June 3, 201114 yr "The scary thing about the story is there are people walking around the warehouse district with guns most likely doing drug deals. That is the kind of stuff people simply do not want to be around. " This is 100% the point.
June 3, 201114 yr Well, I for one look forward to seeing George Forbes and his pals standing outside this club chastising the community for the shootings.
June 3, 201114 yr If we had Canada's gun laws this event would have been a fist fight (like the 2-3 that happened every day when school let out in my day) and would not even have made the news.
June 3, 201114 yr On a similar note... Police Cutbacks Could Leave Downtown Unguarded By Day Posted by Kyle Swenson on Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 12:04 PM Perhaps you’ve heard the one about how these are dark times for Ohio’s public employees? Now Cleveland Police may be supplying a new punch line. Eighty-one patrol officers were laid off this week, the indirect result of Governor John Kasich’s scalpel work with municipal budgets. Insiders say top brass have yet to work out how the department will reorganize, but at least one proposal working through the ranks could seriously affect downtown businesses that don’t butter their bread by cover of night. According to sources close to Cleveland Police, the department could soon reassign its downtown units to the night shift. That means the city would have a police presence from 8 p.m. to 4 a.m. — the better to ensure that there are enough cops to referee downtown hot spots like West Sixth and East Fourth. http://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-heard/archives/2011/06/01/police-cutbacks-could-leave-downtown-unguarded-by-day
June 3, 201114 yr People will go nuts over this. Its unfortunate but its nothing crazy. The main thing with crimes like this(and a lot of crime in Cleveland) is that its things that will never happen to the average person. Random crimes are scary, but not what the majority of crime in Cleveland is. Im never going to get shot/stabbed selling/buying drugs. Im never going to get in some fight at a nightclub/bar. So when I hear crimes like that I dont get scared like a lot of people do, because although they happened, I know they have no chance of happening to me. Now if the crime was someone walking down the street and randomly got shot and wallet stolen, I would be more afraid. I agree with you completely. It's no secret that the human brain is not so good at translating information (e.g., news) into reasonable assessments of risk and then honestly diagnosing their own personal tolerance for risk, but it never hurts to try.
June 3, 201114 yr I wish one of our elected officials or someone in a position of authority would take a tough stand against crime. It would go a long way to show residents, workers, and visitors that Cleveland is taking a proactive approach to dealing with crime. Step one would be increasing police patrol and presence, not cutting it back. For that, I would point the finger at the State more than the City. Regardless, I am not sure what you mean by 'take a tough stand against crime.' I don't know how much the City can do about that. The laws that punish these types of crimes are state laws, not city laws. The prosecutors and judges are county officials, totally seperate from the City. The City did try and take a tough stand against guns and the State fought it tooth and nail, eventually winning the litigation. Point being, the City's authority in dealing with crime is pretty much limited to policing the crime, and that is becoming an increasingly difficult task since the police (and their fellow public employees) are now the bad guys.... the drain on society.... the scum of the earth. I do agree with the sentiment that this is an unfortunate, yet somewhat unavoidable, consequence of having downtown as such a vibrant night spot. Lots of alchohol and large crowds almost inevitably lead to violence. I hope this is just an isolated incident and does not form a pattern. Has anybody been shot downtown since the perk park incident where the clinic employees were shot trying to buy drugs?
June 3, 201114 yr If we had Canada's gun laws this event would have been a fist fight (like the 2-3 that happened every day when school let out in my day) and would not even have made the news. While I get the point you're making, I'm not so sure it's comparable. I mean, it's one thing to want to punch someone, as in a fist fight at school. But you point a gun at someone, and fire...you don't want to fight that guy, you want to kill that guy. I think the statistics show that even if you take away the gun crimes, there is just always going to be more** murderous violence in the U.S. than in Canada. ** a higher rate of
June 3, 201114 yr I mean, it's one thing to want to punch someone, as in a fist fight at school. But you point a gun at someone, and fire...you don't want to fight that guy, you want to kill that guy. I think it's more a fit of rage than a conscious decision to want to kill the guy. If people get a fit of rage and have only their fists, they will punch hard and ruthlessly and that could be very dangerous as well. If they get a fit of rage and have a gun on them, they may pull it out and use it, even if they later regret doing so. The problem with the gun over other types of rage is that it's much more dangerous to innocent bystanders as well (and easier for the person in rage to make a terrible mistake with). Of course, this doesn't apply to more premeditated situations, but that doesn't sound like what this was.
