July 8, 200717 yr So the old saying, "You don't have to go home, but you can't stay here" is hog wash? I disagree. I too worked at many bars in the city (mostly in the flats). Once we closed our doors the customers were not our responsibility. Yes, the door people and bouncers made sure nobody lingered near the door, but that was it. In a place like the WHD, you have so many bars emptying out at once, there is need for far more then bouncers to control the crowds. The CPD has, in the past, closed the street off to traffic when they was any indication that crowds would be larger then usual. This at least prevented any unnecessary human/vehicular contact.
July 8, 200717 yr In a place like the WHD, you have so many bars emptying out at once, there is need for far more then bouncers to control the crowds. Of course there is. I don't think anyone is suggesting that the bouncers are responsible. Clubs do have a responsibly however, as well as law enforcement, to make sure that their patrons that just exited are not loitering around the sidewalk directly in front of the club. As I said before the blame ultimately lies with the person who pulled the trigger.
July 8, 200717 yr Where are the police??? _______________________________________________ Two children shot and wounded in Cleveland Posted by Amanda Garrett July 07, 2007 21:17PM Categories: Breaking News Brynne Shaw Juliet Craig is consoled as she deals with the news that two of her grandchildren were shot on E. 173rd St. in Cleveland.Two young boys, one 6 and another 2, were shot and wounded this evening when they were caught in a shooting along E. 173rd outside Kerruish Park in Cleveland's Lee-Miles neighborhood. ... Dan X. McGraw and Gayle Powell contributed to this report http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2007/07/two_children_shot_and_wounded.html
July 9, 200717 yr ^ somebody that doesn't know how to handle a weapon and just shoots randomly....sad in any capacity
July 9, 200717 yr Police hunt two for shooting 2-year-old and 6-year-old Posted by Tom Breckenridge July 08, 2007 17:47PM Categories: Breaking News, Crime Darnelle HudsonScores of Cleveland police officers working round the clock were closing in on two suspects in the East 173rd Street dispute that left a 1- and 6-year-old with gunshot wounds. Deeply angered by the Saturday shooting, Mayor Frank Jackson announced Sunday afternoon that police were closing in on two men: Darnelle Hudson, 24, and Deshaun E. Martin, 18. Detectives identified the two men as responsible for the shootings near Kerruish Park ... http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2007/07/warrants_issued_for_2_in_shoot.html
July 9, 200717 yr CLEVELAND -- One man has been arrested in connection to a shooting where a one-year-old and six-year-old were shot. According to police, 18-year-old Deshaun D. Martin was arrested Sunday night, before 8:00 p.m. 24-year-old Darnelle Hudson is still on loose. There is a warrant out for his arrest. ... http://www.wkyc.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=70786
July 9, 200717 yr A lot of Lee-Miles is quiet and tidy, almost suburban . most of the neighborhood does not seem unsafe at all...Hopefully they will set the support they need.
July 10, 200717 yr My grandparents, lived there. Its very surburan-ish. There are large portions of that neighborhood that are very very nice. That park is a great community asset. I can remember going there as a child it was a lot of fun. We'd often go to the park, then over to the drive in. memories....... I really hope they catch and fry these creeps!
July 10, 200717 yr Both surrendered Sunday night. Only the guy driving the car, who wasn't involved in the actual shooting is still out there.
July 10, 200717 yr So the old saying, "You don't have to go home, but you can't stay here" is hog wash? I disagree. I too worked at many bars in the city (mostly in the flats). Once we closed our doors the customers were not our responsibility. Yes, the door people and bouncers made sure nobody lingered near the door, but that was it. In a place like the WHD, you have so many bars emptying out at once, there is need for far more then bouncers to control the crowds. The CPD has, in the past, closed the street off to traffic when they was any indication that crowds would be larger then usual. This at least prevented any unnecessary human/vehicular contact. Yep. Our main priority is always going to be getting people out of the building so we can lock up and close down. Indeed, sometimes people will still be in the parking lot deciding who's driving, where they are going next, etc. The cops really don't care unless they are loud or fighting. They do care if people are in the building too late, there's always going to be a suspicion of after-hours serving when that happens. We're stand-alone and I have to imagine it's worse somewhere like the WD. Besides, whose customers are they when they are already on the street? There's no way of knowing.
July 10, 200717 yr The cops really don't care unless they are loud or fighting That is the point. If they are loud or fighting, it is the responsibility of the bar to get them on their way, especially in a neighborhood with residential.
