9 hours ago, AsDustinFoxWouldSay said:

Parma definitely pursues into the city. 

 

I'll never forget when Euclid (and likely other departments) chased some ATM thieves into my neighborhood at like 530am, it looked like the invasion of Poland.   A couple CPD cruisers were buzzing around the periphery like kids who hadn't been included.

44 minutes ago, KJP said:

I got youse buddies a present for Halloweeny @E Rocc

 

 

You're forgetting where I live LOL.

Not Cleveland specific, but much needed context that is very often lacking in these discussions. 

 

Why examining U.S. crime rates isn't as straightforward as you might think

October 27, 20225:03 AM ET

https://www.npr.org/2022/10/27/1131825858/why-examining-u-s-crime-rates-isnt-as-straightforward-as-you-might-think

 

Quote

When you talk about violent crime, you're talking about aggravated assault, murder, rape and robbery. That has gone down since the '90s. It increased a little bit in 2020. It probably increased a little bit or was even in 2021. But even that, when we talk about crime, is not what people think of. What they're really thinking of is murder and gun violence. And murder makes up 0.2%, about, of all big-picture crimes every year. But it's really the thing - it's the crime with the most societal harm. It's the thing that people tend to care about the most.

 

And so when we talk about murder, yes, we've seen a pretty dramatic uptick over the last two-plus years. It went up almost 30% in 2020. It probably was up about 4 or 5% nationally in 2021. And this year, we're probably seeing a 4 to 5% decline relative to 2021. So we're still at this really highly elevated level now compared to where we were in 2019. Now, if we go back to the '90s, we're still down significantly 30 or 40%, but we're much higher than we were three or four years ago.

 

Quote

And I think that what has given it so much potency in the midterms is that the increase in murder in 2020 really was a national phenomenon. It happened in big cities. It happened in small cities. It happened in counties that voted for Trump. It happened in counties that voted for Biden. It was really everywhere. And so I think that most places in America are grappling with at least some increase in gun violence over the last two years, which brings it to the forefront of these elections as they're taking place now.

 

6 minutes ago, Luke_S said:

Not Cleveland specific, but much needed context that is very often lacking in these discussions. 

 

Why examining U.S. crime rates isn't as straightforward as you might think

October 27, 20225:03 AM ET

https://www.npr.org/2022/10/27/1131825858/why-examining-u-s-crime-rates-isnt-as-straightforward-as-you-might-think

 

 

 

Anacdotally, crime (or atleast call for service) feels way down this year. It's been so much more quiet compared to the last two years I worked the road. 

13 minutes ago, Luke_S said:

Not Cleveland specific, but much needed context that is very often lacking in these discussions. 

 

Why examining U.S. crime rates isn't as straightforward as you might think

October 27, 20225:03 AM ET

https://www.npr.org/2022/10/27/1131825858/why-examining-u-s-crime-rates-isnt-as-straightforward-as-you-might-think

 

 

 

 

The irony being that Democrats are about to get hammered for it because it's getting tied around Biden's neck, when it was Trump that was in office during the big run-up.

 

Of course, presidents don't really impact the murder numbers in any appreciable way, which is just the double irony of it.

So like is the city going to keep it's head stuck in the sand when it comes to Public Square safety? You now have multiple buildings on the Square currently or destined to be residential, and sh*t like this keeps happening as well as the loitering and menacing that occurs by panhandlers to pedestrians. I have not met a soul who lives downtown who enjoys walking through Public Square, especially in the evening, to get to the Warehouse District or The Flats. 

16 minutes ago, AsDustinFoxWouldSay said:

So like is the city going to keep it's head stuck in the sand when it comes to Public Square safety? You now have multiple buildings on the Square currently or destined to be residential, and sh*t like this keeps happening as well as the loitering and menacing that occurs by panhandlers to pedestrians. I have not met a soul who lives downtown who enjoys walking through Public Square, especially in the evening, to get to the Warehouse District or The Flats. 

