May 11, 20223 yr 49 minutes ago, Ethan said: I'm sorry to hear that. I hope your employee is okay. That said I don't think this discussion will be improved by an appeal to emotion. Nothing in your reply indicates you gave any thought to any part of my comment, so I'll just let this conservation die. Once again, best wishes to your employee. No one deserves to have that happen to them. I have given thought to your comments and I emphatically repeat - the crimes that you are arguing merit police chase absolutely do not. The risk is too high. When we are discussing government policies we need to discuss how those policies impact people. It’s important to evaluate the actual impact and not just defer to initial gut reactions and simplistic logic. The latter frequently fail to provide proper guidance in complex systems. When is the last time I-71 turned a profit?
May 11, 20223 yr 7 hours ago, Boomerang_Brian said: One of my employees was almost killed three weeks ago by someone running from a high speed chase. She was t-boned by the suspect exiting a freeway and blowing a light. Because of a stolen car. If you think giving chase over stolen cars is worthwhile, you need to consider how you would feel if you or someone you love was the innocent person killed in one of these chases. At least a few of the cops who were chasing were amped up and excited about the chase, as if it was some f’ing game. Please stop it with this garbage that cops should be pursuing high speed chases. It is only an acceptable option in the most egregious of situations. These chases are NOT worth the risks. If you say that a crime is not worth a chase you are saying it is not worth enforcing. We've had first hand testimony here that criminals do not pull over when they get lit up. If they can't be chased, they get away with it. Leaving aside the value of the theft, stolen cars are used to commit other crimes.
May 11, 20223 yr We need some solution. We don't want crazy police chases in the city where there are innocent people around. But we also cannot have a city where the standing policy is---you may commit any crime you want and if the police tell you to pull over, you may ignore them. There are more than two options here of chase or no chase.
May 11, 20223 yr I'm not in law enforcement and have very little technical knowledge on how drones work. But I'm thinking there has to be a way to track these cars either not following traffic laws or fleeing from the scene of another crime without a high speed chase on the streets occurring. Say an officer gets called to the scene and has a description of the vehicle. Once they have a visual of the car, they pop a drone in the air and follow the car that way instead of going lights and sirens at high speeds. I know that drones only have a certain range away from their operator, so the responding officer would probably have to stay within a mile or so, but they could do that at normal road speeds because the suspects won't know they are being followed. Eventually, you will find the final location of the suspects and move in to arrest them with backup. Without putting the rest of the drivers and pedestrians in the area at risk. For those with law enforcement experience on this forum, does that even sound plausible? I feel like with the technological advances that have been made in the last 20 years, there is a happy medium to still enforce the laws without the outdated method of high speed pursuits.
May 11, 20223 yr Speaking of no-chase, these yahoos have had free reign over our streets for years (EDIT no, I'm not referring to City Council! LOL) "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 11, 20223 yr 3 hours ago, OliverHazardPerry said: I'm not in law enforcement and have very little technical knowledge on how drones work. But I'm thinking there has to be a way to track these cars either not following traffic laws or fleeing from the scene of another crime without a high speed chase on the streets occurring. Say an officer gets called to the scene and has a description of the vehicle. Once they have a visual of the car, they pop a drone in the air and follow the car that way instead of going lights and sirens at high speeds. I know that drones only have a certain range away from their operator, so the responding officer would probably have to stay within a mile or so, but they could do that at normal road speeds because the suspects won't know they are being followed. Eventually, you will find the final location of the suspects and move in to arrest them with backup. Without putting the rest of the drivers and pedestrians in the area at risk. For those with law enforcement experience on this forum, does that even sound plausible? I feel like with the technological advances that have been made in the last 20 years, there is a happy medium to still enforce the laws without the outdated method of high speed pursuits. Drones is what I was thinking, too. I would think that for an operator like a city, there should be ways of extending the range of a dri5ne with control towers and multiple drones handing off the chase. That said, it isn't foolproof to track someone from the air. It would take time to get a drone up and in position, and there are ways to hide from air pursuit.
