Tbideon,

 

Doesn't it brother you that we're talking about a killing 16 year old child? Yes, this is a heinous crime, but we're talking about a child. He should not see the light of day for a long time, but I don't advocate the death penalty. Again, "draconian" punishment doesn't deter crime. Do you think this kid actually thought about the consequences? If he did, he probably wouldn't have committed the crime. That's the problem with deterrence. It applies to people like you and me who have a lot to lose. However, for some people, the thought of death or life in prison means nothing.

 

I'm sure the kid didn't concern himself with the consequences because he knew that there were none worth worrying about (a bit circular, I'll admit).  There is a big difference between a couple years in the joint compared to breathing in poison gasses.  You don't steal a loaf of bread if the clerk has a gun pointed to your head.  You put it back and walk away. 

 

And this guy isn't a child.  He's a near-adult adolescent.  He can drive a car.  He can operate machinery on a farm.  He can put a knife to someone's throat and rape them.  Beyond some outdated social definitions of what constitutes a child, which vary in different states, there's nothing about him that puts him in that category.

 

Ugh, this one happened at night, but same location.

 

SECURITY ALERT

Case Western Reserve Police and Security Services

 

 

 

Location of Incident: Wade Lagoon, Cleveland Museum of Art

 

Date of Incident: Tuesday, June 23, 2009

 

Time of Incident: 11:01 p.m.

 

Incident Description: A man and a woman who are not affiliated with the university were sitting at Wade Lagoon by the Cleveland Museum of Art when they were approached by three unknown men. One of the suspects brandished a handgun, and the three demanded money. The man and woman handed over their valuables, and the three suspects fled northwest on foot.

 

Suspect Descriptions: The suspects are described as follows:

 

Suspect #1 - black male, medium height, thin build, white t-shirt, tan pants, black head rag

Suspect #2 – black male, medium height, stocky build, braided hair, blue and green striped polo-style shirt, armed with a silver handgun

Suspect #3- black male, medium height, medium build, red shirt, red shorts

Additional Information: University Circle and Case Western Reserve University Police apprehended a juvenile male who met the description of the first suspect. The youth positively identified by the victims. The investigation is ongoing.

 

Security Alert # 8

Initiated: 6/24/2009

Information provided by: Case Western Reserve Police Department

 

Ridiculous. 

 

Tbideon,

 

Doesn't it brother you that we're talking about a killing 16 year old child? Yes, this is a heinous crime, but we're talking about a child. He should not see the light of day for a long time, but I don't advocate the death penalty. Again, "draconian" punishment doesn't deter crime. Do you think this kid actually thought about the consequences? If he did, he probably wouldn't have committed the crime. That's the problem with deterrence. It applies to people like you and me who have a lot to lose. However, for some people, the thought of death or life in prison means nothing.

 

 

Were not talking about a child.  We're talking about a monster.  This 16 year old is not a "kid."  Furthermore, do you really think he'll be rehabilitated?  Do you think he'll turn into a productive member of society?  More than likely, he'll be released and commit more crimes.

 

I have no tolerance for these crimes and do not believe these "kids" should be given second opportunities.  He raped someone.  If it were some sort of thievery, even a mugging, maybe.  But rape? 

 

Look at the incidences of recidivism.  It's astronomical.  If you can get the kid before puberty, maybe you can change him.  This kid is beyond the point.  He'll just be released to his mother who had had multiple children out of wedlock, the baby-daddy who is probably locked up himself, and his peers who are probably a bunch of criminals. 

 

I know I'm stereotyping, but it's time to call a spade a spade and quit with this "he's only a kid" nonsense.  "Kids" don't just murder or rape.  Savages do. 

 

Sorry to be taking this off-topic.

We have to address the root of the problem. Too many teenagers in certain neighborhoods are being left to their own devices.

 

But since this kid is PART of the problem he needs to be locked up for a long time. I am 100% with the death sentence or life long sentences for those who are commited of rape, regardless of age. He knew exactly what he was doing and brought a knife along to ensure he would be successfull at it. This kid is behind bars and is where he needs to stay! Too many people want to sympathize for the felon instead of keeping them off the streets and everyone else safe. I dont believe in rehabilitation of people who have no morals or respect for human society.

