often times there is cpd presence in front of ntc and the hawk next door.

 

upping the price of admission would lead it to be a grog shop-esque experience (too sanitized).

 

Well the CPD don't seem to be there at the right times judging from the hold ups that are happening. I get the "too sanitized" notion. But relatively safe would be nice. I don't get why nobody can do an underground show before 10 PM either. You'll get 4 acts on a bill and next thing you know you're leaving a bar at 2 AM.

This just in.....

 

Tremont artist Jeffry Chiplis shot after ArtWalk

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio --Tremont artist Jeffry Chiplis was reported in critical condition today in the intensive care unit of MetroHealth Medical Center after being shot early this morning after the Friday night Tremont ArtWalk.

His wife, Cynthia Chiplis, said witnesses told police that Chiplis was walking up the West Third Street hill around 12:30 …….

Read the rest at:

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2010/06/tremont_artist_jeffry_chiplis.html

 

 

 

 

 

I'm all for zero tolerance... But maybe that's my military background..

Naturally, I am concerned how this will affect the trust in the area. Can't we have a handful of neighborhoods left where this is not knocking on its doors. And some wonder what makes neighbors nosy and police ask questions to suspicious looking activity. Every action stirs a reaction.

Tremont is not exactly known for safety.  I was never jacked, but I endured some petty crime while living there.  I'm not sure West 3rd has a hill though.  Do they mean Literary Road hill, coming up from West 3rd?  I've walked up that hill alone plenty of times drunk at night, and you get a real vulnerable feeling there.

^ I think that is the spot. This happening on the night of the art walk. Just the night before I had an event I held at the book store.

While I know this can happen "anywhere," and the posters at cleveland.bomb often leave a lot to be desired, there are several other posts there about crime folks have experienced in Tremont that paint a pretty bad picture when you look at them all together - the people renovating the house that has been squatted with a homeless guy, etc.  I don't know what can be done about this. Some people are saying the area where this took place is bordered by or populated by section 8 housing projects, but then another person points out that section 8 housing is often occupied by single mothers and their children, so where are these criminals coming from? Are they the teen/adult children of these single mothers?  Or are they coming in from really bad parts of town to prey specifically on the "visitors" to Tremont?  Obviously this guy was not a visitor but a resident, which in many ways is worse for the neighborhood than if it had been a suburbanite visitor walking somewhere where he didn't know better than to tread.  If a long-term resident like this can be robbed and shot, what is the solution?  I think this is terrible.

All of the above. 

 

I just spent the past 4 days processing teenagers for federally funded summer jobs.  We had roughly 11,000 applicants for 3000 temporary minimum wage positions.  Each kid had to produce a mountain of paperwork to prove their poverty and residency and relation to their parents.  Most waited in line for several hours to get processed.  In many cases the parents had to skip out on their own jobs to get paperwork in order and wait in line.

 

The alternative for these kids is to rob people or sell crack.  How many multinational corporations make their money the hard way, if they don't have to?  Zero.  It's human nature.  Finding legitimate work needs to be easier, and robbing people needs to be more difficult. 

^^Criminals don't have to come from public housing or bad parts of town.  My Dad's house in Charlotte (the Dilworth neighborhood) was robbed about 10 years ago and it turned out to be his neighbor's kid.  The one who attended Charlotte Country Day school and found a liking for the nose candy his freshman year in college.

 

Then think about the 'Uniontown thug' who shot the parking lot attendant downtown last month. 

 

I just think this whole gun-play wave is an epidemic of society in general, hardly limited to people of lower socio-economic status.  We need much, much harsher penalties for those who improperly/illegally possess/use guns.

First and foremost, this was a horrible thing to happen and from what I'm hearing, the victim is recovering. I'd say that with most incidents like this in Tremont, the perps are almost always people from outside the area who know that the area has more wealthy residents, as well as wealthier visitors who are lacking in street smarts. 

