May 2, 20223 yr On 4/21/2022 at 6:13 PM, AsDustinFoxWouldSay said: It very much could be in 10 or 20 years. Can't see many of the homeowners there wanting to stay if a police officer can be killed over his car, or the fact that you can't take your kids to a neighborhood park when literal teenagers are shooting guns in the middle of the day. This is the same energy as the Magnificat moms that would drop girls off at my house in high school and tell them to stay in pairs because they're in ....... Parma Heights. Having said that. We have DEFINITELY tolerated way too much BS from the motorbike/ATV crowd over the last two years. I honestly dk what we can do to change it though, absent committing a LOT of police personnel to monitoring, which may be tough.
May 2, 20223 yr 35 minutes ago, YABO713 said: This is the same energy as the Magnificat moms that would drop girls off at my house in high school and tell them to stay in pairs because they're in ....... Parma Heights. Having said that. We have DEFINITELY tolerated way too much BS from the motorbike/ATV crowd over the last two years. I honestly dk what we can do to change it though, absent committing a LOT of police personnel to monitoring, which may be tough. Last night was cars. With license plates, that can't escape like motorcycles and ATVs can. The whole mess was clearly organized in advance. Probably had someone on scanner.
May 2, 20223 yr 40 minutes ago, E Rocc said: The city needs traffic calming measures asap. So many Cleveland roads can lose a lane or two- most roads are 25MPH but are designed for 55MPH/are only at "full" capacity around shift changes. We don't have the police force to enforce traffic violations so why not eliminate our 4-6 lane super highways cutting across town - shift all that crap to the Opportunity Corridor and Interstates. I'm coming at this from a cycling perspective where I see idiots flying by me while I'm actually going the speed limit (25+MPH). Edited May 2, 20223 yr by GISguy Typed out while listening to a podcast...didn't totally make sense..
May 2, 20223 yr 1 hour ago, GISguy said: The city needs traffic calming measures asap. So many Cleveland roads can lose a lane or two- most roads are 25MPH but are designed for 55MPH/are only at "full" capacity around shift changes. We don't have the police force to enforce traffic violations so why not eliminate our 4-6 lane super highways cutting across town - shift all that crap to the Opportunity Corridor and Interstates. I'm coming at this from a cycling perspective where I see idiots flying by me while I'm actually going the speed limit (25+MPH). Chester is such an obvious candidate for a road diet with protected bike lanes. How awesome would that be? When is the last time I-71 turned a profit?
May 3, 20223 yr 6 hours ago, Boomerang_Brian said: Chester is such an obvious candidate for a road diet with protected bike lanes. How awesome would that be? The guys doing these stunts won't care about protected bike lanes either. These are lawless people unafraid of consequences because they know the police are either understaffed, or sitting on their hands due to union pushdown.
May 3, 20223 yr I had heard that your new mayor was pretty clueless on how to handle things. But then I read this article---and, oh my, he really is bad. I feel for bad for you guys in Cleveland as I know he came in with much promise. And you're stuck with him for four more years! Rather than break up the chaos and take back control of the streets, rather than arrest at least some of the drivers, the police do nothing? Is Bibb scared of these the street thugs? Or just don't know what to do? Joyriders take over Cleveland intersections, perform donuts "Dozens of drivers took over several intersections and turned them into their personal stunt tracks Sunday night and into Monday morning all over Cleveland. The roving display of reckless driving spanned both the west and east sides, frustrating drivers every step of the way. The night started with a large car meet on the west side near a shopping center near West 110th Street and Lorain Avenue. Cleveland police received calls from perturbed neighbors who reported 30 to 40 vehicles were in the parking lot and many of them were doing donuts and burnouts. As police neared the area, the group scattered...." https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/local-news/cleveland-metro/joyriders-take-over-cleveland-intersections-perform-donuts
May 3, 20223 yr 32 minutes ago, jcw92 said: I had heard that your new mayor was pretty clueless on how to handle things. But then I read this article---and, oh my, he really is bad. I feel for bad for you guys in Cleveland as I know he came in with much promise. And you're stuck with him for four more years! Rather than break up the chaos and take back control of the streets, rather than arrest at least some of the drivers, the police do nothing? Is Bibb scared of these the street thugs? Or just don't know what to do? This is one of the more ignorant comments I’ve ever read on this board. The guys been in office less than four months. Cleveland is still the poorest big city in the country and has to deal with all of the problems associated with poverty. His magic wand must be broken. We are extremely thankful to finally have a person willing to put the time in who also has the skill set to make the necessary changes to get the city on the right trajectory. The idea that Cleveland is “stuck with him” is completely ridiculous. Now all that said, street racing is crazy dangerous for the locals and obnoxious for anyone forced to hear it. It needs to be dealt with. Paris is installing decibel meters to deal with loud engines. That would be great here. And street redesigns would help - the stupidly wide streets make street racing possible. Narrow it down, make people feel like they might damage their cars, and then they aren’t racing on those streets. When is the last time I-71 turned a profit?