June 3, 201114 yr I don't think it's true that these fights are unavoidable. A large part of the problem is the "afterhours parking lot party" scene that pops up outside of certain clubs. Make the parking lot owners responsible for maintaining order on their property with security, just like a bar or club owner would be.
June 5, 201114 yr Here is a news clip of the incident. http://www.wkyc.com/news/article/192501/45/Downtown-Cleveland-shooting-outside-controversial-nightclub
June 15, 201113 yr Something like this would be really nice to prevent a repeat from last year's W6 fiasco. http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2011/06/14/baltimore-opens-city-curfew-center/ Baltimore Opens City Curfew Center "BALTIMORE (WJZ) — Baltimore City officials are collaborating to keep teens off the streets and out of trouble this summer.... Children under the age of 17 are not allowed out without an adult after midnight on weekends and after 11 p.m. on weeknights,” said Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake...Teens caught violating the law will come to the Curfew Center on North Avenue. "
July 22, 201113 yr A little blurb in a broader PD article on recent city council actions - http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2011/07/cleveland_considers_domestic-p.html The council also banned use of social media to summon unruly "flash mobs." Violations of the new law will constitute a minor misdemeanor, punishable by a fine of up to $100 on the first offense. The penalty would be in addition to sentences for disorderly conduct or other crimes. Reed made the proposal after recent disturbances in Cleveland Heights and Shaker Heights. Reed said he wanted to head off trouble at summer festivals in Cleveland. Whenever someone decides to present a legal challenge on these new laws, that is going to present some VERY interesting issues for a court to decide. I agree with the purpose/intent, but I am not sure that these ordinances will withstand a constitutional challenge. Plus, who gets to decide whether a 'flash' mob is 'unruly'? Certainly, the Philly and Chicago flash mobs you can see on youtube would qualify. But what about the ALF-CIO flash mob that recently hit walmart with a marching band?
July 22, 201113 yr Anthony Sowell has been convicted of aggravated murder in the death of 11 women... http://www.cleveland.com/anthony-sowell/index.ssf/2011/07/anthony_sowell_convicted.html
July 23, 201113 yr Anthony Sowell has been convicted of aggravated murder in the death of 11 women... http://www.cleveland.com/anthony-sowell/index.ssf/2011/07/anthony_sowell_convicted.html That's not really a surprise, but I wonder what ever came of the insanity plea attempt? Also weren't there members of the victims' families that didn't want to see him get the death penalty?
July 27, 201113 yr Yikes, this is right by a Cookie and a Cupcake I think. Man found dead, tied up in Tremont neighborhood http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2011/07/man_found_dead_tied_up_in_trem.html
July 27, 201113 yr ^ 19 action news is saying cash and marijuana involved. Once again, drugs can get you in big trouble. In Cleveland, in Mexico, in California.
July 27, 201113 yr And I'm sure all the media will "remember" long term is a murder victim. not to mention the Cleveland.bomb haters and those that don't visit the city and see this as another crime.
July 27, 201113 yr Domestic or random, there is still someone loose who is capable of killing another human being. I feel bad for the close knit Tremont community that has to deal with that. This news is so damn frustrating. Furthermore, the attempted abductor at the Edgewater tunnel is still loose after they released the latest suspect today. I just dont have any answers. Hopin' it stops
July 27, 201113 yr Jesus guys, the fact that it was a drug deal gone wrong - maybe - does NOT make the crime any less horrific or the neighborhood less affected. Is a random killing really that much "worse' than an intentional one, especially in a place like Tremont? Do you think the next door neighbors or kids across the street really feel less unsafe or unsettled knowing the bad guy and the decedent may have had criminal dealings? Christ.
