September 12, 20231 yr How can anyone say with a straight face that suburban cops are overpaid? Maple Heights and East Cleveland cops start in the late $30s, Parma, Lakewood and Shaker Heights cops in the early $40s, Westlake mid $40s, Beachwood early $50s. Obviously they make more money the longer they're there - as EVERYONE should in any role - and they have pretty solid benefits - again, as EVERYONE should - but to say they're overpaid is silly. Ideally the higher the compensation, the better quality candidates we'd get. Guarantee the inverse is true.
September 12, 20231 yr 3 hours ago, JB said: Now you’re moving goal posts. I literally said they need to raise their wages to help compete with suburbs. But I also can’t think suburb cops are overpaid? The suburbs are paying what they feel is necessary to attract the officers they want.
October 11, 20231 yr Cleveland police see 45% increase in applicants, city says https://www.cleveland.com/news/2023/10/cleveland-police-sees-45-increase-in-applicants-city-says.html
October 13, 20231 yr The Cleveland Police Union and the Mayor have come to an agreement to move to 12-hour shifts and raise wages of veteran officers -- those with a minimum of 5 years of experience and are supervisors -- will receive a ~14% raise. Lower ranking officers will see a 2.5% raise. This is on top of the 11% 3-year raise negotiated last year. "In other words, since 2022, rank-and-file officer salaries will have moved from the range of $55,000-$68,000 to $63,000-$84,000. Current top salaries rank in the middle of the pack statewide, but with the new increases, top Cleveland wages will be higher than those at three-quarters of Ohio’s police departments, Abonamah said. Though wages remain higher in Columbus, Cincinnati and some Northeast Ohio suburbs, the new top figures put Cleveland ahead of the Cuyahoga County Sheriff’s Department, Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority police, Akron police and others, he said. ... To pay for the higher wages, Abonamah said the city will draw from money currently allocated for overtime, which Deputy Chief Daniel Fay on Wednesday said had reached $20 million this year. Bibb will also seek further reductions in the budgeted – not actual – size of the police force, so money isn’t tied up unnecessarily in unfilled positions, and can instead go into the pockets of existing officers, Abonamah said." https://www.cleveland.com/metro/2023/10/cleveland-police-unions-agree-to-12-hour-shifts-major-pay-raise-for-veteran-officers.html
October 13, 20231 yr 24 minutes ago, Luke_S said: The Cleveland Police Union and the Mayor have come to an agreement to move to 12-hour shifts and raise wages of veteran officers -- those with a minimum of 5 years of experience and are supervisors -- will receive a ~14% raise. Lower ranking officers will see a 2.5% raise. This is on top of the 11% 3-year raise negotiated last year. "In other words, since 2022, rank-and-file officer salaries will have moved from the range of $55,000-$68,000 to $63,000-$84,000. Current top salaries rank in the middle of the pack statewide, but with the new increases, top Cleveland wages will be higher than those at three-quarters of Ohio’s police departments, Abonamah said. Though wages remain higher in Columbus, Cincinnati and some Northeast Ohio suburbs, the new top figures put Cleveland ahead of the Cuyahoga County Sheriff’s Department, Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority police, Akron police and others, he said. ... To pay for the higher wages, Abonamah said the city will draw from money currently allocated for overtime, which Deputy Chief Daniel Fay on Wednesday said had reached $20 million this year. Bibb will also seek further reductions in the budgeted – not actual – size of the police force, so money isn’t tied up unnecessarily in unfilled positions, and can instead go into the pockets of existing officers, Abonamah said." https://www.cleveland.com/metro/2023/10/cleveland-police-unions-agree-to-12-hour-shifts-major-pay-raise-for-veteran-officers.html I like having more coverage, but I have concerns about shift length. I know in manufacturing, after 10 hours or so people can become less attentive, leading to decreased productivity and an increased risk of accidents.
