So what kind of crime are we seeing on crimereports downtown when it says petty theft or theft? Also menacing?

wrong thread, sorry

<b>Cleveland: Man dies after shooting near nightclub, another injured</b>

 

CLEVELAND -- Cleveland Police are investigating a fatal shooting that occurred on Elm Street Sunday morning.

 

Officers arrived to the 2300 block of Elm Street, where they found two men with gunshot wounds. William Rodriguez, 28, of Cleveland was shot in the head and Nelson Battistini, of Cleveland suffered a gunshot wound in the back...

 

 

http://www.wkyc.com/news/local/news_article.aspx?storyid=172608&catid=3

How accurate is CrimeReports.com? It only shows 1 murder since the beginning of the year.

 

Also does the city release annual crime reports where you can see totals for all types of crimes?

Double shooting today on the west side, 33rd & Sackett, near Metrohealth.

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2011/02/police_in_standoff_after_two_p.html

Does anybody know how many Homicides there have been this year?

 

I got around 11 but I could be wrong. In 2009 there was 11 in January alone.

Holy crap was Public Square out of control yesterday.  What an embarassment.

I walked through it multiple times yesterday, it was certainly crowed with it fair share of drunkards, but I wouldn't call it embarrassing.

Were you there in the late afternoon? Trust me, the issue wasn't too much booze

http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/news/local_news/cleveland_metro/Fights-break-out-in-Public-Square-during-St-Patricks-Day-festivities

 

http://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-heard/archives/2011/03/18/arrests-down-madness-up-at-clevelands-2011-st-pats-parade

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2011/03/cleveland_police_arrest_35_at.html

Seems like it was mostly teenagers and unproportionally African American

 

I hope this doesnt hurt this event next year. The news really seems to be making a big deal about it though. Just wait till 19 action news reports,

"Downtown Cleveland on St. Patricks day or should we call it Baghdad?" followed up by,

"Cleveland, a St. Pattys War Zone?"

^ Sheesh. I was through from 6:00pm onward. Sounds awful.

As far as I understand, 3 pm was always a rough time for Tower City and these sorts of incidents (nearly always involving large amounts of school kids having idle time while waiting to transfer bus lines) are what pushed them to create the parent or guardian rule for the mall.

What a shame.  The one day that many of the suburbanites come downtown, and "they" still manage to ruin it for others. 

I wouldnt bring my little kid down with stuff like that going on (the one in the story).  I dont care what those of you on here as being not true or overblown.  This tells me otherwise.

"They"?..... c'mon man.  This ain't cleveland.com.

To the extent that "they" means gangs engaged in open warfare, it's a legitimate concern.

Then just say gangs, thugs, etc.  Using the term "they" (in quotes) implies that you want to say something which you know you shouldn't.  Further, I don't think "open warfare" is the right term to use.  It over-dramatizes what occured.  Further still, which "gangs" were involved.... or is that just an assumption?  Only minor injuries resulted.  No reports of gunplay or even any knives from what I heard/read.  If I had to guess, it probably wasn't much unlike the brawl I found myself in the middle of the one time I went to Mardi Gras..... or the one time I was tear gassed in Akron for being too close to a melee on Mayday.

 

And I talked to emergency responders who were down there right in the middle of this fiasco yesterday.... i.e. treating people while other fights broke out right in front of them.  They described it as a "clash of two cultures", which implied to me that the 'suburbanites' were not totally innocent, although the youth certainly were certainly the cause of more altercations.  They also said that the majority of the arrests yesterday were for public urination (no.... not by homeless people.... sorry to disappoint EC).

As far as I understand, 3 pm was always a rough time for Tower City and these sorts of incidents (nearly always involving large amounts of school kids having idle time while waiting to transfer bus lines) are what pushed them to create the parent or guardian rule for the mall.

 

This is true.  One of my friends commutes from Lakewood to UC on the rapid, and he specifically avoids going home in the 3:00 hour because the transit police routinely have to stop or at the very least board trains because of high schoolers fighting - most of whom board at Tower City.

 

Hmmm interesting Hts... I have a feeling no matter how it was said you would have found a way to spin it into being racist (since MTS isnt here to do that), and frankly I thought I was playing it safe by not being specific. 

 

Everything I have seen and everyone I have talked to indicates the fights were due to the black kids converging in fron tof Tower City.   

 

"The majority of those arrested were teenagers. Some molded their fingers into gang signs that they showed before, during and after the fights".

 

“The problem was, in a nutshell: The parade ended at the same time the Cleveland public school kids got off the RTA at Public Square,” says the cop, noting that most of the violence consisted of black schoolkids hammering one another."