Seems I hit a feather with some people, like it's to much to admit that Public Square is not a safe place to walk through (when it should be). I lived downtown many years before I had to leave for a job. So I'm not talking as a scared suburbanite who tries to avoid downtown. Public Square is probably the least ideal place to walk through in the evening. And many of my downtown neighbors felt the same way. You have a bunch of people loitering, panhandling, and arguing/yelling at each other with no police presence to speak of. It's becoming expected shootings occur. 

I don’t disagree that there are issues to be addressed but this debate usually leads to a locked thread. 🤷🏻‍♂️ I’m not sure what the answer is. 

4 minutes ago, mrclifton88 said:

I don’t disagree that there are issues to be addressed but this debate usually leads to a locked thread. 🤷🏻‍♂️ I’m not sure what the answer is. 

I mean idk what the point of having a thread for Cleveland crime if talking about the problems leads it to being locked then. 

1 hour ago, AsDustinFoxWouldSay said:

Seems I hit a feather with some people, like it's to much to admit that Public Square is not a safe place to walk through (when it should be). I lived downtown many years before I had to leave for a job. So I'm not talking as a scared suburbanite who tries to avoid downtown. Public Square is probably the least ideal place to walk through in the evening. And many of my downtown neighbors felt the same way. You have a bunch of people loitering, panhandling, and arguing/yelling at each other with no police presence to speak of. It's becoming expected shootings occur. 

 

Again:  people with options won't live somewhere they are not comfortable, and stuff like this isn't something most people are comfortable around.   It doesn't need to rise to the level of violent crime if it looks like there's a good chance it might.

Apparently the guy and another fellow were playing street craps when the shooter walked up and shot the guy. Again, I find it hard to believe a cop or two patrolling the square frequently wouldn't have broke that up and make those guys leave.

4 minutes ago, AsDustinFoxWouldSay said:

Apparently the guy and another fellow were playing street craps when the shooter walked up and shot the guy. Again, I find it hard to believe a cop or two patrolling the square frequently wouldn't have broke that up and make those guys leave.

 

We had what we called the "open air bar" on the curb of 156 just north of Lakeshore.  One of the neighbors went over to get them to leave, they wouldn't.   It  got snippy, the cops were called.  They asked the non-residents to leave, they refused and they couldn't make them.

 

Rumor is someone cracked a couple eggs over there to get rid of them, but that's not ideal.   

Not sure how more cops would make this situation better. The real problem is people not having the mental wherewithal to realize you can solve disputes without guns. This comes down to our city being broken and mental health being so absolutely low on the funding spectrum that folks really think shooting someone over a dumb argument is the smart thing to do. The trauma in this city is real and unless you catch it early you'll keep ending up with situations like these. 

53 minutes ago, GISguy said:

Not sure how more cops would make this situation better. The real problem is people not having the mental wherewithal to realize you can solve disputes without guns. This comes down to our city being broken and mental health being so absolutely low on the funding spectrum that folks really think shooting someone over a dumb argument is the smart thing to do. The trauma in this city is real and unless you catch it early you'll keep ending up with situations like these. 

 

^ This. And how many times do we find out the perpetrator of these crimes is some repeat offender? We need to start doing a better job of segregating violent people from the rest of society; in a way that is ethical and when possible, rehabilitative. But people who are one argument away from shooting another person do not deserve to walk freely among us. 

3 hours ago, AsDustinFoxWouldSay said:

Seems I hit a feather with some people, like it's to much to admit that Public Square is not a safe place to walk through (when it should be). I lived downtown many years before I had to leave for a job. So I'm not talking as a scared suburbanite who tries to avoid downtown. Public Square is probably the least ideal place to walk through in the evening. And many of my downtown neighbors felt the same way. You have a bunch of people loitering, panhandling, and arguing/yelling at each other with no police presence to speak of. It's becoming expected shootings occur. 

 

I agree Public Square should be a safe place. As others have said we need more mental health funding and non-recidivism, those are national and large issues. While those should be pursued, we need faster, short-term, simpler solutions at the local level----and that would be well-trained cops who walk the beat throughout the square 24/7.