I'm not advocating sympathy for any felon. My only argument is that the death penalty is extreme in rape cases. I have no problem with this kid spending the next 20-30 years of his life in jail. Would we apply the same type of punishment for a forcible rape committed by a 16 year old from the suburbs? What if a 16 year old from Westlake raped his girlfriend after prom, would you still be advocating the death penalty? Would you call him a savage?

It said was tongue in cheek: parents do need to be punished. If parents are legally responsible for their children under the age of 18, then make them responsible.

As I've told my daughters, there is no such thing as date rape(short of being drugged).  Unless someone is holding a weapon at your head, there are any number of ways to incapacitate a 16 year old boy!  I expect them to use any means available to stop it.  Once they have pulled a weapon, than it becomes forcible rape.

I'm not advocating sympathy for any felon. My only argument is that the death penalty is extreme in rape cases. I have no problem with this kid spending the next 20-30 years of his life in jail. Would we apply the same type of punishment for a forcible rape committed by a 16 year old from the suburbs? What if a 16 year old from Westlake raped his girlfriend after prom, would you still be advocating the death penalty? Would you call him a savage?

 

Ahh here comes the accusations of racism.  OF COURSE if a 16 year old from Westlake, w/ a lengthy rap-sheet already, held a knife to a girl and then raped her, I would want him executed, too. 

I wasn't not calling it racism. I just never seen so many people through around the death penalty like it was a speeding ticket. We are talking about the state killing someone. So, If the kid from Westlake didn't have a lengthy rap-sheet you wouldn't want the death penalty? That's the problem with the death penalty. Where is the cutoff?

"I'm not advocating sympathy for any felon. My only argument is that the death penalty is extreme in rape cases. I have no problem with this kid spending the next 20-30 years of his life in jail. Would we apply the same type of punishment for a forcible rape committed by a 16 year old from the suburbs? What if a 16 year old from Westlake raped his girlfriend after prom, would you still be advocating the death penalty? Would you call him a savage?"

 

 

Depends on the circumstances.  This kid put a knife to a young woman's throat and brutally and openly raping her with the threat of death if she didn't comply.  As far as I'm concerned, his life is therefore forfeit.

 

Now regarding some Westlake kid raping his girlfriend after prom, well, how I would treat the bad guy here would depend on the context.  I would say that if that kid put a knife to his girlfriend's as well and brutalized her, then he should be fried.  If, however, the kid is drunk and thus not in complete control of his actions, well, then I might change my tune a bit since we don't fry drunken drivers who run over patrons.  Hell, if you're on the Browns, you don't even go to prison.

 

 

As I've told my daughters, there is no such thing as date rape(short of being drugged). Unless someone is holding a weapon at your head, there are any number of ways to incapacitate a 16 year old boy! I expect them to use any means available to stop it. Once they have pulled a weapon, than it becomes forcible rape.

 

I partially agree.  If a male is stronger than a female or has drugged her or something, then it can be forceable rape without a weapon.  But I think that basically there is forcible rape and "giving in".  If it's not forceable, how can it be rape?

 

Forceable rape should carry EXTREMELY stiff penalties.

^So its about context? That is pretty subjective when we're talking about killing someone, and that is exactly my issue with a state sanctioned death penalty.

All crimes' penalties are governed by context.  Obviously not all killers should get the death penalty, but some should based on the situation.  The same applies with rapists, that the death penalty should be a potential sentence should the circumstances warrant it.  For a 16 year old male to put a knife to a young woman's throat and rape her, the crime can't get more violent than that and thus the most severe punishment is justified.

 

 

As I've told my daughters, there is no such thing as date rape(short of being drugged). Unless someone is holding a weapon at your head, there are any number of ways to incapacitate a 16 year old boy! I expect them to use any means available to stop it. Once they have pulled a weapon, than it becomes forcible rape.

 

I partially agree. If a male is stronger than a female or has drugged her or something, then it can be forceable rape without a weapon. But I think that basically there is forcible rape and "giving in". If it's not forceable, how can it be rape?

 

Sex against your will is rape.  There are lots of ways someone can threaten or coerce you into unwanted sex besides drugs or a hand held weapon.  I mean, they can threaten to beat you if you don't comply, but there's no "proof" of that because there's no weapon or drugs, but it's still unwanted sex.  Or they can be your husband and make you do it because you are married and they expect it, it happens all the time, it's just another form of spousal abuse, but it's still rape. Or what if they have something on you, like a professor who caught you cheating on a class you need to graduate, and then makes you have sex with him to keep him from blabbing?  Obviously you shouldn't have been cheating in the first place, but does it justify someone raping you?  Or what if you got drunk on your OWN (or consumed drugs) instead of them drugging you and then they have their way with you when you're half or completely unconscious.  That's not rape?  Come on.