May 3, 20223 yr Good evening/morning? gentleman, This has nothing to do with police understaffing or the union telling us not to deal with this problem. It has everything to do with we are not allowed to and will never get approved by a boss to chase these vehicles per our policy. I guess we could light them up and see if they pull over but that has happened never as you can imagine. The only time I've grabbed a dirt bike is at a gas station sans them getting gas or a dude trying to start his dirtbike but it won't start. It's funny to see you guys talk about this, unaware that this pretty much happens every single warm night in the fourth district. Particularly at Lee/Harvard. Clearly there isn't enough push back by residents over there, because our policy still holds. And ya, it's a real issue. Many times when these groups get together shootings happen. Other times cars race and crash into poles or houses; including fatal accidents. I've personally handled two felonious assault shootings that occured because of a Dodge Charger get together. I've also been on a double fatal where both racing Chargers (one driving the wrong way) raced down Harvard Ave and crashed into each other at 100mph. Luckily no one else was hurt.
May 3, 20223 yr 8 hours ago, jcw92 said: I had heard that your new mayor was pretty clueless on how to handle things. But then I read this article---and, oh my, he really is bad. I feel for bad for you guys in Cleveland as I know he came in with much promise. And you're stuck with him for four more years! Rather than break up the chaos and take back control of the streets, rather than arrest at least some of the drivers, the police do nothing? Is Bibb scared of these the street thugs? Or just don't know what to do? Joyriders take over Cleveland intersections, perform donuts "Dozens of drivers took over several intersections and turned them into their personal stunt tracks Sunday night and into Monday morning all over Cleveland. The roving display of reckless driving spanned both the west and east sides, frustrating drivers every step of the way. The night started with a large car meet on the west side near a shopping center near West 110th Street and Lorain Avenue. Cleveland police received calls from perturbed neighbors who reported 30 to 40 vehicles were in the parking lot and many of them were doing donuts and burnouts. As police neared the area, the group scattered...." https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/local-news/cleveland-metro/joyriders-take-over-cleveland-intersections-perform-donuts
May 3, 20223 yr 4 hours ago, KFM44107 said: Good evening/morning? gentleman, This has nothing to do with police understaffing or the union telling us not to deal with this problem. It has everything to do with we are not allowed to and will never get approved by a boss to chase these vehicles per our policy. I guess we could light them up and see if they pull over but that has happened never as you can imagine. The only time I've grabbed a dirt bike is at a gas station sans them getting gas or a dude trying to start his dirtbike but it won't start. It's funny to see you guys talk about this, unaware that this pretty much happens every single warm night in the fourth district. Particularly at Lee/Harvard. Clearly there isn't enough push back by residents over there, because our policy still holds. And ya, it's a real issue. Many times when these groups get together shootings happen. Other times cars race and crash into poles or houses; including fatal accidents. I've personally handled two felonious assault shootings that occured because of a Dodge Charger get together. I've also been on a double fatal where both racing Chargers (one driving the wrong way) raced down Harvard Ave and crashed into each other at 100mph. Luckily no one else was hurt. With a little more levity... they tried to take over W 25th on a night last summer, and two guys wiped out on their dirt bikes doing wheelies at about 25-30 MPH. Everyone on the street at the time cheered, loudly, when they fell. They got embarrassed and left lol.