Edited October 31, 20222 yr by jcw92

11 minutes ago, jcw92 said:

 

I agree Public Square should be a safe place. As others have said we need more mental health funding and non-recidivism, those are national and large issues. While those should be pursued, we need faster, short-term, simpler solutions at the local level----and that would be well-trained cops who walk the beat throughout the square 24/7.

 

I'll double down and say that more cops is not the answer walking the beat or not. You need people that are capable of creating relationships with and garnering respect of people on the square. Cops are not the answer to that. If you can find community members to adopt the space and know the people, keep eyes on the square (or neighborhood or wherever) stuff like this should be prevented. Maybe I'm kumbaya'ing with Jane Jacobs a bit hard at this point but we need to stop with the more cops will solve it rhetoric.

FWIW I've seen the street ambassadors diffuse potentially bad situations in the past. 

In my post above, I specifically said "well-trained cops" not just "cops".  a well-trained cop could be a peace-keeping ambassador of the city as well---but just empowered to take stronger action if need be. Cops can diffuse things---it doesn't have to end in handcuffs or a shooting.

46 minutes ago, GISguy said:

 

I'll double down and say that more cops is not the answer walking the beat or not. You need people that are capable of creating relationships with and garnering respect of people on the square. Cops are not the answer to that. If you can find community members to adopt the space and know the people, keep eyes on the square (or neighborhood or wherever) stuff like this should be prevented. Maybe I'm kumbaya'ing with Jane Jacobs a bit hard at this point but we need to stop with the more cops will solve it rhetoric.

 

That's what it takes.   Being "nice" or "friendly" does not always cut it, when you are trying to get random people to not do as they wish.   

 

As I said, we tried that on the corner by my street, it didn't work.   Eventually you run into someone for whom IDGAF is a motto, and inevitably they set the tone for others in their circle.

 

We've had similar conversations vis a vis the bus stops on the square, and the behavior surrounding them.   

4 minutes ago, jcw92 said:

In my post above, I specifically said "well-trained cops" not just "cops".  a well-trained cop could be a peace-keeping ambassador of the city as well---but just empowered to take stronger action if need be. Cops can diffuse things---it doesn't have to end in handcuffs or a shooting.

 

The thing about a uniformed police officer is people know he has a job and his job has to get done.   But the law has to support his ability to do so.

6 hours ago, AsDustinFoxWouldSay said:

So like is the city going to keep it's head stuck in the sand when it comes to Public Square safety? You now have multiple buildings on the Square currently or destined to be residential, and sh*t like this keeps happening as well as the loitering and menacing that occurs by panhandlers to pedestrians. I have not met a soul who lives downtown who enjoys walking through Public Square, especially in the evening, to get to the Warehouse District or The Flats. 

I live in one of the residential buildings near PS. My two cents, I've never really felt unsafe, and safety is pretty low down the list in factors holding back my enjoyment of the space. For me personally, the two biggest ones are lack of maintenance, and the constant presence of panhandlers and/or mentally unwell people. I've seen people urinating in PS multiple times (broad daylight) and I've complained multiple times on this site about the poor landscaping.

 

For the record, I still generally like PS. I guess what I'm saying is that violations of law and/or order don't have to rise to the level of safety concerns to have deleterious effects on public space. Poor landscaping (a lack of discernible order) or victimless crimes (public urination) have a significant impact on the enjoyment of a space. Personally I think more well funded, good cops are the answer, but regardless of how you prefer to solve the problem, it is a problem that needs solved. I'd go as far as to say the minor day to day lack of order is a bigger issue than the rare safety incident. But again, just my two cents.

3 minutes ago, Ethan said:

I live in one of the residential buildings near PS. My two cents, I've never really felt unsafe, and safety is pretty low down the list in factors holding back my enjoyment of the space. For me personally, the two biggest ones are lack of maintenance, and the constant presence of panhandlers and/or mentally unwell people. I've seen people urinating in PS multiple times (broad daylight) and I've complained multiple times on this site about the poor landscaping.

 

Are there any public restrooms around? 

