Yesterday when I was downtown before the Browns game looking for a place to eat, we saw a police officer with his lights on out of his car talking to a group of about 10 people in front of Chocolate Bar.  Thinking "it figures something has to be going on when I am down here with my suburban minded father-in-law", I was hoping he would just ignore it, but he kept asking me what I thought happened.  Well, we finally found a spot to eat lunch in Presto (which was a pretty good sandwich BTW, I had never been there before) and he asked someone there who gave him the rundown as they had seen it out the front window of the store.  Apparently a girl was walking down Euclid and a guy on a bike rode by and snatched her purse.  There were a fair amount of people around, and somehow she knocked him off his bike (I don't know if he wasn't able to get away because of other people or because he never really got the purse off of her) and had him on the ground trying to get her purse back.  He pulled a gun on her and everyone backed away and then he got away.  Obviously things like this happen here and there but I was shocked to see it had just happened about 5 minutes before we got there (11:15 or so) in broad daylight at the corner of E. 4th and Euclid with a fair amount of people around (not massive crowds but far from dead either, the police were interviewing about 10 witnesses and the customer we had talked to said there were plenty of people right there when it happened).  It seems that these guys on bikes are getting more brazen.

This doesn't have anything to do with crime but just a comment on safety forces.  The officers working traffic control were all very polite and even joking with people or saying "thanks for your patience", etc., with one glaring exception.  While walking down W. 3rd near the stadium, one Cleveland police officer was stopping traffic at the driveway which heads down behind the county courthouse.  There is no light there so it's pretty much pedestrians right-of-way, which is why I suppose they need an officer there to stop the constant flow of pedestrians when a car needs to get in or out.  He held up his hand for people to stop, and a couple people at the back didn't see him and followed the crowd in front of him across.  We were the first ones to stop and I really thought it was borderline on whether the people in front of us really even had started crossing or not by the time he held up his hand, but he got ridiculously mad and screamed right in the face "Do you see this hand, it means you need to F---ING STOP!"  It was pretty crazy how he took it there with minimal-to-no-provoking.  I mean, I usually get frustrated with pedestrians that jaywalk and hold up traffic or cross at a Don't Walk signal and hold up left-turners, etc., but these people really didn't do anything wrong or if they did it was a minor and honest mistake.  They didn't give him attitude or anything, and he reacted like they had spit in his face.  I expect public officials to be able to control their temper and attitude a little better than that.

Yesterday when I was downtown before the Browns game looking for a place to eat, we saw a police officer with his lights on out of his car talking to a group of about 10 people in front of Chocolate Bar.  Thinking "it figures something has to be going on when I am down here with my suburban minded father-in-law", I was hoping he would just ignore it, but he kept asking me what I thought happened.  Well, we finally found a spot to eat lunch in Presto (which was a pretty good sandwich BTW, I had never been there before) and he asked someone there who gave him the rundown as they had seen it out the front window of the store.  Apparently a girl was walking down Euclid and a guy on a bike rode by and snatched her purse.  There were a fair amount of people around, and somehow she knocked him off his bike (I don't know if he wasn't able to get away because of other people or because he never really got the purse off of her) and had him on the ground trying to get her purse back.  He pulled a gun on her and everyone backed away and then he got away.  Obviously things like this happen here and there but I was shocked to see it had just happened about 5 minutes before we got there (11:15 or so) in broad daylight at the corner of E. 4th and Euclid with a fair amount of people around (not massive crowds but far from dead either, the police were interviewing about 10 witnesses and the customer we had talked to said there were plenty of people right there when it happened).  It seems that these guys on bikes are getting more brazen.

 

Packing, too.  That's unusual.  Had there been an off duty cop there who caught him he's looking at an armed robbery charge, not purse snatching. 

 

Maybe they need to pull some of the cops out of the Muni Lot before the games.  I'm doubting he would have gotten away had he tried something like this down there.

 

Has your father in law quieted down about it all yet?   :evil:

Yeah, he tends to get fired up and then forget about things quickly.  Plus the Browns win helped.

Yeah, he tends to get fired up and then forget about things quickly.  Plus the Browns win helped.

 

Wins tend to do that.

 

I keep going back to the idea of some punk on a bicycle trying to snatch a purse in the Muni Lot before a Browns game lol.    I suppose one only has to be smart enough to feed oneself without illustrated instructions to know that's a poor idea.  :-D

"Enter Cleveland at your own risk!"  Taking the slogan from another very violent city, Detroit. 

 

What is going on in Cleveland?  A city that has the second fastest declining population in the country, a violent murder rate, and it doesn't look to be slowing down.  2 people were murdered this weekend, and it brought me to thinking about this thread.  How many murders has Cleveland has this year?