May 3, 20223 yr I'm not sure the police can do much in these situations as they would just scatter like cockroaches once they arrive. I witnessed one of these events on Clifton Blvd in Lakewood a few years ago. It was dirt bikes, ATVs and such. It looked like a scene from a movie. As the former mayor used to say, it is what it is. Until the culture changes, nothing will change.
May 3, 20223 yr 6 minutes ago, LibertyBlvd said: I'm not sure the police can do much in these situations as they would just scatter like cockroaches once they arrive. I witnessed one of these events on Clifton Blvd in Lakewood a few years ago. It was dirt bikes, ATVs and such. It looked like a scene from a movie. As the former mayor used to say, it is what it is. Until the culture changes, nothing will change. Practically speaking, I think you're right. Having said that - I think this ends poorly. I could definitely see a parent taking matters into their own hands and things escalating very quickly. They shut down the boardwalk in the flats last year for almost 45 minutes, and when things finally had de-escalated, a patron had left for his apartment to "go get his gun" - I hear that directly from his mouth while we sat outside at Beerhead.
May 3, 20223 yr 1 hour ago, LibertyBlvd said: I'm not sure the police can do much in these situations as they would just scatter like cockroaches once they arrive. I witnessed one of these events on Clifton Blvd in Lakewood a few years ago. It was dirt bikes, ATVs and such. It looked like a scene from a movie. As the former mayor used to say, it is what it is. Until the culture changes, nothing will change. The former mayor would likely have proposed a drag race track. Maybe at League Park, where the RBI kids currently play.
May 3, 20223 yr 10 hours ago, jcw92 said: I had heard that your new mayor was pretty clueless on how to handle things. But then I read this article---and, oh my, he really is bad. I feel for bad for you guys in Cleveland as I know he came in with much promise. And you're stuck with him for four more years! Rather than break up the chaos and take back control of the streets, rather than arrest at least some of the drivers, the police do nothing? Is Bibb scared of these the street thugs? Or just don't know what to do? Joyriders take over Cleveland intersections, perform donuts "Dozens of drivers took over several intersections and turned them into their personal stunt tracks Sunday night and into Monday morning all over Cleveland. The roving display of reckless driving spanned both the west and east sides, frustrating drivers every step of the way. The night started with a large car meet on the west side near a shopping center near West 110th Street and Lorain Avenue. Cleveland police received calls from perturbed neighbors who reported 30 to 40 vehicles were in the parking lot and many of them were doing donuts and burnouts. As police neared the area, the group scattered...." https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/local-news/cleveland-metro/joyriders-take-over-cleveland-intersections-perform-donuts This has nothing to do with the mayor, also chill out with the trumpian rhetoric. @KFM44107 do you think chasing would be effective? I know Police Interceptors are high powered cars but you're dealing with high powered cars with idiots driving them. I've noticed OSHP choppers on FlightAware and occasionally CPD chopper up, but really do wonder what can prevent this type of stuff.
May 3, 20223 yr 1 hour ago, YABO713 said: Practically speaking, I think you're right. Having said that - I think this ends poorly. I could definitely see a parent taking matters into their own hands and things escalating very quickly. They shut down the boardwalk in the flats last year for almost 45 minutes, and when things finally had de-escalated, a patron had left for his apartment to "go get his gun" - I hear that directly from his mouth while we sat outside at Beerhead. If it happens again in a neighborhood I could definitely see a resident opening fire, perhaps with an AR or similar. My neighborhood is allegedly pretty well armed, so it could be by me. Or a rival gang could find out about an event.
May 3, 20223 yr Pretty sure this has been a problem across the nation, so once again, all the talk assuming that this is somehow a local thing arising from local conditions is pretty off base.
May 3, 20223 yr 3 minutes ago, GISguy said: do you think chasing would be effective? Absolutely. There is a reason why this stuff rarely spills into Lakewood or Parma. When it does the local PD is all over things and it's over pretty quickly.
