Whenever there is a problem like this, the easiest thing for the accused to do is throw out the "oh, everyone is racist, they don't like the black crowd."

Well, if they're the ones shooting 5 people at 3:00am, people don't like that crowd if they're black, white, red, yellow, whatever.  If race is the issue, fine, deal with it.  Like it or not, a certain kind of hip-hop attracts a certain part of the black population.  Thugs. 

There are of course deeper issues on a city-wide level to deal with this behavior, but at a place like this it's as easy as not having under-age hip-hop night in a packed downtown neighborhood.

 

I think the under age is the big issue here.  We need city leaders to enact some legislation that prohibits anyone under the age of 21 in liquor establishments after 10:00 pm.  There is no need to have 18-20 year olds in a bar with people drinking.  We all know, these underage kids, first thing, go into the bathroom and wipe the X of their hands.

what hell is going on?

CLEVELAND -- Police have been extremely busy this morning investigating what appears to be a random series of shootings on the the city's east side.

It all started around 3:45 a.m. Friday.

 

...

 

www.cleveland.com

CLEVELAND HEIGHTS -- Two people are being treated for life threatening injuries this morning after a shooting in Cleveland Heights.

The victims were shot just before 1 a.m. Friday.

 

It happened at a United Dairy Farmers parking lot near Superior Avenue and Lee Road.

 

Police are questioning several people about the incident.

 

Stay with WKYC.com and Channel 3 News Today for more on this developing story.

 

To see Channel 3's Obie Shelton's report, click "Play Video."

 

www.wkyc.com

Where is Frank Jackson for any of this?  Maybe he has weighed in but I have not heard it.  Correct me if I am wrong, but he was no where to be found when that guy shot the 15-year old in self defense, and now the deadliest night in Cleveland in his administration, and not a word?  I have to ask, what the hell is he doing?  I am not saying he has the answer to these problems, but he needs to be out there talking to people and weighing in on these tragedies.

 

Here it is:

 

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

From: Office of the Mayor

FROM THE OFFICE OF THE MAYOR

Andrea V. Taylor, Press Secretary

(216) 664-4171 or (216) 857-7998

Maureen Harper, Chief of Communications

(216)664-4011 or (216)857-3301

 

For Immediate Release

 

July 5, 2007

Mayor Jackson’s Statement on July 4th Tragedies

 

“The events that happened on the Fourth of July are both tragic and unfortunate. My sincerest sympathies go out to the families and communities that were touched by those incidents. Please be assured that law enforcement is fully investigating each case,” said Mayor Jackson.

-30-

 

 

Where is Frank Jackson for any of this?  Maybe he has weighed in but I have not heard it.  Correct me if I am wrong, but he was no where to be found when that guy shot the 15-year old in self defense, and now the deadliest night in Cleveland in his administration, and not a word?  I have to ask, what the hell is he doing?  I am not saying he has the answer to these problems, but he needs to be out there talking to people and weighing in on these tragedies.

 

Maybe he has learned from other Mayors that speaking too soon can be disasterous.  In NYC, Bloomberg or Guiliani would do this all the time.

 

I htink that Frank waits to get facts before speaking, it seems to be the way he has operated all along.  Not rush to judgement and feed into speculation.

where the hell is Mayor Jackson??!?  I've been frustrated with him before for not being vocal against violence, so have expected very little for him.  But these past two days should enrage him to the point that he WANTS to make public comments.

 

I mean serious comments, not his half-assed brief comment he made yesterday.  Hold a press conference, demand civility of its citizens and warn them that the Police will have a zero-tollerance attitude towards all crime, petty and severe. 

where the hell is Mayor Jackson??!?  I've been frustrated with him before for not being vocal against violence, so have expected very little for him.  But these past two days should enrage him to the point that he WANTS to make public comments.

 

I mean serious comments, not his half-assed brief comment he made yesterday.  Hold a press conference, demand civility of its citizens and warn them that the Police will have a zero-tollerance attitude towards all crime, petty and severe. 