 

http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/news/local_news/cleveland_metro/violent-weekend-continues-in-cleveland-with-two-men-killed-overnight

Whats going on?  The hood is what's going on.

 

http://fox8.com/2012/10/19/brutal-attack-on-cleveland-man/

all these latest incidents are on the east side.  Some of the council members and local ministers need to get control of the young people and stop the shootings as it's reaching an epidemic

They arrested Emiliano's mother last night. 20 years old and 3 children, one of them 5 months old and seemingly born while she was in foster care via the county? What a train wreck. That poor, poor little boy.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2012/11/missing_3-year-old.html#incart_m-rpt-2

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio — A 20-year-old mother of three has been arrested as a suspect in the death of her 3-year-old son in Cleveland, police said.

 

Camilia Terry was in the Cuyahoga County Jail on Monday night awaiting charges, police said at a news conference late Monday. The Cuyahoga County Medical Examiner's Office was expected to conduct an autopsy this morning to determine how Emilliano Terry died.

 

 

While my gut tells me she likely played some role in his death, even if it was just neglect and not some malicious act..... I can't help but think what she is going through right now if she didn't.  She spends the night she finds out her 3yr old is dead in jail.

 

FWIW, I think there is something more to this woman being placed in the custody of the county up until three months ago than what the media knows or is reporting.  Mental illness perhaps?

Buckeye-Shaker having a bad week.  Two shootings last night, one fatal. 

he held up his hand, but he got ridiculously mad and screamed right in the face "Do you see this hand, it means you need to F---ING STOP!"  It was pretty crazy how he took it there with minimal-to-no-provoking. 

 

That sounds like a motorcycle cop working traffic control I encountered during the Tall Ships festival in 2001 at East 9th and the Shoreway. I made a left turn (north) on 9th when he told me to turn right, and then he pointed for me to go down North Marginal. After he chased me down, pulled me over and screamed at me for disobeying his order, I realized he wanted me to pull over on East 9th so he could give me a ticket there for disobeying his instructions. The cop and I were yelling at each other for what seemed like five minutes. He made me so mad I still remember his last name 11 years later -- O'Neil.

he held up his hand, but he got ridiculously mad and screamed right in the face "Do you see this hand, it means you need to F---ING STOP!"  It was pretty crazy how he took it there with minimal-to-no-provoking. 

 

That sounds like a motorcycle cop working traffic control I encountered during the Tall Ships festival in 2001 at East 9th and the Shoreway. I made a left turn (north) on 9th when he told me to turn right, and then he pointed for me to go down North Marginal. After he chased me down, pulled me over and screamed at me for disobeying his order, I realized he wanted me to pull over on East 9th so he could give me a ticket there for disobeying his instructions. The cop and I were yelling at each other for what seemed like five minutes. He made me so mad I still remember his last name 11 years later -- O'Neil.

 

Umm.  KJP, enhale and hold for 10 seconds.  Now slowly release it to love.  LOL

BTW, it sounds like there's some gang stuff going on throughout the East Side, including initiations or earnings that involve robberies, etc.

 

Chicago is a great city, but what has been going on throughout that city's South Side for the past several years has been almost genocidal. I hope this crap doesn't become a full blown, Chicago-style bloodbath on Cleveland's East Side.

^ At least there is some minimal help coming with the 25 new officers freeing up existing officers to go after the gangs this spring...... right when it will start getting bad again.

 

 

 

 

BTW, it sounds like there's some gang stuff going on throughout the East Side, including initiations or earnings that involve robberies, etc.

 

Chicago is a great city, but what has been going on throughout that city's South Side for the past several years has been almost genocidal. I hope this crap doesn't become a full blown, Chicago-style bloodbath on Cleveland's East Side.

 

Chicago issues are not relegated to just the South Side.  I don't think we'll see that type of crime on the Eastside.  Rather, I'm HOPING we don't see that.

Buckeye-Shaker having a bad week.  Two shootings last night, one fatal. 

I've been away, what happened?

Wasnt there a big drug bust earlier this year that is causing the large increase in crime this year?

Wasnt there a big drug bust earlier this year that is causing the large increase in crime this year?

 

Yeah, the FBI took down a coke ring on the East Side removing 70 people out of circulation locally. 

 

Part of what we are seeing now is competition to fill that void.

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2012/11/2_men_shot_after_chase_ending.html#incart_river_default#incart_m-rpt-2

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2012/11/no_one_injured_during_police_c.html

 

"Two suspects reportedly are dead after leading police on a high-speed chase beginning in Cleveland and ending with gunfire in East Cleveland, according to reports."

 

Crazy. Opened fire right outside the Justice Center? Suicide by cop? I was right there a few hours before this. Ugh.