July 10, 200717 yr When I was in FL, and in the bar business (rowdy ones) years ago, any time there was a problem out front or in back with departing patrons there was always some accountability-in may cases successful civil lawsuits by victims. yes, I worked at some seedy places. In fact if there were alcohol related incidents (particularly DUI with injury)after being served in bar, there were often legal consequences. One college bar I worked at had bouncers that were supposed to card EVERYONE so the bartenders did not have to, but would let some people slide for a "favor". There was a sting one night where every bartender was arrested and taken out in handcuffs-it shut the place down that night. Thank goodness I was not on that night. I don't go into the type of places I worked in Fl here in Cleveland, but it seems things are not regulated as well
July 11, 200717 yr Seriously now - things are really starting to get a little weird... WKYC: Off-duty officer shoots female then himself Created: 7/10/2007 8:59:02 PM Updated:7/10/2007 10:14:21 PM CLEVELAND -- An off-duty Cleveland Police officer on the force over 20 years shot his estranged wife and then turned the gun on himself. Officials tell Channel 3 News the couple were involved in a heated dispute. ... www.wkyc.com
July 11, 200717 yr what is in the Cleveland water....is this the next step in the zebra muscle's world domination plan? (yeah, probably in poor taste, but what is going on is really, really weird)
July 11, 200717 yr good move by Cimperman, imho The Plain Dealer Curfew would ban late gatherings on Public Square No more camping out or hanging out on Public Square past 10 p.m. if Cleveland City Council passes a new law to limit activity on the Square after hours. A law to prohibit people gathering or sleeping on Public Square between 10 p.m. and 5 a.m. will be introduced at today's council meeting. Councilman Joe Cimperman, who represents downtown, said the law is intended to improve safety by banning homeless people from sleeping on the square and keeping kids from hanging out there late at night. "This is about people hanging out there all night and people feeling unsafe when they walk through,'' he said. The mall areas downtown, near City Hall and the Convention Center, already have such restrictions. People will be able to walk though the square after hours but not gather there. www.cleveland.com
July 11, 200717 yr what is in the Cleveland water....is this the next step in the zebra muscle's world domination plan? (yeah, probably in poor taste, but what is going on is really, really weird) I think its the heat...that always makes people crazy.
July 11, 200717 yr the gathering thing on public square sounds good, but I am guessing there will be issues with enforcement. I have seen some pretty unusual things going on right in font of a police cruiser
July 12, 200717 yr Cleveland crime targeted by black activist's campout Thursday, July 12, 2007Jesse Tinsley Plain Dealer Reporter A tent set up in a dusty gravel lot in the middle of one of Cleveland's most crime- and drug-infested neighborhoods is a temporary home for community activist Art McKoy. McKoy, leader of Black on Black Crime Inc., moved into the tent Monday to see for himself the reported horrors of daily life in the St. Clair-Superior neighborhood east of East 71st Street. Nights have been sleepless with occasional gunfire, screeching car tires and young people gathered all night on the porches and lawns of abandoned homes ... ... More at http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/cuyahoga/1184229239289001.xml&coll=2
July 12, 200717 yr Sort of frightening, really. Other cities have clubs and people don't get shot up. Frankly, Cleveland can't afford to let the WHD turn into the Wild West. been to LA, Atlanta, DC , MIA, etc.... Jamie you know I love you to pieces, but I have to call you on the first portion of that statement.
July 12, 200717 yr Sort of frightening, really. Other cities have clubs and people don't get shot up. Frankly, Cleveland can't afford to let the WHD turn into the Wild West. been to LA, Atlanta, DC , MIA, etc.... Jamie you know I love you to pieces, but I have to call you on the first portion of that statement. Club shootings in other cities don't make news unless a celebrity like Pacman Jones is involved. But they happen at least as much as here. As for the "wild west", he's right. The demise of the East Bank began when the gangs discovered Riverfest, and was accelerated when they stuck around, though Calamity Jane's police didn't help matters with their targetting of alcohol violations instead of violent crime outside the bars. I've often wondered if some of that era's powers-that-be had investments on the West Bank on in Warehouse.