July 27, 201113 yr ^Yes, a random killing is MUCH worse than an intentional, targeted killing. It makes people feel better if there's a reason for the murder (not that there's ever a good reason) that they can wrap their heads around (like a drug deal gone bad). Someone getting shot on Public Square in the middle of the day because someone needed $5 is much more unsettling than a drug dealer getting shot in his home during a presumed robbery. One is going to make people not want to leave their homes, the other is not.
July 27, 201113 yr I couldn't agree more Hootenany. BD1, this world is chock full of people capable of killing if enough money and/or drugs are involved. Someone died and that is horrible but IF you are dealing drugs, that's one of the huge chances one takes.
July 27, 201113 yr You and I are definitely going to disagree on that one, especially since it's completely unproven in this case thus far, and I don't care for this dehumanizing the victims. It reminds me of those two doctors, really they were kids, at Perk Place and people saying, "Oh, it could have been worse; after all, they were trying to buy drugs," or some garbage that I guess makes people feel less bad about the crime. Do you really feel better or not as bad that the Perk Place kids were trying to buy drugs? Does that really change the situation and how it affects everyone involved including their families and friends? Is it less shocking or scary or depressing that way?/
July 27, 201113 yr I think "worse" is the wrong word. Random crimes are certainly more threatening though, because they imply that crime is harder to avoid through your own behavior. The NYTimes a couple years back looked in detail at all 500 or so homicides in NYC that year and estimated that an astonishingly low number, something like, 30, were truly random. Doesn't make the crimes less sad, but it reinforced just how safe the city is for people who (1) aren't in abusive romantic relationships, (2) aren't in gangs, and (3) aren't in the narcotics trade.
July 27, 201113 yr Jesus guys, the fact that it was a drug deal gone wrong - maybe - does NOT make the crime any less horrific or the neighborhood less affected. Is a random killing really that much "worse' than an intentional one, especially in a place like Tremont? Do you think the next door neighbors or kids across the street really feel less unsafe or unsettled knowing the bad guy and the decedent may have had criminal dealings? Christ. OH for the love of Christ! There is a deeper rooted problem, why did the apartment building manager or home owner not know there was a spike in electric service? This - and im generalizing - sounds like a killing of opportunity. The person was doing wrong and made a bad decision and drugs always lead to trouble. I wouldn't think my neighborhood was less safe, just that there is a person out there who chose to do something bad to a person in my neighborhood. This is when you see the true mean of "neighbor" and "neighborhood". The residents will be more vigilant the business community will come out to show that this area is "safe" and people shouldn't be worried, yet remain cautious as one should in any community. This Debbie Downer/Fraidy cat crap has got to stop!
July 28, 201113 yr The kid made some bad decisions. Period. Everyone is making the case for his character, but why did a college kid have drug growing paraphernalia in his apartment? Based on what I've read he wasn't a good neighbor or citizen.
July 28, 201113 yr I think everyone is making some big assumptions here. Wait for details. That is why I said, "based on what I've read".
July 28, 201113 yr For some slightly cheerier crime news (seriously), I enjoyed this piece: Madison Avenue merchants in Cleveland fight and solve crime with electronic eyes http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2011/07/madison_avenue_merchants_fight.html
July 28, 201113 yr ^Michael Steele has fallen on hard times, apparently. He ribbled that stibble like a bibble on a dribble! Too esoteric?
July 28, 201113 yr ^Michael Steele has fallen on hard times, apparently. He ribbled that stibble like a bibble on a dribble! Too esoteric? chile...I'm just going to pray for you! You are too damn much!
July 28, 201113 yr hibbled that bibble like a jibble on the dribble Jon Stewart references are always appreciated.