Just now, surfohio said:

 

Are there any public restrooms around? 

To my knowledge the nearest public restrooms are in Tower City near the food court. 

13 minutes ago, surfohio said:

 

Are there any public restrooms around? 

 

There's a restroom in the rebol building - like outdoor access, but I've never actually tried to use it during the day. The city also made a point of having a trailer restroom on PS this summer - not sure if that'll come back once the ice rink is around.

A beat cop walking through PS on a regular basis AND a social worker doing the same seems like a good way to diffuse potential problems before they blow up. I think all cities should try something like this in high foot traffic, high visibility areas. 

 

It's like the original intent of Defund the Police (a terrible, terrible branding of a pretty smart idea). 

 

Rather than cops just driving around put some on a beat in areas that have a lot of foot traffic or are high profile places. And if you also have a social worker involved people may get better attention besides being arrested because things got out of hand.

 

Having a social worker or a person trained in conflict resolution working with police seems like an idea worth trying at least. Sorta like how Sherriff Taylor handled things in Mayberry. And before l get excoriated, yes l know Cleveland is not Mayberry but using a different approach is worth trying at least because what we have been doing isn't working out all that well.

I don’t blame SW one bit for resisting public benches in front of their hq.  one bad incident could hinder recruiting, etc.

12 hours ago, Wtd7575 said:

I don’t blame SW one bit for resisting public benches in front of their hq.  one bad incident could hinder recruiting, etc.

 

It wouldn't be good for the comfort level of their existing employees, either.

Damn homeless people causing all this discomfort. WTF is wrong with them?

17 minutes ago, Ineffable_Matt said:

Damn homeless people causing all this discomfort. WTF is wrong with them?

 

Mental illness, in many cases.

30 minutes ago, E Rocc said:

 

Mental illness, in many cases.

Yeah, no crap. Why dont we worry more about that and less about benches?

Benches are an easy topic, we either have them or we don't.

 

Institutionalizing the visibly mentally ill and criminalizing panhandling are much more difficult topics.

 

So we focus on the former.

1 minute ago, TBideon said:

Benches are an easy topic, we either have them or we don't.

 

Institutionalizing the visibly mentally ill and criminalizing panhandling are much more difficult topics.

 

So we focus on the former.

So sad that we are the richest country in the world, spend 1 trillion a year on military, send hundreds of billions overseas and locally in our cities and towns we delete park benches over dealing with people with mental illness.   It makes you wonder who is actually mentally ill....

3 hours ago, Cleburger said:

So sad that we are the richest country in the world, spend 1 trillion a year on military, send hundreds of billions overseas and locally in our cities and towns we delete park benches over dealing with people with mental illness.   It makes you wonder who is actually mentally ill....

 

Not everyone is trained or equipped to deal with them.   Understandably, many who are not seek to limit encounters with them.   But often the aversion is one sided.

 

Plus, mental illness differs from physical illness in one major way:  the vast majority of physically ill people want to get better.  Many mentally ill people actively do not.

Edited November 1, 20222 yr by E Rocc

39 minutes ago, E Rocc said:

 

Not everyone is trained or equipped to deal with them.   Understandably, many who are not seek to limit encounters with them.   But often the aversion is one sided.

 

Plus, mental illness differs from physical illness in one major way:  the vast majority of physically ill people want to get better.  Many mentally ill people actively do not.

 

So I think I'm pretty qualified to speak on this. 

 

I take the 26 to work and walk through Public Square and/or bike to work weather permitting at least 2-3 days a week.

 

I've experienced homeless people on PS, and I've been there as early as 5am on a weekday. I've never once been threatened or felt uneasy. Moreover, compared to most major metros, Cleveland has a relatively small homeless population. As someone who utilizes the sitting spaces at PS to eat lunch pretty frequently, I'm not sure why SW wouldn't want benches, especially when they'll have a full time security staff at the facility. 