May 3, 20223 yr 19 minutes ago, GISguy said: This has nothing to do with the mayor, also chill out with the trumpian rhetoric. @KFM44107 do you think chasing would be effective? I know Police Interceptors are high powered cars but you're dealing with high powered cars with idiots driving them. I've noticed OSHP choppers on FlightAware and occasionally CPD chopper up, but really do wonder what can prevent this type of stuff. While it's always easy for someone who has to do it (and @KFM44107once again let me say I'm glad to see you here providing perspective on these issues that was often sorely lacking), it seems like it would be easier to catch cars than dirt bikes or ATVs that can go off road. One thing might be intelligence. While people are saying the whole mess was impromptu, we saw a strange car rolling around the neighborhood a couple hours earlier (we dead end at the lake and most of our streets are technically private), which is not that common. Point of fact, with prior knowledge they might have trapped the pack approaching from each direction on Lakeshore and from the south on 156. Euclid and Bratenhal might have be willing to help. Likewise CCSO, and OSHP especially. Once a couple of these events get rousted, they likely get less popular. These are people for whom IDGAF is basically a motto, but they do care about getting busted. Edited May 3, 20223 yr by E Rocc
May 3, 20223 yr 8 hours ago, KFM44107 said: Good evening/morning? gentleman, This has nothing to do with police understaffing or the union telling us not to deal with this problem. It has everything to do with we are not allowed to and will never get approved by a boss to chase these vehicles per our policy. I guess we could light them up and see if they pull over but that has happened never as you can imagine. In other words it's leadership, not the people tasked to do the work. And by now yes, it has something to do with the mayor. I can't imagine how this commission is going to change things either. I'm tempted to apply, as I'm a resident and a civilian who has actually had to make random grownups do things they don't want to. This gives me about a 2% understanding of what officers have to deal with, but that's about 10X as much as most people, I suspect. But between my politics and my impatience with stupidity and/or sloganeering, that might not end well. Edited May 3, 20223 yr by E Rocc
May 3, 20223 yr 9 minutes ago, E Rocc said: In other words it's leadership, not the people tasked to do the work. And by now yes, it has something to do with the mayor. I can't imagine how this commission is going to change things either. I'm tempted to apply, as I'm a resident and a civilian who has actually had to make random grownups do things they don't want to. This gives me about a 2% understanding of what officers have to deal with, but that's about 10X as much as most people, I suspect. But between my politics and my impatience with stupidity and/or sloganeering, that might not end well. I wouldn't go as far as blaming the mayor. He's been around for four months and there's no way he's had time for the intricacies of the many departments he needs to fix. He certainly has atleast spent the time to figure out what first priorities are. To his benefit he has come out on patrol, and I've heard he's done this at every district. When they stuck him in the nicest car in the district and one of the patrol officers told him that they did so, he stated he should have been put in the worst car so he could have had a fair assessment of what we work with. He was visibly upset and said he would return again to get the real experience; and he seemed serious. He gave us an assessment of what vehicles that have been ordered and where they were at in terms of us getting them (microchip issues are holding back alot of the SUVs on backorder). Two weeks later we got two new chargers onto patrol. First time I've seen new cars since I started.
May 3, 20223 yr 1 hour ago, originaljbw said: Absolutely. There is a reason why this stuff rarely spills into Lakewood or Parma. When it does the local PD is all over things and it's over pretty quickly. Parma and Lakewood aren't the size or scope of Cleveland (or do they carry the same issues as Cle - funding, staffing, etc.). Apples to oranges comparison.
May 3, 20223 yr 19 minutes ago, GISguy said: Parma and Lakewood aren't the size or scope of Cleveland (or do they carry the same issues as Cle - funding, staffing, etc.). Apples to oranges comparison. This stuff spills into Parma and Lakewood weekly. They're just nice enough to get into full blown pursuits and bring it back into Cleveland and you never here about it in the news. Though rumor is from guys who left Cleveland to Lakewood and then came back, that Lakewood now has a pretty strict chase policy now.