 

Sounds like they were aresting the wrong people..  Public urination F#$& that...  Of course we all know they cant just arrest black kids in Cleveland without repercussions.   

 

 

 

 

I don't even know what the penalty is for public fighting between two minors. Repeated offenses get you sent to juvenile hall? Love how the city wouldn't pay for overtime.

Wow. I'm glad we took little RNR home before the parade was over.

^^it depends.  If it was 'mutual combat' without any serious injuries, they would likely get disorderly conduct, which is a misdemeanor, with the ultimate penalty varying depending on previous convictions.  If anyone is deemed responsible for the officer's broken ankle, they are sure to be charged with felonious assault on a police officer and will face jail time.  Of course, some unlucky soul might end up like my buddy who fought off 4 drunks in collinwood and was charged with a hate crime for 'racial intimidation'

 

^^^they don't arrest black kids in the city of cleveland?  Ever been to juve court?  Don't be silly, willy

In other glum news, last night (Thursday) at around 11:30pm at Shaker Square, there was a robber/shooting at the parking lot by Dave's.  One dead, one injured:(  My source is someone who works at Huron in East Cleveland--I haven't seen any reports of it on the 'net yet.

In other glum news, last night (Thursday) at around 11:30pm at Shaker Square, there was a robber/shooting at the parking lot by Dave's.  One dead, one injured:(  My source is someone who works at Huron in East Cleveland--I haven't seen any reports of it on the 'net yet.

 

Crapola... I live right by there.  Not for long though, I'm on my way back to Lakewood.  And no this incident isn't the reason.  But the area's downhill trajectory is evident.  So glad MTS isn't around right now...

I'm pretty sure the shooting occurred on 137th.  The guy who took one to the stomach drove off and was picked up by EMS elsewhere (maybe Dave's) and taken to Huron.

Could be the same.  But the shooting on 137th was south of Union Ave, and the guy ended up at a Shaker Hts police station, per channel 5.

It just sounds very similar.... and I think a shooting at Dave's would have got more pub

I've read some articles online where it talked about the East 127th & Rexford Avenue shooting, which isn't Dave's parking lot. All I can tell you is what the gunshot victim said to my friend at Huron, that the assault happened at the lot.

 

I do hope the guy was lying.

I am very curious to see why the cops were chasing these people.  This accident was LOUD (it sounded like a snowplow taking out a building from INSIDE my house) and it threw both cars (looks like a t-bone type accident) at least 50 feet.  I hope there are no fatalities, cause the smaller car looks to be in pretty bad shape from what I could see.

 

http://www.wkyc.com/news/article/182325/45/Cleveland--Police-chase-ends-at-East-13-and-Superior

I'm not sure if this post is in the appropriate thread, but I can tell you, this morning is a perfect example of why suburbanites like me don't want to come downtown in Cleveland.  From my parking lot to my building, the walk is about 2 blocks. In 2 blocks, I got pestered by 3 different homeless people asking me for money. One guy has been standing right outside my parking lot and watching people drive in and watching them get out of their cars, and then whatever way they start walking out of the lot, he walks over to them so he can ask for money as they exit the lot. This makes me really nervous - he is seeing my car and where I'm parking. If I dismiss him, is he going to do something to my car? And to be asked for money twice more, I mean, this is really, really annoying. It makes the walk to work really unpleasant and I just want to scream at these people to leave everyone alone and go the F away! Cup shaker here, parking lot stalker there, another one going, Miss, Miss, Miss, Miss, can I ask you a question? I mean, come ON.

 

When you add to that the state of the downtown parking lots this morning, you wonder what the F*CK went on downtown last night, it looks worse this morning than it did the day after St. Patrick's Day! I couldn't park where I usually do in my lot as there were several full and partially broken wine and beer bottles and smashed glass over many parking spaces, so I had to drive further into the lot to find a clean parking spot. Then, the lot I cut through to get to Ontario was also LITTERED with cans and bottles and a lot of broken glass, plus tons and tons of paper that looked like some kind of flyers advertising the club Lust and some Ladies Night thing. Plastic cups, hats, a broken high heel, a jacket, it just looked like sh*t.  I was thinking about the guy who parked in my lot a few weeks ago and asked me for help in figuring out what parking space to pay for because you have to pay for the numbered space you're in and the spaces were all covered by snow. He said he works for a large company in their suburban office but once every few months has to come downtown to work for the day, and I'm thinking, geez, if this guy were parking downtown today he'd probably be going, Thank God I don't have to come down to this hellhole every day.