 

As for the part of your statement that I bolded, @E Rocc, I really like you (from our interactions on here), and I think you're a good dude... but this is so bat-sh** crazy of a thing to say and complete misses the problems that mentally ill individuals face. Part of "wanting" to get better, is having the mental clarity and capacity to understand the problem, which allows you to identify moments where corrective behavior is needed - physical ailments afford the individual an opportunity to assess situations, where mental episodes do not. I personally know several mentally ill individuals who got better, but it took a REALLY long time for that reason exactly, despite the fact that they wanted nothing more than to be "okay" the whole time. 

 

You're right though, Cleveland would benefit from a more substantial law enforcement presence - and it's not just as simple as waving a wand and saying "social worker" to deal with some individuals. But overall, it's still a safe place to be. 

52 minutes ago, E Rocc said:

 

Not everyone is trained or equipped to deal with them.   Understandably, many who are not seek to limit encounters with them.   But often the aversion is one sided.

 

Plus, mental illness differs from physical illness in one major way:  the vast majority of physically ill people want to get better.  Many mentally ill people actively do not.

All of this enhances my point.  We need to invest more money into the problem, training mental health professionals and providing long term solutions.    If we did, we wouldn't have to worry as much about park benches on city streets.  

5 hours ago, Ineffable_Matt said:

Yeah, no crap. Why dont we worry more about that and less about benches?

Last time I checked, It's not Sherwin's, employees, or in fact places like the RTA, mental illness and homelessness is not their problem to solve. 

34 minutes ago, AsDustinFoxWouldSay said:

Last time I checked, It's not Sherwin's, employees, or in fact places like the RTA, mental illness and homelessness is not their problem to solve. 

Last time I checked, I didn’t say it was. My comment was about mental illness. Sorry I assumed people could connect the dots. BTW, this is the crime and safety thread, not the Sherwin Williams thread.

3 hours ago, YABO713 said:

 

So I think I'm pretty qualified to speak on this. 

 

I take the 26 to work and walk through Public Square and/or bike to work weather permitting at least 2-3 days a week.

 

I've experienced homeless people on PS, and I've been there as early as 5am on a weekday. I've never once been threatened or felt uneasy. Moreover, compared to most major metros, Cleveland has a relatively small homeless population. As someone who utilizes the sitting spaces at PS to eat lunch pretty frequently, I'm not sure why SW wouldn't want benches, especially when they'll have a full time security staff at the facility. 

 

As for the part of your statement that I bolded, @E Rocc, I really like you (from our interactions on here), and I think you're a good dude... but this is so bat-sh** crazy of a thing to say and complete misses the problems that mentally ill individuals face. Part of "wanting" to get better, is having the mental clarity and capacity to understand the problem, which allows you to identify moments where corrective behavior is needed - physical ailments afford the individual an opportunity to assess situations, where mental episodes do not. I personally know several mentally ill individuals who got better, but it took a REALLY long time for that reason exactly, despite the fact that they wanted nothing more than to be "okay" the whole time. 

 

You're right though, Cleveland would benefit from a more substantial law enforcement presence - and it's not just as simple as waving a wand and saying "social worker" to deal with some individuals. But overall, it's still a safe place to be. 

I wanted to type something out substantially longer than @YABO713post, but as usual in doing this on my phone and I'm pretty tired from work. But generally he is pretty spot on in all facets. 

 

I'm a Specialized CIT (Crisis Intervention) officer, so I deal with mental illness alot. Most mentally ill people I deal with are dual diagnosis (bad substance abuse and some sort of mental illness), particularly the vagrant population. There's a reason we created the diversion center, but even that has its limitations as it's a voluntary program and in cases where there is a victim of a minor crime, they have to be okay with it. The combo of substance abuse and mental illness and that populations general experience with anything that smells like a hospital makes it really tough to convince them to go. 

 

Which leads me to that laughable article posted on Cleveland.com about the Diversion center today. I have personally been able to use it four times myself, but a significant amount of the mental population I do deal with that I need to take action on goes to the hospital, and in rare cases, jail (felonious assault for example). I think the program is working just fine within the confines of it's limitations, and I'll be the first to admit officers could be a little better in realizing when they can utilize it, but I don't think that would significantly change the number of intakes. 