May 3, 20223 yr Just now, KFM44107 said: This stuff spills into Parma and Lakewood weekly. They're just nice enough to get into full blown pursuits and bring it back into Cleveland and you never here about it in the news. Though rumor is from guys who left Cleveland to Lakewood and then came back, that Lakewood now has a pretty strict chase policy now. I saw Euclid chase some wannabe ATM thieves into the parking lot of Lakeshore Blvd Dave's at like 5:30am one morning and it looked like the invasion of Poland. I know Bratenhal will chase well past city limits but that may be just on the freeway.
May 3, 20223 yr 2 hours ago, GISguy said: @KFM44107 do you think chasing would be effective? I know Police Interceptors are high powered cars but you're dealing with high powered cars with idiots driving them. I've noticed OSHP choppers on FlightAware and occasionally CPD chopper up, but really do wonder what can prevent this type of stuff. Maybe the best thing that can be done is to take some video of the cars involved, get license plates, images of bikes and riders, etc. - so that if and when something else happens they can be used to track down the guilty parties.
May 3, 20223 yr 38 minutes ago, Foraker said: Maybe the best thing that can be done is to take some video of the cars involved, get license plates, images of bikes and riders, etc. - so that if and when something else happens they can be used to track down the guilty parties. I guess this is where it comes down to staffing l, which I know I said wasn't the main issue. Because we've decided this shouldn't be handled at the patrol level, and because we have decided that specialized units should handle this then you're at the mercy of when can a specialized unit come out and deal with this issue. I'm not going to give away our tactics but units do deal with this issue and there are successful results. It's just not often enough due to other crimes taking precedence, and lack of staffing. By the way just so everyone is aware, when I started my career three years ago my shift in the 4th district had 56 patrol officers detailed to it. After this month we will have 30.
May 3, 20223 yr 1 hour ago, KFM44107 said: I guess this is where it comes down to staffing l, which I know I said wasn't the main issue. Because we've decided this shouldn't be handled at the patrol level, and because we have decided that specialized units should handle this then you're at the mercy of when can a specialized unit come out and deal with this issue. I'm not going to give away our tactics but units do deal with this issue and there are successful results. It's just not often enough due to other crimes taking precedence, and lack of staffing. By the way just so everyone is aware, when I started my career three years ago my shift in the 4th district had 56 patrol officers detailed to it. After this month we will have 30. When the number of patrol officers drops by nearly 50% and it has going in this direction for three years, I don't know how effective the officers can be. It is amazing the job that you and your fellow offices do under ever-declining patrol numbers, but you can only be in one place at one time. If you are in that place for an extended period of time, the shortages only get magnified.
May 4, 20223 yr 15 hours ago, KFM44107 said: Though rumor is from guys who left Cleveland to Lakewood and then came back, that Lakewood now has a pretty strict chase policy now. Missed this the first time. Is there a common reason for their return? Are they permitted lateral transfer? I have out of state friends that grew up here, and would return if they could do a lateral. They say CPD doesn't accept those.
May 4, 20223 yr 15 hours ago, Foraker said: Maybe the best thing that can be done is to take some video of the cars involved, get license plates, images of bikes and riders, etc. - so that if and when something else happens they can be used to track down the guilty parties. What actions can be taken when the license plate is recorded but the car escapes? Don't they use the Shaggy Defense? ("It wasn't me.")
May 4, 20223 yr 2 hours ago, E Rocc said: Missed this the first time. Is there a common reason for their return? Are they permitted lateral transfer? I have out of state friends that grew up here, and would return if they could do a lateral. They say CPD doesn't accept those. We just had a lateral class. It only had three people in it. They do one every few years.
May 4, 20223 yr 9 minutes ago, KFM44107 said: We just had a lateral class. It only had three people in it. They do one every few years. Do you know how high of a rank they accept? My friend is an officer in Greensboro, NC. He's been on their force awhile. He grew up in Akron and is a major Cleveland sports fan (my co-admin on my FB Browns group) and has expressed an interest in returning.
May 4, 20223 yr 49 minutes ago, E Rocc said: Do you know how high of a rank they accept? My friend is an officer in Greensboro, NC. He's been on their force awhile. He grew up in Akron and is a major Cleveland sports fan (my co-admin on my FB Browns group) and has expressed an interest in returning. I've never seen a lateral for anything but patrol officers. With that being said, I'm unsure what the process is for people who hold out of state certifications. They might make him do the full blown academy again opposed to a lateral. I'd have him contact the department of public safety, they will have way more information than me.