 

why would he make a statement without having all the facts.  Let the investigation go on and stay out of it.  If he feeds into the publics want for immediate information - it could come back to bite him in the ass.

Mayor Jackson was like this when he was councilmen and a shooting kill some teens. he said "I didn't wear my morning on my sleeve" during a mayor debate.

 

 

where the hell is Mayor Jackson??!?  I've been frustrated with him before for not being vocal against violence, so have expected very little for him.  But these past two days should enrage him to the point that he WANTS to make public comments.

 

I mean serious comments, not his half-assed brief comment he made yesterday.  Hold a press conference, demand civility of its citizens and warn them that the Police will have a zero-tollerance attitude towards all crime, petty and severe. 

 

why would he make a statement without having all the facts.  Let the investigation go on and stay out of it.  If he feeds into the publics want for immediate information - it could come back to bite him in the ass.

 

He doesn't need to say, "This is what happened...."  He needs to say, "The mayor's office offers condolences to those hurt, and that the Police will investigate and charge those responsible, etc."  I'm just  saying he needs to be out there and letting people know that he cares beyond a two sentence press report.

He doesn't need to say, "This is what happened...."  He needs to say, "The mayor's office offers condolences to those hurt, and that the Police will investigate and charge those responsible, etc."  I'm just  saying he needs to be out there and letting people know that he cares beyond a two sentence press report.

 

Have you seen the press release below?

 

" If he feeds into the publics want for immediate information - it could come back to bite him in the ass."

 

So could his silence and perceived disinterest and lack of concern. Oh that's right, when he was campaigning he made mention of his relatives who have had run-ins with the law - that was in response to his plans for fighting crime. No one is saying he needs to Mike White and breathe down the CPD's neck, but he was elected to be a figurehead and his hands-off approach is not serving him well in these situations. He may not be able to solve the city's crime problems himself, but he sure as sh!t can influence the morale of his bosses - the residents of Cleveland.

I'm not condoning silence by any means.  I'm just saying he shouldn't rush to judgement.  If he shows a stance with the Police commish, and unit commanders AS WELL as the community, he could make a difference.

 

So could his silence and perceived disinterest and lack of concern. Oh that's right, when he was campaigning he made mention of his relatives who have had run-ins with the law - that was in response to his plans for fighting crime.

 

His family has had run ins with the law?

He doesn't need to say, "This is what happened...."  He needs to say, "The mayor's office offers condolences to those hurt, and that the Police will investigate and charge those responsible, etc."  I'm just saying he needs to be out there and letting people know that he cares beyond a two sentence press report.

 

 

Have you seen the press release below?

 

 

 

I hear what you are saying.  I just think it would be better if he came out in person and said that as opposed to issuing a press release.  People want to SEE their leaders. Right or wrong, but we live in a visual world.  I want to SEE "my" Mayor on TV telling me these things.

(I say "my" because I don't live in Cleveland)

I hear what you are saying.  I just think it would be better if he came out in person and said that as opposed to issuing a press release.  People want to SEE their leaders. Right or wrong, but we live in a visual world.  I want to SEE "my" Mayor on TV telling me these things.

(I say "my" because I don't live in Cleveland)

 

Now I get what you all are saying.  I assumed - my bad - that he had been on TV and issued a press release.  but after reading this in combination with what MayDay wrote I now understand.

I hear what you are saying.  I just think it would be better if he came out in person and said that as opposed to issuing a press release.  People want to SEE their leaders. Right or wrong, but we live in a visual world.  I want to SEE "my" Mayor on TV telling me these things.

(I say "my" because I don't live in Cleveland)

 

Now I get what you all are saying.  I assumed - my bad - that he had been on TV and issued a press release.  but after reading this in combination with what MayDay wrote I now understand.

 

And he may have been on TV, if so, i have not seen it.  I do not watch every newscast, so its possible he was on and I missed.

What smithkp said.

His family has had run ins with the law?

 

Several of his children/grandchildren? I'm not sure which or possible both have been involved in various little skirmishes. I'll just catch a little article now and then about it, I'm surprised it never gotten more attention.

who knew?