 

This is the kind of morning that the suburbanites like me, who are the ones parking in these lots, experience on a regular basis and it really reflects poorly on downtown. People who behave this way and leave this kind of garbage around in the parking lots should be ashamed of themselves. There is obviously no civic pride or sense of responsibility of cleaning up after yourself, and the constant harassment every few feet by homeless people make it really unpleasant.

I irony of your tale, rockandroller, is that the homeless guys were the only true downtown residents as you tell it.  Most of the trash, bottles, cans and litter come from suburbanite kids who have no respect for downtown because "that's where the homeless guys live...."  They wouldn't dream of dropping their cans and bottle in mom and dad's cul de sac in Brunswick. 

 

It's a vicious cycle that only more educated professionals living downtown can solve. When you moving in?    :-)

^ZING!!!

I don't really think it's accurate to say for sure that the downtown homeless people are downtown residents, especially when I occasionally see some of them getting picked up in a car and driven away.

 

Maybe if downtown wasn't a Frogger game of dodging annoying beggars and ignoring lewd comments from people waiting for the bus, the suburbanite visitors wouldn't treat it like their trash dump.

I irony of your tale, rockandroller, is that the homeless guys were the only true downtown residents as you tell it. 

 

I didn't get that impression at all from her post.  The impression I got is downtown - as a busy entertainment district with Thursday nights being a busy night - was not properly cleaned up after.  Something I can understand and relate to given how poor Cleveland City Services are.

 

Most of the trash, bottles, cans and litter come from suburbanite kids who have no respect for downtown because "that's where the homeless guys live...."  They wouldn't dream of dropping their cans and bottle in mom and dad's cul de sac in Brunswick. 

 

It's a vicious cycle that only more educated professionals living downtown can solve. When you moving in?    :-)

 

The night club flyers are certainly not left by suburbanite kids.  Litter can come from all types of people, but typically you can tell from the litter itself who left it.

 

I agree it's a vicious cycle where if more educate professionals lived downtown it would be better.  But at the same time, as more educated professionals move downtown (and by all accounts they have) when is the city going to step up and do their part to ensure they stay there?  I haven't really seen any improvement from the city government and with my son approaching 6 months, I'm not going to wait around hoping it happens.

I'm not sure if this post is in the appropriate thread, but I can tell you, this morning is a perfect example of why suburbanites like me don't want to come downtown in Cleveland.  From my parking lot to my building, the walk is about 2 blocks. In 2 blocks, I got pestered by 3 different homeless people asking me for money. One guy has been standing right outside my parking lot and watching people drive in and watching them get out of their cars, and then whatever way they start walking out of the lot, he walks over to them so he can ask for money as they exit the lot. This makes me really nervous - he is seeing my car and where I'm parking. If I dismiss him, is he going to do something to my car? And to be asked for money twice more, I mean, this is really, really annoying. It makes the walk to work really unpleasant and I just want to scream at these people to leave everyone alone and go the F away! Cup shaker here, parking lot stalker there, another one going, Miss, Miss, Miss, Miss, can I ask you a question? I mean, come ON.

 

When you add to that the state of the downtown parking lots this morning, you wonder what the F*CK went on downtown last night, it looks worse this morning than it did the day after St. Patrick's Day! I couldn't park where I usually do in my lot as there were several full and partially broken wine and beer bottles and smashed glass over many parking spaces, so I had to drive further into the lot to find a clean parking spot. Then, the lot I cut through to get to Ontario was also LITTERED with cans and bottles and a lot of broken glass, plus tons and tons of paper that looked like some kind of flyers advertising the club Lust and some Ladies Night thing. Plastic cups, hats, a broken high heel, a jacket, it just looked like sh*t.  I was thinking about the guy who parked in my lot a few weeks ago and asked me for help in figuring out what parking space to pay for because you have to pay for the numbered space you're in and the spaces were all covered by snow. He said he works for a large company in their suburban office but once every few months has to come downtown to work for the day, and I'm thinking, geez, if this guy were parking downtown today he'd probably be going, Thank God I don't have to come down to this hellhole every day.

 

This is the kind of morning that the suburbanites like me, who are the ones parking in these lots, experience on a regular basis and it really reflects poorly on downtown. People who behave this way and leave this kind of garbage around in the parking lots should be ashamed of themselves. There is obviously no civic pride or sense of responsibility of cleaning up after yourself, and the constant harassment every few feet by homeless people make it really unpleasant.