May 4, 20223 yr 17 hours ago, KFM44107 said: I guess this is where it comes down to staffing l, which I know I said wasn't the main issue. Because we've decided this shouldn't be handled at the patrol level, and because we have decided that specialized units should handle this then you're at the mercy of when can a specialized unit come out and deal with this issue. CPD could have napped hundreds of bikes and ATV's at once a few years ago. I was on the Main Ave bridge stuck behind them while they were blocking traffic were doing tricks. One of their guys fell and hurt himself so they all circled around to check on him. In the meantime I was on the phone with 911 saying you have hundreds of these ATVs all on the Main Ave bridge. Just block both ends and the kids will have no where to go. I must have been stuck there 10 minutes as they continued to block the bridge, and no patrol cars ever showed up.
May 4, 20223 yr 16 minutes ago, Cleburger said: CPD could have napped hundreds of bikes and ATV's at once a few years ago. I was on the Main Ave bridge stuck behind them while they were blocking traffic were doing tricks. One of their guys fell and hurt himself so they all circled around to check on him. In the meantime I was on the phone with 911 saying you have hundreds of these ATVs all on the Main Ave bridge. Just block both ends and the kids will have no where to go. I must have been stuck there 10 minutes as they continued to block the bridge, and no patrol cars ever showed up. The funny thing is if they want to play at night there's plenty of industrial areas that close up shop late, or are more permanently closed. They are doing this to mess with people, "because they can" as my daughter's mom used to say when we were arguing. It's not going to go away on its own, eventually it's going to need to be made to go away. Edited May 4, 20223 yr by E Rocc
May 4, 20223 yr 4 hours ago, E Rocc said: What actions can be taken when the license plate is recorded but the car escapes? Don't they use the Shaggy Defense? ("It wasn't me.") No, but it was this vehicle -- now it's ours.
May 4, 20223 yr 1 hour ago, E Rocc said: The funny thing is if they want to play at night there's plenty of industrial areas that close up shop late, or are more permanently closed. Shhhhh that's prime night biking territory lol but seriously, you could have drag races all night on certain streets and nobody would know.
May 4, 20223 yr 1 hour ago, GISguy said: Shhhhh that's prime night biking territory lol but seriously, you could have drag races all night on certain streets and nobody would know. The street I grew up on in Maple had a completed but nearly house free street behind me, it was perfect for that.
May 5, 20223 yr On 5/4/2022 at 8:46 AM, Cleburger said: CPD could have napped hundreds of bikes and ATV's at once a few years ago. I was on the Main Ave bridge stuck behind them while they were blocking traffic were doing tricks. One of their guys fell and hurt himself so they all circled around to check on him. In the meantime I was on the phone with 911 saying you have hundreds of these ATVs all on the Main Ave bridge. Just block both ends and the kids will have no where to go. I must have been stuck there 10 minutes as they continued to block the bridge, and no patrol cars ever showed up. If there were literally hundreds, you wouldn't need a police force to apprehend them all, you'd need an army.
May 5, 20223 yr 1 hour ago, X said: If there were literally hundreds, you wouldn't need a police force to apprehend them all, you'd need an army. Well the kids could have jumped cop cars, but they would have to leave their bikes and ATVs behind. Would have wiped out their inventory for the near term.
May 5, 20223 yr 36 minutes ago, Cleburger said: Well the kids could have jumped cop cars, but they would have to leave their bikes and ATVs behind. Would have wiped out their inventory for the near term. I'm suggesting that it could have turned into a very dangerous situation for what very likely would have been a vastly outnumbered police force. Not worth getting a few bikes for.
May 10, 20223 yr Good on Parma PD for giving chase and not just letting a fleeting car go as it crosses the Cleveland city line. https://fox8.com/news/fleeing-car-crashes-into-bus-stop-concrete-planters/
May 10, 20223 yr 11 minutes ago, telefax said: Good on Parma PD for giving chase and not just letting a fleeting car go as it crosses the Cleveland city line. https://fox8.com/news/fleeing-car-crashes-into-bus-stop-concrete-planters/ Is this sarcasm? Someone could have died and all for a license plate that wasn't visible...