 

Is Jackson just that low key??

 

I mean, Mike White was a very visible Mayor locally and nationally.  Frank and Jane campbell, just seemed very low key although it appears campbell was busy fixing the internal issues within the city government.

 

Being physically out of the city its hard to gauge the actual pulse of the city as you all can.

I don't expect the Mayor to fix all the problems...but as MayDay said, his lack of vocalizing his disgust for the violence, only makes it appear that "it is what it is" and that we should expect it.  We should not have to expect it and I demand more from our govenemnt. (before people say what have I done, I called and left a message to City Hall this morning - i've voted for people that i felt had the city's interest in mind, and try to be active in different community dialogues)

 

Like my neighbors say, 'different faces, same ole' sh!t'  This silence from City Hall does nothing but make the hard working, civil people of this city just want to leave even quicker. 

^Don't speak for me, a silent mayor doesn't make me want to leave the city.

No, but this bizarre rash of violence could make many of us think twice, and the Mayor should be more verbal about the fact that he is involved in the issue, though as noted he shouldn't leap to public conclusions.  Really this is sad, and a little scary.  It reads like the news from Baghdad, for chrissakes!

"^Don't speak for me, a silent mayor doesn't make me want to leave the city."

 

He said "hard working and civil" people ;-)

"^Don't speak for me, a silent mayor doesn't make me want to leave the city."

 

He said "hard working and civil" people ;-)

 

I knew someone would jump on one of the two adjectives.  Either could apply at times I suppose...

where the hell is Mayor Jackson??!?  I've been frustrated with him before for not being vocal against violence, so have expected very little for him.  But these past two days should enrage him to the point that he WANTS to make public comments.

 

I mean serious comments, not his half-assed brief comment he made yesterday.  Hold a press conference, demand civility of its citizens and warn them that the Police will have a zero-tollerance attitude towards all crime, petty and severe. 

 

He spoke 3x as long on channel 3 telling Cleveland how great it is to add more Ti**ie bars to my neighborhood (making an adult entertainment zone in the flats)

He spoke 3x as long on channel 3 telling Cleveland how great it is to add more Ti**ie bars to my neighborhood (making an adult entertainment zone in the flats)

 

No kidding, priorities don't seem to make sense.  Hopefully things will calm down and people can start to get excited about all the projects happening in Cleveland.

 

Channel 5 had the fireworks live, and Danita Harris and Ted Henry were talking up all the projects and said Cleveland is at the beginning of a new Renaissance...it was nice to hear all the positive public comments about the city...then I woke up and saw the news about what had happened over night.

 

I hope that the news will continue to showcase and help create more excitement about everything happening downtown and throughout the city. 

He spoke 3x as long on channel 3 telling Cleveland how great it is to add more Ti**ie bars to my neighborhood (making an adult entertainment zone in the flats)

 

No kidding, priorities don't seem to make sense.  Hopefully things will calm down and people can start to get excited about all the projects happening in Cleveland.

 

Channel 5 had the fireworks live, and Danita Harris and Ted Henry were talking up all the projects and said Cleveland is at the beginning of a new Renaissance...it was nice to hear all the positive public comments about the city...then I woke up and saw the news about what had happened over night.

 

I hope that the news will continue to showcase and help create more excitement about everything happening downtown and throughout the city. 

 

I had WEWS' fireworks on in the background while I was doing some work.  It was great that Ted and Danita were very positive, but were almost cheesy.  And I thought that the fireworks display, which was broadcast in 480i, looked horrible on HD.  I would've much rather seen them from SkyFox HD (which has some AWESOME shots of the city).

 

I agree on that it's time for an announcement for zero tolerance.  Call it a "police state," if need be.

^ it seem like the one week they did that 3 people died in high speed chases and what not.

WTF.

 

Woman, two others injured by acid thrown on bus

Plain Dealer

Posted by Brie Zeltner July 06, 2007 21:07PM

Categories: Breaking News

 

Brie Zeltner

A woman is in critical condition this evening after she was hit in the face with an acid-type chemical while getting off an RTA bus near E. 131st Street and Miles Avenue, authorities said.

