Maybe it's because of the large lack of other people that would provide a buffer zone, I don't know, but it is a problem.

 

That could very well be a part of it.  There are a lot of other people for panhandlers to bug in NYC, Chicago, etc.

 

That's a great point.

 

Santa Monica is crowded all the time.

 

Here it can be desolate enough to be zeroed in on.

 

I sometimes get approached with the "Hey, can I ask you a question?" line from a block away.

Whatever the reason, it needs to be fixed somehow, not just say oh, there are homeless people everywhere.  The nature of the problem is particularly bad in our city because of the lack of "buffer zone" of thousands of other bodies, so we need to do something about it, not just say oh, those whiny suburbanites (and soon - visitors from other cities and other states), they're just oversensitive. Are we jsut going to tell all the out of town/state visitors that they're oversensitive and to get over it?

Not to mention, if you can get up and be at a particular spot every morning by 7:30, why can't you GO GET A REAL JOB.

 

Because there are more people than jobs!  Geez.  You have no idea what people have or have not done to try to get a job.  Who gave you the right to be Miss Judgemental?

 

The fact that many work so hard for such a small amount of money should tell you something about their ability to actually land a job and their willingness to work for money.

 

Also, panhandling is annoying, yes.  But every city has it (I've been begged much more in some other cities like Philadelphia and Baltimore than here) and it's been around for hundreds of years.  I think we need to be more worried about actual crime than annoying but harmless beggars.

I'm sorry, but there are almost ALWAYS jobs at places like fast food, or in warehouse and delivery drivers are always needed.  They don't want to get a job because why work if there are people who will give you money for doing nothing but standing around asking for it. 

It's not like I am the only person that thinks like this. Whatever the reason someone is homeless, people are going to be coming downtown here hopefully in droves and this is already a problem for many who visit here. It's been said and said and said by visitor after visitor, and something should be done about it before those big projects are completed.  I mean, the guy who just "checked out" on his family, why is he deserving of anyone's handouts? I think that is disgraceful.

I have a little trick I do when panhandlers approach me.  When the person asks for some spare change, I ask them how old they are.  When they tell me, I say no way man, I don't believe you.  You look alot younger than that.  Prove it.  About a year or so ago, it worked.  The guy pulled out a VALID drivers license that said he was 61.  No, he wasn't lying about his age, but he was lying about something else.  That is the only time that worked for me, but it makes you think how many of them actually are homeless.  For those that are, I do feel for them, and hopefully under their own peower they can get back on their feet. 

 

So this goes back to RnR's post, there are always jobs, and you have to wonder if some of them already have jobs, and thi sis their side business. 

Come on rock, you're being a little too judgmental of the homeless and panhandlers. Sure some are scam artists and "bad guys" for all intents and purposes - lord knows I have no patience for the aggressive ones - but what do you with the ones with mental illnesses, the ones who are too far gone in their addictions or other ailments to ever make it back to society, the ones who are too frightened to sleep in homeless shelters, the ones who have physical disabilities and cannot so easily work a conventional job, and so on.

 

I also think you're, you too gotribe, over emphasizing the ability of homeless, really anyone, to get jobs. Even positions like deliveries (which takes quite a bit skill if you think about it) and working at fast food requires a certain level of talent and bare essentials. Where will they get clean clothing for the interview? Who is there to help them obtain an interview in the first place? What about those who are just...too far gone?

 

It's a huge problem and laziness is not always the reason. The bad guys need to go, and they are little more than human feces IMO, but that's not all of them.  Especially in 2011 when we really are in the middle of class warfare, and they are often taking the brunt of the affects.

I'm sorry, but there are almost ALWAYS jobs at places like fast food, or in warehouse and delivery drivers are always needed.

 

Nobody is saying homeless people are all model citizens or worthy of free handouts at every turn, but to insinuate that they all could get a job simply by wanting a job is just ignorant.