October 13, 20231 yr 2 minutes ago, E Rocc said: I like having more coverage, but I have concerns about shift length. I know in manufacturing, after 10 hours or so people can become less attentive, leading to decreased productivity and an increased risk of accidents. It seems they've considered that concern and believe this will lead to an overall reduction in hours with fewer officers picking up overtime and working 12+ hour shifts (article mentions officers working 16 hour shifts multiple times a week). It sounds like they are planning for a 3 on, 3 off schedule and suggest that this would also give officers scheduled days off that they can actually plan on and around so they can hopefully have a little more balance. Lastly, it sound like they hope they can draw back the standard length of shifts in the future. Hopefully this stabilizes the existing staffing of CPD so the city can focus on recruitment and be more proactive than reactive.
October 13, 20231 yr 3 hours ago, Luke_S said: It seems they've considered that concern and believe this will lead to an overall reduction in hours with fewer officers picking up overtime and working 12+ hour shifts (article mentions officers working 16 hour shifts multiple times a week). It sounds like they are planning for a 3 on, 3 off schedule and suggest that this would also give officers scheduled days off that they can actually plan on and around so they can hopefully have a little more balance. Lastly, it sound like they hope they can draw back the standard length of shifts in the future. Hopefully this stabilizes the existing staffing of CPD so the city can focus on recruitment and be more proactive than reactive. Looks like the summer incentives are kicking in as well. This is something that many departments across the nation are having to do to fill ranks with new officers. https://wtam.iheart.com/content/2023-10-12-police-applications-up-45-in-city-of-cleveland/
October 18, 20231 yr So we can't blame population density on murders here. Can we blame sprawl that leaves people of color behind? Composite Cleveland Murder. Source: @Cleveland_PL from April, 1974 @ClevelandMag "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
October 18, 20231 yr 12 hours ago, KJP said: So we can't blame population density on murders here. Can we blame sprawl that leaves people of color behind? Composite Cleveland Murder. Source: @Cleveland_PL from April, 1974 @ClevelandMag No, you really can’t. Not a major increase in the actual numbers, as opposed to just the per capita rate. Correlation is not causation, but it’s pretty easy to speculate that the increasing rate contributed to the population loss. The opposite? No. A claim that an increasing minority percentage led to more murders? No. I know you didn’t mean to claim or imply that, but that would be pretty toxic.
October 19, 20231 yr 23 hours ago, KJP said: So we can't blame population density on murders here. Can we blame sprawl that leaves people of color behind? Composite Cleveland Murder. Source: @Cleveland_PL from April, 1974 @ClevelandMag I want to know more about this murder committed with a diaper. I assume the cause of death was asphyxiation, not blunt trauma.
October 19, 20231 yr 14 hours ago, X said: I want to know more about this murder committed with a diaper. I assume the cause of death was asphyxiation, not blunt trauma. Probably assfixiation, yes.
November 4, 20231 yr Just announced! The City of Cleveland is receiving a $3.75 million grant from the DOJ to hire 30 new police officers. This grant, when coupled with our new police recruitment strategy will go a long way to increasing staffing and creating a safer city. https://www.wkyc.com/article/news/local/cleveland/cleveland-receives-nearly-4m-justice-department-hire-30-new-police-officers/95-289176dd-2b74-4d37-80bd-266ea2b180b2 "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 26, 20231 yr Where the hell was the thin blue line at? Are we going to have another video surface that shows a uniformed officer dip into jack casino this time?
November 26, 20231 yr Cleveland teens again shooting each other in Public Square, in yet another large event designated for families. Downtown's reputation as a dangerous hood continues to grow with no effort to curtail this BS by the city. Now I remember why the E185th festival is no longer a thing. This city couldn't control the inevitable gang shootings at that event, now they can't control these unruly kids. Baffling how there is no curfew for unattended teens in this type of event. Just pathetic. One moment you have some pride seeing the amount of people downtown and retail open late because of the crowds. The next minute this happens and you realize why droves of people and businesses left downtown over the last half century. Edited November 26, 20231 yr by AsDustinFoxWouldSay
November 26, 20231 yr I can't imagine the scarcity of people that will attend this event next year if they try it again.
November 26, 20231 yr "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 26, 20231 yr Something like this happened in DC near the zoo during their winter lights festival a few years ago. You used to be able to walk right in with hordes of other people but now you need a free ticket and they do a security check. Despite the comment above, I don’t know of any place in America that has found a full-proof way to shield people from gun violence (that the Supreme Court will accept). I personally have the same worry about gun violence at a festival like this in downtown Cleveland or downtown Medina.