May 10, 20223 yr Just now, Luke_S said: Someone could have died and all for a license plate that wasn't visible... No--someone could have died for idiots failing to follow the law and be pulled over when directed to do so. A chase at 2pm in a crowded area should not be done. But at 1am on empty streets, I have no issue with. I'm tired of the lawlessness on our streets further empowered by no-chase policies and understaffed CPD.
May 10, 20223 yr 5 minutes ago, telefax said: No--someone could have died for idiots failing to follow the law and be pulled over when directed to do so. A chase at 2pm in a crowded area should not be done. But at 1am on empty streets, I have no issue with. I'm tired of the lawlessness on our streets further empowered by no-chase policies and understaffed CPD. From the article there was no other cause to pull these kids over than not having a license plate visible. Not exactly anarchy in the streets. Even at 1a a chase will likely lead to property damage or death. In this case only property damage, thankfully, but even that doesn't seem worth it for this violation.
May 10, 20223 yr It is not OK to drive a vehicle wIthout a visible license plate. It turns out the vehicle had been stolen, which is likely why they fled. And why are 16 year-olds out at 1:00 am? Edited May 10, 20223 yr by LibertyBlvd
May 11, 20223 yr If police NEVER give chase, then there is nothing to discourage criminals from running away. All they have to do is remove or replace their license plates, and they are virtually guaranteed to get away with whatever it is they've done or will do. If the police give chase even 10% of the time, then the alleged criminals have something to dissuade them from running. If you only look at one interaction giving chase never makes sense, but if you look at it as a series of events and possible chase scenarios, then giving chase some of the time makes sense.
May 11, 20223 yr 2 hours ago, LibertyBlvd said: It is not OK to drive a vehicle wIthout a visible license plate. It turns out the vehicle had been stolen, which is likely why they fled. And why are 16 year-olds out at 1:00 am? Those 16 year-olds don't have to worry about getting up early to go to school. Their "schooling" is coming on the streets. It would be interesting to find out what other crimes that were committed with that car.
May 11, 20223 yr 1 hour ago, Ethan said: If police NEVER give chase, then there is nothing to discourage criminals from running away. All they have to do is remove or replace their license plates, and they are virtually guaranteed to get away with whatever it is they've done or will do. If the police give chase even 10% of the time, then the alleged criminals have something to dissuade them from running. If you only look at one interaction giving chase never makes sense, but if you look at it as a series of events and possible chase scenarios, then giving chase some of the time makes sense. One of my employees was almost killed three weeks ago by someone running from a high speed chase. She was t-boned by the suspect exiting a freeway and blowing a light. Because of a stolen car. If you think giving chase over stolen cars is worthwhile, you need to consider how you would feel if you or someone you love was the innocent person killed in one of these chases. At least a few of the cops who were chasing were amped up and excited about the chase, as if it was some f’ing game. Please stop it with this garbage that cops should be pursuing high speed chases. It is only an acceptable option in the most egregious of situations. These chases are NOT worth the risks. When is the last time I-71 turned a profit?
May 11, 20223 yr 8 minutes ago, Boomerang_Brian said: One of my employees was almost killed three weeks ago by someone running from a high speed chase. She was t-boned by the suspect exiting a freeway and blowing a light. Because of a stolen car. If you think giving chase over stolen cars is worthwhile, you need to consider how you would feel if you or someone you love was the innocent person killed in one of these chases. At least a few of the cops who were chasing were amped up and excited about the chase, as if it was some f’ing game. Please stop it with this garbage that cops should be pursuing high speed chases. It is only an acceptable option in the most egregious of situations. These chases are NOT worth the risks. I'm sorry to hear that. I hope your employee is okay. That said I don't think this discussion will be improved by an appeal to emotion. Nothing in your reply indicates you gave any thought to any part of my comment, so I'll just let this conservation die. Once again, best wishes to your employee. No one deserves to have that happen to them.
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