July 12, 200717 yr Sort of frightening, really. Other cities have clubs and people don't get shot up. Frankly, Cleveland can't afford to let the WHD turn into the Wild West. been to LA, Atlanta, DC , MIA, etc.... Jamie you know I love you to pieces, but I have to call you on the first portion of that statement. Yeah, yeah, I guess I exposed the bubble I live in :)
July 12, 200717 yr Cleveland crime targeted by black activist's campout Thursday, July 12, 2007Jesse Tinsley Plain Dealer Reporter A tent set up in a dusty gravel lot in the middle of one of Cleveland's most crime- and drug-infested neighborhoods is a temporary home for community activist Art McKoy. McKoy, leader of Black on Black Crime Inc., moved into the tent Monday to see for himself the reported horrors of daily life in the St. Clair-Superior neighborhood east of East 71st Street. To reach this Plain Dealer reporter: [email protected], 216-999-4889 http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/cuyahoga/1184229239289001.xml&coll=2 I commend Art on this. Good for him.
July 15, 200717 yr another murder at Mirage this Am..trying to get more info to post. this place needs to go. I am guesing it has got to be close to double digits since this place opened.
July 15, 200717 yr Sort of frightening, really. Other cities have clubs and people don't get shot up. Frankly, Cleveland can't afford to let the WHD turn into the Wild West. been to LA, Atlanta, DC , MIA, etc.... Jamie you know I love you to pieces, but I have to call you on the first portion of that statement. Yeah, yeah, I guess I exposed the bubble I live in :) Ahem....These two articles were on my home page today (one from the city that never sleeps to another in a sleepy little city). Rapper Remy Ma Charged With Attempted Murder in Shooting Outside Manhattan Nightclub 07-15-2007 1:21 AM NEW YORK (Associated Press) -- Grammy-nominated rapper Remy Ma was arrested Saturday on charges of attempted murder in a shooting outside a trendy Manhattan nightspot, police said. The 26-year-old rapper, whose real name is Remy Smith, had been sought for questioning in the shooting of a 23-year-old woman early Saturday after a verbal dispute near a bar in the Meatpacking District. She reported to police Saturday evening and was also arrested on charges of assault and criminal possession of a weapon, police said. ... www.associatedpress.com ___ Cheyenne, Wyo., Police Seek Guardsman Suspected of Killing Wife While She Sang With Band 07-15-2007 2:20 PM CHEYENNE, Wyo. (Associated Press) -- Police were searching Sunday for a National Guardsman with sniper training who they suspect shot his wife to death while she sang with a band in a restaurant and bar. Robin Munis was shot in the head just after midnight Saturday as she sang with the classic rock and country group Ty and the Twisters. Customers of the Old Chicago ran _ to a bathroom, a walk-in refrigerator and anywhere else they could find cover _ as a black pickup truck drove slowly out of the parking lot, then sped away. ... www.associatedpress.com ### "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 15, 200717 yr Thats not to far away from MrNYC crib. Thats why I don't go out to clubs very often. Young whippersnappers don't know how to behave! BTW, I loved the Pizza Bar when it first opened.
July 15, 200717 yr First Foxxy now Remy! what is the trendy meat packing district coming too. I tell you downtown manhattan is just not safe!
July 16, 200717 yr Cheyenne isn't safe either, no kidding. My sister lived there for a couple of years and said the people there are really strange, not in a small town charming kind of way. More in a crazy stalking kind of way. Not much else to do there, I guess.
July 16, 200717 yr hey now -- lucky we went to the reds-mets game at shea last night. pizza bar is literally right around the corner. sheesh.
July 16, 200717 yr From the 7/15/07 PD: Former Cleveland gang members clean up the streets Job training, service replace gang culture Sunday, July 15, 2007 Stan Donaldson Plain Dealer Reporter Nearly a dozen former members of a Cleveland youth gang returned Friday to the East Side streets where some once sold drugs -- but this time, they picked up trash. The teens, former members of what they called the "Trap Squad" street crew, toiled peacefully as some neighbors watched with curiosity. "Why not clean up the streets?" said 19-year-old Mario Woodruff. "We've cleaned up our attitudes." ... To reach this Plain Dealer reporter: [email protected], 216-999-4885 http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/cuyahoga/1184489031307050.xml&coll=2
July 16, 200717 yr This is the text of an email I sent to the Cleveland Mayor's office this morning and I encourage others to do the same. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!! Every morning I log onto the local news pages and it seems like every Monday they are consistently reporting about violent weekends in the city of Cleveland. The mayor promotes his agenda as "an investment in the quality of life and promoting Cleveland as a great city where everyone can prosper." IT'S TIME FOR SOME ACTION!!! Where are the police? Where is the Mayor speaking out against violence? Where are the visible changes that the residents can see that these problems are being taken seriously? I have lived in the city for 4 years now as a young professional because I believed in the city and its direction then, but now I am looking to jump ship. I don't have confidence that I am safe in the city and the publicity is terrible for attracting new business and tourism dollars. Thank you for your time.