November 26, 20231 yr 7 hours ago, AsDustinFoxWouldSay said: I can't imagine the scarcity of people that will attend this event next year if they try it again. Fortunately, no one was there this year! You’ve made it clear NO ONE comes to or lives in cities anymore. it was 25 kids and a couple squirrels
December 8, 20231 yr $800,000 for a new "bespoke" police boat. https://signalcleveland.org/a-new-bespoke-boat-for-cleveland-police/ Remember: It's the Year of the Snake
December 8, 20231 yr 5 hours ago, Dougal said: $800,000 for a new "bespoke" police boat. https://signalcleveland.org/a-new-bespoke-boat-for-cleveland-police/ I got to watch the fireboat in action from the Goodtime II(?) during the late 70s. Very big fire in a building along the river. I never saw anything in the news so it may have been practice, but putting it out would have been far more difficult without the boats.
January 15, 20241 yr Apparently CPD is allowed to chase again, there was a pretty high speed chase with just two units heading west on Lakeshore about 5am. It's possible it was Euclid (dark SUVs, dark outside) but it appeared at a glance to be Cleveland.
January 15, 20241 yr 3 hours ago, E Rocc said: Apparently CPD is allowed to chase again, there was a pretty high speed chase with just two units heading west on Lakeshore about 5am. It's possible it was Euclid (dark SUVs, dark outside) but it appeared at a glance to be Cleveland. Another reason these departments all need to get rid of their blacked-out SUVs and go to traditional coloring (blue/white, black/white etc). You can't tell who is who any more.
January 15, 20241 yr On 12/8/2023 at 6:16 AM, E Rocc said: I got to watch the fireboat in action from the Goodtime II(?) during the late 70s. Very big fire in a building along the river. I never saw anything in the news so it may have been practice, but putting it out would have been far more difficult without the boats. A NYFD firefighter told me that NYC keeps five fireboats in commission for waterfront fires. Everybody loves the theory; but in practice, he says, the boats never get to the scene in time to be of much use. Distances may create different outcomes in Cleveland; I don't know. Remember: It's the Year of the Snake
January 15, 20241 yr Just now, Dougal said: A NYFD firefighter told me that NYC keeps five fireboats in commission for waterfront fires. Everybody loves the theory; but in practice, he says, the boats never get to the scene in time to be of much use. Distances may create different outcomes in Cleveland; I don't know. In Cleveland they'd probably have to beg Norfolk Southern to open the bridge to get to any lakefront scene.
March 29, 20241 yr Pentacostal Church of God at Miles Park Ave and East 91st. Screenshot from WOIO-19 from yesterday's mid-day fire. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
April 12, 20241 yr 4 hours ago, E Rocc said: We had a regular female poster address this a few years before, and a lot of posters pretty much dismissed her concerns. Yeah, I think a lot of men don't realize just how much gender factors into safety calculations and just how different women's experiences can be in this regard. With that in mind, here's a hot take I saw a while ago on Twitter that I think you will appreciate, not sure about everyone else, but that's what hot takes are for.
April 12, 20241 yr I had a pretty uncomfortable experience on the rapid in the fall. I’m not a small guy, but it felt like a situation where I might feel obligated to intervene when a guy a bit larger than me was getting rough with a woman. She left safely, but the fact is when there isn’t any law enforcement or anyone of authority in the building, it’s not difficult to imagine how uncomfortable a woman might be. I will again, but I haven’t ridden since personally.
April 12, 20241 yr People should lay off Bibb. He's just trying to do the best he can while figuring everything out. He's still learning everything. He hired his college roommate cause he knew him and thought he could do the job and maybe also because the guy needed a job after violating the civil rights of an elderly black couple when he was a cop in DC. Maybe he got fired for that, don't know. Cleveland safety advisor under fire from NAACP was Mayor Bibb's college roommate https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/local-news/investigations/cleveland-defends-decision-to-hire-former-d-c-cop-accused-of-violating-elderly-black-couples-civil-rights
April 13, 20241 yr On 4/11/2024 at 10:03 PM, Ethan said: Yeah, I think a lot of men don't realize just how much gender factors into safety calculations and just how different women's experiences can be in this regard. With that in mind, here's a hot take I saw a while ago on Twitter that I think you will appreciate, not sure about everyone else, but that's what hot takes are for. Lots of things caused surbanization, somewhere in the sprawl forum is a long list I put together. Crime is definitely involved though.