 

The woman was assaulted about 5:30 p.m. and taken to MetroHealth Medical Center, emergency officials said. No further details were available.

 

...

 

www.cleveland.com

something drastic needs to be done. and it really pisses me off when everyone wants to pull out the race card being that a large percentage of the city is african-american and a large percentage of crimes in the city are committed by african americans. what do they expect us to do? keep our mouths shut and let this nonsense continue? i guess they want "whitey" to but out and let blacks keep killing blacks. wtf!!

seriously WTF? Hopefully it will pass.

something drastic needs to be done. and it really pisses me off when everyone wants to pull out the race card being that a large percentage of the city is african-american and a large percentage of crimes in the city are committed by african americans. what do they expect us to do? keep our mouths shut and let this nonsense continue? i guess they want "whitey" to but out and let blacks keep killing blacks. wtf!!

 

I get what you're saying Gavster. I think what gets a lot of blacks angered is when non-blacks say "Its the black culture that's responsible for this." "This" being serious crime. The Cleveland.com board is notorious for this. It implies that all blacks are just out looking for trouble.

 

What it is, is the thug/street culture that is a subset of American culture. A culture that plain and simple doesn't give a fuck. They feel they can do what they want, say what they want without fear of punishment. We all know why this culture exists, the question is how do you put an end to it. I say let the police put the city on lock down for a while Giulianni style.

What's wrong with people these days? 

 

I don't want to divulge into the race discussion.  But if it is the black culture that's the problem, how is it fixed? 

The way I see it, we can't get rid of thugs. Their nature is too ingrained and supported by their peers. Our entire culture glorifies this stuff. I don't think this is anything new, really -- in Little Italy they have mafia shirts that say "Neighborhood Watch" with a bunch of thugs picture below -- what they don't say is, if you don't do what you're told or pay what they say they're owed, those friendly neighbors are going to come over and slam your head on a table... Or at least they used to...

 

The only way to keep everyone else safe is to make it too hard for these kinds of people, no matter who they are or where they come from, to exist in lawful society. In the neighborhoods, this is obviously very hard because of all the issues we've discussed or read about: Fear of thug backlash, distrust of police, etc. However, when these guys step foot into the WHD, they should be at a severe disadvantage because that's not where they live. Although the WHD has a big resident population on party nights, I bet they are far outnumbered by visitors, which means those streets should be the POLICE'S streets.

 

I'm no security expert, but it seems like clubs should be using those hand-held metal detectors they wave over you when you go to a big concert so if you have a weapon, you can't get into the club at all. But, of course, there's also that percentage of unpredictability that you can't control. It'd probably help if they didn't let kids get into bars.

 

 

" In the neighborhoods, this is obviously very hard... However, when these guys step foot into the WHD"

 

1. The Warehouse District *is* a neighborhood.

2. No idea about the perp, but the victims in the shooting outside of Spy were from Twinsburg and Warrensville Heights.

 

 

Another issue at hand is the fact that these thugs clearly think they can shoot someone in the middle of the street and get away with it. Have huge numbers of police scan and patrol the warehouse district and other party centers. I'm willing to bet someone won't shoot another person if the cops are standing right behind them. The metal detectors are good to keep the violence out of the club, but if someone gets into an altercation in the club, leaves or gets kicked out, goes to his car and gets his gun and waits for his victim to come out, the metal detectors won't help, but the aforementioned increased police presence will.

I think it is unfortunate there were 100 witnesses and no one can come up with an ID of this person?  We also don't know that the victims were "thugs"..who knows maybe their parents were telling them they should not go into Cleveland b/c of the thugs and problem clubs like this. I am guessing their families may have fled to exurbs like Twinsburg years ago.  Just food for thought. As a side note of discussion that may be worthy of conversation on another thread, I think it is harder to convince African Americans professionals to live in the city than other groups. Maybe if there was more  financial and emotional investment (my new term) in the city there would be more of an uproar about the problem places from the AA community.