July 28, 201113 yr MTS, Electric service is usually handled by the tenant even in old buildings, so the landlord would of had no idea. I was out of town so I haven't had a chance to read up on this yet, besides what was in this thread. Also, this may be an OU thing, but I knew several people that had grow lights and the such while I was in college. OSU isn't exactly squeaky clean so I can't imagine you are so shocked by this.
July 29, 201113 yr MTS, Electric service is usually handled by the tenant even in old buildings, so the landlord would of had no idea. I was out of town so I haven't had a chance to read up on this yet, besides what was in this thread. Also, this may be an OU thing, but I knew several people that had grow lights and the such while I was in college. OSU isn't exactly squeaky clean so I can't imagine you are so shocked by this. i agree that the service is paid by the tenant, but the landlord may know overall use and could possibly see a spike in service to the building/unit. I think there had to be signs. The tenant was using drugs and/or selling drugs. I'm also going to guess, had visitor that used or sold as well, that remains to be verified. No matter how you spin it, there was a criminal/illegal element in the unit/building and to me that is not a good tenant or citizen!
July 29, 201113 yr Plenty of good citizens grow and/or smoke pot. It's the jay-walkers that need to be quartered.
July 29, 201113 yr Plenty of good citizens grow and/or smoke pot. It's the jay-walkers that need to be quartered. As a non drug user, I do not agree. As a Jay Walker....watch where you're driving bitch! LOL
August 1, 201113 yr No comment, other than this is a complete downer. http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2011/07/shooting_at_luke_easter_park_-.html Shooting kills one, injures three after George Clinton concert at Luke Easter Park in Cleveland Published: Sunday, July 31, 2011, 10:14 AM Updated: Sunday, July 31, 2011, 3:26 PM Plain Dealer staff and wire reports By Plain Dealer staff and wire reports UPDATE: The 16-year-old died this morning. CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Four people -- two boys, a man and a woman -- were shot Saturday night at about 10 p.m. at Luke Easter Park during the eighth annual Unity in the Park festival. All of the wounded are being treated at MetroHealth Medical Center, said police Sgt. Sammy Morris. A spokeswoman at Cleveland's Emergency Medical Services reported that two of the people shot are in critical condition. Two others were stable. Authorities said they were searching for a male suspect who pulled out a handgun and fired into a group of people during the fight. No arrests were reported in the hours after the shooting, Morris told the Associated Press. "It was a large fight. Somebody in the crowd produced a handgun and fired several times," Morris said, adding all four victims were hit by gunfire.
August 1, 201113 yr ^ This is really sad. Hopefully the community can rally around this tragic event and change for the better
August 1, 201113 yr It really sucks that one or two bad apples can ruin things for thousands, further hurt the perception of the area to millions, cause 3 people to be injured and one person to lose their life. Sad.
August 1, 201113 yr This story made it to TMZ. Awesome (sarcastic voice). Fark and drudge also reported it Super. I was happy that we made it through the 4th of July without incident. Now this.
August 1, 201113 yr ^ This is really sad. Hopefully the community can rally around this tragic event and change for the better Unfortunately, thats what the event was supposed to be about... Sad indeed.
August 1, 201113 yr It really sucks that one or two bad apples can ruin things for thousands, further hurt the perception of the area to millions, cause 3 people to be injured and one person to lose their life. Sad. Agreed! These people should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. This is a family event. It sickens me! This story made it to TMZ. Awesome (sarcastic voice). I know. UGH (and I'm not happy about it)
August 1, 201113 yr This story made it to TMZ. Awesome (sarcastic voice). I know. UGH (and I'm not happy about it) Whip your people into shape! Come on now. Send one of those paps over here to do a story when they start filming The Avengers.
August 1, 201113 yr This story made it to TMZ. Awesome (sarcastic voice). I know. UGH (and I'm not happy about it) Whip your people into shape! Come on now. Send one of those paps over here to do a story when they start filming The Avengers. If only it were that easy!
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