April 13, 20241 yr On 4/12/2024 at 1:15 AM, Henke said: I had a pretty uncomfortable experience on the rapid in the fall. I’m not a small guy, but it felt like a situation where I might feel obligated to intervene when a guy a bit larger than me was getting rough with a woman. She left safely, but the fact is when there isn’t any law enforcement or anyone of authority in the building, it’s not difficult to imagine how uncomfortable a woman might be. I will again, but I haven’t ridden since personally. I'm fortunate to be bigger than most, appear at first glance to be in better shape than I probably am, and have plenty of experience being what I call passively intimidating. Still, there's places and situations I avoid. As you say, it's much worse for women, and also for the elderly, disabled, and even smaller men.
April 14, 20241 yr "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 8, 20241 yr Too bad we don't have a national crime thread "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 9, 20241 yr On 5/8/2024 at 7:02 AM, KJP said: Too bad we don't have a national crime thread Feel free to start one.
May 12, 20241 yr BIbb's former roommate that he hired for $120k resigned. Its great that all the pressure fell on the roommate and didn't really seem to touch Bibb himself! Hopefully if he has other friends, family, roommates that he hired, they keep a low profile. https://signalcleveland.org/embattled-cleveland-safety-advisor-phillip-mchugh-resigns-firing-back-at-city-council-and-media/
May 21, 20241 yr Cleveland looks to neighborhood groups for violence interruption as residents beg for help Ideastream Public Media | By Abbey Marshall Published May 21, 2024 Quote As part of ongoing efforts to fund violence prevention efforts, Cleveland City Council approved $300,000 total to three groups to deploy street violence interrupters to "hot spots" across the city. ... The plan is for the groups to work to engage people, particularly youth, and provide resources, such as drug and alcohol assistance resources, employment opportunities and more. The contracts are for one year with the option to renew. This is the latest in the city working with on-the-ground violence interrupters. Last year, Mayor Justin Bibb launched a$10 million Neighborhood Safety Fund to curb violence across the city. https://www.ideastream.org/government-politics/2024-05-21/cleveland-looks-to-neighborhood-groups-for-violence-interruption-as-residents-beg-for-help And, on a related note; A new safety center opens in downtown Cleveland even as the crime rate drops KIM PALMER May 17, 2024 Quote Downtown Cleveland Improvement Corp. (DCIC), an offshoot of Downtown Cleveland, announced it has a new Clean and Safe ambassador-deployment station on the northeast side of the city’s central business district. The group’s Perk Station — located by its namesake park on the corner of Chester and East 12th in refurbished commercial space provided by CRM Co. — allows 68 uniformed, unarmed neighborhood ambassadors quicker response times when dealing with incidents or requests for assistance in the area. ... The move to widen the DCIC security presence comes as the city of Cleveland reports total crime in the city is down 6.7% this year compared with spring 2023. Compared with the period between March 19 through May 10 of last year, homicides are down by 46.2%, burglaries are down by 18.5% and robberies are down by 6%. https://www.crainscleveland.com/politics-policy/downtown-cleveland-group-activates-new-perk-park-safety-center
May 21, 20241 yr 31 minutes ago, Luke_S said: Cleveland looks to neighborhood groups for violence interruption as residents beg for help Ideastream Public Media | By Abbey Marshall Published May 21, 2024 https://www.ideastream.org/government-politics/2024-05-21/cleveland-looks-to-neighborhood-groups-for-violence-interruption-as-residents-beg-for-help And, on a related note; A new safety center opens in downtown Cleveland even as the crime rate drops KIM PALMER May 17, 2024 https://www.crainscleveland.com/politics-policy/downtown-cleveland-group-activates-new-perk-park-safety-center Classic "look and feel like we are doing something without actually doing anything effective" stuff. I doubt those planning this kind of stuff have ever dealt with someone who didn't want to do what they needed them to do, let alone active gang members or other criminals.