Wow,

 

Imagine being a cop, if that doesnt get your heart racing what does?.  Thats a tough job.  Being a Cleveland resident, all i see is them driving around and when something happens in our neighborhood and its slow response time, i am upset.  But this is a stern reminder of what these cats go through on a day to day basis.

Well, a co-worker had his Honda Accord stolen from a lot just east of Galleria.  We first thought it might've been towed for some violation. Nope...gone. He's from Detroit. That will team him to move to the CLE!

^this morning? thats right around the corner, hopefully there isnt a wave of car burglaries.

^^ Hondas are super easy to steal.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/parma/index.ssf/2012/11/parma_police_investigate_rash.html

^^ It actually happened last week. Was holding out hope it was towed by accident.

 

^ Right. I wasn't paying attention one night (too cold) and I hurriedly opened the car door and started my Civic...with my wife's Saturn key!

^^ It actually happened last week. Was holding out hope it was towed by accident.

 

^ Right. I wasn't paying attention one night (too cold) and I hurriedly opened the car door and started my Civic...with my wife's Saturn key!

Shut the front door.

^^ It actually happened last week. Was holding out hope it was towed by accident.

 

^ Right. I wasn't paying attention one night (too cold) and I hurriedly opened the car door and started my Civic...with my wife's Saturn key!

Shut the front door.

 

Ha!

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2012/11/2_men_shot_after_chase_ending.html#incart_river_default#incart_m-rpt-2

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2012/11/no_one_injured_during_police_c.html

 

"Two suspects reportedly are dead after leading police on a high-speed chase beginning in Cleveland and ending with gunfire in East Cleveland, according to reports."

 

Crazy. Opened fire right outside the Justice Center? Suicide by cop? I was right there a few hours before this. Ugh.

 

Apparently when investigators searched the vehicle, they found no gun and no bullet casings.  I'll be curious to see where this story goes...

Twitter was blowing up with reports of where that car chase was going. Even Cleveland traffic reports (normally rush hour reports) and Councilman Cimperman were chiming in.

 

City officials are looking into what happened......

 

Cleveland, East Cleveland officials seek answers after police chase ends with 13 officers firing 137 shots, 2 people dead

 

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2012/11/cleveland_east_cleveland_offic.html#incart_river#incart_2box

Hardiman sounds like a friggin' moron.  I'm sick as hell of hearing about the "rights" of criminals running from the police and endangering everyone's lives.  They shouldn't be investigating the perps civil rights, they should be investigating ways to improve police marksmanship.

Hardiman sounds like a friggin' moron.  I'm sick as hell of hearing about the "rights" of criminals running from the police and endangering everyone's lives.  They shouldn't be investigating the perps civil rights, they should be investigating ways to improve police marksmanship.

 

I can see both sides here.  These police chases pose a danger to everyone and it may be instructive to take a step back and ask ourselves: What crimes did these people commit and might there have been a better way to apprehend them?  When you have dozens of cars flying through neighborhoods at high speeds and the cops unloading 137 rounds, it damn well better be worth it, because that's a huge risk to the public at-large.  I realize that the criminals are to blame here, but perhaps it would have been better to let them run to wherever it is they were going to run to and then apprehend them there.  I also understand that such a thing may be easier said than done, but it's something to consider.  Some other localities have indeed stopped engaging in police chases based on weighing the costs versus the benefits.

^ sounds good until they commit more crimes out of desparation, likely more dangerous than the ones they committed to get into the situation to begin with.  If you've got them, don't let them go.

Does anyone know the route of that chase?  WHere on the west side did it go.

 

Also, i found it weird that there was no gun in the car, but i imagine it would be easy to ditch at anytime along that chase out the window.

^ sounds good until they commit more crimes out of desparation, likely more dangerous than the ones they committed to get into the situation to begin with.  If you've got them, don't let them go.

 

Like I said, I can see both sides of the discussion, but I'm not sure the "chase 'em down and engage 'em in a shootout method" is always automatically the clear way of dealing with a situation.

This is addition by subtraction. 

 

"Russell, who would have turned 44 next Sunday, had a history of theft offenses, violent crime and, on two previous occasions, fleeing police – all since 1997.

 

He was found guilty of domestic violence in Summit County, had three convictions for receiving stolen property, one in Summit County and two in Cuyahoga. Russell also had four robbery convictions: Ohio law recognizes robbery as any theft offense involving force or threat of force.

 

One of the stolen-property offenses also carried a felony failure-to-comply charge, in Cuyahoga County in 2008. He also was found guilty of misdemeanor failure to comply in Mentor Municipal Court earlier this year. "

 

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2012/12/fleeing_driver_shot_by_police.html#incart_river_default

^ How the hell can one have FOUR robbery convictions and not be in prison?