 

I will say this, not all residents of an area think alike in terms of safety. I'm the first to admit that Pat's isn't really my scene (my punk years were spent in downtown Youngstown in the late 80s), but even so I would never walk alone on Literary Hill at that time of night. Just my personal feelings and in no way am I passing judgement on anyone, it's just not a place I'd feel comfortable.

 

Even though it's very close to some of the priciest real estate in Tremont, that little stretch is poorly lit, there's a lot of overgrown vegetation (aka places for perps to hide), being a steep hill and rough stretch of road, there's not much traffic to begin with, and with the West 3rd bridge closed it's even more deserted than usual. In most areas of Tremont I'm pretty comfortable - I mean, it's not like this happened right outside of Lolita at 8pm during ArtWalk, but there are a few isolated pockets (like this stretch) that I purposely avoid if I'm on foot.

 

It's hard to visualize if you're not familiar with it, Pat's on the left and those aren't PJs along Railway, those are pricey townhomes. From this angle it's hard to really see...

 

 

So I'm including this - this is at the top of the hill - this is where the lone streetlight is, and Pat's is at the bottom of the hill. Now - imagine this late at night.

 

 

 

thanks for the helpful visualiaztion

Harkens back to Kingsbury Run atmosphere.

I don't understand why we are casting doubt on the victim.  I wold bet a beer at Pat's that the perp/human animal has done this before, probably numerous times, is out on parole, etc.  He has likely demonstrated at least once before (isn't once enough?) that he can not be loose in a free society.  I am not saying that he is not a human or does not have a soul but for his own sake and for out sake he needs to be permanently incarcerated before someone gets killed.  Him and everyone else like him. 

In regards to where the criminals are coming from, yes they do come from everywhere. But I can also tell you that "the single mother raising kids" is typically not an "innocent" situation as far as section 8 housing goes. Whether mom's working 20 hours a day to bring in minimum wage paychecks to pay the bills, or more typically, mom never had a "mom/dad" to love, care, and raise her to the point that she can functionally raise another human being herself, it all comes down to the kids, and the "parenting" just is not there. Most of the kids I come across in my line of work, mom and dad are nowhere in their life, its normally aunt or grandma raising them, thats why "senior housing is not innocent" either. The kids are typically the ones doing this because no one watches them, and quite frankly, IMO, their parents really don't care. Each kid is just more money they get from SSI, per month, Its sad, absolutely. And kid criminals grow up to be adult criminals who have babies, lots and lots of babies, but they never have a family, its baby mama's, again personally, I think its almost a status quo these days to see how many baby mama's 1 can obtain, and the cycle continues.

anyway

 

i was playing guitar there that night, probably while it happened (i didn't hear any shots)

I've definitely stumbled around that hill before at night and have never had any problems.  I'll certainly be changing that after this attack.

 

Also, I can't reiterate enough how important it is to bring some kind of weapon whenever you're in an area like Tremont.  My blade saved my butt once in Coventry when a large gentleman approached my car and started to lean inside (to do do god knows what).  It was definitely a close call, and I credit my knife for saving me from a carjacking and possible bodily harm.

How 'bout a cross bow?

I've definitely stumbled around that hill before at night and have never had any problems.  I'll certainly be changing that after this attack.

 

Also, I can't reiterate enough how important it is to bring some kind of weapon whenever you're in an area like Tremont.  My blade saved my butt once in Coventry when a large gentleman approached my car and started to lean inside (to do do god knows what).  It was definitely a close call, and I credit my knife for saving me from a carjacking and possible bodily harm.

 

Are you serious?  :wtf:

 

I've definitely stumbled around that hill before at night and have never had any problems. I'll certainly be changing that after this attack.

 

Also, I can't reiterate enough how important it is to bring some kind of weapon whenever you're in an area like Tremont. My blade saved my butt once in Coventry when a large gentleman approached my car and started to lean inside (to do do god knows what). It was definitely a close call, and I credit my knife for saving me from a carjacking and possible bodily harm.