We are going to take a life of an individual that didn't even take the life of his victim. I understand the rape victim is devastated, and will carry this with her the rest the of her life, but this doesn't even meet the "eye for an eye" standard. In my opinion, this does not equal justice.

You are missing my point.  Rape is Rape.  Unless some sort of force is threatened, I think any woman is capable of preventing it.  ONCE that force is applied, its pure and simple RAPE.  My point to my daughters is, NO ONE should be able to talk you into having sex against your will.  And to any woman I would say, If you don't see a weapon, a swift kick or punch to the testicles will give you more than adequate time to make your escape.

What does meet up with the "eye for an eye" standard?  How do you equate jail time with larceny, burglary, etc?  That's not how it works.  If you viciously punch me in the face, you'll get charged with battery and might go to jail.  According to your logic, that would not be an "eye for an eye" either. 

 

If I raped a bunch of little girls, would the state be unjustified in taking my life simply because I did not take their lives? 

Rape is "unlawful sexual activity and usually sexual intercourse carried out forcibly or under threat of injury".

 

Sex against your will is rape. There are lots of ways someone can threaten or coerce you into unwanted sex besides drugs or a hand held weapon. I mean, they can threaten to beat you if you don't comply, but there's no "proof" of that because there's no weapon or drugs, but it's still unwanted sex.

 

If this can be shown (the threat), then it fits the definition of rape, and thus would be a "forceable rape".

 

Or they can be your husband and make you do it because you are married and they expect it, it happens all the time, it's just another form of spousal abuse, but it's still rape.

 

If it's not forceful, then it's a marital issue that needs to be resolved. Withholding sex is grounds for divorce as well. Both are much different than holding a knife to a complete stranger.

 

Or what if they have something on you, like a professor who caught you cheating on a class you need to graduate, and then makes you have sex with him to keep him from blabbing? Obviously you shouldn't have been cheating in the first place, but does it justify someone raping you?

 

It doesn't justify him using it against you for sex, but it doesn't justify you in accepting the "transaction", either. This sounds more like blackmail on one end and prostitution on the other than rape.

 

Or what if you got drunk on your OWN (or consumed drugs) instead of them drugging you and then they have their way with you when you're half or completely unconscious. That's not rape?

 

Yes, also rape. They forced themselves upon someone incapable of resisting. There's also the fact that the victim should probably make better choices, but it of course doesn't excuse the perpetrator.

 

I think that as long as we lump all rapes together, equating a violent rape of a complete stranger with a poor decision while drunk later regretted, we will be reluctant to come up with a punishment that fits the crime for the most serious cases.

All I was trying to say is that killing individual is the ultimate penalty. So, applying the death penalty to a crime where the action doesn't actually kill someone is disproportionate. Therefore, it violates the 8th Amendment...Cruel and unusual punishment.

I agree with jam40jeff's analysis on rape.  The death penalty is another tough issue.  I tend to doubt its effectiveness for two reasons:

 

1)  It's targeted at people who aren't motivated by legal consequences, and

 

2)  We're trying to discourage taking violent revenge, trying to demonstrate that it's wrong.  This is a losing fight if our tactics include taking violent revenge.  It tells everyone that society sees value in this tactic, despite all claims to the contrary.

 

 

It has been shown that sexual offenders are the hardest (or nearly impossible) to rehabilitate. Are there any ideas for how to apply punishment and future prevention fitting of the crime committed? Are there ways to incapacitate their reproductive urges or capacities without being cruel and unusual?

There have been so many recent examples of inadequate penalties which have resulted in further rapes and murders.  It is time to get control and make sure that the punishments fit the crime.  Society has the right to expect these criminals will never get back out on the streets to commit these heinous acts.  Let god sort it all out!

 

If the punishments were adequate, there would be no need for "hate" crime legislation.  All crime should be treated equally, not by degree of hate.  If you kill someone, it shouldn't matter why you did it.

If you kill someone, it shouldn't matter why you did it.

 

I'm not so sure about that. All murders are obviously horrible crimes, but I think there's a difference in level of guilt and danger to society between someone killing someone that raped or killed one of their family members as revenge (still wrong, but different) than someone who randomly kills an innocent person on the street or shoots up a college campus.