It never ceases to amaze me how different people legitimately have consistently different experiences downtown.  There seems to be two separate groups.  I fall into the category of those who regularly walk all over downtown, witness very little crime, never been the victim of a violent crime (nor personally know anybody who has, outside of bar room scuffles), have relative success brushing off the occasional panhandler with a polite "no", and genuinely enjoy the experience.  Then there is this other group that can't seem to make it 10 feet without being pestered by some aggressive panhandler, getting caught up in open gang-warfare, and witnessing someone urinating or deficating in a fountain and/or on a lost puppy (right in front of a police officer, no less).  Doesn't make sense.  Maybe I just have a certain look that scares away all the homeless people, gang-banger, and public exibitionists.

 

I've said this before, but will repeat myself again.  Next time you see that guy coming RnR, ask him for a quarter before he can ask you.  You will catch him off-guard and probably even flatter him for asking.  It is sort of like asking a fat woman if she has lost weight, even though you know she hasn't.  He won't bother you again.

Sorry Hts, I don't think that's a very good idea. Some might feel patronized and mocked by that question, and rock might get further harassed, if not worse, by the guy.

 

Also Hts, I know exactly what you mean. I used to be an idiot a few years ago and, when hitting up W6 that night, going with a date to Mall area. With virtually no one else around. At 11pm. And nothing ever happened.

 

Plus there was this one time when I left Silk (next to Shooters) completely trashed, in costume from a Halloween party, and tried to walk back all the way to Lorain/26 to my car. I know, stupid right? I got completely lost, had ditched my entire party I was with (no one knew I had left, I imagine), and got lost in the ghetto.  And what happened? A car drove by me, then backed up, I got ready to be mugged...and out walked a really nice couple - white guy, indian girl, both doctors it turned out - who asked if i needed help. They were pretty concerned about my being there and drove me to my car in Ohio City.

 

Just one of those things - that night could have ended very differently. I've had a few other close calls - two guys tried to mug me once in Baltimore but I had my phone with me and started dictating exactly what was happening on the phone; another guy once approached my car but I had a knife on me; once my dad and I were almost mugged in Toronto, but we walked by a police car and stayed there until the bad guys went on their way (that was by far the scariest moment of all 3)....but overall I've been damn lucky, and I know too many people who haven't.

Im like you Hts121 in which I walk all over downtown without almost any problems. Never see any crimes. Dont actually see a large homeless population, and hardly ever panhandled. When I do get I asked for money I just give a quick "sorry man" and keep walking and never have any problems. It is funny how certain people are prone to the panhandling lol. Maybe its worse for women?

Sorry Hts, I don't think that's a very good idea. Some might feel patronized and mocked by that question, and rock might get further harassed, if not worse, by the guy.

 

Give it a test run.  Never failed for me.

Im like you Hts121 in which I walk all over downtown without almost any problems. Never see any crimes. Dont actually see a large homeless population, and hardly ever panhandled. When I do get I asked for money I just give a quick "sorry man" and keep walking and never have any problems. It is funny how certain people are prone to the panhandling lol. Maybe its worse for women?

 

Ditto here.  If you just brush off the homeless person with a "no" and don't make a big deal of it and act like you've done it a million times before, 999 times out of 1,000 they will give up and just walk away, seeing you aren't going to give them anything.

There are some guys downtown for whom no isn't good enough, and for whom a flippant response is the wrong kind of invitation. 

 

This is a job for our safety forces.  In fact, it's a job they already have.

Dont stare at them either, that helps. Just walk right past without making eye contact. Dont make it too obvious though lol, its pretty simple. Treat them like a new yorker would treat anyone else ;) lol

Also maybe I dont experience it as much because im not out as much during "prime" panhandling hours. I walk around all throughout the day, but hardly am out for long during ball games and other sporting events/concerts when panhandling is at its worst.