May 11, 20223 yr 1 minute ago, X said: Drones is what I was thinking, too. I would think that for an operator like a city, there should be ways of extending the range of a dri5ne with control towers and multiple drones handing off the chase. That said, it isn't foolproof to track someone from the air. It would take time to get a drone up and in position, and there are ways to hide from air pursuit. Shouldn't all patrol officers be trained to use drones that sit on a charger in each patrol car? And why not have drones be programmed with three modes -- manual, a geostationary mode and a geo-proximate mode to remain above each officer wearing a corresponding GPS device? And, to add to the fun, could officers be equipped with a gun that fires a sticky and/or magnetic GPS device that attaches to a vehicle or a person so the drone can follow it/them? "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 11, 20223 yr 1 minute ago, KJP said: Shouldn't all patrol officers be trained to use drones that sit on a charger in each patrol car? And why not have drones be programmed with three modes -- manual, a geostationary mode and a geo-proximate mode to remain above each officer wearing a corresponding GPS device? And, to add to the fun, could officers be equipped with a gun that fires a sticky and/or magnetic GPS device that attaches to a vehicle or a person so the drone can follow it/them? This seems like it tees up some avenues to abuse due process and probablyyyyyyyy a 4th Amendment violation
May 11, 20223 yr I know the Parma Police have a few drones already. I believe they are only used when pursing a criminal who is traveling on foot through backyards, wooded areas, etc.
May 11, 20223 yr 16 hours ago, Boomerang_Brian said: I have given thought to your comments and I emphatically repeat - the crimes that you are arguing merit police chase absolutely do not. The risk is too high. When we are discussing government policies we need to discuss how those policies impact people. It’s important to evaluate the actual impact and not just defer to initial gut reactions and simplistic logic. The latter frequently fail to provide proper guidance in complex systems. It is extremely unfortunate that your employee was injured and could have been killed due to a police pursuit. There have been many situations that have been documented where the police either break off pursuits immediately or shortly starting one, yet the drivers of the vehicles in question decided not to slow down. They flee at high rates of speed even though they aren't being chased and still cause bad or even tragic accidents. Who is to blame then? The bigger question is why has fleeing from police become a real life video game? If they are fleeing at high speed, either being chased or not, what have they done to warrant it? It does seem to appear that many carjackings and such have been carried multiple times by the same repeat offenders. One thing that may help, if Cleveland can get its act together (like keeping maintenance contracts active and equipment available) is to have the helicopters active. Generally, these chases are at night. It seems that a least one helicopter needs to be airborne during the hours of highest risk. It also means that the unit needs to be expanded. Drones are good, but they don't have the abilities that staffed helicopters provide. Cleveland shouldn't have to fall back on a county or highway unit.
May 11, 20223 yr 13 hours ago, E Rocc said: If you say that a crime is not worth a chase you are saying it is not worth enforcing. We've had first hand testimony here that criminals do not pull over when they get lit up. If they can't be chased, they get away with it. Leaving aside the value of the theft, stolen cars are used to commit other crimes. That is not what I am saying. While I recognize that it would be "more difficult" for police to apprehend a suspect if chase is typically restricted, it's not like this is the only enforcement mechanism. The drone conversation above is a great example of a creative solution that would dramatically reduce risk. Furthermore, as if innocent people getting isn't enough reason to avoid chase, in this situation my employee's car was totaled. So now we have two totaled vehicles and a near death experience. Again, the risks are just not worth it. 2 hours ago, LifeLongClevelander said: It is extremely unfortunate that your employee was injured and could have been killed due to a police pursuit. There have been many situations that have been documented where the police either break off pursuits immediately or shortly starting one, yet the drivers of the vehicles in question decided not to slow down. They flee at high rates of speed even though they aren't being chased and still cause bad or even tragic accidents. Who is to blame then? The bigger question is why has fleeing from police become a real life video game? If they are fleeing at high speed, either being chased or not, what have they done to warrant it? It does seem to appear that many carjackings and such have been carried multiple times by the same repeat offenders. One thing that may help, if Cleveland can get its act together (like keeping maintenance contracts active and equipment available) is to have the helicopters active. Generally, these chases are at night. It seems that a least one helicopter needs to be airborne during the hours of highest risk. It also means that the unit needs to be expanded. Drones are good, but they don't have the abilities that staffed helicopters provide. Cleveland shouldn't have to fall back on a county or highway unit. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter if some criminal is to blame. That isn't going to bring back the innocent people that have been killed in these chases. We can't control what the criminals do. What we can - and must - do is analyze the real results of these government policies and then adapt them to minimize harm. And continually reevaluate those policies and results, and be willing to continue to adapt as we learn more. And helicopters are NOT a good solution, come on. They are super expensive and truly obnoxious (with regards to noise) for residents. The Columbus PD helicopter crew was recently called out for literally spelling "CPD" with the flight path of the helicopter over poor neighborhoods. This is not the way to handle these challenges. When is the last time I-71 turned a profit?