 

Are you serious? :wtf:

 

 

I bring my weapons wherever I go.... I call them Thing 1 and Thing 2 ;)

 

Also, I can't reiterate enough how important it is to bring some kind of weapon whenever you're in an area like Tremont.

 

Remember that concealed carry is legal in Ohio.  It's perfectly legal for someone here to get a gun license, buy a gun, and keep it with him while he walks the streets of Tremont.  Maybe a group of concerned citizens needs to do this if the police aren't.

I've definitely stumbled around that hill before at night and have never had any problems.  I'll certainly be changing that after this attack.

 

Also, I can't reiterate enough how important it is to bring some kind of weapon whenever you're in an area like Tremont.  My blade saved my butt once in Coventry when a large gentleman approached my car and started to lean inside (to do do god knows what).  It was definitely a close call, and I credit my knife for saving me from a carjacking and possible bodily harm.

 

Are you serious?  :wtf:

 

 

I bring my weapons wherever I go.... I call them Thing 1 and Thing 2 ;)

 

 

I call mine "whump" and "Ass"!  We're old school, not punks!  Punks today don't know what a real fight is! 

Just remember, as of this date, it is a Felony to possess a firearm in a liquor establishment, along with possessing a firearm under disability (while consuming alcohol)

Just remember, as of this date, it is a Felony to possess a firearm in a liquor establishment, along with possessing a firearm under disability (while consuming alcohol)

 

I know.  I wasn't talking about doing either of those things.  I was speaking of a sober community patrol initiative where all those people are doing is walking the streets, not going into bars.

Mmm, that's a sure way to up tourism. Welcome to the OK Corral!

Let's not lose our heads here, folks.  As horrible as this crime is, Tremont didn't suddenly become an unsafe neighborhood because of it.  Tremont has always been a big city neighborhood, with the problems that always entails, but it's also still got one of the lowest crime rates in the City.

Here's another idea...  a bag full of poisonous scorpions....

Crossbows and Scorpions, EC wants to get medieval on the criminals of Cleveland....

 

 

also... police do patrol tremont.  but there can not be a police officer on ever corner of every street 24 hours a day.  This took place in the middle of the night at an incredibly poorly lit, borderline abandoned intersection.  Yes there are pricey condos and entertainment just 'up the hill', but if you've ever been down there, that 'just up the hill' is a long, long, long way away if you are by yourself in the pitch black of night.

^^ Yeah...let's get creative! I also love the Charles Bronson boobie traps for intruders! Some of those are illegal, however, as they may snag an innocent person.

Fists don't do much against people who are bigger than you, multiple in numbers, and/or better with them.  "Punks" aren't looking for a fair fight where the victim has a chance - they're looking to rob, maim or even kill by any means necessary.  If I had a gun instead of a knife that time, I would have brandished it and, if he would have been more aggressive, shot the bad guy whereas I just popped the knife near his throat and screamed at him to back off. 

Fists don't do much against people who are bigger than you, multiple in numbers, and/or better with them.  "Punks" aren't looking for a fair fight where the victim has a chance - they're looking to rob, maim or even kill by any means necessary.  If I had a gun instead of a knife that time, I would have brandished it and, if he would have been more aggressive, shot the bad guy whereas I just popped the knife near his throat and screamed at him to back off. 

 

I'm wondering on Coventry, how did a person get so close to your car?  I have to ask.

I was at a red light at the Mayfield/Coventry intersection and a little zoned out.  No one around, window open, late at night.  I was just relaxing and listening to music until all of the sudden some guy came out of nowhere and startled me with an angry, "Yo, I want to ask you a question" (paraphrase) and began kneeling into my car.  It was obvious he was going to punch me or grab my keys or something.

 

I keep my cell phone and knife on the passenger seat so I reached over, without really thinking of it, popped the button and kind of half-arsedly swung it at him, yelling to get the f away (paraphrase).  He jumped away like a cat and I zoomed through the red light.

 

The whole thing probably took 6 or 7 seconds seconds, maybe fewer.

shoulda circled back and asked what the question was.