It never ceases to amaze me how different people legitimately have consistently different experiences downtown.  There seems to be two separate groups.  I fall into the category of those who regularly walk all over downtown, witness very little crime, never been the victim of a violent crime (nor personally know anybody who has, outside of bar room scuffles), have relative success brushing off the occasional panhandler with a polite "no", and genuinely enjoy the experience.  Then there is this other group that can't seem to make it 10 feet without being pestered by some aggressive panhandler, getting caught up in open gang-warfare, and witnessing someone urinating or deficating in a fountain and/or on a lost puppy (right in front of a police officer, no less).  Doesn't make sense.  Maybe I just have a certain look that scares away all the homeless people, gang-banger, and public exibitionists.

 

I've said this before, but will repeat myself again.  Next time you see that guy coming RnR, ask him for a quarter before he can ask you.  You will catch him off-guard and probably even flatter him for asking.  It is sort of like asking a fat woman if she has lost weight, even though you know she hasn't.  He won't bother you again.

 

I agree man...I'm downtown just about ever freaking day....I've never seen any issues (outside of brown's games and St patty's day).  some people are just drama queens.  Sh!T happens EVERYWHERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you don't like downtown that's fine....get a different job. 

Oh wait nevermind you want the homeless to all get jobs.  got it.

I haven't noticed a big increase in panhandling downtown, but last year I recall seeing sandwich board type signs around downtown about not helping out.  It had some sort of catchphrase like "thanks but no thanks" or something but basically said not to give to panhandlers.  Anyone else recall those signs around E. 4th area and others?  What happened to them this year?

The yellow boxes are still downtown I believe.  The money you put in there go towards the homeless cause.  Quite a few times I have told a panhandler that "I already put my change in the yellow box"

 

To be fair to RnR, I did once suffer an act of vegeance from a panhandler I turned down.  He slashed my tires.  But it wasn't a homeless guy.  It was some redneck who was drunk and coming out of the bar I was walking into.  The guy asked me for "3 bucks".  I gave him the "you gotta be f'in kidding me look" and when I came out of the bar an hour later, all four of my tires were flat.  F#cker.  I would have paid money to run into that guy again.  Don't ever, ever touch a man's car.  But that didn't happen downtown.  It wasn't even in Cleveland.  I was living in NC at the time.

It never ceases to amaze me how different people legitimately have consistently different experiences downtown.  There seems to be two separate groups.  I fall into the category of those who regularly walk all over downtown, witness very little crime, never been the victim of a violent crime (nor personally know anybody who has, outside of bar room scuffles), have relative success brushing off the occasional panhandler with a polite "no", and genuinely enjoy the experience.  Then there is this other group that can't seem to make it 10 feet without being pestered by some aggressive panhandler, getting caught up in open gang-warfare, and witnessing someone urinating or deficating in a fountain and/or on a lost puppy (right in front of a police officer, no less).  Doesn't make sense.  Maybe I just have a certain look that scares away all the homeless people, gang-banger, and public exibitionists.

 

I've said this before, but will repeat myself again.  Next time you see that guy coming RnR, ask him for a quarter before he can ask you.  You will catch him off-guard and probably even flatter him for asking.  It is sort of like asking a fat woman if she has lost weight, even though you know she hasn't.  He won't bother you again.

 

I agree man...I'm downtown just about ever freaking day....I've never seen any issues (outside of brown's games and St patty's day).  some people are just drama queens.  Sh!T happens EVERYWHERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you don't like downtown that's fine....get a different job. 

 

Ok downtown resident here so dont get your pantys in a bunch.... The notion that this happens 'everywhere' is garbage. It may happen in other large urban area's but it doesn't happen in the suburbs. That is what you guys are failing to understand here. This isn't a city vs city thing....its a city vs suburb thing. Cleveland perception from those who live outside its borders is awful and we should be doing everything we possibly can to change that, especially considering our latest census numbers and the current state of e.9th st.

^ I do agree with that. Clevelands perception by a lot of suburbanites is horrible! Its pathetic. Like it or now, these are the people who are this regions future. We need to get that perception changed.