May 12, 20223 yr 14 hours ago, Boomerang_Brian said: That is not what I am saying. While I recognize that it would be "more difficult" for police to apprehend a suspect if chase is typically restricted, it's not like this is the only enforcemnt mechanism. The drone conversation above is a great example of a creative solution that would dramatically reduce risk. Furthermore, as if innocent people getting isn't enough reason to avoid chase, in this situation my employee's car was totaled. So now we have two totaled vehicles and a near death experience. Again, the risks are just not worth it. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter if some criminal is to blame. That isn't going to bring back the innocent people that have been killed in these chases. We can't control what the criminals do. What we can - and must - do is analyze the real results of these government policies and then adapt them to minimize harm. And continually reevaluate those policies and results, and be willing to continue to adapt as we learn more. And helicopters are NOT a good solution, come on. They are super expensive and truly obnoxious (with regards to noise) for residents. The Columbus PD helicopter crew was recently called out for literally spelling "CPD" with the flight path of the helicopter over poor neighborhoods. This is not the way to handle these challenges. Well, right now the fleeing from police is pretty much out of control. We could have ZERO chases, but when the criminals take off at a high rate of speed, bad things will happen. They can crash without being chased or they make a clean escape to commit more crimes. There aren't any guarantees that either way there will be anybody will be hurt or worse. If helicopter units are so expensive, then why have them if they aren't being used other than rare instances? It would be "cheaper" to have rentals when needed. For all anybody knows, the ones who flee at high-speed may start thinking of not having their high-speed getaways if the odds of getting caught go up significantly. And when they do get caught, the penalties need to be stiff. Right now, they have little fear of getting caught. As for the Columbus PD helicopter crew, that incident should have their last flight in that unit and faced serious disciplinary action. To base what any city's helicopter usage should be based upon an incident in another city is foolish. The only thing that should come of that is to "spell out" out the Columbus incident is the example that was made out of those officers. Edited May 12, 20223 yr by LifeLongClevelander
May 12, 20223 yr "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 12, 20223 yr 20 hours ago, YABO713 said: This seems like it tees up some avenues to abuse due process and probablyyyyyyyy a 4th Amendment violation How so? "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 12, 20223 yr Regarding @OliverHazardPerry 's approach to use drones, it seems that may be where the city is thinking--published yesterday: "Cleveland Public Safety [Director] Karrie Howard said the city is working on an ordinance to stop ATVs, dirt bikes, and other reckless drivers from taking over the city's streets during the city's public safety committee meeting Wednesday.... Mooney said the city will use police drones to track down the drivers, but, in a separate statement, police say the city's drone program isn't off the ground yet. Mooney said the details of the new ordinances are still being discussed, but they will be modeled after similar laws in Baltimore, Columbus, and Washington D.C...." https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/local-news/investigations/cleveland-will-create-ordinance-to-stop-atvs-dirt-bikes-and-joyriders-from-taking-over-the-streets Glad to see the city is finally doing something. Now lets just hope the legislation makes sense and if it does, its properly enforced. Edited May 12, 20223 yr by telefax
May 12, 20223 yr 13 minutes ago, KJP said: How so? Putting a GPS device on someone's car probably requires a warrant, like a wiretap. With a drone, it would require the officer to remain within range the entire time, which I think gives them more latitude on how they can pursue. I'm not a lawyer though, completely speculating here.
May 12, 20223 yr 15 hours ago, Boomerang_Brian said: The drone conversation above is a great example of a creative solution that would dramatically reduce risk. The "drone conversation" is also completely ill-informed. Unless the operator is able to stay within 1500' of the fleeing suspects, drones will not do the job even with a Tactical Beyond Visual Line of Sight Waiver from the FAA: https://www.faa.gov/uas/public_safety_gov/public_safety_toolkit/media/TBVLOS_Waiver_Final.pdf Creative approaches should be encouraged, but there's no magic bullet and even creative solutions require a foundation built on traditional law enforcement. The hands off approach is encouraging a culture of lawlessness, and proving the broken window theory right.