 

I do agree that in regards to crimes of this magnitude, however, that people have given up their right to live their life as they please and have delegated it to the state to decide how to ensure that they don't have the opportunity to endanger society again.  If this was how punishment worked, you would see these types of crimes completely reduced to the people who have absolutely no regard for even their own life, and in turn those people would be removed from free society.

I can agree with that!

If you kill someone, it shouldn't matter why you did it.

 

So, are you saying that a father who kills a man who raped his daughter should be punished the same as a man who stabs an 80 yr old woman without provocation?

 

I guess I just don't see how the justice system can not take mitigating factors into account when assessing the proper punishment.

 

EDIT: jam40jeff, we are working on the same wave length  :wink:

I can agree with that!

 

Oh, no, what's going on! :)

This thread getting waaay off topic for starters.

Do we need or do we already have a Crime and Punishment thread?

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/07/clevelandarea_russian_mob_expe.html

 

Cleveland-area Russian mob, experts debate whether it's a criminal organization or just a loosely linked criminal network

Posted by John Caniglia / Plain Dealer Reporter July 03, 2009 21:00PM

 

They looted computer buyers, insurance companies and their own countrymen in a series of scams and extortions that caused police in Northeast Ohio to scramble for years.

 

But were the crimes, committed by Russian immigrants, part of a sinister, organized mob or were they unconnected acts linked only by the ancestry of the criminals?

 

 

....

http://www.wkyc.com/news/local/news_article.aspx?storyid=117378&catid=3

 

Cleveland: Teen sentenced in connection with park execution style shootings

Posted By:   Updated: 7/8/2009 3:53:36 PM Posted: 7/8/2009 3:47:42 PM

 

CLEVELAND -- A juvenile court judge has sentenced a teenager to a minimum of one year's detention in connection with the execution style shootings of two Cleveland Clinic workers earlier this year.

 

The teen could be held until he's 21 at a juvenile correction facility.

 

...

^A year for driving the getaway car...

 

I'm probably not the only one who would expect for the kid to end up back in jail for another crime after he's released from juvenile.

^^ Damn, a year??? Not to mention, Juvy is a cake walk. Those 12 months will fly by for him.

There have been so many recent examples of inadequate penalties which have resulted in further rapes and murders.  It is time to get control and make sure that the punishments fit the crime.  Society has the right to expect these criminals will never get back out on the streets to commit these heinous acts.  Let god sort it all out!

 

If the punishments were adequate, there would be no need for "hate" crime legislation.  All crime should be treated equally, not by degree of hate.  If you kill someone, it shouldn't matter why you did it.

 

Punishment as retribution is largely irrelevant to preventing crime.  I believe that the criminal mind is fundamentally different from yours and mine.  The main objective of the penal system should be  to identify sociopaths as soon as possible and within the bounds of the State and Federal Constitutions incarcerate those people for as long as possible (humanely), hopefully with three violent strikes requiring a life without parole sentance.  Anything less and we are just  kidding ourselves about our ability to rehabilitate these people.  This comes from many sources, most recently a person who has been working in the criminal/social services sector for close to 20 years.  She says the recidivism rate even with significant and expensive treatment exceeds 90% and that there is no statistical difference in recidivism between those who go into these programs and those who don't. 

There have been so many recent examples of inadequate penalties which have resulted in further rapes and murders. It is time to get control and make sure that the punishments fit the crime. Society has the right to expect these criminals will never get back out on the streets to commit these heinous acts. Let god sort it all out!

 

If the punishments were adequate, there would be no need for "hate" crime legislation. All crime should be treated equally, not by degree of hate. If you kill someone, it shouldn't matter why you did it.

 

Punishment as retribution is largely irrelevant to preventing crime. I believe that the criminal mind is fundamentally different from yours and mine. The main objective of the penal system should be to identify sociopaths as soon as possible and within the bounds of the State and Federal Constitutions incarcerate those people for as long as possible (humanely), hopefully with three violent strikes requiring a life without parole sentance. Anything less and we are just kidding ourselves about our ability to rehabilitate these people. This comes from many sources, most recently a person who has been working in the criminal/social services sector for close to 20 years. She says the recidivism rate even with significant and expensive treatment exceeds 90% and that there is no statistical difference in recidivism between those who go into these programs and those who don't.