I live around Shaker Square and it's more common there than it once was.  Especially toward Buckeye.  Last night there was a guy demanding that I sell him a cigarette, and my ignoring him only served to upset him further.

 

I've also encountered more of this on Coventry recently.  Trends not positive.  Agree with the last couple posters that we need to address this head-on.  Can't attract much investment or growth when we're projecting lawlessness, desparation and despair.

Ok downtown resident here so dont get your pantys in a bunch.... The notion that this happens 'everywhere' is garbage. It may happen in other large urban area's but it doesn't happen in the suburbs. That is what you guys are failing to understand here. This isn't a city vs city thing....its a city vs suburb thing. Cleveland perception from those who live outside its borders is awful and we should be doing everything we possibly can to change that, especially considering our latest census numbers and the current state of e.9th st.

 

But what can we do?  The world has poor people and homeless people.  We can't all live in a bubble and hide from them, and we also can't put a bubble around the city of Cleveland (which is effectively what the suburbs do with their auto-centric, pedestrian unfriendly development).

^  the apartment complex for the chronically homeless should help some, but more importantly the city, especially the central business district, needs to take an aggressive anti-panhandling stance.

 

http://www.ci.minneapolis.mn.us/police/crime-reporting/AggressivePanhandling.asp

 

Nobody is saying we round up the homeless in vans (although I did use to watch CPD do that at Goodale Park in Columbus early mornings in the summer when I lived down there, hopefully they were just being dropped off at the nearby shelter) but rather to institute a policy and culture where aggresive Panhandling isn't tolerated. Honestly we are probably just talking about less than a dozen individuals downtown but these same people harass countless people while doing tons of damage in peception. 

Cincinnati licenses panhandlers.  Violate the rules, lose the license. 

 

It all comes down to safety forces choosing to perform the job they're paid to do.  We have plenty of police for this task, and they even have a freaking horse stable at their disposal.  In case they need to break a line of pikemen. 

Just to clarify, I am not saying ALL homeless people can get a job if they really want one, snap, crackle and pop. But I do firmly believe there are people panhandling who probably aren't even homeless and who just don't want to work. And I maintain that if you can be dressed up every day on the corner at 7:30 a.m. in clothes that fit and shoes that look decent, you could be working instead of panhandling. I think some people are doing it as some kind of replacement for a job. I'm not saying ALL homeless people. I'm not talking about people with obvious mental problems. And if you have an addiction, why it ok to bother people walking through downtown so you can get money to feed your addiction.  As a PP said, there are really a relatively small number of total people but they are doing massive harm to the perception by visitors to downtown, whether they are daily "visitors" like me coming in to go to work or people from out of town.

 

And duh, I do ignore them, I don't look anyone in the eye on the street. It's not like I skip up to them like a happy puppy going oh hi do you want to talk to me about something? whee!  As I described previously, the guy WATCHING PEOPLE PARK IN MY PARKING LOT watches you get out of your car and then sees which way you are heading and heads you off as you exit the lot. And if I say something bad to him, or I ignore him and he doesn't like it, or just say sorry and he thinks I'm some bitch for not giving him money, he could do something to my car. Or he could have someone waiting for me under my car when I come out at night. These are real possibilities and maybe as a woman I do feel more of a victim, but it makes me really uncomfortable that someone is watching you come in so they know which car you're in and where you are parking, and then approaching you for money. How do you know what action is going to prompt him to do something to your vehicle?

"Downtown Homeless Man's Accomplice Lies in Wait and then Attacks Woman from Unerneath Her Own Car"

 

The PD would have a field day with that one....

I'm not sure if you were trying to be funny there and I just didn't get it, but a lot of attacks do happen in parking lots, whether the guy would be under the car or watching from behind another car close by or whatever, it happens all the time.