May 12, 20223 yr 1 hour ago, OliverHazardPerry said: Putting a GPS device on someone's car probably requires a warrant, like a wiretap. Attaching a GPS device on the vehicle sounds interesting, but if the vehicle is stolen, police will likely find it abandoned and the culprits will be long gone. Edited May 12, 20223 yr by LibertyBlvd
May 13, 20223 yr Stricter enforcement or new solutions? Cleveland City Council debates tackling crime in the city Quote Early on, the committee’s chairman, Mike Polensek, asked interim Chief of Police Wayne Drummond whether he’s seeing an increase in crime committed by young people. “Overall, I don’t think it’s increasing, as far as the juvenile crimes are concerned,” Drummond said. “Are they involved in certain things? Absolutely, no question about it. Are they involved in some carjackings? Absolutely. And so are adults and so forth.” I've hit on this before, but I think this is too often lost in discussions of crime. Though we've seen increases, nationwide, the past few years that is from historic lows and rates of crime are still generally below the crime rates in the '90s. The article goes on to quote Mooney who claims "[we] have roving bands of lawlessness, with loaded firearms, going through our neighborhoods, terrorizing people" when talking about the dirt bikes and ATVs driving through the city, even though there has been no shootings or violence connected to those gatherings. Baseless claims like this are irresponsible, and unnecessary when I think everyone agrees we need to address the ATV issue even though they aren't riding around armed. On police pursuit: Quote “The possibilities of a zone car, which is probably what’s going to respond for a call for service for dirt bikes, of actually stopping a motorcycle is almost nil,” Drummond said. “The motorcycles have the ability to go up on the sidewalks, and they go up on the sidewalks. The motorcycles have the ability to weave in and out of traffic.” https://www.ideastream.org/news/stricter-enforcement-or-new-solutions-cleveland-city-council-debates-tackling-crime-in-the-city
May 13, 20223 yr 39 minutes ago, Luke_S said: Stricter enforcement or new solutions? Cleveland City Council debates tackling crime in the city I've hit on this before, but I think this is too often lost in discussions of crime. Though we've seen increases, nationwide, the past few years that is from historic lows and rates of crime are still generally below the crime rates in the '90s. The article goes on to quote Mooney who claims "[we] have roving bands of lawlessness, with loaded firearms, going through our neighborhoods, terrorizing people" when talking about the dirt bikes and ATVs driving through the city, even though there has been no shootings or violence connected to those gatherings. Baseless claims like this are irresponsible, and unnecessary when I think everyone agrees we need to address the ATV issue even though they aren't riding around armed. On police pursuit: https://www.ideastream.org/news/stricter-enforcement-or-new-solutions-cleveland-city-council-debates-tackling-crime-in-the-city From someone who is a police officer, that claim is definitely incorrect. We absolutely have had shootings connected with these gatherings. Sometimes the shootings occur later at after parties in re: beefs during these gatherings. Edited May 13, 20223 yr by KFM44107
May 13, 20223 yr 8 minutes ago, KFM44107 said: From someone who is a police officer, that claim is definitely incorrect. We absolutely have had shootings connected with these gatherings. Sometimes the shootings occur later at after parties in re: beefs during these gatherings. Thank you for setting the record straight on that, always appreciate your insight.
May 13, 20223 yr 15 minutes ago, Luke_S said: Thank you for setting the record straight on that, always appreciate your insight. No problem. That stuff usually doesn't make the news because it typically occurs at a gas station in the fourth or at some after hours spot, which shootings occur so often there the news doesn't even care to report it. I will say dirtbike violence doesn't really occur during the day, or in nicer areas. Typically they seem to be alcohol fueled disagreements in the middle of the night. But you can say that for like 90 percent of shootings. If I'm being honest with you, if you aren't at a corner store or a gas station, or some illegal after hours joint from 11pm-4am. Or if you aren't involved in some real bad domestic situation with your partner, your odds of being a victim of a shooting are very very low, even in the "hood". Edited May 13, 20223 yr by KFM44107
May 16, 20223 yr On 5/13/2022 at 9:30 AM, KFM44107 said: If I'm being honest with you, if you aren't at a corner store or a gas station, or some illegal after hours joint from 11pm-4am. Or if you aren't involved in some real bad domestic situation with your partner, your odds of being a victim of a shooting are very very low, even in the "hood". I'm always telling people this when they try and tell me 'how dangerous the city is' - like, as long as you aren't being an idiot or mixed up in something dumb you're going to be fine. I bike a bunch of the 'bad' areas and shoot, more people wave to me or are friendly towards me compared to the fancier parts of town (or suburbs for that matter).