 

I agree whole-heartedly.  While very few may be able to change, the reality is that a majority not only do not, but also cannot. 

The point of my original post was that repeat offenders were getting out of jail, and raping and murdering again!  I'm not interested in their punishment as a way to deter other criminals; we know that doesn't work.  What I want to prevent is these people ever seeing the light of day again. 

 

Life without parole, or preferably capital punishment, will prevent THEM from ever raping or murdering again.

http://www.city.cleveland.oh.us/CityofCleveland/Home/PressRelease/prdetail?id=4303

 

For Immediate Release:

Wednesday, July 8, 2009

 

Online Reporting Debuts on Cleveland Police Website

New tool convenient for public and frees officers to handle priority assignments

 

CLEVELAND - An online reporting link debuted this week on the Cleveland Division of Police website giving citizens the ability to report incidents to police at their convenience. Visitors to the Cleveland Police website can now report minor incidents such as lost property, damage to property and petty theft, with a few keystrokes.

 

By clicking “Online Police Reporting” on the left side of the Cleveland Police website (www.city.cleveland.oh.us/police), visitors are walked through a simple to understand and easy to use report submission system. Visitors simply fill in the requested information and then record a temporary report number. After the report is reviewed it is assigned a permanent report number and then e-mailed back to the citizen for their records.

 

“The benefits of this new reporting system are two-fold,” said Chief of Police Michael McGrath. “The public now has the ability to report incidents at a time and in a fashion that will be convenient for them and we will be able to dedicate our patrol cars to handle priority assignments.”

 

Director of Public Safety Martin Flask agreed adding, “The implementation of online reporting is part of our overall goal to reduce calls for police service. Combined with recently enacted nuisance abatement legislation and a focus on eliminating police responses to false alarm calls, we expect online reporting to help improve the efficiency of the Division of Police.”

 

The system will eliminate the need for a zone car response to minor and “no-suspect” calls while still recording the incident and collecting reportable data for additional investigation, statistical analysis and mandatory reporting requirements.

Operation FALCON nets more than 1,200 arrests in northern Ohio

by Michael Sangiacomo/Plain Dealer Reporter

Thursday July 09, 2009, 4:19 PM

 

CLEVELAND — Federal and local authorities arrested 1,211 fugitives last month in northern Ohio in Operation FALCON 2009.

 

U.S. Marshal Peter Elliott said officers concentrated mainly on Cuyahoga and Lorain counties, noting that 500 arrests were made in those two counties.

 

...

 

http://www.cleveland.com/crime/index.ssf/2009/07/operation_falcon_a_swooping_su.html

University Circle assaults are target of marchers

Tuesday, July 14, 2009

Trevor Hunnicutt

Plain Dealer Reporter

 

More than 50 people marched around the Wade Park Lagoon in Cleveland on Monday in a stand against the violence that has recently jarred the community.

 

More at Cleveland.com http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/cuyahoga/124756030294640.xml&coll=2

Two arrested in shooting of five overnight

 

Posted by Michael Sangiacomo/Plain Dealer Reporter July 16, 2009 07:22AM

 

CLEVELAND -- A man and a woman were arrested this morning in connection with the shooting of five people outside an East Side bar.

 

No one was killed in the 1:30 a.m. shooting outside Club Bottoms Up at Addison Road and Superior Avenue, which police said started when a 19-year-old woman was denied entrance to the bar.

 

More information at cleveland.com:

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/07/two_arrested_in_shooting_of_si.html

 

A 19 year old girl LEGALLY cannot enter a bar no matter who it is, but apparently this chick thought she should have special privileges and when the bouncer did the correct thing, i guess the next step in the process is to go and get your brother and shoot the place up. These people have no respect for human life or society as a whole and a i hope the judge comes downs hard on them with their sentencing, whenever that rolls around.

I don't want to give any legitimacy to bs rumors, but was there some kind of violent racial incident at Little Italy a few weeks back?  A friend of mine said he read on cleveland.com (I looked and couldn't find any verification) that some LI residents brutally attacked a young black man and then his white friend who came to break it up. 

 

Has anyone heard anything like this?  This kind of stuff is usually easy to find on the PD, here, cleveland.com, the news, but I haven't heard ANY corroborations.

Unfortunately, though I have never witnessed racial violence in Little Italy first hand, it wouldn't suprise me.  To this day, I personally have never set foot in that neighborhood, mainly because of the racial stigma towards African Americans that the neighborhood carries. 