Has it ever happened in downtown cleveland?  I remember there was an attack at csu about 10 years ago, but I don't recall the story being that he came from under the car.  It definitely wasn't motivated by the victim refusing to give the guy money earlier that morning.

 

In fact, let's look at the odds here.  Let's assume that an average of 100 people per day are 'victims' of panhandling downtown (that would be on the extreme low end).  Extrapolate that to 36500 per year and 365000 every 10 years.  Now go see how many examples you can find of assaults on suburbanites by these panhandlers for refusing to give into their demands.  The fact is that the panhandlers are a nuisance, not a material risk to your safety.

I do not have access to a database of cleveland crime history. Perhaps those that do can answer.

Has it ever happened in downtown cleveland?

 

But the point is that it could happen.  Just like a 50 foot crevice could open on I-71 and swallow your car on the drive in to downtown.

You can't seriously tell me that there is so little crime happening in downtown that something like this is inconceivable enough that you can make fun of me for mentioning it. Seriously? We're not even a week from the 35 arrests at the St Paddy's Day parade.

All caused by homeless people hiding under cars no doubt.

 

I do not have access to a database of cleveland crime history. Perhaps those that do can answer.

 

But you do have access to google.  Do you honestly believe the PD (which does review the crime reports) would have allowed such a story go without plastering it all over the front page with a follow up series on downtown safety?  Really?

I don't read the PD so I wouldn't know what they cover and don't cover. I don't think that google would yield actual crime statistics.

Has it ever happened in downtown cleveland?  I remember there was an attack at csu about 10 years ago, but I don't recall the story being that he came from under the car.  It definitely wasn't motivated by the victim refusing to give the guy money earlier that morning.

 

In fact, let's look at the odds here.  Let's assume that an average of 100 people per day are 'victims' of panhandling downtown (that would be on the extreme low end).  Extrapolate that to 36500 per year and 365000 every 10 years.  Now go see how many examples you can find of assaults on suburbanites by these panhandlers for refusing to give into their demands.  The fact is that the panhandlers are a nuisance, not a material risk to your safety.

 

Harassment and menacing go beyond nuisance-level problems.  And they alone, without a single instance of assault/battery, are enough to severely curtail business downtown.

Does the presence of homeless people severely damage business interests?  Sure.  Who is arguing that?  I'm asking about legitimate (not merely percieved) safety concerns.

 

That said, harrasment and menacing are subjective.  I've personally never experienced it downtown from a panhandler.  I witnessed it one time on 4th Street when there was a guy bothering a family eating at one of the tables out on the patio.  But I said something to the guy and he left.  That's the only time I can honeslty say that I even witnessed anything I would describe as menacing or harrassing from a downtown panhandler.

Panhandling can be a serious nuisance to businesses and their workforce without being criminal you guys....

Has it ever happened in downtown cleveland?

 

But the point is that it could happen.  Just like a 50 foot crevice could open on I-71 and swallow your car on the drive in to downtown.

 

That actually happened on East 79th yesterday, but it was only 6 feet deep.

 

In any event, RnR is just saying that she frequently gets bothered by panhandlers, end of story.  She does not feel comfortable getting bothered by panhandlers, and she wishes the city would be more proactive on getting more of them off the streets. 

 

If you find it hard to believe that she gets bothered by them on a daily basis, then you must not be living in the same city.  Like I aid ,I love Cleveland, but panhandlers are a problem.

 

Also, you basically have asked her to brush them off by making comments back to them like "can I have a quarter".  Believe it or not, alot of people, especially defenseless women who are commonly approached by them are afraid of them, and the consequences of not giving them money.  Again, if you do not understand that, I do not even know why we are having this conversation.

Did anybody say that panhandlers are not a problem?  I don't get how that notion gets raised everytime we discuss this issue in the various threads it constantly comes up.

 

Here.... I will try to be helpful.  RnR, if the guy is withing 10 feet of the garage/lot entrance, then he is violating the anti-panhandling ordinance.  Treat it like you would any other crime you are the victim of.  Call the cops and make clear you want to file a complaint.  More importantly, follow up to make sure the police did their job.  Request a copy of the report, etc.