May 20, 20223 yr "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 23, 20223 yr Yay. https://fox8.com/news/15-arrested-in-clevelands-operation-wheels-down/ This could be what happens when you are bold enough to advertise your citywide "ride out" on Instagram.
May 24, 20223 yr Didn't even register as a major news story. Apparently a guy in a black SUV was driving around shooting at people.... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 24, 20223 yr Whst a great country we live in. Civilization fraying right before our eyes. What next??
May 25, 20223 yr The city is changing it's approach to policing ATVs Cleveland’s dirt-bike strategy dramatically altered course over the weekend, evidenced by arrests before riding began Cleveland stiffens penalties, increases fines for dirt bike riders
May 25, 20223 yr I was in Philly the other night and they were ripping around center city as well. We are not alone!
May 25, 20223 yr 9 hours ago, Cleburger said: I was in Philly the other night and they were ripping around center city as well. We are not alone! Also happens nightly up and down DuSable Lakeshore Dr and throughout the Loop/ N Michigan Ave in Chicago on warm nice weather nights. I can see and hear it from my window on LSD.
May 25, 20223 yr 10 hours ago, Cleburger said: I was in Philly the other night and they were ripping around center city as well. We are not alone! I seriously hope that no one actually believed Cleveland was unique in this! And you know, sometimes I have to remind myself that this is probably just what was said about the “hot-rodders” in the ‘50s and ‘60s. And yet, today many look back on that culture with nostalgia. That being said, the Charger boys (man, Stellantis could make such an impact by just ceasing production of those dinosaurs, but they’re profit monsters) and the ATV/dirt bike gangs have been wreaking havoc on the spring/summer streets of DC as much as anywhere for the past decade. You name the big city and I challenge to find one that doesn’t have a news story to this effect. Great to hear that Cleveland is stepping up/innovating it’s enforcement efforts. Edited May 25, 20223 yr by brtshrcegr
May 25, 20223 yr 31 minutes ago, brtshrcegr said: I seriously hope that no one actually believed Cleveland was unique in this! And you know, sometimes I have to remind myself that this is probably just what was said about the “hot-rodders” in the ‘50s and ‘60s. And yet, today many look back on that culture with nostalgia. That being said, the Charger boys (man, Stellantis could make such an impact by just ceasing production of those dinosaurs, but they’re profit monsters) and the ATV/dirt bike gangs have been wreaking havoc on the spring/summer streets of DC as much as anywhere for the past decade. You name the big city and I challenge to find one that doesn’t have a news story to this effect. Great to hear that Cleveland is stepping up/innovating it’s enforcement efforts. I think the big difference with the "hot rodder" culture was that they found unused roads in industrial areas or outside of town, usually at midnight, to race on instead of public streets full of bystanders in the middle of the day. They also didn't drive up onto the sidewalks.