 

Also for those who don't think a police presence would make a big difference it does. Another anecdote. The gas stations on Fleet and Broadway and Fleet and East 71st had a bad streak of shootings and car jackings in the last few years. My partner and I convinced the one on East 71st to close at midnight and the other one we hang out at on our free time. We have not had a single issue on our shift at either of those places since we started doing that.  Do those crimes possibly just shift to somewhere else? Sure. But police presence is a definitely effective way to keep people who don't want to interact with us away. 

 

Of course staffing Public Square full time may be unrealistic with current staffing issues. 

 

 

 

Edited November 1, 20222 yr by KFM44107

^ Thanks, as ever, for the insight. I know I’m not the only poster who really appreciates your posts. 
 

Honest question for you;

The Cleveland.com article stated that a couple of officers who were already on the square heard the shots. I assume they were in a squad car, not on foot. I have to imagine that a couple of cops sat in a car are generally less of a deterrent to things than a couple walking the beat? Is that true?

14 hours ago, roman totale XVII said:

^ Thanks, as ever, for the insight. I know I’m not the only poster who really appreciates your posts. 
 

Honest question for you;

The Cleveland.com article stated that a couple of officers who were already on the square heard the shots. I assume they were in a squad car, not on foot. I have to imagine that a couple of cops sat in a car are generally less of a deterrent to things than a couple walking the beat? Is that true?

I cannot speak to the homicide as it's an open investigation. But I will say those officers were not on the square, they were close enough to hear the shots though. 

 

Yes. I think zone cars are far more visible than two officers walking around in many ways. It's way easier to run from two guys on foot than two guys in a car. Cars are also easier to see. Sometimes even police blend into a crowd. 

 

It's almost hilarious to watch that gas station on Fleet and Broadway clear out when we show up. It will go from all the pumps full and people loitering to maybe one car and a few people within less than a minute. 

Edited November 2, 20222 yr by KFM44107

It’s really a very simple scenario. either get control of the square for law abiding citizens and it’s corollary which is perception or don’t expect the likes of SW or other potential employers to roll over for benches and other nonsense.  These random acts of violence are real.  You can’t have it both ways.  The city really needs to put a visible staffed mini station there. And for those who have never had any problem on the square congrats, you are in the minority despite what you generalize.

19 hours ago, Wtd7575 said:

It’s really a very simple scenario. either get control of the square for law abiding citizens and it’s corollary which is perception or don’t expect the likes of SW or other potential employers to roll over for benches and other nonsense.  These random acts of violence are real.  You can’t have it both ways.  The city really needs to put a visible staffed mini station there. And for those who have never had any problem on the square congrats, you are in the minority despite what you generalize.

Agreed. Sure some may not have problems at PS, but a vast majority of us who walk through the square frequently and consistently have either run into something or felt uneasy. I've never been in a victim in PS, but the I've seen what the amount of loitering can lead to such as verbal harassment by panhandlers for not forking over cash and physical altercations between other loiterers and gun violence as you've seen last Sunday. There are many times I've seen people high off their mind making people uncomfortable such as yelling at random people minding their own business. I remember not to long ago some guy was drinking a handle in the middle of Ontario flipping pedestrians off, banging on the casino windows and almost getting hit by cars more times than I could count. I realize this kind of stuff happens in cities and downtowns, but the frequency that it gets up to does not make the area an inviting place to even walk through, even during the middle of the day.  

On 11/1/2022 at 3:55 PM, YABO713 said:

 

So I think I'm pretty qualified to speak on this. 

 

I take the 26 to work and walk through Public Square and/or bike to work weather permitting at least 2-3 days a week.

 

I've experienced homeless people on PS, and I've been there as early as 5am on a weekday. I've never once been threatened or felt uneasy. Moreover, compared to most major metros, Cleveland has a relatively small homeless population. As someone who utilizes the sitting spaces at PS to eat lunch pretty frequently, I'm not sure why SW wouldn't want benches, especially when they'll have a full time security staff at the facility. 