This has got me thinking. Im going to do a study by walking through the city throughout the day and I will record where and when I got asked for money and the response from the panhandler.

Do one day with me and one day with 327 and you are going to get VASTLY different results.  Make sure to wear your bullet proof vest on 327's day (sarcasm intended) (sorry for you being the target 327, but you have thicker skin than the rest of the Debbie Downers :)).

Mm yeah, well the last time I called the police for a problem downtown, they never came, and I waited for 2 hours and called 3 times. This is when my car window was smashed in. They finally told me that I had to sit on the broken glass and drive my car to the police station if I wanted a report, which is what I did, but you know, this is not conducive to me them ever calling them for anything again. If they can't even respond to a car break in with window smash and items stolen, I highly doubt anyone is coming to chase off a panhandler who will then just reappear after they leave.

 

The guy is standing just about 10 feet from the entrance by the way, so it's moot. If you try to exit another way so you aren't passing by him, he walks to where you are exiting to approach you. Today I actually walked out the south entrance of the lot which is completely out of my way, went down Superior and then cut through the last bit of the (digusting mess of a) parking lot across from John Qs just to avoid that particular guy, only to be confronted by 2 others on my journey, including a guy on Superior at the bus stop and the cup-shaker in front of Old Stone Church.

Did anybody say that panhandlers are not a problem?  I don't get how that notion gets raised everytime we discuss this issue in the various threads it constantly comes up.

 

Here.... I will try to be helpful.  RnR, if the guy is withing 10 feet of the garage/lot entrance, then he is violating the anti-panhandling ordinance.  Treat it like you would any other crime you are the victim of.  Call the cops and make clear you want to file a complaint.  More importantly, follow up to make sure the police did their job.  Request a copy of the report, etc.

 

And you honestly think that the police will respond to her panhandler call.  Hence the problem with panhandlers.

 

And you basically did say we really don't have a problem a couple pages back when you said other peoples experiences downtown are vastly different then yours. 

 

And no, we are not Debbie Downers as we clearly stated we do like Cleveland.  We are just pointing out a simple fact that panhandlers seem to be more prevelent in Cleveland then other places we have been.  Sometimes instead of over cheerleading for Cleveland, you need to recognize problems arising.  That does not mean you do not like Cleveland.

Seriously man, let me speak for myself.  Yes, people do apparently have vastly different experiences.  I was talking about CRIME AND SAFETY (see thread topic), which I have experienced/witnessed very little of downtown, especially from the withered old drunk in his worn out hand-me-down jacket.  I never said there weren't panhandlers downtown or that they weren't a problem as far as your average suburbanite's perception of downtown goes.  Let's just make that clear once and for all, mmmmkay.

 

And, yes, if the police recieve a call that a female is scared that a panhandler's accomplice is hiding underneath her car waiting to attack, they will show.  For somebody simply violating the 10 foot zone, you may very well have to go fill out a report.  It's worth the effort to see what happens... especially if this guy is there everyday scaring people like RnR who are on their way to work.

Cant you also call for a DCA escort?

I repeat: The guy is standing just about 10 feet from the entrance by the way, so it's moot.

I do call for a DCA escort if I leave when it's late and dark and I expect there could be trouble. If it's light and I can see under the car, it's less of an issue. I was going to call for one last night as I had to walk from Greenhouse Tavern back to my parking lot, but in the end my dining companion gave me a ride, but she said she would wait til I was in my car with the doors locked and car started and on my way before she would leave, "just to make sure I was safe." Many women do not feel safe downtown here. The panhandling problem, whether a perceived or real threat to safety, exacerbates that. I can tell you, most of my elevator cars are filled with women going to work. The vast majority of my fellow redline riders when I took the train were women. Our opinions shouldn't be discounted.