 minutes ago, Enginerd said:

The communication surrounding this could not possibly be worse. Are there specific threats?? Then tell us. Otherwise this is truly ridiculous.

 

He's not a leader and he has never been one.

 

That said, it's semi commonly known that "antifa" is heavily penetrated.  There may be concern about outing sources.

Just now, freefourur said:

It's interesting that when children get murdered by a shooter we cannot change laws at all because muhhh 2A. But when property is damaged we can completely shut down 1A without any push back (in fact encouragement) from "small government" folks. 

 

This highlights the hypocrisy more than anything else I can possibly think of.

21 minutes ago, Enginerd said:

The communication surrounding this could not possibly be worse. Are there specific threats?? Then tell us. Otherwise this is truly ridiculous.

 

It is sad to compare what is going on here to what is going on in Cbus. They have had 4 or 5 days of protest. They have a 'curfew' that is an actual curfew meaning... at night. Their mayor defended his officers but also is setting up a public email address for protestors to report excessive force and a civilian board to investigate cases. He is out in public. Meanwhile Frank just decided the city is cancelled after 1 day, ridiculous.

Edited June 2, 20205 yr by mu2010

6 minutes ago, freefourur said:

It's interesting that when children get murdered by a shooter we cannot change laws at all because muhhh 2A. But when property is damaged we can completely shut down 1A without any push back (in fact encouragement) from "small government" folks. 

 

You're comparing permanent changes in the law to something that is meant to be temporary.   I'm not a fan of it getting extended like it has.   But we did similar in response to COVID.   

Just now, E Rocc said:

 

You're comparing permanent changes in the law to something that is meant to be temporary.   I'm not a fan of it getting extended like it has.   But we did similar in response to COVID.   

 

The temporary cancellation of the first amendment came right at the moment people really wanted to use the first amendment.

5 minutes ago, E Rocc said:

 

You're comparing permanent changes in the law to something that is meant to be temporary.   I'm not a fan of it getting extended like it has.   But we did similar in response to COVID.   

So permanent changes to law are not worth it when it can affect the lives of children. But gassing people is important because the president needs to cross the street for a photo op.  Got it.

 

Also, i don't remember agents of the State tear gassing people and attacking journalists during COVID?

Edited June 2, 20205 yr by freefourur

1 minute ago, freefourur said:

Also, i don't remember agents of the State were tear gassing people and attacking journalists during COVID?

 

Armed COVID protestors banging on the doors of Ohio statehouse... No tear gas. Unarmed protestors banging on doors of cuyahoga county justice center.... Tear gas...

10 minutes ago, E Rocc said:

 

He's not a leader and he has never been one.

 

That said, it's semi commonly known that "antifa" is heavily penetrated.  There may be concern about outing sources.

It never made sense to have the “curfew” be during the daytime to begin with, so I agree with you there.

 

But even if they do think it’s the nebulous “antifa” (which by the way I think is a load of malarkey) show me the evidence. So far I haven’t seen one iota to give credence to that theory. The citizens have the right to know.