I can only confirm that I read about the incident on cleveland.com

http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/cuyahoga/124756030294640.xml&coll=2

 

University Circle assaults are target of marchers

Tuesday, July 14, 2009

Trevor Hunnicutt

Plain Dealer Reporter

 

More than 50 people marched around the Wade Park Lagoon in Cleveland on Monday in a stand against the violence that has recently jarred the community.

 

...

 

This terrifies me. My grandmother in her "new found physical fitness" phase, runs or rides her bike around the oval every morning.   I would hate for someone to run up on my granny.

Unfortunately, though I have never witnessed racial violence in Little Italy first hand, it wouldn't suprise me.  To this day, I personally have never set foot in that neighborhood, mainly because of the racial stigma towards African Americans that the neighborhood carries. 

 

You aint the only one!!  I don't even drive/ride the bus thru there.

Is this the same little Italy I go to??? I see people of all kinds there and everybody always seems so friendly around that hood.

Is this the same little Italy I go to??? I see people of all kinds there and everybody always seems so friendly around that hood.

 

I am sure there is a racial stigma, but where isn't there?  If I walk down to E.105 and Superior, do you think no one would notice the cracker strollin thru?  Or what if I hang out around E55 and Scovill? 

 

Also, look at all the other neighborhoods in Cleveland, and tell me how many are as safe as Little Italy?  Virtually every neighborhood that becomes black becomes less safe.  And while I do not care to get into the socio-economic reasons for it, it's just the reality of Cleveland. 

 

So, is it unfortunate there is a stigma?  Yes.  Is it unfortunate that it deters blacks from eating here?  Yes.  But, is it surprising?  No.

A question re: L.I. I went to Case in the 70's . Although there were not a lot of African Americans in the Engineering  Program  there were some. My classmate Georgio Mc Beath (sp?) lived in the south campus dorms (L.I. side)  for four years as did some other black students. No problem with L. I. Toughs that I ever heard (although I  did know some Pika's that got  into fights with the locals). Also, my girlfriend from India  (very dank skinned) lived in L.I. in graduate school. Again no problems. Do  the L.I. toughs have esp to know  which dark shined people are  Case students and are thus Ok  to be there and which are not  or am I off base here?  Doc Broc?

I'm sure it's probably pretty easy.  Don't cause problems and you won't get problems.  That kid got shot during Hough, but everyone had an itchy finger during those days. 

Is this the same little Italy I go to??? I see people of all kinds there and everybody always seems so friendly around that hood.

 

I am sure there is a racial stigma, but where isn't there?  If I walk down to E.105 and Superior, do you think no one would notice the cracker strollin thru?  Or what if I hang out around E55 and Scovill? 

 

Also, look at all the other neighborhoods in Cleveland, and tell me how many are as safe as Little Italy?  Virtually every neighborhood that becomes black becomes less safe.  And while I do not care to get into the socio-economic reasons for it, it's just the reality of Cleveland. 

 

So, is it unfortunate there is a stigma?  Yes.  Is it unfortunate that it deters blacks from eating here?  Yes.  But, is it surprising?  No.

 

Without taking this off topic, we have a race thread, there are plenty of white families north of East 105/superior.  I spend quite a bit of time in Glenville.

I don't want to give any legitimacy to bs rumors, but was there some kind of violent racial incident at Little Italy a few weeks back?  A friend of mine said he read on cleveland.com (I looked and couldn't find any verification) that some LI residents brutally attacked a young black man and then his white friend who came to break it up. 

 

Has anyone heard anything like this?  This kind of stuff is usually easy to find on the PD, here, cleveland.com, the news, but I haven't heard ANY corroborations.

 

It is no secret that the long-time LI residents do not want blacks in their neighborhood.  Always been that way.  Now this was about 15 years ago.... but a white high school classmate of mine was jumped by his neighbors after he moved to LI and threw a party that was attended by other classmates who were black.  He said the neighbors made it quite clear why they jumped him.  Of course, when about 10 of us went and stood outside his house the next day seeing if anybody wanted to engage in a fair fight... none of the neighbors had much to say, shuffling in and out of their homes with their eyes on the ground.

 

Since then, however, I think the neighborhood has changed for the better with a more diverse (albeit not racially) population moving in.  But I still would not recommend that any minority eat at the LI restaraunts for fear of what might be done to the food.