 

his father said he was a good son, worked hard, went to church, would never have anything to do with a gun or would hurt anyone

^ How the hell can one have FOUR robbery convictions and not be in prison?

 

 

No room, they gave his cell to a guy caught carrying a dime bag.

his father said he was a good son, worked hard, went to church, would never have anything to do with a gun or would hurt anyone

 

Maybe he was referring to the son he wanted instead?

Did they ever find the gun?

^ How the hell can one have FOUR robbery convictions and not be in prison?

 

 

No room, they gave his cell to a guy caught carrying a dime bag.

 

Right you are sir!

-Ed McMahon

Did they ever find the gun?

no, nor the bullet which was shot at the cop.

^Was the bullet shot "at" a cop or did the cops who were outside the justice center just hear a gunshot and thought it came from the guy's Malibu?

It's unclear about the origin of the bullet.  This cle.com posters take on the situation points out one possibility of the role of the shot in the story.

 

WHITEYFORD

 

My version is that Russel and the crackhead may have been driving downtown for God knows what reason and Russell was spotted by an officer who recognized him from a prior bust(s). Russell flees, knowing that police might be getting ready to turn their red and blues he hits the gas and hauls azz. The police call in a shot being "heard" possibly from Russell's car and the chase begins. The police know what their rules are regarding car chases and this is the only way they could have pursued Russell.

Well, this is about to get really interesting:

 

Family members of chase suspect killed by Cleveland police call for federal investigation

 

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2012/12/family_members_of_cleveland_po.html#incart_river_default#incart_maj-story-2

 

 

The sister says "everyone has a past" -- what sort of past? Most people do not have an illicit past. If that's what she and others choose to believe to rationalize the actions of your brother and others, then do not be surprised if more police chases end in death (shootings, crashes, etc). And the public's level of tolerance for the actions of people "with a past" will continue to fall. Conversely, public support for the police and for harsher penalties against people "with a past" will grow. If you can't take responsibility for yourself and the people you love, then people who don't love you will take responsibility. And they will be far less forgiving. Rant-off.......

I think a federal investigation is warranted in this case.  We need to better understand what led to the circumstances of the chase, the continuation of the chase, and the deadly shooting.  While it sounds to me like the cops may have been justified in using deadly force against the driver of a vehicle that was attempting to ram them I'm not so sure about the origination and continuation of the chase.  There appears to be no evidence that any shot was ever fired or that the people in the vehicle even had a weapon.  If that's the case then what led to the chase in the first place and why was it continued even after the order was given to terminate the pursuit?

 

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2012/12/cleveland_police_ordered_to_te.html

 

I'm mostly interested in understanding if the officers that initiated the pursuit understood the rules of pursuits in the city and claimed "shots fired" in order to continue the chase.  At the very least a federal investigation will lead to lessons learned and potentially improved pursuit guidelines.

The more details that come out, the worse this may look for the Police.  While full disclosure is necessary and should be forthcoming, I sure hope this doesn't become some sort of national media focus attracting Al Sharpton & the likes

^^I think you've framed the issues correctly, Hoot.  There are several of them.  The shooting itself may not be the biggest one.  The police firing their service revolver is always a split second decision.  No matter what may have led them to that point, including any misinformation given, at least most of those cops were of the mindset that they were in a high-speed chase of suspect armed with deadly force weapons and willing to use them.  When the cops had them boxed in, the car was turned into a deadly weapon and the cops were forced to make a split second decision which you simply can't judge with 20/20 hindsight.

 

But, that said, I must admit that there appears to be a lot of unanswered questions as to how it got that far.  I certainly hope that the origins/cause of the chase turn out to be as initially reported by the police.

A good rule of thumb for anybody reading this: Don't run from the cops. And, this part is especially important, trying to escape using your car as a battering ram will not end well.

 

Nobody should be treated to unreasonable searches. People that acquiesce because they have nothing to hide are just begging to get their rights trampled on. This isn't Russia and we aren't under military rule, but there is a right and wrong way to protest. If you did nothing wrong, fleeing by car is not the right way.

 

Seems to me a lot of mistakes were made in this ordeal. A shame anybody had to lose their life.

Whiteyford's one of the biggest idiots on Cle.com.  He's basically a troll that would spend more time in time out here than my stepdaughter's cousin does when he's had too much candy.

 

Here's my take, with the mapleheightsword starred out, off my Facebook:

 

This whole police chase shooting thing is getting annoying.

 

Here's the deal. If someone who's been chased and generally acting crazy for five miles is aiming their car at you and your colleagues in the nighttime, and you have a gun: I don't care if you are Mahatma F****** Gandhi, you are going to use the damn thing to protect you and yours. Period.

 

End of story.

 

Any politicians who try to throw any of these cops under the proverbial bus need to be wearing some NFI tread marks of their own.