July 16, 200717 yr somebody from cleveland.com coming here to complain but not having or listing any solutions to the problem. We all want our city to prosper, but posting half a message isn't going to cut it here on urbanohio.
July 16, 200717 yr What is your problem? I am a concerned citizen and I wrote to the mayor's office and I continually write to my councilman (without ever receiving a response to my concerns). I just wanted to share what I sent to the mayor and to encourage others to do the same. I am not an elected official, so the solutions to this problem are not for me to decide. I can only call the mayor to action and ask him for what I want, which is to see more police on the streets. I know police can't be everywhere and stop every crime, but I am tired of walking past Starbucks on west 6th street and seeing at least 4 cops in there at all hours of the day. Let's see some action.
July 16, 200717 yr holy crap...relax twosense. as a public forum im pretty sure than any and everybody should be allowed to contribute in whatever way they feel best fit. Just because its not up to your personal standard has no bearing on whether or not its cut out for Urban Ohio. Give me a break.
July 16, 200717 yr What is your problem? I am a concerned citizen and I wrote to the mayor's office and I continually write to my councilman (without ever receiving a response to my concerns). I just wanted to share what I sent to the mayor and to encourage others to do the same. I am not an elected official, so the solutions to this problem are not for me to decide. I can only call the mayor to action and ask him for what I want, which is to see more police on the streets. I know police can't be everywhere and stop every crime, but I am tired of walking past Starbucks on west 6th street and seeing at least 4 cops in there at all hours of the day. Let's see some action. Your initial post came across as a complain...nothing more. Suggestions: 1 - Gather in numbers with your residential neighbors, I'm sure they share the same views and want their "investment" to appreciate and their neighborhood to prosper. 2 - With said allies, contact businesses in the HWD and let them know that you and your neighbors want to unite to better improve the area. 3 - take - hand deliver that information to the CPD, the HWD office and cipperman. Just don't complain but have a plan of action.
July 16, 200717 yr Good job Andy - regardless of what Mytwosense says, there is only SO MUCH citizens can do in this situation. You sharing your letter with us, and encouraging us to do the same - is taking Civic Responsibility - and was not a gripe session. We're not talking about litter on the sidewalks here.... What sort of "plan of action" are citizens supposed to have when dealing with violent crime? We elect 'leaders' to address these issues, and hope they support sufficient police officers to keep us safe. Unfortunately, city leaders have been mute for the most part on this. In fact, Jackson's response the other day was "it's just not happening in Cleveland". I don't care that other cities are also dealing with a spike in violent crimes - i want to know how WE are going to deal with it. I haven't given up on the city, and i feel safe in my immediate neighborhood...but believe me I think twice before traveling the streets of Cleveland at night.
July 16, 200717 yr I haven't given up on the city, and i feel safe in my immediate neighborhood...but believe me I think twice before traveling the streets of Cleveland at night. It seems like a lot of these murders occur between 2am and 4am.
July 16, 200717 yr I hate to sound harsh, but let's be frank here: these crimes aren't random and they're happening in places where you can expect trouble. Spy Bar=trouble. Mirage=trouble. The guy who was killed in the Flats this weekend has a rap sheet taller than me and did four years for dealing cocaine and having a concealed weapon. The victim in the Warehouse District shooting was picked up for doing drug trafficking. I'm not an officer, and I'm not involved, but something tells me this wasn't some random act of violence. Its criminal on criminal. These incidents don't scare me as much as the high school thugs walking around in front of my building in the Warehouse District looking for trouble at 4 in the afternoon to prove they're men with low IQs. Violence in anyway shape or form is bad for a city and bad for its citizens, but let's not go all 19 Action News and start saying, "I'm going to get shot if I walk outside." I thought the mayor had announced last month that he was "untying" the hands of the cops. If so, I'd like to see a little bit more roughing up of these gang members and drug dealers. Maybe the police are letting them kill each other off. I have no idea.
July 16, 200717 yr I wish I could remember the exact statistic, but In Los Angeles, its something absurd that like over 50% of all murders in the city are gang vs. gang murders.