Fists don't do much against people who are bigger than you, multiple in numbers, and/or better with them. "Punks" aren't looking for a fair fight where the victim has a chance - they're looking to rob, maim or even kill by any means necessary. If I had a gun instead of a knife that time, I would have brandished it and, if he would have been more aggressive, shot the bad guy whereas I just popped the knife near his throat and screamed at him to back off.

 

You can't necessarily shoot someone (or cut his throat) because he approaches your car and is bigger than you.  You can't shoot him even if he approaches your car and punches you in the face.  'Proportional force' is the key term, I believe, under a self-defense analysis.

I was at a red light at the Mayfield/Coventry intersection and a little zoned out.  No one around, window open, late at night.  I was just relaxing and listening to music until all of the sudden some guy came out of nowhere and startled me with an angry, "Yo, I want to ask you a question" (paraphrase) and began kneeling into my car.  It was obvious he was going to punch me or grab my keys or something.

 

I keep my cell phone and knife on the passenger seat so I reached over, without really thinking of it, popped the button and kind of half-arsedly swung it at him, yelling to get the f away (paraphrase).  He jumped away like a cat and I zoomed through the red light.

 

The whole thing probably took 6 or 7 seconds seconds, maybe fewer.

 

Based on what you wrote you weren't paying attention and a little "zoned out", I would have just driven off.  You're in a car.

I find it odd that every time someone suggests arming yourself to stay safe in one of these neighborhoods that it becomes a big joke on here.

I find it odd that every time someone suggests arming yourself to stay safe in one of these neighborhoods that it becomes a big joke on here.

 

I don't think it's a joke, but I don't think it's a way to "stay safe" either.  What could this guy have done to protect himself?  He likely didn't know what was happening until he had a gun to him.  I don't think the outcome would have been any better if he had reached for a weapon rather than tried to run.

I think it's a joke if someone feels they have to arm themselves to go to Tremont or Coventry.  Sorry.... but I do.  JMO.

Arming oneself is sometimes the only answer.  You can't always run and the police are usually not around - they're more reactionary than anything.  What else are you supposed to do?  I mean, look at the whole Bernard Goetz situation.  The man was just minding his own business before a gang of criminals began to mug him.  Rather than be robbed and likely beaten maimed or murdered, Goetz shot the bastards a number of times.  And then he gets prosecuted in criminal and civil courts multiple times.  As if the thugs he had shot were somehow innocents or victims.  Read about them online - they're all anti-human scum.  We are one messed up society where people get arrested for defending themselves.

Arming oneself is sometimes the only answer.  You can't always run and the police are usually not around - they're more reactionary than anything.  What else are you supposed to do?  I mean, look at the whole Bernard Goetz situation.  The man was just minding his own business before a gang of criminals began to mug him.  Rather than be robbed and likely beaten maimed or murdered, Goetz shot the bastards a number of times.  And then he gets prosecuted in criminal and civil courts multiple times.  As if the thugs he had shot were somehow innocents or victims.  Read about them online - they're all anti-human scum.  We are one messed up society where people get arrested for defending themselves.

 

Oh lawd.  If I comment on Goetz, i'm sure I'll be accused of playing the race card.

the best answer for crime is concerned citizens who pay attention and report things that are happening on their streets. Unfortunately we live in a city that is down to 400,000 people or so in an area that once held over a million. It means a good deal of empty area, populated with varying degrees of concerned citizens. We need more people who hold their fellow citizens accountable and help make their neighborhoods safe.

 

That said, without safe neighborhoods it's very hard to get the people back.

^Very true.  It is both saddening and amazing to see how hollowed out much of the east side has become- with increases in crime in neighborhoods which were much more stable just a few years ago.

Restore the forests in "The Forest City" and release a million Brown Recluse spiders.. That should keep the idiots at bay. ;-)

 

Seriously...  The area still holds a large population and crime crosses over the imaginary lines... It is also a mater of how well coordinated all the surrounding communities are in stomping out a lot of the crime. Yes, people need to report suspicious activity...  and yes, there are many areas that have been hollowed out with no eyes on the streets. A great breeding ground for this crime. I wish these areas were invested in, built upon to attract a new population back into them. If only it were so simple.... 