 

So is your solution to shuffle all the homeless off to an internment camp?  Because that really sounds like what your getting at.  These people are bad->make them go away.  If you want to solve the problem have you made a nice donation to the Homeless Shelter of Cleveland or other charitable orgs that help the homeless get back on their feet.  Otherwise this post is worse than some on cleve.bomb

 

Also, I don't believe we should engineer the city for the suburbanite, too much of that has already happened.

I don't really think it's accurate to say for sure that the downtown homeless people are downtown residents, especially when I occasionally see some of them getting picked up in a car and driven away.

 

Maybe if downtown wasn't a Frogger game of dodging annoying beggars and ignoring lewd comments from people waiting for the bus, the suburbanite visitors wouldn't treat it like their trash dump.

 

Buuuuuuuuut that sh!t happens in all urban areas.  It's not a problem unique to Cleveland. 

 

I'm not saying it's not a problem, btw.

One of the main problems is absentee parking lot owners who don't show up until 10 AM to collect the money out of the box.  But that is supply and demand, the owner can make money while providing as little service as possible because people will still park there.

 

 

It's a problem. All of it is a problem, the panhandling, the bar crowd trashing things, absentee parking lot owners, business owners not cleaning up their area. It's not a problem uncommon in urban areas but it definately won't be getting better in Cleveland anytime soon with further budget cuts coming.

I have traveled a fair amount for work. I have never felt the level of harrassment from homeless in DC, NY, Atlanta that I do here. Maybe they are more aggressive or more plentiful here. Maybe it's because of the large lack of other people that would provide a buffer zone, I don't know, but it is a problem. It is expressed by visitor after visitor here and saying "there are homeless people everywhere" not only doesn't fix things, it doesn't focus on the uniqueness of the problem here.  There are about a bazillion homeless people in Santa Monica but when you walk alongside the ocean, you don't get harrassed every 50 feet. They're living there, they hang out there, whatever, but it's not a constant barrage of harrassment.

 

As we get more and more people coming downtown with things like the casino, including visitors from other states, this is a problem that needs to be addressed.  I should not have to get bothered by 3 different people on a 2 block walk, it's just unacceptable. all it makes me think is dang, I need to look harder for a job in the suburbs.

 

@tedders, I actually volunteer several times a year at the Cleveland Foodbank, and donate money to them as well.

I irony of your tale, rockandroller, is that the homeless guys were the only true downtown residents as you tell it.  Most of the trash, bottles, cans and litter come from suburbanite kids who have no respect for downtown because "that's where the homeless guys live...."  They wouldn't dream of dropping their cans and bottle in mom and dad's cul de sac in Brunswick. 

 

It's a vicious cycle that only more educated professionals living downtown can solve. When you moving in?    :-)

 

Are you kidding me????  You think suburbanite kids from Brunswick are the ones littering the city streets.  Suburbanite bashing really needs to end. 

 

As I have said before, we are raising our family out in Medina.  We have several friends our age that enjoy getting a break from the kids and going out.  Alot of our friends will say they are going out to dinner downtown, or going to a play or a game etc.  They really enjoy going downtown, and enjoy the fact that they live close enough to a big city to do that stuff.  The fact that we do not live right on top of downtown Cleveland doesn't mean we do not enjoy it or respect it. 

 

I have noticed most of the suburban bashers around NE Ohio are in an age group of about 55 to 75 years old.  They are the ones that can remember Cleveland as a safe clean and very vibrant city.  Seriously, look at Cleveland through their eyes.  It pales in comparison to their early childhood memories of Cleveland.  they see a town that fell apart throughout their coming of age.  All people in their 20's and 30's see Cleveland as a city that was a dump when they were kids, and a little progress here and there shows signs of hope. 

 

In any event, probably a little more respect for downtown Clevelands suburban patrons is due.  Looking at the numbers, it appears that only 1/15 of Clevelands metropolitan population is within the city limits, so I think the ever hated suburbanites are doing something for this town. 

Could DCA be dispatched to help w/the parking lots? I know there's something about "where" they're allowed to do things.

One thing I noticed too is I don't think the DCA ambassadors are doing a very good job keeping the streets and sidewalks clean. I see them when I'm walking around and some of them are barely moving. DCA also used to be proactive about keeping the beggars off the streets but lately it doesn't seem like it's a big priority.

Maybe it's because of the large lack of other people that would provide a buffer zone, I don't know, but it is a problem.

 

That could very well be a part of it.  There are a lot of other people for panhandlers to bug in NYC, Chicago, etc.