July 16, 200717 yr Yea - I'm aware that it is probably more like 90% gang vs. gang or at least criminal vs. criminal. It's just with the more murders happening - the opportunity to truly be at the wrong place at the wrong time increases. I guess i'll take Mirage off my pub crawl list.
July 16, 200717 yr I agree with that...it would suck to live in a neighborhood where this is a nightly thing.
July 16, 200717 yr I haven't given up on the city, and i feel safe in my immediate neighborhood...but believe me I think twice before traveling the streets of Cleveland at night. It seems like a lot of these murders occur between 2am and 4am. It's pretty well known in the bar industry that closing time is when a lot of the problems happen. Add in the fact that people leaving different bars are mixing in the streets, and....
July 16, 200717 yr Coroner investigating two killings The Plain Dealer Posted by Donna J. Miller July 16, 2007 12:25PM Categories: Crime The Cuyahoga County Coroner is examing two apparent homicide victims today. Both were killed in Cleveland early Sunday. Tony Rice, 17, of East 174th Street in Cleveland, was shot about 12:15 a.m. Police found him lying in the street at East 121st Street and Cromwell Avenue. He died three hours later at MetroHealth Medical Center, Cuyahoga County Coroner Elizabeth Balraj said. ... www.cleveland.com
July 16, 200717 yr I keep saying get rid of mirage, and let Hustler go there instead of at the swing bridge/tow path! I really hope Mirages days are numbered. what I don't get it is-how many murders does it take to get these places closed??? I am not really blaming the city at this point b/c I do not know what the rights are of these club owners, but since I have lived here (2 years) I am guessing 4-6 plus murders. I think people come to these places to settle scores...so yes the clubs are drawing criminals in. I think somebody mentioned Pittsburgh-one murder you are on warning, second you are gone-probably in the form of losing the liquor licence. The fact that the victims are criminals really does not console me as much anymore. While I am not out at 4am, other people in this community are-be they out rightfully partying themselves or medical or other 3rd shift people coming home. a stray bullet is a dangerous thing. I do know someone whose car picked up a bullet from Moda one night. PS. yes I am involved with expressing concern publically regarding Mirage and Alchemy (I actually approached the owner -to put a human face to the problem- at a meeting and asked him to do something to protect the community and the customers).
July 16, 200717 yr I hear what you're saying Peabody about the mirage and I agree with you about criminals killing criminals. My concern is, is it really Mirage's fault one idiot/criminal with a grudge against another idiot/criminal, took it upon himself to shoot the other guy dead? I feel that even if Mirage did strip searches to make sure weapons weren't brought into the club, stuff like this would still occur in the parking lots and streets of the West Flats. Basically I don't think its the businesses problem, but a broader social/crime issue. I think I would like to see a MUCH larger police presence, as in officers patroling the whole area on foot with others on Bikes and in cars, before I would advocate a bussiness being shut down.
July 16, 200717 yr Maybe the police are letting them kill each other off. There is a temptation to let them do that, but there's the risk of innocent people getting in the crossfire (remember Longwood Plaza 10-15 years ago, when a baby in a stroller was shot? Or the taxi driver?). And not all of these kids dealing drugs or in gangs are bad-asses. They turn to gangs for some sense of family structure or they get seduced by the easy money of dealing drugs. I tutored a classmate named Oren while we were in college together in the early 1990s. I didn't tutor him because I was smarter -- I merely had the luxury of going to a better public school system than he had. He grew up in the Harvard-Broadway neighborhood and was in a gang back in middle school and high school. Why? 'Cause that's what kids in his neighborhood did. He was a very nice guy and smart, too. He caught up to me quickly once he was exposed to a decent education. I don't know what happened to him, but he at least put himself on a path to avoid a destructive lifestyle that had sucked in so many of his friends. Oren was definitely not the type of young man who deserved to be caught up in all the street violence. It makes me sad knowing there are more like him on the streets, staying in gangs because of peer pressure, need for a "family" structure or simply because they know no other lifestyle. And some of them won't live to see their 30th birthdays. There are, of course, plenty of thugs in gangs, and some gangs are nothing but psychotic thugs. But not all gangsters are brain-dead idiots who have no desire for a better life. Those who don't fit that mold don't deserve to be killed in the crossfire. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 17, 200717 yr John Q's is hosting a special meeting for residents of the Warehouse District, Tuesday July 17th. The program begins at 7pm and is scheduled to 8:30pm. The meeting will be for residents to discuss the recent events in the WHD and to express concerns about the future of the district. Please RSVP for this event by calling Kelly at 344-3937.
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