May 21, 20241 yr 7 minutes ago, E Rocc said: Classic "look and feel like we are doing something without actually doing anything effective" stuff. I doubt those planning this kind of stuff have ever dealt with someone who didn't want to do what they needed them to do, let alone active gang members or other criminals. Are you sure that this is just performative or are you just reacting based on your priors? Because violence interruption programs have shown to be effective at reducing violent crime. Also, its not like this is the only initiative the city has taken to reduce crime, its one piece of a systematic effort to address crime.
May 21, 20241 yr 14 minutes ago, Luke_S said: Are you sure that this is just performative or are you just reacting based on your priors? Because violence interruption programs have shown to be effective at reducing violent crime. Also, its not like this is the only initiative the city has taken to reduce crime, its one piece of a systematic effort to address crime. Skepticism, which I consider very justified. It sounds exactly like performative measures in the past. It's pretty much what I would expect from Bibb, which is why I didn't support him for mayor (FTR I didn't support Kelley either). It's taking up resources that could be used for more effective programs.
May 21, 20241 yr 6 hours ago, E Rocc said: Skepticism, which I consider very justified. It sounds exactly like performative measures in the past. It's pretty much what I would expect from Bibb, which is why I didn't support him for mayor (FTR I didn't support Kelley either). It's taking up resources that could be used for more effective programs. such as ...?
May 22, 20241 yr 16 hours ago, mrnyc said: such as ...? Sworn and armed officers. Perhaps more robust diversionary programs. But mainly cops.
May 22, 20241 yr 45 minutes ago, E Rocc said: Sworn and armed officers. Perhaps more robust diversionary programs. But mainly cops. more cops doesnt do anything to prevent crime, particularly “sworn and armed officers,” which is an odd thing to empthasize as most crime is white collar and misdemeanors. ask yourself is it most important to arrest more poor people for street crime or is it more important to try to prevent crime and recidivism? i would strongly suggest more $ into summer school, rec programs, paid city summer youth work programs and young adult job training is cheaper and would go further for preventing crime — the crossbar hotel is hella expensive to run.
May 22, 20241 yr Those programs may have some impact over time, but what do we do about violent thugs in real time during or after an incident? America absurdly tolerates violent crime, and has pretty much abandonned mitigating measures due to inevitable racial implications, but beat cops definitely make an impact on crime prevention. Edited May 22, 20241 yr by TBideon
May 26, 20241 yr This club has been nothing but trouble CLE ~ Shooting - Medusa - 1437 St Clair - about 0306am - shootout in the club, 4 people shot. 1 DOA, 1 Critical, 1 Serious, 1 Minor injury. 2 taken to Metro Trauma. Wound to head. Mult vehicles struck. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 26, 20241 yr And sure you may say this stuff happens in every other city. My question is why are we allowing this to even be acceptable? With so many businesses fleeing downtown for the burbs or becoming remote work, with the emphasis now being turning downtown into a residential neighborhood, who in their right mind would want to live right next to this type of behavior on a more often than not basis? I lived downtown 2018-2020. Yea there was typical city stuff. But I never recall the frequency of this type of crap within an entire night. Not to mention a bar tender being shot a corner alley at 2 PM? Because 2 bums are getting into an argument on the corner of E4 and Euclid? WHERE ARE THE POLICE
May 27, 20241 yr On 5/22/2024 at 12:54 PM, TBideon said: Those programs may have some impact over time, but what do we do about violent thugs in real time during or after an incident? America absurdly tolerates violent crime, and has pretty much abandonned mitigating measures due to inevitable racial implications, but beat cops definitely make an impact on crime prevention. the club shooting incident posted just below your comment is a perfect example of what i’m talking about. you are of course right it would be felt over time, but imagine if there were organized crackdowns on bad bars by city and state liquor agencies, plus more job training, drug rehab, block parties, movies, daybreaker morning dj dance parties, bowling, rec centers, regular family activities and events to encourage keeping families together, etc., etc. — it would discourage young men hanging out in bars. even one or two not there that chaotic night might have made all the difference. as for the shootout itself, what exactly were more cops going to do here? its all over when they get there. it becomes a job for the emt’s, dt’s and social workers after that. of course we need police to catch and lock up dangerous perps if they can, but the point is so much more could be done to lower major crime events like that for so much less $$$ than just hiring a bunch more regular beat cops.
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