Agreed. Cleveland panhandlers are aggresive. It seem to get worse under the Campbell Admin and never got better. City hall and CPD just need to strictly enforce a no-panhandling zone around the CBD. Unfortunately I highly doubt the resources exist.

Could DCA be dispatched to help w/the parking lots? I know there's something about "where" they're allowed to do things.

 

They are not allowed to go on private property.

 

But, for the record, some of the clean ambassadors do spend a lot of their time just sauntering down the street with their trash cans.  I've been meaning to get in contact with Mark Lammon about this.

I too am tired of the answer to any complaints being "you're just a whiny, oversensitive suburbanite, get out and stay out."  I CARE about the city, do enjoy living in proximity to it as gotribe said, and worry about the impression this kind of thing leaves on visitors. I would think my description of the guy working for the bank who came downtown only occasionally would correctly illustrate what I am concerned about, along with my own frustration as a downtown worker. 

Maybe it's because of the large lack of other people that would provide a buffer zone, I don't know, but it is a problem.

 

That could very well be a part of it.  There are a lot of other people for panhandlers to bug in NYC, Chicago, etc.

 

Thats exactly it, as has been mentioned in the Public Square discusion.  Because DC certainly has many (and often aggressive) panhandlers, but there are so many poeple out and about here, and the sidewalks are so full that they dont necessarily stand out like they do in Cleveland.  The effect is diluted and your not such an open target.

Agreed. Cleveland panhandlers are aggresive. It seem to get worse under the Campbell Admin and never got better. City hall and CPD just need to strictly enforce a no-panhandling zone around the CBD. Unfortunately I highly doubt the resources exist.

 

There's a separate "downtown" division of CPD.  What exactly do they do?  Downtown's not that big, and the trouble spots for aggressive panhandling (Tower City, lower Euclid) are fairly well defined.  It seems at least feasible for them to address it.  But when I've reported aggressive panhandlers to CPD officers stationed at Tower City they basically didn't care.  "It's private property."  Yeah, so what.  And what do you think you're stationed here for. 

^ They should be busting panhandlers heads, figuratively speaking. Maybe not arresting them but making sure they will be detained and inconvienced for several hours, making it not worth their time.

Not to mention, if you can get up and be at a particular spot every morning by 7:30, why can't you GO GET A REAL JOB. I suppose some of these people have records that prevent them from getting certain kinds of jobs, but surely it can't be ALL homeless people.

Maybe it's because of the large lack of other people that would provide a buffer zone, I don't know, but it is a problem.

 

That could very well be a part of it.  There are a lot of other people for panhandlers to bug in NYC, Chicago, etc.

 

Thats exactly it, as has been mentioned in the Public Square discusion.  Because DC certainly has many (and often aggressive) panhandlers, but there are so many poeple out and about here, and the sidewalks are so full that they dont necessarily stand out like they do in Cleveland.  The effect is diluted and your not such an open target.

The problem with that is, in Cleveland, alot of the homeless will remember you, and target you.

 

I rememeber many way back when I was in high school, and took RTA home everynight, my Dad always told me not to give any money to the beggers.  He said they will remember you, and wait at your stop everyday at 4:10 for their quarter from you.  He was right about that.

 

Also, on a side note, I do remember sitting in the shelter on Ontario back in high school wating for my bus doing Chemistry homework (Stoichiometry).  A homeless guy laying on the ground under a blanket (it was a blizzard outside) got up and grabbed my book and my pencil from under my lap.  I asked him to give it back, and he didn't.  He sat down next to me, and an older guy said to him, "give the kid his book back."  He didn't.  He started to scribble on the piece of paper, and did so for about 2 or 3 minutes.  He put the paper back in the book, set it on my lap, and went back into hiding under the blanket in the corner of the shelter.  I opened it up, and to my amazement, he completed the stoichiometry assignemts on the page.  The older guy standing next to me goes, "its been a while for me, but did he do that right."  I said "he sure did."  I asked the guy who are you?  He peaked out from under his blanket and said, you may judge that book by it's cover, but don't judge me man.  He got up again and sat down next to me and said, 10 years ago, I was employed by Sohio as a chemist.  I had 3 kids, lived in Middleburg Heights with my wife and kids, and decided not to go home one day.  Dropping out of Society is what I wanted, and I have not been in it since.  he said he has lived on the streets for 10 years begging for money, and finding warm places to sleep. 

 

While it may have changed my perception on the homeless a bit, it does not change the ever growing problem in Cleveland.  As RnR said, we have several silver bullet projects opening up in the next 3 or so years, and this could really prove to be an obsticle for them.