Why should he provide statistical proof?  Half of the stuff on urbanohio.com is anecdotal.

 

I agree. ...and just to elaborate another perspective.....If you live in an area all your life...you learn by what you see and through intuition......the changes/problems and so on. I would call this a "real life field study", so to speak. You don't need some scientific verification for what is a lesson life teaches you each day. To ignore such lessons and deny what is so obvious is simply stupid.  Sometimes we need to use our own perspectives and have original ideas. I don't need a CSU case study to tell me that certain neighborhoods out in Warren have been destroyed by a combination of absentee landlords and people who have not earned a right to live in a civil and communal setting with their anti-social and lawless behavior. We live and learn too. Why discount experience.

Restore the forests in "The Forest City" and release a million Brown Recluse spiders.. That should keep the idiots at bay. ;-)

 

Seriously... The area still holds a large population and crime crosses over the imaginary lines... It is also a mater of how well coordinated all the surrounding communities are in stomping out a lot of the crime. Yes, people need to report suspicious activity... and yes, there are many areas that have been hollowed out with no eyes on the streets. A great breeding ground for this crime. I wish these areas were invested in, built upon to attract a new population back into them. If only it were so simple....

 

It is simple.  Bring low skilled light manufacturing jobs into these neighborhoods (at any cost) within walking or transit distance and watch crime plummet. 

Excuse me while I go hit the "Bring low skilled light manufacturing jobs button".  You should see that happening any second now.

Hello,

 

I am not from this planet... I need some clarification. Please help.....Now let's see if I have this straight.........  So unless the human species has something fiddle/toil with, in exchange for these green pieces of paper with dead people's faces on them.... they resort to sticking guns into their brother's back.... and cannot find other more civil ways and means to survive in life? Wow!!!!, on our planet we got past that stage of evolution eons ago. These creatures called "humans" are still quite un-evolved here. 

Restore the forests in "The Forest City" and release a million Brown Recluse spiders.. That should keep the idiots at bay. ;)

 

Seriously...  The area still holds a large population and crime crosses over the imaginary lines... It is also a mater of how well coordinated all the surrounding communities are in stomping out a lot of the crime. Yes, people need to report suspicious activity...  and yes, there are many areas that have been hollowed out with no eyes on the streets. A great breeding ground for this crime. I wish these areas were invested in, built upon to attract a new population back into them. If only it were so simple.... 

 

It is simple.  Bring low skilled light manufacturing jobs into these neighborhoods (at any cost) within walking or transit distance and watch crime plummet. 

 

"at any cost"?  ::)

 

Hello,

 

I am not from this planet... I need some clarification. Please help.....Now let's see if I have this straight.........  So unless the human species has something fiddle/toil with, in exchange for these green pieces of paper with dead people's faces on them.... they resort to sticking guns into their brother's back.... and cannot find other more civil ways and means to survive in life? Wow!!!!, on our planet we got past that stage of evolution eons ago. These creatures called "humans" are still quite un-evolved here. 

 

My biggest pet peeve...no accountability on the criminals.  It's always someone else's fault...the people who left, the jobs that left...never the person who commits the crime.  Never the person who doesn't maintain their property.  Never the person who doesn't watch after the kids.  Never the person who doesn't educate themselves beyond "low skilled manufacturing job".

 

Change starts within. 

Excuse me while I go hit the "Bring low skilled light manufacturing jobs button". You should see that happening any second now.

 

 

Hey, it would be a start.  At least you would be thinking about it instead of spending all your economic development staff's time, energy and budget chasing biotech jobs from Israel and fool's errand LED jobs from Asia.  You might start to look to Michigan, Wisconsin, even exurb Columbus manufacturing that needs to expand.  Look, I don't want to get suspended again so I will stop now.