I don't think anyone referred to the victims as thugs.

 

True if there were more investment people would be more inclined to protect that investment and try and keep neighborhoods up. Just curious Peabody why do think its harder to convince Buppys to move into the city?

^ you are right I should not have put thugs in quotes ...I guess it was kind of implied they may have been trouble makers..and maybe they were but we do not know. I think the "Buppys" (lol!) would need to answer the other question. Just from folks I know, there seems to be  a stigma to living in the city...but this exists for many whites from the area too. Have professional African Americans been marketed too? Maybe to some degree in the Hough area, otherwise, I am guessing not-which is unfortunate. 

^ you are right I should not have put thugs in quotes ...I guess it was kind of implied they may have been trouble makers..and maybe they were but we do not know. I think the "Buppys" (lol!) would need to answer the other question. Just from folks I know, there seems to be  a stigma to living in the city...but this exists for many whites from the area too. Have professional African Americans been marketed too? Maybe to some degree in the Hough area, otherwise, I am guessing not-which is unfortunate. 

 

There is a stigma amongst blacks living in the city. I had cousins who I had just met, my brother asked where they lived and she was ashamed to say Collinwood!! I think if a hip gentrified neighborhood in a black community in Cleveland (Hough maybe?) were created then the stigma would gradually disappear. Personally I'd love to see Hough, Fairfax or Glenville become the center to the regions Buppy population. I use those neighborhoods because they are closest to the micro boom goin on around Unicircle and the Clinic.

 

I don't think there has been a huge effort to attract the black professionals and of course Cleveland doesn't YET have a perception to being open to blacks like Atlanta or Charlotte. Blacks are moving to the Greater Cleveland region though, in increasing numbers.

Man, it's turning into Mad Max up in this joint! I ride my bike by this McDonald's a lot....

 

Man shot at Lakewood McDonald's restaurant

The Plain Dealer

Posted by Brian Albrecht July 07, 2007 13:57PM

Categories: Breaking News, Crime

 

Lakewood -- A worker at the McDonald's on Sloane Avenue in Lakewood was shot in the head and killed Saturday morning by a man who fled the restaurant and later surrendered after a brief standoff, according to police.

 

Capt. Ed Hassing said Robert Joslin, 26, of Lakewood, was slain in an apparent dispute by Nathaniel Williams Jr., 22, of Cleveland, who has a record for domestic violence. The two knew each other, police said.

 

...

 

www.cleveland.com

Au contrare, folks.  The "Buppy" population is very heavily marketed to by a large portion of our urban redevelopers.  They are the target market for redevelopment throughout the Eastside (for most of our Eastside redevelopments they are the ONLY market interested) and a large supporting market for redevelopment on the Westside and Downtown.  The problem is that there aren't enough Buppies interested in urban living to go around for the current level of development, let alone to significantly revitalize the whole damned Eastside.  We won't revitalize our city by marketing to a slice of a minority population.  It's cutting the market pie too small.  We have to find a way to make city living attractive to middle class people of all races.

 

Are you sure that we are seeing a net migration increase in African-Americans, mov2ohio?  Last I heard, blacks, especially educated professionals, were leaving in droves for Atlanta, DC, or other areas.  I think the evidence given may have been anecdotal, though.

About the Warehouse District Shooting from another board:

Either what way, it's been proven 2 times over now that 4 of the people involved were NOT at Spy that night. The night was NOT an 18+ night for guys, so how a 17, 19, and 20 year old came out of spy bar baffles me. On top of that, it was proven that the cops took 25+ minutes after the initial phone call about the argument to get there. One guy stated that he called, and dispatch said cars were already on their way, yet 10 minutes later the cops were still not there when he heard the gun shots, then approx 10-15 minutes later, they finally showed up. After talking to the president of the CPPA, we have also learned that not a single officer was assigned to the warehouse district for patrol. Why would you NOT put any officers in the warehouse district on July 4th, that's bleep retarded.

____________________________

So apparently nobody in Cleveland decided to staff the WD with police on July 3rd night, not one. That is really dumb. Someone should lose their job.