 

As for the part of your statement that I bolded, @E Rocc, I really like you (from our interactions on here), and I think you're a good dude... but this is so bat-sh** crazy of a thing to say and complete misses the problems that mentally ill individuals face. Part of "wanting" to get better, is having the mental clarity and capacity to understand the problem, which allows you to identify moments where corrective behavior is needed - physical ailments afford the individual an opportunity to assess situations, where mental episodes do not. I personally know several mentally ill individuals who got better, but it took a REALLY long time for that reason exactly, despite the fact that they wanted nothing more than to be "okay" the whole time. 

 

You're right though, Cleveland would benefit from a more substantial law enforcement presence - and it's not just as simple as waving a wand and saying "social worker" to deal with some individuals. But overall, it's still a safe place to be. 

 

You played pretty high level college football, IIRC.  You and I are not the people they are going to bother.   Especially with basic avoidance methods like  not making eye contact or otherwise engaging.  That law enforcement presence can provide others that same level of security.  But it can't be there 100% of the time.

 

It's much like the catcalling and other behavior at bus stops on public square, even when a female poster pointed out that it's a problem especially for women, some here (not you) basically blew it off and said it's no big deal.  Some of these things depend on who you are.

 

I've dealt with mental illness on a personal (relationship) level and of course semi-professionally.   A big part of getting better is realizing it's needed.   Their lack of overt desire to get better is of course a function of the illness, but that doesn't make it any less real or any more of a problem.

The guy who got killed on the Square Sunday night is not unknown to Common Pleas Court:

 

Case NumberCase StatusFiling DateJail / Bail Status

CR-21-662573-ACASE CLOSED08/20/2021---

CR-16-608474-ACASE CLOSED08/02/2016---

CR-14-586502-ACASE CLOSED06/14/2014---

CR-12-565600-ACASE CLOSED08/07/2012---

CR-12-562302-ACASE CLOSED05/03/2012---

CR-09-527460-BCASE CLOSED08/08/2009---

CR-09-526672-ACASE CLOSED07/06/2009---

CR-09-524992-ACASE CLOSED05/16/2009---

CR-08-513095-ACASE CLOSED06/23/2008---

CR-08-512089-ACASE CLOSED05/30/2008---

CR-08-509566-CCASE CLOSED04/12/2008---

CR-08-506451-ACASE CLOSED01/10/2008---

CR-06-480654-ACASE CLOSED04/10/2006---

CR-06-478763-ACASE CLOSED03/01/2006---

CR-05-474347-ACASE CLOSED10/21/2005---

CR-05-469598-ACASE CLOSED06/20/2005---

CR-02-420733-ACASE CLOSED02/16/2002---

CR-01-413818-ZACASE CLOSED09/14/2001---

 

 

Horrible. I hope everyone gets out safely! 

 

 

16 minutes ago, KJP said:

Horrible. I hope everyone gets out safely! 

 

 

 

Saw it driving just now, it's a pretty nasty looking fire.  Hope everyone is safe, and the building survives, too!

Ugh. I shop here often including earlier this week. Said hi to the cop working there...

 

 

Fox 8 ran a story today concerning CPD being down 299 officers.  The current academy class only graduated 17 new officers and the next class starting up has only 14.  Last year, @KFM44107mentioned that about 425 were eligible for retirement.  How close to that 425 number actually retired (or will by the end of the year)?  How bad is the attrition as compared the the academy's graduations and transfers into CPD from other departments?  What does the retirement situation look like for 2023?

Edited December 15, 20222 yr by LifeLongClevelander

2 hours ago, LifeLongClevelander said:

Fox 8 ran a story today concerning CPD being down 299 officers.  The current academy class only graduated 17 new officers and the next class starting up has only 14.  Last year, @KFM44107mentioned that about 425 were eligible for retirement.  How close to that 425 number actually retired (or will by the end of the year)?  How bad is the attrition as compared the the academy's graduations and transfers into CPD from other departments?  What does the retirement situation look like for 2023?

From your questions I guess it's safe to assume that Fox 8 did not ask any of them?