May 25, 20223 yr 3 minutes ago, X said: I think the big difference with the "hot rodder" culture was that they found unused roads in industrial areas or outside of town, usually at midnight, to race on instead of public streets full of bystanders in the middle of the day. They also didn't drive up onto the sidewalks. Beyond that - as some of the arrests last year suggested - a number of the riders came to Cleveland from neighboring states solely for this purpose
June 1, 20223 yr Thoughts @KFM44107? "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 1, 20223 yr ^ This 2017 staffing report was kinda interesting. Goes into per capita approach v. workload based staffing a little bit: https://www.clevelandohio.gov/sites/default/files/forms_publications/PoliceStaffingReport2.17.2019.pdf
June 1, 20223 yr 2 hours ago, KJP said: Thoughts @KFM44107? I think I mentioned it in passing before but it's crazy how many officers we have in admin roles/specialized units compared to these other cities. It's also crazy how many roles are staffed with sworn officers that anywhere else is staffed by civilian staff who could do the job better for half the price, including our payroll unit, and our front office staff. Im almost certain that if you compared all of these cities to how many officers are on basic patrol, Cleveland would have the least amount of basic patrol officers per capita. They will eventually have to make changes and then you will see alot of the older guys retire if they get put back on patrol. Edited June 1, 20223 yr by KFM44107
June 1, 20223 yr 1 hour ago, Whipjacka said: ^ This 2017 staffing report was kinda interesting. Goes into per capita approach v. workload based staffing a little bit: https://www.clevelandohio.gov/sites/default/files/forms_publications/PoliceStaffingReport2.17.2019.pdf I get weekly staffing reports, unfortunately I am not allowed to share those. It's looking pretty grim though. We need atleast two classes of 100 academy cadets a year to just break even. Our most recent class that was appointed last week has 20.......
June 1, 20223 yr On 5/25/2022 at 8:58 AM, X said: I think the big difference with the "hot rodder" culture was that they found unused roads in industrial areas or outside of town, usually at midnight, to race on instead of public streets full of bystanders in the middle of the day. They also didn't drive up onto the sidewalks. I made a similar point elsewhere the other day. The street behind me in Maple was fully paved but didn't have more than a couple houses until the mid 80s. The cross street wasn't even connected on either side yet. You can guess the rest, and since that was Firebird era for me, I might not have just heard the noise. There was some acting out at BR (Bedford Reservation) but not that much and there were no efforts to take over the road or flaunt illegal activity. As for the regular streets....nearly none. This is all about being openly disruptive. Edited June 1, 20223 yr by E Rocc
June 9, 20223 yr I love this idea. But you read the comments on the original article and you realize that people would complain if you were handing out free gold bars. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 9, 20223 yr 12 minutes ago, KJP said: I love this idea. But you read the comments on the original article and you realize that people would complain if you were handing out free gold bars. You read the comments and you realize most of the people commenting didn't take the time to read past the headline...
June 9, 20223 yr Who could be against this plan? Cops getting to know the locals, building bridges. That's one step of many necessary to improve the relationship between the community and the police.
June 27, 20222 yr 9 hours ago, Boomerang_Brian said: https://www.wkyc.com/article/news/local/cleveland/cleveland-missing-cat-mistaken-cheetah/95-bfee9416-4851-4a49-a8c4-5795b6ae4eed clevelandskyscrapers.com Cleveland Skyscrapers on Instagram
June 27, 20222 yr In the City of Cleveland, what are the laws regarding people sitting beside a road outside a closed business, drinking and leaving a mess? Take that last part as you will. What are the chances of CPD cruisers rolling by or even stopping to scatter them? We seem to have developed an “open air bar” on E. 156th north of Lakeshore adjacent to the old Walgreens. I plan to use the neighborhood watch twitter to call on CPD/Bibb etc. about this, but wanted to get some input first.
June 27, 20222 yr 4 hours ago, MayDay said: https://www.wkyc.com/article/news/local/cleveland/cleveland-missing-cat-mistaken-cheetah/95-bfee9416-4851-4a49-a8c4-5795b6ae4eed That is one sweet looking house cat. When is the last time I-71 turned a profit?
June 27, 20222 yr 1 hour ago, E Rocc said: In the City of Cleveland, what are the laws regarding people sitting beside a road outside a closed business, drinking and leaving a mess? Take that last part as you will. What are the chances of CPD cruisers rolling by or even stopping to scatter them? We seem to have developed an “open air bar” on E. 156th north of Lakeshore adjacent to the old Walgreens. I plan to use the neighborhood watch twitter to call on CPD/Bibb etc. about this, but wanted to get some input first. Open containers are certainly illegal.
June 27, 20222 yr 5 hours ago, Boomerang_Brian said: That is one sweet looking house cat. Quite a scare! Lol. I'm guessing every resident with a pet antelope was losing sleep last night!
July 6, 20222 yr Scrapyard fire: https://fox8.com/news/live-plume-of-smoke-seen-from-cleveland-scrapyard-fire/
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