^What other board, and exactly how do we know what's accurate? Because someone posted it?

^What other board, and exactly how do we know what's accurate? Because someone posted it?

 

It may or may not be accurate, but we can certainly find out if no police officers were assigned duty to the WD the night of July 3rd. If it is true, then fingers need to be pointed.

I hate to nit pick, but I thought UrbanOhio was a place where the community would share facts, not spread speculation or rumors and that cleveland.com style posts would not be allowed.

 

I think Grasscat or CDM in a previous thread stated that post without a link to a source, similar to Person's post, would not be tolerated here on UrbanOhio and I think the post, not the person (ooohh...no pun intended, Person  :-D ) are a disservice to all that visit UrbanOhio.

 

Is it possible to edit the post?  As a person (again, no pun intended) who lives away from Cleveland I come here to UrbanOhio to get correct, up-to-date and accurate information.  The majority of the above post doesn't not protect the integrity of UrbanOhio.

It may or may not be accurate, but we can certainly find out if no police officers were assigned duty to the WD the night of July 3rd. If it is true, then fingers need to be pointed.

 

Yes right at the moron who pulled the trigger.

 

Is the future of the Warehouse District jeopardized by July 4th homicide?

 

Let's hope not. I also think the residentail componet (unlike the flats eastbank) will be enough to keep the WD sustainable for years to come. Kudos to channel 3 for not reporting a doom and gloom scenario the future of the WD.

 

http://www.wkyc.com/video/player.aspx?aid=38457&bw=

From the wkyc, feed.  I loved how the mother said, "the city is alive....".  Cleveland needs more people like that to be on tape.  Also, for wkyc for stating, "people come to the city for the things they can't get at home (in the burbs).

 

When I was there for the NBA Finals, it was unreal, but it showed what great potential Cleveland - a real city - has.  Cleveland maybe an old girl, but she's a classy lady, who just needs a update.

Au contrare, folks.  The "Buppy" population is very heavily marketed to by a large portion of our urban redevelopers.  They are the target market for redevelopment throughout the Eastside (for most of our Eastside redevelopments they are the ONLY market interested) and a large supporting market for redevelopment on the Westside and Downtown.  The problem is that there aren't enough Buppies interested in urban living to go around for the current level of development, let alone to significantly revitalize the whole damned Eastside.  We won't revitalize our city by marketing to a slice of a minority population.  It's cutting the market pie too small.  We have to find a way to make city living attractive to middle class people of all races.

 

Are you sure that we are seeing a net migration increase in African-Americans, mov2ohio?  Last I heard, blacks, especially educated professionals, were leaving in droves for Atlanta, DC, or other areas.  I think the evidence given may have been anecdotal, though.

 

This is the link to the info I based my post on, the data is based on the decennial census, so the data is only up to date to 2000. The growth rate between '90 and 2000 for Afams was 12.8%

 

http://diversitydata.sph.harvard.edu/profiles.jsp?ma=1680

 

 

I agree with you about marketing urban living to all yuppys, but you can also have certain 'hoods that have a concentration of stores and such or a large number of a certain ethnicity like Harlem, San Francisco's China town, Little Italy, or Slavic Village. Mixed neighborhoods still, but with a certain flair that makes them attractive to (insert ethnicity here).

It may or may not be accurate, but we can certainly find out if no police officers were assigned duty to the WD the night of July 3rd. If it is true, then fingers need to be pointed.

 

Wow, that is exactly what the people from the Spy bar said. 

I am going to point my fingers at the spy bar.  I have worked for bars for years, and it is the responsibility of the bar to make sure its patrons dispurse quietly once the bar closes.  If they are unable, then they are a nuisance.

I have worked for bars for years, and it is the responsibility of the bar to make sure its patrons dispurse quietly once the bar closes.  If they are unable, then they are a nuisance.

 

Good point. At the large clubs on Miami Beach, once the doors are locked, the bouncers make sure that no one loiters out front. For the Spy Bar to say that their patrons are the police's responsibility once the club closes is just unacceptable.